Boss encounter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Boss encounter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MrFahrenheit
07-20-04, 04:18 PM So I'm reaching the end of my campaign (which I actually liked quite much and am thinking about turning it into a novel...who knows? :) ) and the party of six (and this is a VERY ODD party indeed) is coming up onto the last BBEG, in this case, the Formian queen (EL 17) The party is as follows (the game began at CL 8)

-Mercane Wiz 10 (CL 17)
-Mercane Brd 10 (CL 17)
*note: only one mercane started off as an NPC with the party, the reason for the game beginning at CL 8.
-Half-Ogre Mnk 16 (CL 17)
-Half-elf Drd 6, Dracolyte (dragon=silver, god=Tamara) 5, Apostle of Peace 6
-Dwarf Clr (of Moradin) 8, Ftr 5, Dwarven Defender 4
-Human Pal 17

I worked to the bone with every last possible side quest to get the entire party to 17, so they can face the formian queen with even odds, only it is now that I realize how the odds are tipped in their favor, as the formian queen has essentially no melee attacks, so once the dwarf, human, and half-ogre close in, it's all over.

I guess I want to add some bodyguards, but I'm not sure how much is TOO much, you know? I certainly wouldn't want anything that is also EL 17 (16 would be fine though, I suppose. The Queen is supposed to be the ultimate challenge, not her body guards).

Any ideas?
MetalGemini
07-20-04, 07:19 PM Throw a bunch of warriors and a taskmaster or two serve as cannon fodder for the queen. They are obviously not going to leave the queen alone, so I'd expect maybe 6-8 warriors and a taskmaster would be a good buffer. Each player should be able to take out one or two warriors per round (depending on how strong they are and how well equipped). If they get through them faster than you expected, have a backup squad come in before the party can get into melee range of the queen. This will allow her time to use spells, etc.

I like to think that final encounters like this should push the players to their limits. If the warriors come out of it with 4 hp and the spellcasters have 2 spells left, it was a good fight. Its the end of a great adventure, make it the climax.

Also, use good tactics for the reinforcements. Have them come from behind, above, below, wherever. Keep them on their toes.
primemover003
07-20-04, 09:05 PM Even if you throw a mix of guardians that equal EL 17 it would still only make the entire encounter EL 19... well in the scope of 6 ECL 17 characters (because their effective party level is 19th).

The queen is a 17th level Sor... summons are a good idea, as are wall spells! You really need some meat shields in front of her. She can dominate a good number of creatures to serve her...

Maybe a dragon?
kliate
07-20-04, 10:40 PM Or Drizz't :)

Give her an Ice Devil bodyguard for kicks. It's Wall of Ice/Cone of Cold at will should be able to soften up the party fairly well, assuming they're already busy focusing on the formian threat.

Myrmarchs are essential, of course.
MrFahrenheit
07-21-04, 07:52 PM Excellent thanks for all the advice!
Kaya Kenobi
07-21-04, 08:32 PM Give the queen the ability to gate in a balor or two... :D Always fun.
ballekalle
07-22-04, 07:15 AM What Caster Level has the queen? If she got lvl 9 spells, Shapechange is always fun abuse.:smirk:
Ertai Planeswalker
07-22-04, 05:29 PM Besides that, she could have 4 Myrmarches as Royal Guards, or a fe advanced taksmasters mentally controlling big melee monsters.

Party galore.
krichaiushii
07-23-04, 11:41 AM IIRC the Fiend Folio has a few more Formian types that you might want to look at.

Also, is it possible that an advanced grey render has adopted the queen as its charge?
Kilsek of Sheverash
07-23-04, 11:53 AM Magic items and spells that can summon or gate in "bodyguards" are a good route. Since you're looking for the Queen to be the real challenge, make sure she can summon lots of them, but of significantly lowere level than her (-4 CR or more).

Plus remember the primary roles of a bodyguard are to protect and TAKE a lot of punishment. So, you don't necessarily need to put in bodyguards that pose a significant offensive threat at all - just tough, protective "nuisance" type bodyguards will do.

That is, maybe they cast protective spells or administer defensive potions or other buffs on the queen - spell immunity, protection from elements, shield other, displacement, etc. Maybe they physically surround her, so the PC's cant get in melee attacks without reach.

A handful of feats or spells gives them all the offense they'll need to pose enough of an offensive threat so that they're not ignored.

Sounds like a great finish! Don't be afraid to bump up the CR of the final encounter by one or two - the "Boss Encounter" by definition is a tougher challenge, and should probably be in the 1-4 CR higher category.

Enjoy your campaign finale! :)
MrFahrenheit
07-23-04, 03:14 PM Well one thing I'm contemplating now is giving the queen two personal "pets" which will come in from behind the party. These pets are indeed 4 CR's lower than the queen - one 12 headed cryo hydra and one 12 headed pyro hydra.

The fact that they'll drop down behind the magic users will provide extra hell for the party, who also have to deal with the two beholders and ice devil right in front of the queen.

I'm also considering adding in several myrmarchs, but would that be too much? (I have maybe a week and a half left before the battle, as two players are on vacation right now).
trapspringer
07-23-04, 11:31 PM Remember, a level 17 character versus a cr 17 has a 50/50 chance of survival. So if you tossed 'em, like, 6 of these things, they could still have a 50/50 chance.
Zolgar
07-24-04, 12:15 AM There's an Apostle of Peace in there. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't this be opposing the Apostle of Peace's idea. really want to make it a chalenge on them, make it a diplomatic encounter ;)
Phrennzy
07-24-04, 12:55 PM I'd ditch the pyrohydra and put the ice devil a rider on the cryohydra with an ice lance.

Replace one beholder with an advanced gray render with a few buff spells on him. (hit point sponge) Or toss in an Iron Golem built by the queen. Or give her a shield guardian or rune guardian.

Just make sure that there is a logical reason for the creatures that attack from the rear to be able to sneak up. The Ice Devil can teleport in, but what about the Cryohydra? And those things are NOT stealthy.

If you want to be a :censored: throw in a half a dozen 7th level sorcerors or clerics who use buff spells on the queen and her servants, as well as area effect spells on the enemy. A 7th level cleric who keeps healing that render must die. But he's hard to find with the improved invisibility from the 7th level sorceror.

They don't have to be 17 CR creatures to join the fray.

Plus, this wastes Party resources killing the small fry. Just keep em spaced out enough so they don't all die to a fireball or chain lightning.
MrFahrenheit
07-25-04, 08:15 PM Well the reason I was thinking one pyro + one cryo was for alignment reasons. I view LN (which the formians are) as tending to be ****-retentive, so everything would need to balance out. But I do see what you mean though - it'd be annoying enough having to kill one hydra (though not tough as the characters are all 4 levels higher), let alone two, but I do want to be a :censored: Though I will take your advice on several issues.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MrFahrenheit 07-20-04, 04:18 PM	So I'm reaching the end of my campaign (which I actually liked quite much and am thinking about turning it into a novel...who knows? :) ) and the party of six (and this is a VERY ODD party indeed) is coming up onto the last BBEG, in this case, the Formian queen (EL 17) The party is as follows (the game began at CL 8) -Mercane Wiz 10 (CL 17) -Mercane Brd 10 (CL 17) *note: only one mercane started off as an NPC with the party, the reason for the game beginning at CL 8. -Half-Ogre Mnk 16 (CL 17) -Half-elf Drd 6, Dracolyte (dragon=silver, god=Tamara) 5, Apostle of Peace 6 -Dwarf Clr (of Moradin) 8, Ftr 5, Dwarven Defender 4 -Human Pal 17 I worked to the bone with every last possible side quest to get the entire party to 17, so they can face the formian queen with even odds, only it is now that I realize how the odds are tipped in their favor, as the formian queen has essentially no melee attacks, so once the dwarf, human, and half-ogre close in, it's all over. I guess I want to add some bodyguards, but I'm not sure how much is TOO much, you know? I certainly wouldn't want anything that is also EL 17 (16 would be fine though, I suppose. The Queen is supposed to be the ultimate challenge, not her body guards). Any ideas?
MetalGemini 07-20-04, 07:19 PM	Throw a bunch of warriors and a taskmaster or two serve as cannon fodder for the queen. They are obviously not going to leave the queen alone, so I'd expect maybe 6-8 warriors and a taskmaster would be a good buffer. Each player should be able to take out one or two warriors per round (depending on how strong they are and how well equipped). If they get through them faster than you expected, have a backup squad come in before the party can get into melee range of the queen. This will allow her time to use spells, etc. I like to think that final encounters like this should push the players to their limits. If the warriors come out of it with 4 hp and the spellcasters have 2 spells left, it was a good fight. Its the end of a great adventure, make it the climax. Also, use good tactics for the reinforcements. Have them come from behind, above, below, wherever. Keep them on their toes.
primemover003 07-20-04, 09:05 PM	Even if you throw a mix of guardians that equal EL 17 it would still only make the entire encounter EL 19... well in the scope of 6 ECL 17 characters (because their effective party level is 19th). The queen is a 17th level Sor... summons are a good idea, as are wall spells! You really need some meat shields in front of her. She can dominate a good number of creatures to serve her... Maybe a dragon?
kliate 07-20-04, 10:40 PM	Or Drizz't :) Give her an Ice Devil bodyguard for kicks. It's Wall of Ice/Cone of Cold at will should be able to soften up the party fairly well, assuming they're already busy focusing on the formian threat. Myrmarchs are essential, of course.
MrFahrenheit 07-21-04, 07:52 PM	Excellent thanks for all the advice!
Kaya Kenobi 07-21-04, 08:32 PM	Give the queen the ability to gate in a balor or two... :D Always fun.
ballekalle 07-22-04, 07:15 AM	What Caster Level has the queen? If she got lvl 9 spells, Shapechange is always fun abuse.:smirk:
Ertai Planeswalker 07-22-04, 05:29 PM	Besides that, she could have 4 Myrmarches as Royal Guards, or a fe advanced taksmasters mentally controlling big melee monsters. Party galore.
krichaiushii 07-23-04, 11:41 AM	IIRC the Fiend Folio has a few more Formian types that you might want to look at. Also, is it possible that an advanced grey render has adopted the queen as its charge?
Kilsek of Sheverash 07-23-04, 11:53 AM	Magic items and spells that can summon or gate in "bodyguards" are a good route. Since you're looking for the Queen to be the real challenge, make sure she can summon lots of them, but of significantly lowere level than her (-4 CR or more). Plus remember the primary roles of a bodyguard are to protect and TAKE a lot of punishment. So, you don't necessarily need to put in bodyguards that pose a significant offensive threat at all - just tough, protective "nuisance" type bodyguards will do. That is, maybe they cast protective spells or administer defensive potions or other buffs on the queen - spell immunity, protection from elements, shield other, displacement, etc. Maybe they physically surround her, so the PC's cant get in melee attacks without reach. A handful of feats or spells gives them all the offense they'll need to pose enough of an offensive threat so that they're not ignored. Sounds like a great finish! Don't be afraid to bump up the CR of the final encounter by one or two - the "Boss Encounter" by definition is a tougher challenge, and should probably be in the 1-4 CR higher category. Enjoy your campaign finale! :)
MrFahrenheit 07-23-04, 03:14 PM	Well one thing I'm contemplating now is giving the queen two personal "pets" which will come in from behind the party. These pets are indeed 4 CR's lower than the queen - one 12 headed cryo hydra and one 12 headed pyro hydra. The fact that they'll drop down behind the magic users will provide extra hell for the party, who also have to deal with the two beholders and ice devil right in front of the queen. I'm also considering adding in several myrmarchs, but would that be too much? (I have maybe a week and a half left before the battle, as two players are on vacation right now).
trapspringer 07-23-04, 11:31 PM	Remember, a level 17 character versus a cr 17 has a 50/50 chance of survival. So if you tossed 'em, like, 6 of these things, they could still have a 50/50 chance.
Zolgar 07-24-04, 12:15 AM	There's an Apostle of Peace in there. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't this be opposing the Apostle of Peace's idea. really want to make it a chalenge on them, make it a diplomatic encounter ;)
Phrennzy 07-24-04, 12:55 PM	I'd ditch the pyrohydra and put the ice devil a rider on the cryohydra with an ice lance. Replace one beholder with an advanced gray render with a few buff spells on him. (hit point sponge) Or toss in an Iron Golem built by the queen. Or give her a shield guardian or rune guardian. Just make sure that there is a logical reason for the creatures that attack from the rear to be able to sneak up. The Ice Devil can teleport in, but what about the Cryohydra? And those things are NOT stealthy. If you want to be a :censored: throw in a half a dozen 7th level sorcerors or clerics who use buff spells on the queen and her servants, as well as area effect spells on the enemy. A 7th level cleric who keeps healing that render must die. But he's hard to find with the improved invisibility from the 7th level sorceror. They don't have to be 17 CR creatures to join the fray. Plus, this wastes Party resources killing the small fry. Just keep em spaced out enough so they don't all die to a fireball or chain lightning.
MrFahrenheit 07-25-04, 08:15 PM	Well the reason I was thinking one pyro + one cryo was for alignment reasons. I view LN (which the formians are) as tending to be ****-retentive, so everything would need to balance out. But I do see what you mean though - it'd be annoying enough having to kill one hydra (though not tough as the characters are all 4 levels higher), let alone two, but I do want to be a :censored: Though I will take your advice on several issues.