Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lxarth 01-22-05, 05:43 PM	I was reading through an old Dungeon magazine and the adventure had some information on bounties. Specifically wolfs and goblinoids. The adventure takes place in a northern setting with a harse winter so wolves are attacking livestock. They said that the current rate for a wolf head is 5 gold (twice as much as normal). And said that if you skin the wolves their furs are worth 15 gold. They also said that the bounty on goblinoids is also doubled. So it is currently at 10 for smaller goblins (like orcs and goblins) and 15 for gnolls and such. I thought that was an awful lot of money for a single creature. A farmer could trap a wolf and not work anymore because he is set financially. What do you all think a regular bounty should be for wolves and goblinoids?
Vharuck 01-22-05, 05:52 PM	2.5 gold isn't enough to be set for life, and though that still does seem high, you have to figure in the costs of such a hunting trip. Few people could kill a wolf alone and without any weapons (which cost a fair amount of gold themselves).
Ragner 01-22-05, 05:53 PM	it depends on several factors, if we are talking worgs or winter-wolves then they should be worth more than a regular wolve. also it is determined by th effect they are having on the country, if it is a small farminiig area, and these wolves are detoruing the countrys econimy, then they will be worth more, while a large kingdom would probally offer only a few silver pices. i think it also depends on how fast they need the anamals to go away, the higher the bounty, the faster the wolves will go away. and finnaly, it also depends on the number of wolves. they could offer more for less wolves, because they are less of a presence, and the country would only have to dish out a few gold. but you are right, 20 gold for one wolf, that would mess alot of things up, mabie that amount in silver pices for the wolves would be a better system, and mabie lower the worth of the pelt (unless they are a trade commodity, then it should be worth at least a few gold)
11d7 01-22-05, 05:55 PM	You see thats the problim with the game econimy system being balenced for the PCs, it just doesnt work. I myself could easily take down 3 or 4 wolves with maybe 2 or 3 other untrained peoples help and could make lots of money. Goblinoids would be more difficult so I would likly set up traps for them and have my team ambush them with crossbows (becuase I've fired a crossbow, no training required to hit anything unless its extremely small or very far away and that can be covered in less than 5 minutes) and me and my teams could split a nice 40 GP from the wolves and 30 GP from goblinoids reward and not work for a while for a few days of huntering and trapping. PS: Even without all of us having crossbows we could use longspears and quarter staffs, low level goblins arn't very hard to kill.
Lxarth 01-22-05, 06:04 PM	2.5 gold isn't enough to be set for life Perhaps not. But based on the Varient rule of Upkeep in the DMG (3.0 pg 142) the Common laborer earns about 3 GP a month. So I thought that if a famer kills a wolf and skins it he can earn 20 Gold. I just think that an awfull lot. Combine that with the fact that wolves hunt together and you can make alot of money real fast. This adventure is based in a kindom that is at war but is large and wealthy. The adventure text states:Wolves have been driven down from the mountains by the harsh cold and are preying on the local flocks, and the Thane has offered a generous bounty for every wolf killed. Annother thing is that this is a 2nd Ed adventure...
11d7 01-22-05, 06:13 PM	Gold is even more valuable in 2nd ed. 17 silver to get to one gold and like 20 odd copper to get to a silver IIRC!
Lxarth 01-22-05, 06:22 PM	Gold is even more valuable in 2nd ed. 17 silver to get to one gold and like 20 odd copper to get to a silver IIRC! Well...it was pretty much the same as 3.0 except that gold was on a 5:1 ratio of Gold to Platinum. And there was Electrum.
The Shaman 01-22-05, 06:36 PM	The adventure takes place in a northern setting with a harse winter so wolves are attacking livestock. They said that the current rate for a wolf head is 5 gold (twice as much as normal). And said that if you skin the wolves their furs are worth 15 gold. It's the fantasy version of Burned Bush Wells. First person to correctly identify the reference wins a cookie.
shaga 01-22-05, 08:16 PM	Well on DMG page 51 (3.5v) table 3-3 treasure values per encounter, says that an encounter level 1 should have 300gp on average. On the other hand, in the treasure entry on wolfs, it says treasure none. So it kind of makes sense that the pcs can make at list 20gp from the wolfs. As for the farmer killing wolfs…..well most farmers are commoner level 1, that puts then on 2 to 3 hp. I wouldn’t go even outside my home if I had only 3hp (and knew it) plus the have no attack bonus and most likely 12`s in all their abilities so even if they had the proper skills to make traps they would never go in the forest alone. Adventuring is a very dangerous and very profitable job
MinusInnocence 01-23-05, 01:17 AM	Actually, the average Commoner probably has an 11 or 10 in every stat, by definition, as an average individual. If NPC classes award full HP for the first HD, the average Commoner has 4HP at most; if not, they have an average of 2. So, yes, a team of four Commoners who leave their home to go and kill a wolf or multiple wolves in the woods (in the winter, without any practical experience in killing creatures of any sort) will rapidly turn into a plothook about four missing Commoners. I bet whole villages in the setting that module describes have been wiped out by the faulty logic of, "Oh, they're just wolves, we can take them." Having said all of that, most people who (successfully) hunt wolves do not do so with spears, clubs, crossbows or the like. Not your everyday run-of-the-mill peasant: they will be much more inclined, and well-advised, to dig a pit of some sort of find another way to trap the creatures. Then again, any degree of success in this endeavor will probably be assured by people who actually have real experience in making traps: Craft (Traps) is a class skill for Commoners but unless this whole ordeal regarding the wolves in the winter is a common occurence, how many are likely to have knowledge of that? Not many, I suspect. So, most people going out and killing wolves are either adventurers, Experts or NPC Rangers. It should also be noted that the reason the price is so high may have something to do with the fact the local populace is largely helpless. I would imagine what happened was A) Commoners encounter wolves, B) Wolves disrupt goings-on in outlying rural areas, C) Commoners are woefully inadequate in dealing with wolves, D) The call for adventurers is made, E) Bounty is raised because no one seems interested. As for Goblins... well, that's quite another story. The individual who boasted about his admittedly untrained companions being able to kill one or two of them is making claims about personally being able to slay fantasy creatures in a pseudo-medieval Western European setting. Even if this were rational to say out loud, "low-level Goblins" still have levels, period. And untrained people, or the closest thing there is in D&D (a 1st level Commoner), do not. I suspect the aforementioned team of four 1st level Commoners who hunted the wolf earlier would die even more swiftly upon encountering even a single 1st level Goblin Warrior. So, having established that human peasants are pathetic and reinforcing the need for adventurers (another good reason the in-game economy is based on them: the world would come apart at the seams without their presence), I think the prices are pretty standard. Most people can't produce a viable wolf pelt anyway; again, unless they had some sort of training in that area, in which case they probably wouldn't be Commoners and would be much more viable candidates as Experts. Under the current theme, a couple of the hardier and more capable woodsmen in the average thorp or hamlet could band together and, with hopefully minimal losses, rake in some nice cash. 15 gold for a wolf pelt, according to the table cited by Lxarth, would be equivalent to five month's pay for a Commoner - nearly half annual wages. Of course, only a moron would quit working after bagging a wolf or three, and would instead stash the money so their kids could one day become adventurers and kill wolves fulltime. :)
FriendoftheDork 01-23-05, 04:24 AM	You got good points minusinnocence. But it's not commonmers that are going to be hunting wolves and goblins. Mercanaries would have a far better chance, armed with leather armor, longspears slings (or shortbows if they're wealthy) and clubs. The average 1st lvl warrior merc has a str of 13, 5 hp (+3 for toughness very likely) and a band of 5-10 such people could manage quite well. But that depends on how large the goblin bands are. If 20-30 goblins stick together, perhaps even riding tamed wolves, they're going to whoop the mercs arses. And a party of 1st level PCs for that matter! 5 gp per wolf in such dangerous areas is not that far fetched. Skinning it requires skill or the hide would be ruined, or having to transport it through the wilds to someone who can. And all the while risking to be ambushed by goblins in their own turf.. nope, I wouldn't do it If I wasn't some sort of hero! Hunting dangerous animals required large hunting bands (often led by nobles) in the middle ages, at least until muskets became common. A group of people with crossbows could do it, but remember how expensive a crossbow is, and not that efective at close ranges in woods against wolves with what... 50' speed?
Gladi 01-23-05, 05:34 AM	Bright day MinusInnocence has very good points about game mechanics, which unfortunately shows inadequencies of them. Okay, what do wolves do? Do they run into city ravaging fair maidens and pillaging coffers of konshels? Nope, at most they attack small or solitary livestock (herds of sheep, goats, pigs and single horses and oxen), and lonely travelers. Wolves as all wild animals are afraid of men. So if they are attacking us it points ta certain unbalance in their enviroment, harsh winter being most common occurance. The longest time wolves would be problem would be if they overbred- a situation that too would solve itself if given time and is sped by humans. And commoners should have craft(traps). Sure they do not trap wolves in them, but martens and weasels that prey on them all-year round. And commones who have sheep and other livestock have dogs, I am not going about qualities of dogs and wulves, but wolf that is attacking human settlement is malnourished or/and disease ridden. And the skinning part, my grandfather knows how to skin a rabbit or pig and he did not have to go to uni!!! (sorry, but you underestimate farmers too much) And the goblin issue, my good friend is vice-champion of Czech Republic in sabre?-fencing. And trust me he wold not go aganist band of angry farmers armed with sczthes and flails.
The Shaman 01-23-05, 10:48 AM	They said that the current rate for a wolf head is 5 gold (twice as much as normal). And said that if you skin the wolves their furs are worth 15 gold. They also said that the bounty on goblinoids is also doubled. So it is currently at 10 for smaller goblins (like orcs and goblins) and 15 for gnolls and such. It seems a bit high to me as well, but it also depends on who's paying it - is it the villagers? the local lord? the king's constable? a temple? The wealth limit for villages and towns should be considered. Also, there's economics to consider - a bunch of wolf pelts appearing all at once will depress the price in time. I would call it 2gp for the wolf's head bounty, but only 15sp for the pelt. Maybe 5gp per goblin, and only if paid by someone in the nobility or aristocracy. No one figured out Burned Bush Wells yet? Big yummy cookie for you... ;)
xann 01-23-05, 12:17 PM	I suppose it depends on how realisitic you want it to "feel" personally there are many monsters i eliminate any real treasure from (unless you cut it open an search the entrails) if an average labourer makes 3gp a month then i suppose putting your life on the line has got to be about the same amount plus your "trompin" around the forest lookin' for a dumb wolf when (In faerun you are most certanly not the top of the food chain)so if you killed 3 wolves in a month 9gp saying it takes aprox. 4 days to track, kill a wolf an return it. Could provide a nice tidy living spread the cash 'round and earn yourself the nickname "WOlfsLayer"
Lxarth 01-23-05, 01:25 PM	I dont think skining a wolf would take much work at all...I would think someone could take a 10 and do it right without ruining the pelt. it also depends on who's paying it - is it the villagers? In the case of the written adventure I think its the town that is paying the bounties. In the case of my game it is the Lord of the city. Im still not sure what to chage the current bounty. MinusInnocence had some very good points. So should I just leave the bounty the way it is? My game isnt as harsh as this adventure states, I am just interested in useing the bounty idea from it. So is 25 silver for a wolf a good deal (the adventure has doubled it to 50 sp because of more wolf attacks. And if I did put a bounty on goblins is 5 GP and 7.5 GP a good deal too, or should i raise it? Lower it? I would think that if a farmer did kill a wolf he wouldnt sell the pelt, he would use it (and the wolf meat) for himself. The Arms and Equipment shows that the fur cloak can fetch 20+ GP. In my mind it would take a couple wolves to make a cloak...if not someone correct me. But it would seem like you would loose money if you bought wolf fur and then made a cloak.