Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JamesDruidDM 09-02-06, 03:16 PM	I was wondering, do any of you, my fellow DMs take bribes? I dont mean like game breaking items of teh uber nasty but like, a +1 frost sword for say buying food for the entire group, or going to pick someone up thats out of the way to get everyone together for game? for example - one of my players was stuck at home with no way to get here, and another player said to me "I'll go get him, but I want a sword upgrade" didnt specify or anything just asked for an upgrade, so when he got back his character sheet had a +1 frost Falcion instead of a masterwork one? I was just wondering if anyne else had taken a bribe?... ;)
Sergikins 09-02-06, 03:23 PM	i never have given bribes, nor have i recieved one, and I'm against outright bribes. the way i do "bribes" is if a player roleplays really well, i drop him treasure in his favor in addtion to adHoc. but these are almost IG bribes to roleplay well.... not OOG bribes
Drodain 09-02-06, 03:26 PM	Not normally, I only have once, when it was late and both me and my friend were to tired to play out the encounter. Plus I didn't want to have to wait for him to make a new character. So I took the $2.50 and poofed a CR-1 lol. Ya he was pretty week, he most likely would have died badly.
Atirakis 09-02-06, 06:37 PM	I dont like cream and I dont judge 10 xp for anyone who can tell me what movie that quote is from
amethal 09-02-06, 06:44 PM	Not yet. None of my friends have ever offered enough for me to consider disadvantaging the other four friends in the group.
Horatio Hornblower 09-02-06, 08:39 PM	No, I don't give in game rewards for out of game services. That would be unfair to the other players. Using your example, if I had to bribe a player to go pick up another player I might offer to pay for his or her share of the pizza. An out of game reward for an out of game service.
Atirakis 09-02-06, 08:47 PM	Exactly. You go pick them up and I will make sure you get gas money and you dont need to chip in on the pizza. No IG rewards for OOG actions.
Momordi 09-02-06, 09:43 PM	I was wondering, do any of you, my fellow DMs take bribes? I dont mean like game breaking items of teh uber nasty but like, a +1 frost sword for say buying food for the entire group, or going to pick someone up thats out of the way to get everyone together for game? for example - one of my players was stuck at home with no way to get here, and another player said to me "I'll go get him, but I want a sword upgrade" didnt specify or anything just asked for an upgrade, so when he got back his character sheet had a +1 frost Falcion instead of a masterwork one? I was just wondering if anyne else had taken a bribe?... ;) I take bribes all the time. It is the reward a DM gets for all his hard work. A free burito here, a DVD there, its all good.
Arivia 09-02-06, 09:47 PM	I take bribes all the time. It is the reward a DM gets for all his hard work. A free burito here, a DVD there, its all good. Bribes to the GM are pretty institutionalized in gaming. Paranoia, for example, contains lots of notes urging the GM to take bribes in exchange for the game rules unit of perversity points. Nobilis requires that the players provide food and drinks for the Hollyhock God (the term used for the GM in that system.)
Zuj 09-02-06, 09:58 PM	I think the only that comes close to a bribe or anything that I've experienced as a DM is somethign I set up with one of my players. My gaming group has an online message board set up to keep in touch between sessions. One of my players is an Art major, and he likes to draw the characters in the party and some of the encounters they face. I commonly give him some extra XP on the side for contributing this art to the group. Everyone else in the group knows about this and they are fine about it. I also hand out xp if people take extra time to write out background stories about their characters, etc. It generally evens out this way.
Nyxi 09-02-06, 10:07 PM	I take bribes, but I have limits. I'll give a little extra XP for iteams for food, ect. but not for money, ect. I'll give a little for Backstorys, and things like that, but it's usually not a significant amount, and they could earn just as much by roleplaying well or by inducing laughter by in character antics, in me, or my players.
Kradlo 09-02-06, 10:23 PM	The Amber diceless RPG had some character bonuses for player contributions to the game. Keeping an in-character diary, for example, gave a bonus. Logging the game sessions for campaign journal (an OOC style) was another choice. A player with artistic talent could do illustrations of NPCs or other PCs for credit. I have no problem with the idea, and institute it into my games. As long as the in-game actions get the majority of the XP awards, the extra tidbits don't unbalance play. As for the GM taking bribes, I recall a card from a game, "Bribe the GM with food." That's a time honored tradition. Of course, I'm the kind of soft-hearted GM that would often cook for my players. I felt it sometimes made me look downright sweet, which helped when I was being an evil and sadistic GM in the game.
Cryforge 09-02-06, 11:13 PM	I'm not one for giving bribes for OOG actions. As for bribes within NPC-PC interaction...:)
fawr 09-02-06, 11:44 PM	I dont mean like game breaking items of teh uber nasty but like, a +1 frost sword for say buying food for the entire group, or going to pick someone up thats out of the way to get everyone together for game? When I started DMing I gave players an XP penalty when they weren't at the table. However I ignored that rule if you were away from the table "for the good of the game" (like picking up food/other players). That basically boils down to something similar giving them free XP for picking up players, but the way I presented it to them made it sound reasonable.
Lord_Varos 09-03-06, 12:29 AM	As a DM, I hand out extra credit liberally. Bringing food gets you experience, driving people gets you experience, bringing good D&D music gets you experience, and writing character backstories gets you experience. This negates the problem of fairness, because anybody can get extra credit, not just people who drive often. I overcome the bias issue by stating that such actions must benefit the group, i.e. no giving stuff just to the DM or only bringing drinks for yourself. Also, people who don't waste time at the table with rules talk and constant searching through books to prove the DM wrong (which never, ever works). With all of this, our group gets character backstories, music, food, drinks, and rides when we otherwise would not, and everyone maintains ~the same experience total.
DeSkyggeKriger 09-03-06, 12:40 AM	I had two buddies in highschool (older guys who got me into D&D) and one of them was telling me how the DM gave him a ton of XP for the rest of his bag of chips.
Atirakis 09-03-06, 02:49 AM	:uh-huh: Utter nonsense. XP is earned IG and should not be handed out for OOG reasons. Ever :nonono:
Lord_Varos 09-03-06, 04:31 AM	:uh-huh: Utter nonsense. XP is earned IG and should not be handed out for OOG reasons. Ever :nonono: Nothing like a broad, sweeping comment about how everyone else's play style is wrong to show how knowledgable you are and how perfect your gameplay is. Personally, I think our group prefers to all be present, fed, and entertained over having absentees, empty stomachs, and a boring atmosphere but a mechanically flawless XP system. That's not to say that extra credit works for everyone. Obviously, if everyone always has a ride, your fridge is always well-stocked, and you have an array of D&D-appropriate music, then you'd have no need for "my" system. And if your players find it unfair, then it's clearly a bad idea. But assuming that everyone who is as inflexible as you obviously are is failing at D&D is simply ignorant and wrong.
Atirakis 09-03-06, 04:37 AM	How does someones character gain experience (you know where the abbreviation XP comes from) from a player bringing pizza?
Evil DM Mk3 09-03-06, 04:44 AM	I am glad to sya I have never violated my 4th wall that way. I am ashamed to say my first DM was far form fair on that point however, the onyl guy I have ever met to say: "First guy to get me a sandwich gets 1000xp." Needless to say he ended up with 4 sandwiches and five disruntled players (I had no money on me as I had a baged luch with a pasty in it.)
LordTyger 09-03-06, 04:55 AM	I'll admit, I used to do bribes, mostly because I tend to be a poor DM and there were times where I really needed a cold drink or some food. Even then, I kept it pretty much on the level. An extra feat, or a small (+1) bonus on a weapon, or maybe a free reroll of one crappy die roll. Nothing that would really throw the game out of whack, nor would it leave other characters in the dust. Another member of our group, though, started accepting bribes left and right when he was DMing, and there were two players in particular who had the money and desire to capitalize on it. On three different occasions, the game was totally FUBAR, because there was no point in anyone but those two playing, because they got so unbalanced because of bribes. What was worse, is the DM would encourage such things, dropping obvious hints and such. Since then, I don't accept bribes at all, namely because I'm sick of it in general, thanks to my friend who let it go too far. For the most part when I did it, the people wanted something small, made them a bit more unique. To some level, I'm okay with that. But, bribery just gets too out of hand too quickly, and when the folk who -can't- bribe fall to the wayside because of it, it becomes a major issue.
demonsinmyhead 09-03-06, 04:59 AM	Nothing like a broad, sweeping comment about how everyone else's play style is wrong to show how knowledgable you are and how perfect your gameplay is. Personally, I think our group prefers to all be present, fed, and entertained over having absentees, empty stomachs, and a boring atmosphere but a mechanically flawless XP system. That's not to say that extra credit works for everyone. Obviously, if everyone always has a ride, your fridge is always well-stocked, and you have an array of D&D-appropriate music, then you'd have no need for "my" system. And if your players find it unfair, then it's clearly a bad idea. But assuming that everyone who is as inflexible as you obviously are is failing at D&D is simply ignorant and wrong. hehe i completly agree here....ya know poverty makes it kinda hard to eat some times n when a minor item or couple hundred xp gets you some food or a drink it sure beats theft...
Ldyparadox99 09-03-06, 05:57 AM	There's only been one time that I've let my players use bribes to influence the game, but I think it was justified as we were playing a one shot game of the Munchkin RPG. Lets just say, you MUST put limits on what a player can do for a bribe otherwise they're liable to go a bit too far (money wise) if the whole group is competitive...but it's hilarious.
Horatio Hornblower 09-03-06, 09:48 AM	I am glad to sya I have never violated my 4th wall that way. I am ashamed to say my first DM was far form fair on that point however, the onyl guy I have ever met to say: "First guy to get me a sandwich gets 1000xp." Needless to say he ended up with 4 sandwiches and five disruntled players (I had no money on me as I had a baged luch with a pasty in it.) That's why you don't give IG rewards for OOG actions. Now, it's okay to give rewards for IG actions (notice that I'm not saying in character, I'm saying in game). If the DM says he or she will give XP for writing a charater backstory then that's okay. The backstory is character development and is part of the game even though it is done outside of a gaming session. What I don't agree with is bribes like the sandwich example. Some players will get :censored: off and that'll cause problems. Now if you want to encourage OOG actions with OOG rewards go right ahead. Play fair and don't mix it up with IG. Don't call it a bribe, call it an incentive. Hail capitalism and the American way! :cheer:
JamesDruidDM 09-03-06, 12:44 PM	well for one thing, a lvl 9 fire giant with a +1 frost weapon is in no way game breaking. I never give a lot of XP for anything oog, but if I am poor and starving, and a player buys me a burger or something, I give em something in return, some minor item, not even magical maybe just master work in the next treasure find. I've never given anything that was game breaking, 1000xp for a snadwich... better be the best sandwich ever. Utter nonsense. XP is earned IG and should not be handed out for OOG reasons. Ever I would like to point out that I never said anything about XP, xp in my games is earned in game only. but a minor item, or maybe a potion of cure X is not game breaking, and if it is, (a +1 sword or a pot of cure mod) is game breaking in your game theres a freakin problem.
JamesDruidDM 09-03-06, 12:55 PM	Now if you want to encourage OOG actions with OOG rewards go right ahead. Play fair and don't mix it up with IG. Don't call it a bribe, call it an incentive. Hail capitalism and the American way! :cheer: lol... I am well aware of game balance, and have never given out the +5 sword of vorpal death, that not what I am talking about. I am talking about a small "you scratch my back I will scrathc yours" no xp, but something from DM to player that shows a bit of appreciation for an oog favor/food/ride/whatever. I relize that there are going to be people on both sides of the fence on this. and I can respect both views, what I was wondering is what the DMs that do take the occasional bribe give
ornitholestes 09-03-06, 01:05 PM	I think its a bad idea for the DM to take bribes for personal benefit. This is abuse of power (and a stupid one at that) and will probably lead to bad feelings. That said, if a player does something that benefits the whole group (bring a pizza, bringing drinks, making a 3D model of the groups fortress, etc...), I might be inclined to give them a minor reward (usually a useful, but minor item - not exp). I would always find an in-game justification for this: the character finds an extra item in the next encounter or receives a spontanious gift from someone they saved earlier. Paranoia, for example, contains lots of notes urging the GM to take bribes in exchange for the game rules unit of perversity points. Well in Paranoia, all bets are off and any good GM abuses his power. Of course if another player has evidence of the bribe, the first player's character might just get summarily executed. . .
Tunjunz 09-03-06, 01:42 PM	As a player and not a DM i cant take bribes but my DM gives experience away at the start of a game if the character has a good back story (he says that they have expirienced more prior to the adventure) i think this is a great idea as it provides a bonus for good roleplaying and preparation!! what do you think of that idea?
JamesDruidDM 09-03-06, 02:15 PM	As a player and not a DM i cant take bribes but my DM gives experience away at the start of a game if the character has a good back story (he says that they have expirienced more prior to the adventure) i think this is a great idea as it provides a bonus for good roleplaying and preparation!! what do you think of that idea? for every page of back story , I give 500xp ...this has lead to problems...I got a 22 page back story form one player.... But in general (I now have a house rule of 2 page max) I do that, and if the player rights in things like special training in some specific thing that is the focus of his character (like an exotic weapon) somethimes I will even allow a exotic weapon prof for free. But that isnt a bribe thats more like a house rule or IMHO a DM being a good dm that encourages RP I'm talking strickly somone who brings soda/food/whatever for then entire group, and none in my group complains about it, and if someone did I would just stop it all together, but all 8 of the people I play with (2 groups, I am not always the DM ) do this, I guess its the way a poor broke DM (such as myself) show appreciation to a player for something that they didnt have to do but did anyways. I think that sorta thing needs to be rewarded, then again maybe I am to easy going :dancin:
Atirakis 09-03-06, 02:33 PM	Ok so you give out a +1 sword here and a potion there... no big deal. But now what about the next time? That +1 sword now needs to be improved so you give him frost on it. Pretty soon after a few more bribes hes got a pretty powerful item, when his character never earned any of it.
ornitholestes 09-03-06, 02:42 PM	Ok so you give out a +1 sword here and a potion there... no big deal. But now what about the next time? That +1 sword now needs to be improved so you give him frost on it. Pretty soon after a few more bribes hes got a pretty powerful item, when his character never earned any of it. I certainly agree that a situation such as this would quickly get out of hand. That said, I would hope that the DM can use a little good judgement and let things get out of hand. Furthermore, at least in the games I play, any magic weapon would be one heck of a bribe. I know wouldn't give even a +1 weapon (though I tend to play low level games). I think potions are ok, however. 1 potion of cure light wounds is not going to break the game. Then again, play styles can differ greatly. Whats fine for one group may be highly disruptive in another. . .
JamesDruidDM 09-03-06, 02:44 PM	Ok so you give out a +1 sword here and a potion there... no big deal. But now what about the next time? That +1 sword now needs to be improved so you give him frost on it. Pretty soon after a few more bribes hes got a pretty powerful item, when his character never earned any of it. Well for one I keep track of who has what and what Ive given out. and there is always a way of working an item into a story, ex: the priest of the temple you just saved runs up the road " Good sir, I wanted to thank you personally with this "insert item here" , may it serve you well" . Items dont just tumble out of the sky....excepte for that one time, and they were all daggers with poison and the PCs sure as heck didnt want them (PC created spell "tempest of blades" aka Steel Rain ) But part of my job as the DM is to make sure that things are kept in balance. If my games were getting out of hand and the 3rd level fightrer was cutting through cr 12's I would know there is a problem. I can see where people are coming from that it could break the game or cause other players to be jealous or upset, but if you play with adults (as I do no one is younger than 24, oldest is 35 ) these problems that many of you are bringing up just dont occur.
Atirakis 09-03-06, 02:47 PM	Part of your job as DM is making sure that rewards are handed out for proper reasons and being bribed is not a proper reason. Would you give them anything because they loaned you 10 bucks when you were short? What about 20? 100?
JamesDruidDM 09-03-06, 02:50 PM	Then again, play styles can differ greatly. Whats fine for one group may be highly disruptive in another. . . and I totally agree, and most of my games are high powered. I think if you play with mature people, and you keep an eye on things (take notes, keep track) you shouldnt have a problem. Then again I dont play with kids, ages 14 to 18 , which I'll bet a lot of DMs here do, either in highschool or whatever, and I could see something like a bribe becoming a huge problem, perhaps its an age thing
Archmage_Vall 09-03-06, 02:55 PM	I have once, and that was when I couldn't start my car in the winter, and one of my players gave me a jump start. So I gave him an extra 1000 xp for it.
JamesDruidDM 09-03-06, 02:55 PM	Part of your job as DM is making sure that rewards are handed out for proper reasons and being bribed is not a proper reason. Would you give them anything because they loaned you 10 bucks when you were short? What about 20? 100? Its not a bloody money bribe, I have stated what it was multiple time, food/drinks/pizza(which is a food subcatagory)/ a ride for a stranded player. and Dm that takes cash is not only a bad DM but a jerk as well.
JamesDruidDM 09-03-06, 02:58 PM	I have once, and that was when I couldn't start my car in the winter, and one of my players gave me a jump start. So I gave him an extra 1000 xp for it. thats the sorta thing I am talkin about
Atirakis 09-03-06, 03:00 PM	Its not a bloody money bribe, I have stated what it was multiple time, food/drinks/pizza(which is a food subcatagory)/ a ride for a stranded player. Food & drinks is the same thing as money. Money can be used to purchase food and drinks. So if I give you a pizza I get rewarded but if I give you 10 bucks for a pizza I get slapped in the face? and Dm that takes cash is not only a bad DM but a jerk as well. Not takes cash. Notice I said loan. Its a favor. YOu are paying the money back but he is still doing you a favor and just wants to know if he can get enough xp to reach the next level.
Momordi 09-03-06, 03:15 PM	Ok so you give out a +1 sword here and a potion there... no big deal. But now what about the next time? That +1 sword now needs to be improved so you give him frost on it. Pretty soon after a few more bribes hes got a pretty powerful item, when his character never earned any of it. No biggy. You can still respond to bribes and keep the powerlevel right. Just give him something else, don't give him something more powerful though. Potions are great because they are a one use item. I try limit myself to potions, dusts, and XP.
JamesDruidDM 09-03-06, 03:24 PM	Food & drinks is the same thing as money. Money can be used to purchase food and drinks. So if I give you a pizza I get rewarded but if I give you 10 bucks for a pizza I get slapped in the face? Not takes cash. Notice I said loan. Its a favor. YOu are paying the money back but he is still doing you a favor and just wants to know if he can get enough xp to reach the next level. Food and drink for the group not just the DM, and if you pitched in 10 bucks with another player I would give both players something, ex: a potion of bull str for the fighter and a scroll of magic missle for a caster, unless in your games that would be totaly game breaking, and agian if thatsthe case theres something wrong there And having a friend loan me money doesnt get him anything in a DnD game cause I would pay him back, thats what a loan is.
Pulpatoon 09-03-06, 03:27 PM	Food and drink for the group not just the DM, and if you pitched in 10 bucks with another player I would give both players something, ex: a potion of bull str for the fighter and a scroll of magic missle for a caster, unless in your games that would be totaly game breaking, and agian if thatsthe case theres something wrong there And having a friend loan me money doesnt get him anything in a DnD game cause I would pay him back, thats what a loan is. I prefer my bribes in the form of cash. Cold, hard cash.
Horatio Hornblower 09-03-06, 03:34 PM	I prefer my bribes in the form of cash. Cold, hard cash. That's the spirit! Remember, they're incentives, not bribes. ;) Seriously, JamesDruidDM, whatever works for your group is good. Personally, I prefer to keep IG and OOG separate. That's just my opinion.
JamesDruidDM 09-03-06, 03:35 PM	yes if you are a politican / policeman / health inspector / other public servent, not a DM. ....even though the DM plays all those roles...not the point, if somoene loans you money you pay them back, if they hand you 10 bucks and say hey just gimmie 1000xp say sure give them the 10 back and throw a bunch of gnoll warlocks (mm4) at them
JamesDruidDM 09-03-06, 03:40 PM	That's the spirit! Remember, they're incentives, not bribes. ;) Seriously, JamesDruidDM, whatever works for your group is good. Personally, I prefer to keep IG and OOG separate. That's just my opinion. LOL :D and it does work formy group it also happens very far and few between maybe once ever few months (we play twice a week ). And it works and no one has a problem with it. I just wanted to know how other dealt with it, and it seems that lots of people here are a little to serious about a game. On a side note somoene asked, no I dont belive in sentence structure.
Caliborn 09-03-06, 03:47 PM	Nope, never consciosly mix In-Game and Out-of-Game, and try to stop myself from doing it unconsciosly as much as possible.
Atirakis 09-03-06, 03:48 PM	I have once, and that was when I couldn't start my car in the winter, and one of my players gave me a jump start. So I gave him an extra 1000 xp for it. thats the sorta thing I am talkin about How is jumping your car any more of a favor then loaning you money when you are short? Just because you are paying him back doesnt negate the favor of the loan in the first place.
JamesDruidDM 09-03-06, 05:04 PM	How is jumping your car any more of a favor then loaning you money when you are short? Just because you are paying him back doesnt negate the favor of the loan in the first place. because it has nothing to do with DnD and you are entitled to your opinon but you just keep repeating yourself, and I have explained the diffrence multiple times in this thread. Said "bribe" has something to do with the game, and agian i will repeat this for you, buying EVERYONE food/soda/getting a player that is stranded to the game those are the things i am talking about. :banghead:
boozerker 09-03-06, 05:23 PM	We have a DM who used to accept a cigarrette to avoid a lame total party death (horrible rolling or really bad mistake). Sometimes. Lord_Varos, good response the previous page. Atirakis does have somewhat of a point, though. Dumb bribes like gimme the rest of your chips for 1,000 XP just kills the satisfaction that earning your XP brings. Many people would feel it cheapens the game, and would probably regret such a DM. The rest of the group would probably cheated and like their efforts mean nothing. That said, occasional and realistic bribes do add a little fun if it's that type of group.
JamesDruidDM 09-03-06, 05:28 PM	That said, occasional and realistic bribes do add a little fun if it's that type of group. and these are what I am talking about
Milandros 09-03-06, 05:32 PM	Nope. Never. I think that's abusing your position as a DM, to be honest. I don't regard "anyone with a page of backstory gets an extra x XP" as a bribe. But "Gimme a sandwich and you'll get 1000 XP - give me 10 pounds/dollars/whatever and you get 5000XP... give me a lift to the shops on Saturday and you can have 2000XP... sexual favours get you 10000 to 50000" kind of nonsense is silly. If you're poor and need help, do it honestly. "Guys, I'm DMing instead of working, I'm short on cash, how about somebody contributing to my gas money and getting me some snacks so I can keep DMing?" I'll allow a couple of exceptions - in a game like Paranoia, it's expected. It's part of the game. It's also intended to be delibverately silly. I have one (non-serious!) question for the "hell yeah! Bribe me!" crowd. Do you give XP for threats as well? Because that's the other half of the skill use... Intimidation instead of Diplomacy... :)
Atirakis 09-03-06, 05:47 PM	because it has nothing to do with DnD Ok stop. You said that giving your car a jump start qualified so tell me what does that have to do with d&d? and you are entitled to your opinon but you just keep repeating yourself, and I have explained the diffrence multiple times in this thread. Said "bribe" has something to do with the game, and agian i will repeat this for you, buying EVERYONE food/soda/getting a player that is stranded to the game those are the things i am talking about. :banghead: First I havent repeated myself once and feel free to show me that I am wrong. Second The bribes that have been described that you have said are acceptable appear to have very little to nothing to do with the game. Lastly you are probably only getting frustrated because you know you are making no sense in trying to battle the logic of In Game rewards should only be handed out for In Game actions
Yaeri 09-03-06, 05:54 PM	As a DM I don't take bribes, or however you want to call it. I would never give a player something in game, for something that player has done out game. As a player, I would be annoyed/irritated, if I saw the DM give another player something like that. Except for the one exception that it's something completely devoid of mechanical value. Stupid example: Enchanting someone's weapon in game to sing all the time, because out game it's his/her birthday.
Always-Late 09-03-06, 06:02 PM	In a lighthearted or one-shot game, buy me a pizza and see what you get. In a more serious game, no.
Milandros 09-03-06, 09:47 PM	The problem with doing this is that you are moving - or attempting to move - your in-game position as DM, a position which gives some minor authority and control in the game into the outer world. The moment somebody gets up from the table, the moment you all take a break or the moment you go and get a pizza you stop being the DM and go back to being one in a group of friends. If you start using your in-game "position of authority" for out-of-game matters then I think you're on a slippery slope; one that could well result in your friends resenting you for "requiring" bribes or for allowing others to bribe you. In addition, lighthearted bribery soon turns serious. Look what has happened to the US lobbying system - bribery has become institutionalised and now no politician will do anything unless there are votes or a "campaign contribution" in it. Bribers expect the bribee to stay bribeable and to do as he's been paid to do. What do you do when a player says "hey, I gave you a lift last Saturday to the movie, gimme XP!"? Or exchanges like "Oh heck, my pencil snapped, anyone got a spare pencil" "Only if you give me a +2 sword" start appearing?
LordTyger 09-04-06, 12:40 AM	The common recurring theme here is this - balance. And besides that, I would also like to note, that as serious as some people take it, it IS still just. a. game. With that said, I find it rather humorous when people offer large bribes, that cost a decent amount of money. I have yet to play a game that was sooo important that I'd shell out over $20 bucks for a small benefit. :rolleyes:
Lord_Varos 09-04-06, 01:07 AM	This is probably one of the most party-specific issues that I've ever seen. In my group, for instance, everyone ends up with similar bonuses for "bribes" and so no character outshines any other. But, oh man, if I was a player and not a DM and my DM used an extra-credit system like mine, I'd be epic before the other players started using four figures for their XP. In the group I play with, we are all in high school. I am the oldest, but nearly tied with my good friend for age, and the only one with a car and a license, and one of two with a job. That group would probably be worse-off with "bribing". But I am hands-down against something like, "Give me your Coke for 100 experience." I'm even a little bit of an offender like that, but my worst offense ever was, "5 experience if you pick up that d10 I just dropped."
Radijs 09-04-06, 05:25 AM	I've never taken actual bribes. Though there's continually a lot of jokes about appeasing the DM around our table in the end everybody knows that its no use, I run a fair game for all my players. They can bribe me IC though. Good roleplaying will get people extra goodies.
filistimo 09-04-06, 07:51 AM	You guys are looking at this all wrong. It's called *currying my favor*, and all my players need to do it just to make sure that their character isn't more likely to be the randomly selected one. Also, falling out of my favor doesn't cause a player's character to get killed or fall behind on the wealth per level curve, but it can effect which character gets singled out as the foil by sharp-tongued bards and barkers when the party gets back to town.
Corinthians 09-04-06, 09:05 AM	I once played in a LARP where two of the players were buying books for the storyteller almost every week in exchange for XP and other bonuses in the game. This ruined any sense of fairness I thought the storyteller had, and I stopped larping with that group shortly after finding out, so did a lot of other people.
Momordi 09-04-06, 07:13 PM	I once played in a LARP where two of the players were buying books for the storyteller almost every week in exchange for XP and other bonuses in the game. This ruined any sense of fairness I thought the storyteller had, and I stopped larping with that group shortly after finding out, so did a lot of other people. Larping and D&D are very different in this respect. D&D is usually made of smaller groups who are friends. Bribery is is just a friendly gesture that harms no one. If you can't handle a little bribery in your campaign, you need to relax.
boozerker 09-05-06, 12:00 AM	Many posters aren't taking into account that some groups enjoy bribing, and it's usually done for the group rather than a single player. To them, it's just another dimension to the game, sort of like an unspoken house rule, but one that works only when the DM feels like accepting. And those situations are no less fun than for gamers who refuse to bribe. However, used improperly -- like to benefit one player at the expense of causing regret from others in the group -- that's hardly any fun, and against the spirit of fairness. But if everyone in the group enjoys it and set unspoken boundaries properly, well that's their own style and no one can tell them it's wrong.
Magus Gar Kan 09-05-06, 01:32 PM	To a limited extent, our group does (or did) have a system of bribes back when the dragoneye set came out. Essentially our dm needed so many dragons for the adventure that he would grant 100xp/CR of the mini. This was later supplemented by giving 5K xp to the character of the person who would drop off two of the players at their house. There was also an xp award for cleaning off the battle mat at the end of the night. When the set cycled out, and our disposable income dried up the mini bribes kinda faded out. There were never any hard feelings about it, and of these practices only the battlemat cleaning is still in place. In most cases it is almost a bribe of XP from the DM to the player in order to get out of cleaning it himself. The players rarely squabble over who does it, and are usually content to let the PCs who need it to catch up (item crafters, people who missed a session, etc) take it.
Tolby 09-05-06, 01:56 PM	Although not an outright bribe I often reward players. Players who bring food/who are always prepared and ready to go/and do things out of game that have in-game effects (such as artwork/custom mini's/etc) are often spared a critical hit here or there. Other possiblities include instead of the fighter being targeted by charm person he instead sucks up a magic missle.
Stewie 09-05-06, 03:16 PM	This reminds me of a funny story, We were playing at a buddy's place which is a basement suite in an old house and I went to the washroom. I noticed a huge spider on the floor and thought "that would probably freak the hell outa Dave (the dm)" so I come out and let him know that he has a monster spider running around in his Bathroom. Before I was even finshed saying this he blurts out 2000 thousand xp to the person that kills it! I was practically bowled over by the rush of players to stomp this poor thing to death. True to his word he awarded the 2000 xp. :)
katarl 09-05-06, 04:15 PM	A dm i know once took pound bribes (thats about $1.60) for each point of ability score that he gave, when he told me, he expected me to be impressed, but I was disgusted. His group regularly does such things, and shows terrible favouritism among players. Out of game bribery for out of game effects. If you buy food for everyone, or bring drinks, then that makes you generous, and popular (if briefly). It won't however make you pull any more damage, at least not in my game. Vice versa, if you contribute to the game- histories and such, then in character benefits may be appropriate. If a bribe is of models or food or something else helpful to the group, then the other players may forgive a little help here and there, but to use xp gains as leverage in the real world blurs a lot of moral lines- leading me to say that if a person gives you a coke for 100xp- when others are depending on you to be fair- then that's clearly wrong. A real world parallel (so to speak) is the enormous industry that has grown up around everquest. By playing long hours, gamers amass virtual gold and items which they trade online for actual money. The situation has become so bad that the average GNP($) for such a player is greater than that of egypt (NewScientist). To give wealthy people an advantage in an escapist game is quite dishonest.
Board_Rider 09-05-06, 04:37 PM	I have actually tried bribing before but in the opposite sense in what I am reading here. I try to bribe the players. I want them to roleplay, write backstories and actually care about whats going on in their "world". So if they do that they get XP. Other players can fall behind if they don't wish to participate. I do temper that however with each individual in the group. As a DM I do not take bribes because I primarily do not need money for things like food, gas or drinks. If I do, I ask for it as a friend...not a DM. It honestly sounds a bit creepy that a grown up would say "Hey, pick me up some McDonalds and Tredduck the Barbarian gets a new axe!" Have I played under a DM who accepted some form of bribe for XP? Oh yeah. It was horrible too. A few older guys bribed and recieved stuff (xp, gear) and actually thought themselves cool for doing so. I was too angry to do it (I mean, really, your a referee of a fantasy game) and two of the other guys were literally just kids and thus couldn't bribe. Finally the ol' BR had to pull chuckles aside and shoot him straight. A bit of an extreme but it is what can happen. I will note however that if it is good for the group and nobody minds...hey, more power to the DM.
Atirakis 09-05-06, 04:43 PM	No! Absolutely not! I dont care what the group thinks is fun, bribing the DM for IG rewards is complete and utter BS and has nothing to do with role playing and should not be in anyones games ever. In fact if you allow yourself to be bribed as a DM then you are no longer a successful DM but some hollow mockery of a DM. You have abused your IG position for OOG rewards and should be stripped of ever being able to be a DM again.
Board_Rider 09-05-06, 05:07 PM	No! Absolutely not! I dont care what the group thinks is fun, bribing the DM for IG rewards is complete and utter BS and has nothing to do with role playing and should not be in anyones games ever. In fact if you allow yourself to be bribed as a DM then you are no longer a successful DM but some hollow mockery of a DM. You have abused your IG position for OOG rewards and should be stripped of ever being able to be a DM again. Normally I agree with you (I am against accepting, and doling out rewards for, bribes). But a DM means different things to different people.
Milandros 09-05-06, 05:29 PM	Actually the MMORPG gold farmer analogy is a good one. If you give money (or stuff you bought with money like books, food, etc, which to be honest is basically the same thing) to the DM he gives you bonus stuff. If you give money to gold farmers they will give you in-game gold, items, abilities, etc. The difference here is that it is the ones running the game who are giving you these bonuses, rather than other players, which I'm not sure is a more honest approach. Still, it is straightforward and true to the real world; those who have more money can buy themselves more toys. The richest players can get to have the best characters. Taken to extremes, this means: Whee. Now you can buy yourself a level 20 uber-l33t character fully kitted out with epic ph4t l3wt. Save sall that boring effort actually playing to get it. Out of curiousity, how do the bribery rewards appear in game? Does this +2 axe drop out of the clouds? Does it materialise by magic? Does the character wonder where this thing came from or does he just accept that his tron-style "user" has downloaded it to him?
Board_Rider 09-05-06, 09:42 PM	Actually the MMORPG gold farmer analogy is a good one. If you give money (or stuff you bought with money like books, food, etc, which to be honest is basically the same thing) to the DM he gives you bonus stuff. If you give money to gold farmers they will give you in-game gold, items, abilities, etc. I see where your coming from but a video game is just that...a video game. If I am a working player and my DM takes bribes I am giving him something that he can use in RL (food, cash whatever) for a pseudo-weapon which, honestly, benefits me in no way really. Sure, my make believe character came up, but now I have to find more gas money.
JamesDruidDM 09-06-06, 09:50 AM	No! Absolutely not! I dont care what the group thinks is fun, bribing the DM for IG rewards is complete and utter BS and has nothing to do with role playing and should not be in anyones games ever. In fact if you allow yourself to be bribed as a DM then you are no longer a successful DM but some hollow mockery of a DM. You have abused your IG position for OOG rewards and should be stripped of ever being able to be a DM again. I am so glad that your way is the only way. I sat down with my players, both groups this weekend and spoke with them about the subject and asked them if anyone feels slighted or if they felt tha game wasnt fun or jealous or anything like that. I got pencils thrown at me. PC1 () : if me buying everyone (6 people) dinner on saturday night will get me a hint, 20xp to level, or a potion to save my arse then oits completely fair and stop reading the stupid cimputer its bad for us. PC2() : Shut up and roll the d20 pc3([are oldest player hitting the chart at 30] : everyone is diffrent, we play this way, they play that way. there is no right or wrong, but this is how we do it..... He then started singing... pc4: dont listen to nubs on the net, they probly think they won pc5: said something about not being hungry at game and was munching on pizza pc6: moaned about another stop in the game that was my groups response, and I wasnt trying to get into an argument here, just wanted some other points of view, they are, as always, appreciated.
Lyinginbedmon 09-06-06, 10:00 AM	Nope, never, although that said most of my players don't have, shall we say, the prerequisite Intelligence score, to concoct an effective bribe...
Atirakis 09-06-06, 12:04 PM	How does buying everyone diner earn you anything in game? Thats just nonsense. Also you never did address the point of how is jump starting your car (something you said is acceptable as a bribe) any different from someone loaning you money when you need it (something you said was right out)?
JamesDruidDM 09-06-06, 01:52 PM	How does buying everyone diner earn you anything in game? Thats just nonsense. Also you never did address the point of how is jump starting your car (something you said is acceptable as a bribe) any different from someone loaning you money when you need it (something you said was right out)? is painfully obvious you dont understand what the question was for and you keep trying to argue with me. I'm not gonna explain it again, read the entire thread, or just dont post in the thread, we get iy, you dont like it, this isnt a deabate. you stated your opinon , move on.
boozerker 09-06-06, 02:08 PM	From the DMG: Something about playing the game how you like, the rules are just voluntary guidelines, and it's encouraged to change them as you see fit (just be careful not to unbalance things).
Atirakis 09-06-06, 02:09 PM	And yet again you didnt answer the question. How is jumping the car a favor that earns IG rewards but loaning you money isnt? Neither one benefits the whole group, and yet you applauded the car getting a jump example and bite my head off when I asked if loaning you money qualified.
eof 09-06-06, 03:15 PM	Well, I haven't, and wouldn't. I personally agree with Atirakis; I think there's inherit abusing of your IG position to take OOG bribes. Similarly, I'd never DM in one campaign and play in another and have some "I'll scratch your back, you'll scratch mine" interaction with the person that is player in the first campaign and DM in the other, even though they'd effectively be IG for IG benefits. Or, for that matter, give another player in Monopoly some of my "surplus" money in order to have that player go easy on me in multiplayer Magic. And so on. Although, I have given all my players "a +1 weapon, of your choice, for (one of) your character (in campaign X)" for Christmas... :D Having said that, if it works for JamesDruidDM, it works. As long as everyone (meaning, all players and the DM) are fine with it... *shrug* Whatever. But if it'd place some players (those that can't, or won't) in an unfavorable position (as compared to those who do), I'd personally be unhappy with it, question my role and responsibilities as a DM, and... well, shortly put, I'd personally never consider it, actually. On the other hand, there's also the question of appreciation. I typically look at D&D like this (and I might be alone in it): It's certainly possible that everyone, DM and players alike, can have fun, but it is the DM that does most of the work. The DM typically needs to have the best understanding of the rules typically needs to plan ahead what will happen (at least to some extent; if you can wing 100% of your games, good for you) the next session typically needs to prepare for what will happen (including drawing maps, designing encounters, picking monsters & preparing stats & writing down stat blocks for said encounters, writing notes for events to be encountered, and so on) has to play, to various extent, a multitude of characters for the PCs to interact with run those events and combats for the players on a larger scale, design the campaign, set the goals, do world-building, create NPCs and so on, and most important of all, make sure everyone is having fun, both by designing the adventures so that there is something for everyone and also by arbitrating the game. On the other hand, the players need to participate in the game and make choices (maybe OOG) about their character progression. (Some might choose to do more, like fleshing out their characters with backgrounds and so on, of course.) Point being, say that the players (or some of the players) feel like "hey, we're really grateful for the time you put into making our games fun, how about I pay your pizza?" Would that be ill-deserved? I dunno. Would it qualify as a bribe? Maybe. I guess I would accept it rather than be rude and decline, but I wouldn't give any IG rewards for it, I think, and if I did I'd be sure to give the same reward to all PCs, even though it was a particular player that made the offer. I probably wouldn't dole out XP, but an upgraded treasure certainly isn't out of the realm of possibilities, especially if the PCs are a bit light on money and/or magical items. As for stuff like rewarding someone for fetching a player, or paying gas money... (It's not completely on-topic, but not entirely off-topic either, so I'll say something about it as well.) I understand those issues, but find them a bit unseemly. I mean, it's obviously perfectly ok for someone to show appreciation for such things also, but to demand an reward for doing something... there are times when it is fair to expect rewards, and times when it is not. IMO. I have, over the years and with various activities, noticed that if there is an activity that requires (or at least encourages) participation by all involved, assembly issues will come up sooner or later. To resolve those issues it is always give and take, but the things you have to do tend to even out in the end. (If they don't, that's a separate issue with some persons leeching off the others.) Our group plays D&D maybe 3/4 of the time at my place (with four potential places to play, effectively three), and our policy is that whoever hosts also offers coffee and typically some small cake or similar (we play for 3-5 hours at a time typically). We also play other games, and then more frequently elsewhere, so we might be at my place about maybe half of the time, total. On those occasions when we play D&D somewhere else, I attempt to hitch a ride with someone, because I own and also have to transport all the related books and other material, and I'm definitely not interested in loading everything on my bike and riding off into the sunset. I live almost on-route when going from one of the other places where we play to the third, and it is a rather minimal effort (say, an additional 500 yards) to pick me up on the way. And no, I do not offer gas money for the guy I ride with. I realize this might sound very selfish, but here's how I see it: On the one hand, if that guy is going there anyway, he might as well pick me up on-route. If I were to offer him gas money (and we're talking rather short distances here, but less convenient with an overloaded bike than by car, obviously), what would be proper? Half (because we're two in the car)? One-fourth (because I ride along about half the way, and I split that between the two of us)? Some paltry sum (because of the additional 500 yards)? On the other hand, I host more often than anyone else (and there's one guy, the potential fourth place, who never hosts and never brings anything for public consumption), so doesn't that even out things? And additionally, for every session I spend at least 4-8 hours preparing and planning, meaning for every ride I hitch I have spent a minimum of 16-32 hours (split over several weeks) working to provide a fun and exciting game for everyone, shouldn't that account for something? Point being, Roy can be stingy and say "I got into my car and got Steve here for the game, now where's my reward?" but he should then also be expected to have a good answer when the DM says "I worked 20 hours to make this session memorable for you, reward me!" I perfectly understand the frustration of having to drive and fetch some other player (especially if we're talking longer distances), but let's face it, the DM might just as well also have spent those 20 hours flipping burgers at McDonald's, making himself money rather than working to improve everyone's gaming experience. And eventually, you'll notice that you spend more and more time book-keeping who has done what and deserves what reward/payment, and less and less time actually enjoying yourself. Or, accept that everyone is in the game to have fun, and everyone will have to do more than just show up, every once in a while (and the DM will, IMO, have to do more than anyone else). I don't see how it is the DM's responsibility to reward players for helping to get the game started properly, which typically should be everybody's goal anyway. But, there's nothing that says that the DM can't nudge things a bit in favor of whoever goes out of his way, IG or OOG---like, for instance: "Ok Steve, your rogue, who went a bit ahead in the dungeon, manages to remove the sword from the statue's grip. It hums slightly in your hand, and is obviously a magic longsword of some kind. Now, you can either stow it away and sell it without anyone knowing, as you usually do, but I think Roy's fighter would find it very useful, and I'm sure your rogue understands this." (And if Steve either doesn't get it, or worse, doesn't care, maybe Steve walks to the session the next time. In the rain.)
Atirakis 09-06-06, 03:24 PM	Excellent points. I spend 2 weeks a couple hours each day on average preparing things for my campaign. Wheres my rewards?
HIDragonstar 09-06-06, 04:37 PM	I don't actually take bribes from my players. The closest that people get for getting xp OoG is when we play OTHER games. Usually I do it because we need a break from DnD. Everyones gets (Doom Level)*50xp of the Arkham Horror baddie we defeat., gets (Money Level)*10xp in Junata. Heck my favorite is when we play Munchkin (the Card Game) and I say you get the (Level)*100xp at the end of the game. It provides a bit of competition in the players and gives us some incentive to play other games. The munchies and other goodies have to be shared. Nowdays we have a 'pool' for the goodies and gas. It doesn't help that there is only one driver, and we pretty much play at one location.