Post/Author/DateTime	Post
invaladuser 11-11-06, 11:13 PM	Im doing a undead horror campaign, but cant get the players to act the way they should given the back round information. They just do something stupid, or make a annoying joke. So how do you put fear into them. Make them second guess them selfs when they go into a building. Any suggestions.
Lord Diggori 11-11-06, 11:31 PM	I'd introduce at the beginning of an adventure a helpful, nice, jovial npc (young preferably). They could be the agent of delivering the plot hook, source of local info, or maybe not. The point is that they're upbeat and interactive. Soon there after the PCs find them dead, killed by the horror of choice for this adventure. If its a Gray Render, they're rended (dont just say that, describe it in vivid detail). From then on keep a poker face: dont laugh at jokes they make, speak monotone, embody the tone you want to set. They'll keep joking I'm sure, many folk deal with anxiety with humor, ignore it and stick to your guns.
invaladuser 11-11-06, 11:37 PM	Lord Diggori, i didnt know about the humor thing thanks. Who says dnd dosnt help you int score. Ive read though some other threads and they say music, but what music?
Salla 11-11-06, 11:39 PM	Horror games don't work very well with 'straight' D&D because the PCs have, well, their kick-butt abilities, spells, feats, and all that. Horror requires powerlessness. The reason all the kids in horror flicks are scared is because there's this monster out there and it's more powerful than all of them put together. They can't fight it; they have no chance in a direct fight. D&D characters aren't like that. You throw a monster at them, and it simply becomes a matter of 'can we beat it', because, well, they're professional adventurers. Kicking the crud out of hideous otherworldly scum is what they do. The key, then, IMHO, is to arrange things where the abilities and stuff that they rely on is unreliable. Spells don't function right, or cause HP damage or ability damage sometimes (or combine the two into CON damage). Magic items are nullified or weakened, or simply ineffective. Skip stats for the main monster ... he's flatly immune to everything the PCs can do unless they find his Achilles' Heel. Everything. You can't hack it, blast it, shoot it, nothing ... but once you (say) find the lost doll, dig up the little girl's body, and bury the doll with her, the monster immediately discorporates and she rests in peace. If that's a bit heavyhanded, look to templates. Familiarity breeds contempt ... if the players can rattle off the stats of a monster from memory, even if they don't act on it ICly, then that's a good time to make that a Fiendish Vampire ... or a Gelatinous Wraith (FEAR THE EVIL JELLO). And don't CALL it that, or even by its 'major species' ... give it a new name. :)
Greven_Thanatos 11-11-06, 11:42 PM	I agree with Diggori, as for your players jokeing and laughing during the game some of thats going to happen. The best way to stop it is to act the way you want them to act. If they make a joke and then look over to you to see if your laughing, and your not--at all. then they may get the hint, that your running a serious game and now is not the time for joke. Sure your getting together with your friends and part of that fun is the jokes, and stories, but it utterly destroys a serious or horror themed game. The players look to you for their cues, so act the way you want them to. As to instilling fear, throw some curveballs, and suprises. Be vauge in your descriptions (your player's own imagination is the best tool you have). Let them make assumptions and then break those assumptions. I once had them face a group of monsters that looked identical to Trolls, but then about half way through the battle, they powered up and immolated themselves in flames! The players just looked at me with utter suprise and were suddenly alot more afraid of the thing they hadn't seen before. With undead, you could try allot of different things, because they are so predictable (so they think). Lastly, depending on chracter level you might want to kill one of them in a particulary cinematic way. At high levels they should be able to get the person back, and it will let the players know your serious, and ready to play hard ball.
Comus 11-12-06, 12:02 AM	Want to know how to make a player afraid? Do the unexpected. Run a really hard dungeon, then turn around and have them do a quest in an empty tomb. Or, at least, it seems empty... until they accidentally trip the switch that resets all the traps and awakens the hidden guardians. Deprive the players of information. Pass them notes, instead of telling them things out loud. Take them into other rooms when they're alone. Ask for spot checks to notice tiny details that no one else sees, even if they look. A demonic face in a fireplace, a strange pallor to someone's face, that sort of thing. Let them face enemies they fear. More importantly, bring back enemies they know they killed. No one expects a vampire to come back after you've already staked him and left him in the sun. Footprints in the campsite, fresh, that don't belong to anyone. Ah, well. I'm not an expert.
The_Undertaker 11-12-06, 12:32 AM	If you want them to be afraid do things no one ever thinks of anymore. Use like a rust monster in a antimagic zone they'll be afraid of things like that.
bruiserdeck 11-12-06, 12:43 AM	YEP. unexpected is the key. as well as the characters have to actually lose or nearly lose something. if they are not afraid to actually die or lose things they will just go through the motions. all good examples here. one time i totaly tripped out a group because they walked out of a dungeon at night that they had easily handled. I started making them do spot and listen checks but there was nothing there. they camped in the entrance to the cave all night because after about 100 yards they figured they would hold up and wait for what ever beastie was out there to come to them. was pretty fun all around.
Lord Diggori 11-12-06, 01:42 AM	For music anything slow and depressing, soundtracks for period horror flicks are good -- Sleepy Hollow, Interview with the Vampire, etc. It's all gold: Mislead their expectaions. Do the unexpected. Creepy Spot and Listen checks. Over match them, seperate the party, surprise attacks. Ever seen a high Intelligence Grey Render Revenant with high hide and move silent mods that can Ethereal Jaunt? Me neither, but sounds scary dont it? ;)
Koverchenko 11-12-06, 03:32 AM	Another way to really set the mood is to build suspense. Players are used to just wading into a combat, full rounding the baddies until they're dead, and searching their bodies, and you'll be amazed how badly it screws them up if they can't. Make them wait for the baddies to come to them--they'll often second guess themselves into insanity, or get themselves into a much worse mess than they would be otherwise. Let the players make things harder for themselves, for they will come up with things that you could never think of. One of my parties was very nearly destroyed when I simply made them cross a river step by step... I myself actually did an undead horror campaign as my last campaign. One of the coolest battles I came up with was a battle in a graveyard by night--an inherently scary situation, made all the more scary by the fact that it was actually night when we played and I made sure to turn off all the lights in the house except for the light over the table. The players were attempting to defend the body of a local hero from being desecrated by the gang of ghouls known to inhabit the graveyard. It was not really a problem until night fell and it got dark. The players had set up a light near the grave, but the rest of the cemetary was shrouded in darkness, which the ghouls could see through but not the players. I made them wait for several rounds, just listening to the ghouls moving around in the darkness and communicating in a strange language--they knew the baddies were out there, but didn't dare venture out into the darkness in search of them. It also gave them a chance to waste several spells and turning attempts on ghouls they thought might be out there but could not tell for sure. When the attack finally came, they were really on edge and it scared the heck out of them--a ghoul had managed to sneak around and climb a tree near the grave, allowing him to drop down on them. Break up the party combat formula and force them to face situations they try to avoid. Also, it helps to give them something other than themselves to take care of--the big strong fighter may have no trouble facing down a whole horde of zombies single-handedly, but what is he supposed to do when there is a group of kids running around as well?
TarlSS 11-12-06, 04:47 AM	Act like an erratic nutjob during the game. Changes in voice moderation, shouting, whispering at random times. If you have music, cue in loud scary themes at sudden moments, quiet scary music during normal moments. Part two is to always win. Kick their butts consistently when they get cocky. Don't be afraid to cheat, just play the numbers. If your players are the awesome of awesome, grab a monster 5 CRs higher than neccessary and wipe them, then leave them alive. Play up the traditional fear triggers. Blood, screaming, rotting flesh. Weapons and armor crumbling to dust. Sometimes one of the biggest problems they can face is boredom. If they're 'into' something, just do a scenario where you put them in a box with no exit. Don't do it for a long time, that's just obnoxious. Have them struggle for fifteen minutes, then drag them along. Whatever you do, do not use a DM PC, or PC enemies. Everyone smells that they will betray them, it's quite obvious. It's just annoying when party members fight. More threatening than a DM PC that's just plain old overpowered and malicious. One that attacks them in their sleep, when they're in the privy. If there's something scary, it's something that waits for you to take a ****, then stabs you. Make them -work- to find a safe place to sleep and take care of daily needs.
CryoSilver 11-12-06, 07:26 AM	This really depends what kind of fear you're going for. I hold 2 kinds for D&D: terror and horror. Terror is mayhem, zombiepocalypse, gorefest chaos. For this kind of fear, put on some really fast music (Napalm Death is my favorite). Encounters should almost kill the PCs every time: EL should always be party level +3 minimum. Describe the blood and gore in a fast voice. Don't let up. If the players start joking, one of the PCs gets attacked. This kind of fear iis perpetuated by constant stimulation. It's a constant peak and the pressure never lets up. Caffienated beverages are appropriate. Horror is subtle, and I prefer it. No music. No candles: they're distracting. Dim the lights, but leave one on you: not a spotlight, but tilt the lampshade so the focus is on you. Speak in a calm, almost deadpan voice. When describing things, don't use tacky words like "wrong," or "eerie." Describe things normally, but in great detail. The absolute most important thing here is how you present the information. Your voice matters a lot; every inflection means something. Your body language is also important. Make eye contact with significant people. Glance at your notes a lot; it will make your players nervous. When the big climactic moment comes, don't give warning and don't build up to it. It should be sudden and shocking. I like to smash my hands palm down on the table.. If you get a "Jesus Christ!!!!" you did it right. This kind of horror is built on suspense and paranoia. If your players think that everyone is out toget them, you're doing it right. The mood needs to be set in advance. Ban table talk, and offer mild beverages. No beer, no shots, no soda. Tea is good, and I like scotch.
CharlieRock 11-12-06, 09:25 AM	Undead that are immune to the most common primary form of damage (like, zombies resistance to bludgeoning). This may even involve magics. Also, illusional (phantasmic) foes. They can keep swinging, and when something finally goes *THUD* and swings back. These are easily confused with Shadows (which are also undead).
Senevri 11-12-06, 09:30 AM	Aside from mechanical advice, have creepy things happen. Why? Who knows. Maybe there's an insane Ghost sorceress with lots of illusion spells tormenting the players. Don't try to kill the players. Kill everyone they encounter. ( Bane Wraiths are good for this. ) Drop in rumors as red herrings: Drop in an easily-killable fiend, and have it scream in it's last words, "DEMOGORGON IS COMING!" Have the town folk refer to the rumors of Tarrasque sightings. ( it's best if you don't use them, though. ) Have creatures that shift in from Astral, kill and shift back. They don't need to be overwhelmingly strong - maybe the BBEG hired a powerful Raksasha or a Gith assassin. Use movie cliches. Ghosts who drag the character to Ethereal and kill them in their sleep, Creepy Scary Little Girls, the Unseen Hunter...
Man in the Funny Hat 11-12-06, 01:58 PM	Im doing a undead horror campaign, but cant get the players to act the way they should given the back round information. They just do something stupid, or make a annoying joke. So how do you put fear into them. Make them second guess them selfs when they go into a building. Any suggestions. A game that relies on horror requires the willing participation of the players to have their characters BE horrified. If players are constantly making jokes to break the mood then either they are not interested in the horror aspect of the game and you should consider dropping it, or they are simply showing a natural reaction of humor to keep horror at bay. Talk to the players and ask them if undead horror is really what they want to play. If they say yes then tell them that they simply need to cooperate more to help maintain the mood. It's not a matter of "No Fun Allowed" at a horror game, but that humor is definitely a horror spoiler and needs to be kept firmly in place for it to work.
mephistophelesatefaust 11-12-06, 04:32 PM	Some of these are really good, but here was how I recently scared the high holy hell out of my players recently: They were entering a small village at mid-day. The fog was rolling in. They could not see, nor hear, any signs of inhabitants. They sent the rogue ahead (played by someone whom I know the fear triggers for). I dropped hints that something wasn't right. He 'felt a hand at his ankle' and tripped. Nothing was behind him. He saw the fog getting thicker. He found a trough, filled with a dark red fluid instead of water. He ran back to the party, unnerved (in and out of game, as I had taken him into another room for this). When he returned, he found that his '15 minute scouting foray' had taken several hours.The party enters the town, the trough is not nearly as far into the town as he remembers, and contains nothing out of the ordinary. They glimpse a face peering from a second story window (one player succeeds on the appropriate spot check, and hears this via note). They investigate the first floor, and the cleric heads up the ladder, followed by the rogue. On the bottom floor, the fighter begins to freak out, feeling surrounded by unseen foes. Upstairs, the cleric sees a silhouette in the light of the room's only window. He swings his mace, which passes right through his target, which vanishes before the rogue enters the room. In the end, the party flees the town, panicked, feeling hemmed in, and seeing faces and bodies in the fog.:evillaugh
bruiserdeck 11-12-06, 05:18 PM	I once had an encounter that I could not make work. basicly the players were in a sort of time loop. they came to a town where the people all talked about adventurers just like them going off to clear some mad wizards tower. they kept getting clues about this group that was just like them but the clues were carefully paced and worded so that they would not think about that untill later. apperantly only one of the group survived the encounter and came back to town inflicted with a spell that caused him to dissipate an hour or so after getting back to town and telling the people what happend. as the players start on the mission they whitnessed bits and peaces of themselves going through the adventure and came to things that started to remind them of the story of the last adventurer. eventually they figured it out. but they figured it out too early and booked out rather than fight the adventure and since I had already told what happend I could not figure out a way to change things to force them to stay. was fun though. those guys were VERY carefull about stories they heard from towns people after that.
RobbyPants 11-12-06, 06:35 PM	D&D characters aren't like that. You throw a monster at them, and it simply becomes a matter of 'can we beat it', because, well, they're professional adventurers. Kicking the crud out of hideous otherworldly scum is what they do. The key, then, IMHO, is to arrange things where the abilities and stuff that they rely on is unreliable. Spells don't function right, or cause HP damage or ability damage sometimes (or combine the two into CON damage). Magic items are nullified or weakened, or simply ineffective. Skip stats for the main monster ... he's flatly immune to everything the PCs can do unless they find his Achilles' Heel. Everything. You can't hack it, blast it, shoot it, nothing ... but once you (say) find the lost doll, dig up the little girl's body, and bury the doll with her, the monster immediately discorporates and she rests in peace. This is actually the basis for an adventure I'm going to run when the PCs get to a slightly higher level. The gist of it is they'll run into a monster (that I'll have to stat up myself) the will be a powerful form of undead. I'm thinking something similar to The Grudge. I'll do something simlar to a ghost, in that it's a person's spirit out for revenge, but the PCs have to figure out how to "satisfy" said creature and end the curse. I'll make it so that they can "stun" it or temporarily defeat it, but they cannot kill it by standard means. Hopefully this with some vivid descriptions will get the mood across. Enough about my game... as for advice: other people have hit on most of the important points: Things that come back unexptected can be scary. Give your skeletons regeneration. They must be killed with holy water (or someting similar). Try to limit the table talk, but lead by example on this one. Use monsters and describe them in such a way as to make the players uncertain if they can kill it. Things aren't as scary if you just go up to them, roll d20 and then roll damage. Don't use a map for the "scary" encounters. Once the players see a mini for your creepy BBEG, it will remove all fear, as the thing can now be represented by a tiny piece of metal or plastic. When they look at a map, the see positions and tactics. This kills the horror of it. Dim lights can help, and if this isn't normal for your game, it will send a message early on about the type of game. Killing innocents is a good way to creep them out. Have them find someone they like. As for details, describe things like gore in great detail, but not the big bad monsters. Leave their descriptiosn vague. This is an age-old ghost story tactic, where the player's imaginations will do far better than any words you can tell them. Lastly, as others have said, use unexpected things. Let them get attacked when they think they are safe. Let them find a pool of blood somewhere they wouldn't expect. Good luck with the game :D
invaladuser 11-12-06, 07:06 PM	Thanks for the information, I got a hint from the person incharge of The Dice Bag site. Gave some good information. Stuff like having the party being hunted, kinda like in predator. So I thinking of makeing a monster large in size, have skin so think that only something with the force of a seige weapon can perce it, and hunt any people on the island there traped on. To make it intersting have it be blind and hunt by sound and sent. It can crush most people with one hand, work with bullrush, and grappleing. Have it chase them through out the game. It would be strong enough to break though walls. Just think, In game you enter a large ball room. Pillers surrond most of the room. The room is complety empty. when they get to about the center there is a loud roar coming from the opposit side of the the room. Then it burst though the wall, crashing though two of the pillers. The pcs have to find a way out, and try to stop it. Or else it will keep on fallowing them till they find some were It can fallow them.
Thubby 11-12-06, 08:52 PM	dont fight them to scare them, fail to fight them. the near encounter is a hell of a lot scarier than the actual fight, let them know something is out there, but they wont know what. make them witness what it can do, without engaging it. have them fight in bad circumstances, underwater, in the dark (spell or otherwise), grapple. hit and run (so they dont get any idea what it can do) take their abilities, slowly. they go in all cocky (as all horor movie victims do), with all those cool powers, and neat feats. then, take them away, if the fighter is a g sword adddict, sunder it. the wizard is a fire mage. put him underwater, or make your enemy fire resistant. etc. the biggest thing that works (in my experience) let it known this thing is smarter than them. if they have a new combat strategy, find the hole, however tiny, and exploit it. if they want to protect something/one, take them away, through some completely overlooked route. force the player to action, not the character, and they will get very involved, and easy prey for your ideas. ability dmg gets big reaction from players, when the fighter has a 2 str, and noone ot save him, he will fear