Build-a-Beast [Archive] - Wizards Community

Build-a-Beast [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Malcaor
02-06-08, 05:36 PM I am going to build a creature for the first time. I have the monster manual so I'm going to follow the building methods it has in the back.

I'm basing this creature on the Yugoloth, Canoloth from MM3. Its going to be a demon that's dog-like and acts like a man-hunter. CR is 4-5. I would like it to have a tongue attack like the Canoloth, but only with the paralysation ability, not the grab.

Its going to be meant for stealth, and will have some good methods for sneaking. I am thinking the ability to climb on walls in particular. Its going to be intelligent, and will be trying to use up the party's resources rather than out-right attack.

So how should I go about building this creature? Anything in particular?
Sinis
02-06-08, 06:17 PM Well, since you've already figured on the Outsider type, the first thing to decide is how much hitdice it has. If it's going to be a CR 4-5, you might want to make it 4-6 HD, depending on what sort of abilities it has. If it's not going to have any special abilities, you might want to give it more HD (because at that point, it's a bag of meat). The more tricks it can do, the weaker it should be HD-wise.

Once you've decided that, figure out what sort of stats it should have. I'd recommend looking at the outsiders in the Monster Manual to see what they typically have. You'll find some of the higher CR monsters have pretty amazing stats, while the lower ranks are quite weak. Place stats according to it's strengths and weaknesses. If it's a cunning predatory type outsider, it'll have high Int and Dex for sure, but maybe not be outrageously strong, or have particularly high Con, Wis or Cha stats. You may also want to look at the Dog entry also, to see what dogs typically have for stats, and then work from there. It's easiest to start off as a medium creature, and then change the size of the creature by the table in the Monster Manual (or from the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases)). Don't be afraid to tweak it's hit dice, size or stats later.

After that, check out what Outsiders (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderType) get on a per HD basis. You'll also want to give it feats (1, plus 1 for every 3 HD). Weapon Focus or Weapon Finesse.

You may also want to give the creature some supernatural, spell-like, or extraordinary abilities. If it's a stalker like creature, it might be have Invisibility 1/day as a (Sp) ability, or perhaps Darkness 1/day, perhaps Spider Climb as a (Su) ability (like a vampire) or something even more bizarre. If it's a dog-like creature, it'll probably have Scent as an (Ex) ability, for example.

During this process, you'll want to see if gets any racial skill bonuses, or racial feats. Use these sparingly, there's very few races out there that get pluses to skills for no reason, or have feats for free.

Lastly, when you've finished all this, you'll have to take a step back and see if it's really the CR you intended it to be, and whether it needs to be scaled up or down.

This is a really condensed version of what you should be doing. You may want to spend a fair bit of time and thought on it.
Malcaor
02-06-08, 09:32 PM Ok thanks for the suggestions. That's gonna be really helpful.
Alexeduardo
02-06-08, 09:57 PM I don't know if I should ask here, but I'm also gonna build my very first creature (squeals), are there any guidelines on how to figure out a CR?
Sinis
02-06-08, 11:28 PM I don't know if I should ask here, but I'm also gonna build my very first creature (squeals), are there any guidelines on how to figure out a CR?

It's pretty arbitrary. Like, arbitrary in the same way that an Eagle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/eagle.htm) has Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat and precisely a +8 racial bonus to spot checks.

Mostly, you have to guess.
Alexeduardo
02-06-08, 11:31 PM It's pretty arbitrary. Like, arbitrary in the same way that an Eagle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/eagle.htm) has Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat and precisely a +8 racial bonus to spot checks.

Mostly, you have to guess.

oh, poop
Sinis
02-06-08, 11:36 PM oh, poop

Well, you could always compare it's attack bonuses, AC, Saving Throw bonuses and abilities to existing creatures, and then guess from there.
IMADAJ
02-07-08, 01:35 AM I have never actualy tried to make my own creature from scratch but here is one way I might go about it (and I tend to over think things)

Target: use a premade creature or class you want to base your creature and EL on. (wizard for a spell slinger, fighter for a brawler, monster from the monster manual, what ever) Use the EL you want to make!

Creature: the one your making

Average Damage: The average damage of all the attacks able to be made as if they will always hit

Chance to hit: (20-AC-Base Attack Bonus)*.05

Target's HP/(Creature's Average Damage*chance to hit Targtet)=Creature's HP/(Target's Average Damage*chance to hit Creature)

HP of target/average damage target will take a round = HP of Creature/average damage Creature will take a round (The higher the HP the hight the amount of damage it can take per round and vice versa

use this to come up with:

Creature's HP=(Target's HP*Target's Average Damage*chance to hit Creature)/(Creature's Average Damage*chance to hit Target)

From here you can plug in numbers for "chance to hit creature" and "creature's average damage" to find the creature's HP. Play around with it to create many creatures of that EL and the type you chose earlier.

The higher the HP the lower the AC and/or damage it can deal
The higher the AC the lower the HP and/or damage it can deal
The higher the Damage it can deal the lower the HP and/or AC

Next play with the number of attacks. Just make sure they all add up to the average damage you pluged into your formula. (if you really want to get into the numbers, as if I haven't already, you can have differen't attacks have different base attacks)

The types of attacks are up to you. Natural, weapon, spells...

From here fill in skills and feats you think fit the creature of the EL you are creating. Come up with the attributes now as well, but keep in mind the AC, HP, and Attack Bonus you found above. If an attribute gives a bonus act as if that bonus was already figured out in the AC, HP, or attack bonus!!! Same goes with the base attack number.

(ex: if you know that the attack bonus is +10, keep in mind that that number is the FINAL result of all bonuses. So you could have a base attack of +7 and a Str bonus of +3)

So.....anyone confused yet?

As I said before, I never tried it myself and I don't even know how well it works if it even works at all. If anyone does try it please let me know how it works out.
Malcaor
02-08-08, 03:10 PM So I built the creature. Its got 4d8+12 for Hit Die. Its main attack is a ranged thing that has +8 to hit does 1D6 and cuases paralysation Fort DC 17. Its AC is 19. It has Spider Climb at will, Inis 1/day and scent. Feat is weapon finesse and Track. This look good for a CR 4?
Roivas
02-08-08, 04:57 PM Sounds easier than a Runehound :D
I found out by advancing that monster to 10 HD only jumps its CR up to 5 with a near lean to 6 at the outside and it can do 10d6 acid damage within 100ft with a ranged touch attack. Just plain evil.
You might want to mention the beasts size/type/alignment [in case we can't guess] and possibly the entire statblock. We can help more if we know more.
Malcaor
02-08-08, 11:34 PM Here's the full stat block:

Dark Hound
Medium Outsider(Evil,Chaos,Extraplanar)
Hit Dice 4D8+8
Init. +4
Speed 50ft
AC 19 (+4 Dex, +5 Natural)
BAB/Grap. +4/+4
Attack: Snout Needle +8 (1D6 + Paralysis) Or Claw +8 (1D6)
Full Attack: Snout Needle +8 (1D6 + Paralysis) Or 2 Claws +8 (1D6)
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft (30ft with Needle)
Special Attacks: Paralysis Fort DC 17, 1D6+1 rounds
Special Qualities: Spider Climb (su), Scent (ex), Invisibility 1/day (su)
Saves: Fort +6/Ref +8/ Will +3
Abilities: Str 10 Dex 19 Con 14 Int 19 Wis 10 Cha 6
Skills: Climb +7, Balance +11, Disable Device +11, Forgery +11, Hide +11, Jump +11, Move Silently +11, Open Lock +11, Search +11, Survival +7, Swim +11, Tumble +11
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Track
CR: 4

The Dark Hound is a creature from the Abyss. It is bred by demons to hunt down their enemies. With two sacs on the sides of its neck, it can pressurize and fire poisoned needles with incredible force. The needle is fired from a shoot on the top of it jaw, just above the nose.

The encounter will be pretty drawn out. They're facing it in a mountainous area, specked with dwarven ruins. The Dark Hound knows the area better, and a bit about the party. He's going to try and use up their resources, tire them out, and capture them one by one. He has orders not to kill unless necessary. I intend to play him intelligently and evilly.
Sinis
02-08-08, 11:42 PM Looks good. The Will save should be +4, but it looks good.

It might be a tiny bit weak for a CR 4, I'd consider increasing it's HD to 5, and adjust its skills, saves, base attack and hp appropriately.
Pezz
02-09-08, 04:00 AM I dunno, a DC17 save vs paralysis for 1d6 rounds at level 4 can be pretty tough.
a fighter with 18 in con would only have +7 fort save at level 4, which would be a 50% chance. anyone else would have <40% chance of resisting. boosting the HD would make it more than a CR4.
Malcaor
02-09-08, 09:59 AM How about if I boost the HD, but drop the poison Dc to 15?
Sinis
02-09-08, 11:19 AM Ooh, actually, a critter's poison DC is based on this formula, from the SRD:

The Fortitude save DC against a creature’s natural poison attack is equal to 10 + ½ poisoning creature’s racial HD + poisoning creature’s Con modifier

So, your critter's poison DC would be 14 anyway.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Malcaor 02-06-08, 05:36 PM	I am going to build a creature for the first time. I have the monster manual so I'm going to follow the building methods it has in the back. I'm basing this creature on the Yugoloth, Canoloth from MM3. Its going to be a demon that's dog-like and acts like a man-hunter. CR is 4-5. I would like it to have a tongue attack like the Canoloth, but only with the paralysation ability, not the grab. Its going to be meant for stealth, and will have some good methods for sneaking. I am thinking the ability to climb on walls in particular. Its going to be intelligent, and will be trying to use up the party's resources rather than out-right attack. So how should I go about building this creature? Anything in particular?
Sinis 02-06-08, 06:17 PM	Well, since you've already figured on the Outsider type, the first thing to decide is how much hitdice it has. If it's going to be a CR 4-5, you might want to make it 4-6 HD, depending on what sort of abilities it has. If it's not going to have any special abilities, you might want to give it more HD (because at that point, it's a bag of meat). The more tricks it can do, the weaker it should be HD-wise. Once you've decided that, figure out what sort of stats it should have. I'd recommend looking at the outsiders in the Monster Manual to see what they typically have. You'll find some of the higher CR monsters have pretty amazing stats, while the lower ranks are quite weak. Place stats according to it's strengths and weaknesses. If it's a cunning predatory type outsider, it'll have high Int and Dex for sure, but maybe not be outrageously strong, or have particularly high Con, Wis or Cha stats. You may also want to look at the Dog entry also, to see what dogs typically have for stats, and then work from there. It's easiest to start off as a medium creature, and then change the size of the creature by the table in the Monster Manual (or from the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases)). Don't be afraid to tweak it's hit dice, size or stats later. After that, check out what Outsiders (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderType) get on a per HD basis. You'll also want to give it feats (1, plus 1 for every 3 HD). Weapon Focus or Weapon Finesse. You may also want to give the creature some supernatural, spell-like, or extraordinary abilities. If it's a stalker like creature, it might be have Invisibility 1/day as a (Sp) ability, or perhaps Darkness 1/day, perhaps Spider Climb as a (Su) ability (like a vampire) or something even more bizarre. If it's a dog-like creature, it'll probably have Scent as an (Ex) ability, for example. During this process, you'll want to see if gets any racial skill bonuses, or racial feats. Use these sparingly, there's very few races out there that get pluses to skills for no reason, or have feats for free. Lastly, when you've finished all this, you'll have to take a step back and see if it's really the CR you intended it to be, and whether it needs to be scaled up or down. This is a really condensed version of what you should be doing. You may want to spend a fair bit of time and thought on it.
Malcaor 02-06-08, 09:32 PM	Ok thanks for the suggestions. That's gonna be really helpful.
Alexeduardo 02-06-08, 09:57 PM	I don't know if I should ask here, but I'm also gonna build my very first creature (squeals), are there any guidelines on how to figure out a CR?
Sinis 02-06-08, 11:28 PM	I don't know if I should ask here, but I'm also gonna build my very first creature (squeals), are there any guidelines on how to figure out a CR? It's pretty arbitrary. Like, arbitrary in the same way that an Eagle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/eagle.htm) has Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat and precisely a +8 racial bonus to spot checks. Mostly, you have to guess.
Alexeduardo 02-06-08, 11:31 PM	It's pretty arbitrary. Like, arbitrary in the same way that an Eagle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/eagle.htm) has Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat and precisely a +8 racial bonus to spot checks. Mostly, you have to guess. oh, poop
Sinis 02-06-08, 11:36 PM	oh, poop Well, you could always compare it's attack bonuses, AC, Saving Throw bonuses and abilities to existing creatures, and then guess from there.
IMADAJ 02-07-08, 01:35 AM	I have never actualy tried to make my own creature from scratch but here is one way I might go about it (and I tend to over think things) Target: use a premade creature or class you want to base your creature and EL on. (wizard for a spell slinger, fighter for a brawler, monster from the monster manual, what ever) Use the EL you want to make! Creature: the one your making Average Damage: The average damage of all the attacks able to be made as if they will always hit Chance to hit: (20-AC-Base Attack Bonus).05 Target's HP/(Creature's Average Damagechance to hit Targtet)=Creature's HP/(Target's Average Damagechance to hit Creature) HP of target/average damage target will take a round = HP of Creature/average damage Creature will take a round (The higher the HP the hight the amount of damage it can take per round and vice versa use this to come up with: Creature's HP=(Target's HPTarget's Average Damagechance to hit Creature)/(Creature's Average Damagechance to hit Target) From here you can plug in numbers for "chance to hit creature" and "creature's average damage" to find the creature's HP. Play around with it to create many creatures of that EL and the type you chose earlier. The higher the HP the lower the AC and/or damage it can deal The higher the AC the lower the HP and/or damage it can deal The higher the Damage it can deal the lower the HP and/or AC Next play with the number of attacks. Just make sure they all add up to the average damage you pluged into your formula. (if you really want to get into the numbers, as if I haven't already, you can have differen't attacks have different base attacks) The types of attacks are up to you. Natural, weapon, spells... From here fill in skills and feats you think fit the creature of the EL you are creating. Come up with the attributes now as well, but keep in mind the AC, HP, and Attack Bonus you found above. If an attribute gives a bonus act as if that bonus was already figured out in the AC, HP, or attack bonus!!! Same goes with the base attack number. (ex: if you know that the attack bonus is +10, keep in mind that that number is the FINAL result of all bonuses. So you could have a base attack of +7 and a Str bonus of +3) So.....anyone confused yet? As I said before, I never tried it myself and I don't even know how well it works if it even works at all. If anyone does try it please let me know how it works out.
Malcaor 02-08-08, 03:10 PM	So I built the creature. Its got 4d8+12 for Hit Die. Its main attack is a ranged thing that has +8 to hit does 1D6 and cuases paralysation Fort DC 17. Its AC is 19. It has Spider Climb at will, Inis 1/day and scent. Feat is weapon finesse and Track. This look good for a CR 4?
Roivas 02-08-08, 04:57 PM	Sounds easier than a Runehound :D I found out by advancing that monster to 10 HD only jumps its CR up to 5 with a near lean to 6 at the outside and it can do 10d6 acid damage within 100ft with a ranged touch attack. Just plain evil. You might want to mention the beasts size/type/alignment [in case we can't guess] and possibly the entire statblock. We can help more if we know more.
Malcaor 02-08-08, 11:34 PM	Here's the full stat block: Dark Hound Medium Outsider(Evil,Chaos,Extraplanar) Hit Dice 4D8+8 Init. +4 Speed 50ft AC 19 (+4 Dex, +5 Natural) BAB/Grap. +4/+4 Attack: Snout Needle +8 (1D6 + Paralysis) Or Claw +8 (1D6) Full Attack: Snout Needle +8 (1D6 + Paralysis) Or 2 Claws +8 (1D6) Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft (30ft with Needle) Special Attacks: Paralysis Fort DC 17, 1D6+1 rounds Special Qualities: Spider Climb (su), Scent (ex), Invisibility 1/day (su) Saves: Fort +6/Ref +8/ Will +3 Abilities: Str 10 Dex 19 Con 14 Int 19 Wis 10 Cha 6 Skills: Climb +7, Balance +11, Disable Device +11, Forgery +11, Hide +11, Jump +11, Move Silently +11, Open Lock +11, Search +11, Survival +7, Swim +11, Tumble +11 Feats: Weapon Finesse, Track CR: 4 The Dark Hound is a creature from the Abyss. It is bred by demons to hunt down their enemies. With two sacs on the sides of its neck, it can pressurize and fire poisoned needles with incredible force. The needle is fired from a shoot on the top of it jaw, just above the nose. The encounter will be pretty drawn out. They're facing it in a mountainous area, specked with dwarven ruins. The Dark Hound knows the area better, and a bit about the party. He's going to try and use up their resources, tire them out, and capture them one by one. He has orders not to kill unless necessary. I intend to play him intelligently and evilly.
Sinis 02-08-08, 11:42 PM	Looks good. The Will save should be +4, but it looks good. It might be a tiny bit weak for a CR 4, I'd consider increasing it's HD to 5, and adjust its skills, saves, base attack and hp appropriately.
Pezz 02-09-08, 04:00 AM	I dunno, a DC17 save vs paralysis for 1d6 rounds at level 4 can be pretty tough. a fighter with 18 in con would only have +7 fort save at level 4, which would be a 50% chance. anyone else would have <40% chance of resisting. boosting the HD would make it more than a CR4.
Malcaor 02-09-08, 09:59 AM	How about if I boost the HD, but drop the poison Dc to 15?
Sinis 02-09-08, 11:19 AM	Ooh, actually, a critter's poison DC is based on this formula, from the SRD: The Fortitude save DC against a creature’s natural poison attack is equal to 10 + ½ poisoning creature’s racial HD + poisoning creature’s Con modifier So, your critter's poison DC would be 14 anyway.