Building a metropolis [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building a metropolis [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Goblinhorde
11-26-03, 02:53 AM I'm building a campaign set in the Kingdoms of Kalamar setting. I have already decided that I want most of the campaign to occur in Bet Kalamar. The largest city on Tellene. Over 300 thousand people are there.

Now heres my problem. I've never built a city the size of Bet Kalamar before. Its a lot more difficult than I realized.
I'm writing information on the poor quarter and all I've really got is a few temples, some shops and Inns and a thieves guild. I feel like I need more information.

I need some ideas, and some methods for building a city the size of Bet Kalamar. What kind of information do I need? How do I make the city seem exciting and alive? I'd also like to hear from people who have ran entire campaigns inside a city. How'd it go?
Any suggestions and comments are welcome.

Thanks in advance
jakubias
11-26-03, 03:33 AM Hmmm... Try this D&D DM's GUIDE 3.5 WEB ENCHANCEMENT
http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20030719a
THERE's stuff about building different districts.... i used it when i designed my own version about FR's Waterdeep.... quite nice...

Try also if you have new 3.5 dm guide looking for little section about urban adventures... some small guidelines.
Also, while in big city, organized crime leagues are quite common threat so u might try adventure about those.

Possible campaign might consider also some politics (ofcourse depending on the way you play) if Pc's are mid or high level charachters. Low levels in politics don't somehow sound quite realistic or something.
Upcoming LoTR III return of the king has the epic fight outside MInas Tirith, if you want to (it quite a risk) you could plan a ultimate climax of your campaign on a battle of 100 000 men strenght.
campaign in big metropolis depends much about the style of your game. If u play kind of Hack n' Slash, it's not a stupid idea to put a huge ancient necropolis under your city. Kicking some skeletal but is allways fun, or as long as you have mighty cleric in your posse.
Thrashmage
11-26-03, 11:36 AM When I began building a campaign for a metropolis, I started by getting a VERY rough idea of what areas there are. Then I used the above-suggested district building to help break those areas down (not completely, but some). That gave a beginning framework to the city I could begin to inhabit.

I started thinking from the PCs perspective. What are they going to want to do? I figured they'd want various items and supplies, so I created multiple places they could go, with subtle differences. Like buying weapons from three different places, where one is average quality, one specializes in Dwarven hammers, and the third is great with exotic weapons. You could buy a longsword in all three, but they each had their own flavor. Make a shopowner for each of them (all unique), and viola, you've got a city's worth of weapon shops.

It's not that all three would account for the whole city's weapons, but it does give the idea to the PCs that there are options in a big city that small towns just don't have. You don't want to overwhelm your players with 50 options. Give them three main ones, and if you need a smaller one or a super-specialized one, that's what you can craft on the fly.

Now do the same with anything else you think they'll need or want. A bar? I've got a popular one in the common district that is also a temple of Olidammara, an upscale one in the rich part of town, a dance hall in the monstrous quarter, and a neighborhood one in the theatre district. They're not that close together, but this way whatever part of town the PCs are in, they can have a bar where everybody knows their name.

Have fun!
Bluebrush
11-26-03, 12:01 PM Originally posted by jakubias
Hmmm... Try this D&D DM's GUIDE 3.5 WEB ENCHANCEMENT
http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20030719a
THERE's stuff about building different districts.... i used it when i designed my own version about FR's Waterdeep.... quite nice...

Hmm, almost off topic, but when they say "an area has a population of 450", do they mean people who actually live there or just people who will be there as part of a normal day?

Cause otherwise, those two lodgings in the Market place district are going to have about 225 people living in each.

Of course, maybe they're assuming people all live in their own shops and such.

Yeah, that's probably it...
jakubias
11-26-03, 12:55 PM Ye, ppl live upstairs their houses. In medieval metropolis there are buildings 3-5 floors height.

Start from some clear things that will dominate the landscape. For example, if that city has a port, you could design a huge lighthouse which can be seen miles away, or a grand statue for Deity who's worshipped there??
Shayde
11-26-03, 01:16 PM The best advice I can give is not to do everything at once, I have been putting together an entire world and it makes no sense to know exactly what every shop and inn is called.
I would start with half a dozen important locations for each district at most and then make up the rest as you go along.:tiphat:
jakubias
11-26-03, 01:20 PM I agree with Shayde. Try also this http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=1678&
It was orginally posted by DougC in Useful Dm links thread. You get free tome with good information.

Well, i think that was all i had to say bout Metropolis design :whatsthis
Goblinhorde
11-26-03, 10:20 PM Thrashmage, thats really good advice. Thanks. Thanks for the link Jakubius. I have A Magical Medieval Society and I felt the book was lacking in city information. Any more comments and suggestions?
Aranamarunda
11-27-03, 08:40 AM I have been working on a Excel City Generator for quite some time now, but I do not know how to put it on the internet anywhere! With some help I might publish a rough model before long:)
jakubias
11-27-03, 09:46 AM JAKUBIAS! A!!!
Hehheheh... and after all... whatever which kind of city you plan, you players will see it like you planned it, like Trashmaster said, plan it with spark of "being pc" in your eyes...
Thrashmage
11-27-03, 04:04 PM Originally posted by Aranamarunda
I have been working on a Excel City Generator for quite some time now, but I do not know how to put it on the internet anywhere! With some help I might publish a rough model before long:)

I love Excel - I built an Excel file to keep track of all the NPCs I created for my city. It adds up each race, each class, keeps running totals of how many are in the city, how many are left to build (following the DMG city building numbers), etc. It also totals the percentages in each district of the city, letting me know how many of each race are in a single section, or what each section is percentage wise in population compared to the whole city. It's a pretty handy thing!
Aranamarunda
11-28-03, 07:13 AM Well... Mine let's you see how many, for example, dwarves are in a city, and then devides those numbers in male and female. After that in children, adults and elders, and after that in working, not working, parental duties and studying. And after that in a profession, wich differs in common, uncommon and rare professions. And still after that, if they are in a guild or an underground movement, or non. You can also say if the economy is good or bad, if the city is rich or poor. if it lies at sea or inland, Total studying population modifies the number of experts, You can say how guild infested your city is, which one is the main alignment, and you can even modify the city or specific wishes, like having only children live there. You can also alter the male/female ratio. And so on, and so on.:)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Goblinhorde 11-26-03, 02:53 AM	I'm building a campaign set in the Kingdoms of Kalamar setting. I have already decided that I want most of the campaign to occur in Bet Kalamar. The largest city on Tellene. Over 300 thousand people are there. Now heres my problem. I've never built a city the size of Bet Kalamar before. Its a lot more difficult than I realized. I'm writing information on the poor quarter and all I've really got is a few temples, some shops and Inns and a thieves guild. I feel like I need more information. I need some ideas, and some methods for building a city the size of Bet Kalamar. What kind of information do I need? How do I make the city seem exciting and alive? I'd also like to hear from people who have ran entire campaigns inside a city. How'd it go? Any suggestions and comments are welcome. Thanks in advance
jakubias 11-26-03, 03:33 AM	Hmmm... Try this D&D DM's GUIDE 3.5 WEB ENCHANCEMENT http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20030719a THERE's stuff about building different districts.... i used it when i designed my own version about FR's Waterdeep.... quite nice... Try also if you have new 3.5 dm guide looking for little section about urban adventures... some small guidelines. Also, while in big city, organized crime leagues are quite common threat so u might try adventure about those. Possible campaign might consider also some politics (ofcourse depending on the way you play) if Pc's are mid or high level charachters. Low levels in politics don't somehow sound quite realistic or something. Upcoming LoTR III return of the king has the epic fight outside MInas Tirith, if you want to (it quite a risk) you could plan a ultimate climax of your campaign on a battle of 100 000 men strenght. campaign in big metropolis depends much about the style of your game. If u play kind of Hack n' Slash, it's not a stupid idea to put a huge ancient necropolis under your city. Kicking some skeletal but is allways fun, or as long as you have mighty cleric in your posse.
Thrashmage 11-26-03, 11:36 AM	When I began building a campaign for a metropolis, I started by getting a VERY rough idea of what areas there are. Then I used the above-suggested district building to help break those areas down (not completely, but some). That gave a beginning framework to the city I could begin to inhabit. I started thinking from the PCs perspective. What are they going to want to do? I figured they'd want various items and supplies, so I created multiple places they could go, with subtle differences. Like buying weapons from three different places, where one is average quality, one specializes in Dwarven hammers, and the third is great with exotic weapons. You could buy a longsword in all three, but they each had their own flavor. Make a shopowner for each of them (all unique), and viola, you've got a city's worth of weapon shops. It's not that all three would account for the whole city's weapons, but it does give the idea to the PCs that there are options in a big city that small towns just don't have. You don't want to overwhelm your players with 50 options. Give them three main ones, and if you need a smaller one or a super-specialized one, that's what you can craft on the fly. Now do the same with anything else you think they'll need or want. A bar? I've got a popular one in the common district that is also a temple of Olidammara, an upscale one in the rich part of town, a dance hall in the monstrous quarter, and a neighborhood one in the theatre district. They're not that close together, but this way whatever part of town the PCs are in, they can have a bar where everybody knows their name. Have fun!
Bluebrush 11-26-03, 12:01 PM	Originally posted by jakubias Hmmm... Try this D&D DM's GUIDE 3.5 WEB ENCHANCEMENT http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20030719a THERE's stuff about building different districts.... i used it when i designed my own version about FR's Waterdeep.... quite nice... Hmm, almost off topic, but when they say "an area has a population of 450", do they mean people who actually live there or just people who will be there as part of a normal day? Cause otherwise, those two lodgings in the Market place district are going to have about 225 people living in each. Of course, maybe they're assuming people all live in their own shops and such. Yeah, that's probably it...
jakubias 11-26-03, 12:55 PM	Ye, ppl live upstairs their houses. In medieval metropolis there are buildings 3-5 floors height. Start from some clear things that will dominate the landscape. For example, if that city has a port, you could design a huge lighthouse which can be seen miles away, or a grand statue for Deity who's worshipped there??
Shayde 11-26-03, 01:16 PM	The best advice I can give is not to do everything at once, I have been putting together an entire world and it makes no sense to know exactly what every shop and inn is called. I would start with half a dozen important locations for each district at most and then make up the rest as you go along.:tiphat:
jakubias 11-26-03, 01:20 PM	I agree with Shayde. Try also this http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=1678& It was orginally posted by DougC in Useful Dm links thread. You get free tome with good information. Well, i think that was all i had to say bout Metropolis design :whatsthis
Goblinhorde 11-26-03, 10:20 PM	Thrashmage, thats really good advice. Thanks. Thanks for the link Jakubius. I have A Magical Medieval Society and I felt the book was lacking in city information. Any more comments and suggestions?
Aranamarunda 11-27-03, 08:40 AM	I have been working on a Excel City Generator for quite some time now, but I do not know how to put it on the internet anywhere! With some help I might publish a rough model before long:)
jakubias 11-27-03, 09:46 AM	JAKUBIAS! A!!! Hehheheh... and after all... whatever which kind of city you plan, you players will see it like you planned it, like Trashmaster said, plan it with spark of "being pc" in your eyes...
Thrashmage 11-27-03, 04:04 PM	Originally posted by Aranamarunda I have been working on a Excel City Generator for quite some time now, but I do not know how to put it on the internet anywhere! With some help I might publish a rough model before long:) I love Excel - I built an Excel file to keep track of all the NPCs I created for my city. It adds up each race, each class, keeps running totals of how many are in the city, how many are left to build (following the DMG city building numbers), etc. It also totals the percentages in each district of the city, letting me know how many of each race are in a single section, or what each section is percentage wise in population compared to the whole city. It's a pretty handy thing!
Aranamarunda 11-28-03, 07:13 AM	Well... Mine let's you see how many, for example, dwarves are in a city, and then devides those numbers in male and female. After that in children, adults and elders, and after that in working, not working, parental duties and studying. And after that in a profession, wich differs in common, uncommon and rare professions. And still after that, if they are in a guild or an underground movement, or non. You can also say if the economy is good or bad, if the city is rich or poor. if it lies at sea or inland, Total studying population modifies the number of experts, You can say how guild infested your city is, which one is the main alignment, and you can even modify the city or specific wishes, like having only children live there. You can also alter the male/female ratio. And so on, and so on.:)