Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aishar 10-18-05, 01:42 PM	I'm trying to build up a metropolis for my world, a city with highly strict laws, where the chief and almost only deity is Hextor. The city might not be evil, the rulers just believe that firm laws and a death sentence to those who perform the tiniest crime is the one and only way existing for a powerful city. Anyway, I have the general concept in my mind, but I need help in populating the map: what organizations, societies and guilds exist within the city (legal and illegal)? What sort of places will the city contain? What can I do to spice up the city? I really only thought about the ruler of the city, the law enforcement, and the temple of Hextor, so I haven't been able to think of much else. Any help should be appreciated.... Aishar.
Moon-drake 10-18-05, 01:50 PM	How about an undercity(you could take modern cities and change them to fantasy cities for ideas) where some kind of brutal, orkish hourde terrorise civilians during the debths of night and loot gold from the city vaults. Basicly they cause havoc. This would give the law enforcement a tireless fight against evil. You could create a campaign where you could choose from two sides of the law. One side a cheerful market place, the other a fiendish gathering of ugly creeps and brutal monsters crowding and fighting into the centre of the black market. You get the idea? :P
Moon-drake 10-18-05, 01:58 PM	Another idea would be to add a rebelion where many brave and couragous Metropolitans stood up to the law and faught to chand this brutal law into a place where pety crimes where no longer charged as the same thing as murder.
prettyripples 10-18-05, 02:05 PM	1. Grab a sheet of paper 2. Draw a map of the area around the city. I want to see rivers, hills, oceans, and major roads. 3. Now you know what's around - I want you to think of 4-6 "areas" for your city. Examples: Market square. Dockside. Gnomish quarter. Hill where all the rich people live. Temple district. 4. Put these on the map. 5. I'd guess things would be easier from here on in - the docks get warehouses, piers and taverns; the markets (usually more than one, say a meat and a fish and a crafts etc) are surrounded by places to eat, and all the shops of skilled workers (like blacksmiths); if there was a river, there might be an industrial section near that, full of everyone who wants a waterwheel; the rich district could be full of salons and theatres. 6. Time for finishing touches. Place your town hall, magistrates' court, and major temples (if you haven't already); add a mayor's house if you want it; prisons, guardhouses, guard head office; then draw in the major roads. Goods have to get from the docks to the markets every day, so there'll be a big one there. A road from the main city gates to the town hall. Perhaps another from the town hall to the temple of Hextor. Those two are useful for processions. You have a city!
Aishar 10-18-05, 02:07 PM	I was thinking of something less earth-shaking. I don't want a large-scale event going on in the city, I want ideas for buildings, locales and places within the city, as well as optional guilds, organization, orders, etc. Remember, I already integrated the idea of the city into my campaign, and the PCs'll be there in a week or so, so I want to fill in some more details. Thanks, anyway.
Bloodhawk 10-18-05, 02:10 PM	Wow!, this could be a large task, but also one of your most rewarding Cities have structure and design as well as large amounts of freeform or "it just popped up" in them. Look at this for example: How much influence will the merchant class have ?? will they be powerful enough to have influence with the city's ruling class ?? will they be ok as individual guilds (guild of merchants or glassmakers guild) or will they need to band together (a master guild of merchant lords) Who will run the day-to-day operations of the city ?? will they be goverment owned or contracted to companies within the city ?? look at something as simple as lighting the street lanterns at dusk, this could be done by a small unit of the city watch (lawful order of lamplighters) or a contracted company under a writ of work signed by a lord (Pettins Lighters) or known simply as (The Lighters) Hamlets, Thorps, Villages, Towns and Cities all need things done and someone to do them. This is a excellent way to give something tangible to your creation, Spend some time and develope the resources within the city My personal opnion is that most cities are like a table with four support "legs" 1. the ruling class-either royalty or a elected council 2. the citizens themselves 3. the underworld-thieves guilds, rulers in exile, spies ect. 4. the people that get things done-guilds, orders, craftspeople combine these and your PC's will fit right in Good luck Bloodhawk
Aishar 10-18-05, 02:11 PM	1. Grab a sheet of paper 2. Draw a map of the area around the city. I want to see rivers, hills, oceans, and major roads. 3. Now you know what's around - I want you to think of 4-6 "areas" for your city. Examples: Market square. Dockside. Gnomish quarter. Hill where all the rich people live. Temple district. 4. Put these on the map. 5. I'd guess things would be easier from here on in - the docks get warehouses, piers and taverns; the markets (usually more than one, say a meat and a fish and a crafts etc) are surrounded by places to eat, and all the shops of skilled workers (like blacksmiths); if there was a river, there might be an industrial section near that, full of everyone who wants a waterwheel; the rich district could be full of salons and theatres. 6. Time for finishing touches. Place your town hall, magistrates' court, and major temples (if you haven't already); add a mayor's house if you want it; prisons, guardhouses, guard head office; then draw in the major roads. Goods have to get from the docks to the markets every day, so there'll be a big one there. A road from the main city gates to the town hall. Perhaps another from the town hall to the temple of Hextor. Those two are useful for processions. You have a city! You guys didn't really understand me. The city's already planned out and half-mapped, and I need interesting places and guilds to put in it. If you need more details, my city is located on one of the Empire's main trade routes, in a plain terrain which is completely flat. In the city's center there's the Inner City, blocked by a high wall, where the King's Palace, the temples, the nobles' estates, etc. are placed. No foreigners or poor-class people are allowed there. Apart from that there's the Outer City. Thanks again...
Illion the Red 10-18-05, 02:16 PM	A city with this strong of a law enforcement scheme would have to have very strong individuals and groups to maintain and enforce the laws (especially in a metropolis). Therefore, there should be "enforcement" guilds of mages, clerics/paladins, and (if you have them in your campaign) psions. These should be in addition to the typical guards - who should be anything but typical. In order to maintain such strict order, they might employ some rather unique guards. They might even have a few ineveitables running around. Certainly, the average guard would be at least a 3rd level warrior and walk around in groups of no less than five. The guards should have means for calling in reinforcements if they run into something beyond them. You might even have groups of undercover guards wandering around the city with permanant detect thoughts, invisibility, magic, and detect alignment effects. They would watch anyone they find suspicious in thought, alignment, or act and spread word amongst the guards of them. This would make rings of mind shielding one of the hottest items on the black market and probably illegal to produce or sell.
prettyripples 10-18-05, 02:21 PM	In terms of guilds, if you've ever read any Terry Pratchett books, then Ankh-Morpork sounds just like what you're looking for. Re-read one of the Sam Vimes books and you'll have all the guilds you need, complete with politiking lords and unscrupulous rascals - usual the same person - leading them. If that goes straight over your head, then here a are few basic guilds: Assassin's Guild. Honourable, Discreet, Expensive, Deadly. Theif's Guild. They run a protection racket: pay us and you won't be robbed. If a non-member steals something, the Guild will try to kill him - or at least make him regret it. Seamstresses Guild. For the prostitutes (either just the unattached ones, or the brothels as well). They pay fighters to keep prostitutes safe, in exchange for a percentage of the profits. Now, a major choice: Traders/Merchants' Guild, OR, lots of little ones (like Tailors' Guild and Fishermen's Guild), OR both at once. --------------- That does for the slightly-official ones - and yes, the Assasins are at least vaguely legal, because they're used by the rich, who run the city. They're probably seen as an extension of the legal system in some cases. Of course, you may decide to remove them anyway, as this is a very lawful city. But someone will still want to use them, I'm thinking... Next: Mafia. A three-way conflict works well here: pick two types of Mafia, and they can rub shoulders with each other and the semi-legal Theives' Guild. Give each one a distinct flavour, but try to avoid Italian if you can because it's too cliched. You could have the brutes (think breaking fingers in gloomy rooms), and the drug-smugglers (they live on the dockside, and peddle dope in various forms - no-one touches them 'cause they're too rich), for example. That should more or less do - pick 'n' mix as you desire.
Aliquid 10-18-05, 02:23 PM	A huge strict legal system needs lots of people and lots of funding for it to work. There will probably be severe taxes, tolls, and fees all over the place. Maybe the players will have to pay a "toll" to enter the city. The people who live in the city need some sort of reason to be staying there... strict laws and high taxes might make people want to move away. Maybe the city should be very prosperous, with lots of good high paying jobs. Although, you would need some reason for the city to be prosperous, some good source of income. Maybe a few high level wizards/sorcerers have created some sort of intense merchants guild, where they constantly teleport trade-goods to and from remote places, making huge profits in the process.
Stev Beren 10-18-05, 02:26 PM	Everyone has a "District" and they are required to carry identification from that district at all times. You are only allowed to be out of your district during specific hours, say sunup to sundown, and by sundown need to be back in your 'district'. For purposes of foreign merchants and the like there is probably a 'foreigners' district. Being caught in the wrong district after dark is a punishable offense of some sort. THe various districts woudl have gates between them. . Perhaps some sort of obligatory 'Government service' for 'all adult males between the age of X and X' which also serves as a sort of indoctirnation? Might be stricter than you were thinking. .
Bloodhawk 10-18-05, 02:55 PM	Here is another option So far you have created from the top down, Big ruler-Harsh Laws-Enforcement-Criminal Punishment, now do this in reverse to fill in the small details You said the PC's will be there in a week so start with where they will go fitst a tavern/inn. The Golden Goblin Just inside the city gates within arrow shot of the walls is The Golden Goblin, right where the guard told you it would be. A large rambling four story structure built of stone and wood with a sign hanging above the door depicting a dancing goblin painted a garish golden color. Though the paint appears to be peeling and the building somewhat aged overall it appears to be in good condition and more importantly warm and dry! Inside the massive front door you see many tables and stools, some mis-matched, but all comfortable enough for a group that has only been sitting in saddles for much too long. "Welcome friends" booms a loud voice from behind the bar, as you turn you see possibly the tallest dwarf you have ever seen. "Come in and sit, from your looks you have travled far." as he moves from behind the bar he descends from cleverly concelled steps to come into the common area. "I'm Agar Rockjaw, owner and operator of The Golden Goblin com and rest what can I get for you." The kitchen doors behind Agar opens and the room is filled with the smell of fried and spiced potatoes, many of the staff seem busy preparing the evening meal. "Grab a seat by the fire and I'll bring something to drink." he waves his hand to the massive hearth dominating the far side of the room. As you sit and look around the room you notice the wood is all polished and the floors clean, the inn looks first rate and the fire is warm, you feel relaxed for the first time in a long time. Now you can fill in whatever you want and build from this was Agar a former adventurer can he reccomend a good seller of merchandise ? is he really a spy for the enforcers keeping riff-raf out of the city ? Like I said build it in reverse and go from small to large, sometines the details just flow faster that way !!! Good luck Bloodhawk
mike_beavers 10-18-05, 03:10 PM	Don't forget the more mundane things like butchers guild, goldsmith guild, streetsweepers guild etc. Guild influence can do lots of things politically. You can also have wards like chicago that are run by aldermen, who are elected on a regular basis. How strong is the police force and is there corruption within. A list of strong or powerful npcs with characteristics and the part of the city which they inhabit is important as well as location of the city. Is in on a coast, a river or in the mountains? All these are important to the feel and tenor of the city
Aliquid 10-18-05, 03:44 PM	Don't forget the more mundane things like butchers guild, goldsmith guild, streetsweepers guild etc. Guild influence can do lots of things politically. You can also have wards like chicago that are run by aldermen, who are elected on a regular basis.And considering you have a very strict city, I think there should be strict rules about being part of a guild. For example, you will be arrested if you are seen sweeping the street and you are not part of the streetsweeper's guild. It doesn't matter if you are just cleaning the street in front of your shop, you are not allowed if you are not part of the guild.
scott644 10-18-05, 04:31 PM	A lawful city, with a perspective that tends toward evil (though it isn't necessarily there). A big one too. That means an entire (read; small nation-sized) culture between the walls. You'll have your stratified cultural aspects, including ruling class, the middle class, the working class, the peasant class, and the outcaste. Ruling class would be nobles, major guild leaders (bards, merchants, and so on), ranking religious officials (of Hextor, others would have a difficult time getting or staying at the top), and ranking military officials. They would live in expensive homes, temples, or richly appointed quarters. They would have a few very expensive places of entertainment; a performance hall or two, a library, a couple schools (magic and mundane), and perhaps a private gardens district. Middle class are the wealthy or very skilled working class. They would be your wealthy merchants, disenfranchised nobles, skilled artisans, members of major guilds, leaders of minor guilds (messengers' guild, blacksmiths' guild, weavers' guild, etcetera), lesser religious officials (of Hextor - greater religious officials of other deities), and most military officers. They would live in expensive (the wealthiest merchants) to modest (the artisans) homes, temples, or the better of the military quarters. They would be the driving force behind most events in the market and would effectively run all the temples and businesses the party would encounter, as well as being the ones in charge of the day-to-day business of most significant military posts in the city. Think in terms of a couple market squares with many shops around them, a single temple to Hextor, and stalls in the center. The officers would be at the city gatehouses and other strategic locations. The wealthier guilds would have significant guild houses that likely sit near the markets and offer rich storefronts. The lesser guilds would have a simple house or maybe just meet at a tavern once in a while. Establishments would include nice taverns, slave-traders' compounds, small temples (not of Hextor), a few minor schools, and so on. The working class are those craftsmen and artisans who are skilled, but not wealthy or influential. They are also your typical soldiers and clergy in training. Their homes would be the more modestly appointed of modest homes, or barracks. They would be the ones running the stalls at the markets, or out-of-the-way shops on side streets. They'd be running the innumerable taverns ane inns that would cater the immense press of people needing food and a place to stay. These would present the majority of members of low rank in the guilds. This is where the common tutor-style training for the lower levels of most adventuring classes would be found, as well as the shrines of most non-Hextor deities. The peasant class are the source of the commoner NPC class. They do the unskilled dirty work nobody else will touch. They're the laborers, cooks, farmers, runners, and so on. Modest would be a compliment for most of the places where they live, and their neighborhoods would be a maze of narrow streets and alleys behind and between the major byways. Cheap taverns, stables, and so on are here. The outcaste are the criminal element. They will not have a set location, job, or lifestyle. They would have secret locations where they meet and do their business, smuggling, thieving, fencing goods, and worse. Some of them would be open about it, living relatively well in the peasant neighborhoods where most sane guardsmen would refuse to patrol. Others might be shopkeepers of other professions, dabbling (or more) in the traffic of stolen goods. Some would be smugglers, trying to get things in and out of the city without the city guards noticing - they would know the secret compartments in vehicles, and passages through/under/over/around the city walls. Some would be the actual eyes and ears of the criminal organization(s) that govern the illegal activities of the city. A few (the assassins, for instance) would probably be in direct contact with some of the higher classes (Hextor would have an occasional use for such stone killers). Most ironic, the clergy and followers of any sects worshipping known enemies of Hextor would probably be in this class - hunted down and "purged" as corrupting influences whenever and wherever possible. The sewers, river (if there is one), a couple inns and stables, and a fair number of shops around the community, would all be likely spots to come into contact with this segment of the community. Does this help any?
pierow37 10-18-05, 04:46 PM	i was thinking as i was getting ready for bed one nitght of a guild that makes their huts and underground lids at signposts... the build small 4'x6'xf'.... they enforced the walls with wooden barracades... and the entracne and exit was a small trap door with a permanit illusion to look like the ground, with grass and other dirt things... rock etc... when they heard a footstep on their opening they iwll wait 5 seconds then pop out leaving the enemy flat footed, and also stricking with 2 arrow shots... then they would go back in, and when they were found again, they would draw their swords and stab anyone who reached in their little pocket thing so yah... that could be a netorious crimanal gang the city has been after for a logn time... idk... mayb u can use it mayb not... who knows... but GOOD LUCK! :)
Gedrin 10-18-05, 05:08 PM	One of the most influential guilds would be the lawyers. See, if you break the law, you die. So, since everyone being in the "not wanting to die" market, they consult with this guild to make certain that all their dealings are within the bounds of law. Of course, if your authoritarian tyrnany owns everything of importance and power, or doesn't feel it should be held to the same laws as those it rules, this guild wouldn't exist. Since this is the usual situation, you might want to chuck that idea entirely. In fact, brutal tyranies tend not to want large power groups that are not under their direct control. Guilds are power groups, and authoritarian governments tend to want all the power and authority for themselves. If you want to get the feel of your city across, I'd recomend moving away from guilds in the traditional sense, to orginizations that are government controlled. There may be a Textiles Guild, but the fact of the matter is that the "Guildmaster" is appointed by the government and the guild fees are basically taxes. There is a lot of information around about how tyranical governments orginize things. Take a look at some of this and go form there. Don't forget your military, secret police and propaganda arms. These instituions will likely have a disproportionate effect on the city. Finally, there WILL be a black market in some form. If control is strict, it will be very covert or very informal. If control has begun to degrade over time, it will be more open, as more and more of the authorities are bribed or otherwise drawn into the market.
Androcus Divinicus 10-18-05, 07:59 PM	Hm. Have you tried the DMG web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20030719a)? I found it very helpful for populating my cities. Regards, Justin.
DungeonMaster_35 10-18-05, 08:02 PM	I think you have the potential for a great city here. If the laws are strict, you could a secret underground guild controlled by the clerics of Hextor. This guild would secretly elimate any prominent non-believers as well as enforce the will of the Grand Court of Hextor or whatever. You don't however, want to have your church of Hextor too prominent in the city, (well, it really depends how corrupt your Empire is) otherwise your players might start asking questions about why the church is allowed to operate openly and so forth (I hate when my players do this). Furthermore, you could have a group of underground freedom fighters of Heironious in the city to create some kind of hook for your players (perhaps to infiltrate the Inner City and assassinate someone etc.). However, if your players are evil, the church of Hextor could hire them to kill off certain key agentsof the freedom fighters. Also, if your players are high level, and excellent way to challenge them is to throw elite agents of Hextor at them or something like that. The freedom fighters could have a base in the sewers, there could be monsters in the sewers, and so forth. You also have to remember that a Metropolis is a very large city, and holding sway over it could be a difficult task. Take this factor into account when designing the city. Another tip, I personally hate drawing maps, but its a great way to start and I think its good that your doing that. I have a two page extensive list of guild and organization names ready for my campaign and would be happy to share this list with you as well as more ideas about guilds because I love designing them. Post another message if you wish to see this list.
talkingbeatles 10-18-05, 08:20 PM	Dude, add a brothel.
Styer 10-18-05, 09:01 PM	In a city with capital punishment for nearly any crime you might see a high murder rate as criminals try to dispose of witnesses to smaller crimes.
Aishar 10-19-05, 01:42 AM	OK, lets look at it the other way... What possible organizations or prestige classes from the D&D books can I place in the city? I though about a group of Cvaliers (from C. Warrior) who serve as the King's elite, for example. More ideas are welcome.... Aishar
kajinoryu 10-19-05, 04:14 AM	A six-armed god of war, conflict, and destruction is sure to have some sort of colliseum in his metropolis IMO. Places of public torture to show what one would have to do for the mere theft of a few crumbs, or a merchant's cart full of goods. The prisoners could even fight to settle disputes amonst a parliament or noble society since aggression in a physical way is surely outlawed to maintain a strict society. I can also see merc guilds dedicated to political subterfuge since outward violence is sure to be punished. People hired by others to inspire chaos into the heirarchy and subsequently rain punushment upon those lower in the chain that the misinformation was fed. A caste system would be a viable addition as well. Keep the paupers from the princes... and the merchants, and the servants/slaves, and the politically endeavorous, and the cat... etc. Almost anything you could see in a society of devils. Favors owed here and there, a system of stature that's so complicated it seems boggling to the outside mind. The higher ups hidden behind layers of thier indentured. All we're really looking for is a metropolis with corrupt politicians.
Kadasbrass 10-19-05, 12:43 PM	I would suggest you to take a look at CH 4 (and CH 3 to a lesser degree) in the DMGII for ideas. The city of Saltmarsh is an example of the detailed city your looking for. Here's a one ideas for you. The Drunken Kobold This famous tavern was co-founded by a twisted wizard who loved using transforming spells. The tavern gets it name because along one side of the door is a large 10 ft (4 ft radius) tall mug of beer with a kobold in it. The kobold is real, but has been magically altered so that it can only breath beer in the manner a fish breaths water. The mug is connected to a large fish bowl shaped lair underground (the Kobolds home), and the visible to both inside the tavern and outside. The owners will let patrons feed the kobold since locals consider it good luck.