Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Griff 07-06-06, 10:21 AM	Hi all, i just got the draconomicon, and my 6 (very well equipped and reasonablly powered) PC's have decided to reclaim a lost Dwarven treasure vault. there is a dragon there (Cliche i know), now i would like this dragon to be a brutal and efficient killing machine like all dragons should be, but ulimatly lose and become a nemisis type NPC. young adult black dragon btw upon reading the Draconomicon i found a disturbing and exciting thing, metabreath feats. particularly Clinging Breath, (foes damaged by the breath weapon take half damage again next round) Lingering breath, (makes a cloud that deals the half the breath weapons normal damage again for one round) heighten breath, (boosts the DC buy +1) maximise breath: (like maximise spell) now what worried me was that all these (except maximise) are stackable just by increasing the amount of time between breaths, in short by breathing only once per combat, per hour or per day, Draco can have an unsavable maximsed breath weapon that stays in the area indefinatly (blocking the entrance to his lair) that sticks to the skin of the PC's doing damage for the next 50 rounds. i have three questions, 1: does the damage for clinging breath keep halving each extra round, 2: is ther a limit to how much you cant boost everything, {EDIT: there is a limit to heighten breath: Draco's con bonus} 3; isn't that broken???? 40 damage is all it does but still, (if it was a red its almost double) {EDIT: ok so the limit to height breath makes it a little less hideous}
Griff 07-06-06, 11:02 AM	or couple that with a grapple and possibly quicken breath (in the place of maximise breath) Awww the clerics stuck in a grapple at the end of the corridor surounded by an unsavable cloud of acid thats making life hell for everyone... :weep: and everyones taking damage again from Clinging breath... more questions also, will damge from clinging breath stack with lingering breath and if somone walks back into the lingering breath do they then get it clinging on to them (im guessing and currently ruling no to both of these but i culd be wrong)
Neo_Leviathan 07-06-06, 11:21 AM	I'd have to check the rules again, but can't you only apply each metabreath feat once per breath? Unless specifically stated, obviously.
Griff 07-06-06, 11:45 AM	nope clinging breath and lingering breath can be applied multiple times.(seemingly with no upper limit) and by checking again i've answered my heighten breath question, its only up to +(con bonus) to DC.
Thessik 07-06-06, 04:51 PM	I say let the party have it. Make the nastiest killer dragon you can. Balanced, of course. You probably don't want to customize the dragon too much for PC killing. Keep in mind what other threats the beast would have to deal with on a regular basis, and pick feats accordingly. I recently used a large blue dragon that scared the crap out of my players. All it took was Dire Charge and the quicker breath weapon recharge feat. Even the half-ogre warhulk was impressed. :D
Archmage Atrus 07-06-06, 05:41 PM	I'd be careful - the Draconomicon isn't exactly the most balanced book out there. Useful, and lots of good draconic ideas, but the metabreath feats especially proved to be problematic in my game.
Encard 07-06-06, 06:11 PM	Eh... Use the feats, but don't get too silly with them. Metabreath feats are one of those things that work ok for PCs with a breath weapon, but far too well for monsters who - unlike PCs - only need to have access to their breath long enough to kill the party.
Morwen 07-06-06, 07:10 PM	There is no stacking limitations apart from that each feat sets for itself. I don't really find this to be a problem, as Dragons are the ultimate monster for the D&D game :) Remember though, that metabreath feats are feats, and so taking many of them really limits what other feats the Dragon has. It all balances out in the end.
Mesraic 07-06-06, 07:23 PM	Also remember that if your party is balanced out and is pretty powerful as youve said then their going to have protection from energy or resist energy. Which will lessenand ultimatly make pointless the clinging and lingering breath feats.
was_fired 07-06-06, 07:40 PM	Yeah the metabreath feats weren't too well thought out. Heighten breath is fine, but maximize and clinging are too good. Lingering isn't all that bad since it at least gives the PCs a chance to move out of the area.
Bane 07-06-06, 09:54 PM	Consider, a Black dragon breaths in a line. You'll probably kill one or two PC's with the breath weapon, but then you don't have any other feats, and you don't get to use your breath weapon again for a long time. Personally, I'd take more of the melee combat feats, including Large and In Charge. Shred the buggers. This also makes things fairer, from the point of view that you're basically hitting them with a save or die spell with a evil save DC your way. My way is probably more likely to result in TPK, but it'll be a much more fun TPK. Also, the Metabreath Nuke is a bad idea from the dragons point of view. If the real adventurers just sent in fodder, and you blow everything on crushing them with extreme prejudice, where are you when the real adventurers walk in?
TheSkinnySkeleton 07-07-06, 12:20 AM	Agreed. You're better off taking other feats that are usable every round, instead of relying on your breath weapon. A particularily deadly combo is: Flyby Attack, Androit Attack, Snatch, and Multisnatch. You can do flyby attacks, snatch a PC up, fly far away from the rest of the party, and fling him somewhere to be dealt with later. Alternatively, fly up to the party, make a full attack, snatch 3 PCs up, and fly off to scatter them around. You'll be surprised how helpless PCs are when they can't work together.....