Building Base Attack/Grapple - Help! - [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building Base Attack/Grapple - Help! - [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Decepticons
06-27-04, 03:11 PM After reading through the (seemingly) appropriate sections of the MM and DMG a few times, I'm still having trouble determining exactly how base attack and grapple bonuses are calculated. I'm aware that Strength bonus, Hit Dice and Size are involved (but not certain exactly how...right now I'm assuming strength bonus is calculated as normal, that base attack is determied by the creatures hit die type and don't know where to find a chart that tells me how size effects BAB).

If someone could help me out here I'd appreciate it. If possible, please cite the pages/books you're using so I can look it up myself and get it figured out.

Thanks in advance.
Lord Crimson
06-27-04, 03:31 PM Strength bonus is normal. Base attack bonuses are calculated by class or creature type (all bonuses add together to create a single BAB). The size chart is in the combat section of the PHB.

My question is this: You've read the "(seemingly) appropriate sections of the MM and DMG" but have you ACTUALLY READ the PHB? Most of the combat rules are in there. That's why it's called "Core Rulebook 1."
Glak
06-27-04, 03:36 PM except that you DON'T use the size chart for grapple. You instead use +/- 4 for each category above/below medium.

Here is what you need to do (all this is in the PHB (which is btw the one book you need to know most to be DM):

find out how to calculate base attack bonus first

then figure out how to figure out grapple from there (it requires knowing the creature's base attack bonus)
Ander00
06-27-04, 03:37 PM Grapple bonus = Base Attack (depending on your class levels and the number and type of HD, see the Monster Manual on page 290 for a neat table) + Strength bonus (or penalty, if Strength is lower than 10) + size bonus (or penalty, basically +/- 4 for every step in size above or below medium, from -16 for Fine to +16 for Colossal).

cheers
Decepticons
06-27-04, 03:39 PM While I've been DM'ing for quite awhile, I have very little experience building new monsters from the ground up under the new 3.5 rule set (or the 3.0 set). There are a lot more "rules" that go into building a 3.x monster than there were for the 2.0 rule set. I'm sort of learning as I go here, so forgive me if I've missed something in a rulebook somewhere along the way.

So, if a monster had 11d8 Hit Dice, it would basically use the same BAB as an 11th level cleric (plus it's strength and size of course)?
Lord Crimson
06-27-04, 03:51 PM Depends upon the creature's TYPE. For example, an 11d8 HUMANOID monster would indeed gain a BAB equal to a cleric of the same level. On the other hand, a MONSTROUS HUMANOID monster would instead gain a BAB equal to a fighter of the same level.

These little tidbits are listed in the glossary in the back of the 3.5 MM. They give BAB and the default "strong/weak" saving throws for each type of creature, as well as default skill points, special abilities that apply to all such creatures (like darkvision), and base proficiencies.
Decepticons
06-27-04, 03:57 PM Ha, found that chart just as you posted. Thanks for the help guys.

So now let me check my math:

I have a large ousider with 12d8 Hit Dice and a 25 Strength, thus it's overall Attack would be (assuming no weapon modifiers or focii)

Base: +12
Strength: +7
Size: +1
=
20?
Ander00
06-27-04, 10:27 PM As has been said, it's +/- 4 per size cathegory above or below medium. Thus the total would be 23 in this case. Other than that, it is correct.

cheers
Inigo Carmine
06-27-04, 11:08 PM Originally posted by Decepticons
I have a large ousider with 12d8 Hit Dice and a 25 Strength, thus it's overall Attack would be (assuming no weapon modifiers or focii)

Base: +12
Strength: +7
Size: +1
=
20?

close, 18. Being bigger than medium is actually a detriment for attack modifiers. You subtract one instead of adding it.

Originally posted by Ander00
As has been said, it's +/- 4 per size cathegory above or below medium. Thus the total would be 23 in this case. Other than that, it is correct.

For grapple that's correct. He said it was for it's attack though.
Ander00
06-28-04, 11:02 AM Yeah, oops, looks like I'm not too perceptive at 5 am. I thought he was still going on about grappling ;).

cheers

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Decepticons 06-27-04, 03:11 PM	After reading through the (seemingly) appropriate sections of the MM and DMG a few times, I'm still having trouble determining exactly how base attack and grapple bonuses are calculated. I'm aware that Strength bonus, Hit Dice and Size are involved (but not certain exactly how...right now I'm assuming strength bonus is calculated as normal, that base attack is determied by the creatures hit die type and don't know where to find a chart that tells me how size effects BAB). If someone could help me out here I'd appreciate it. If possible, please cite the pages/books you're using so I can look it up myself and get it figured out. Thanks in advance.
Lord Crimson 06-27-04, 03:31 PM	Strength bonus is normal. Base attack bonuses are calculated by class or creature type (all bonuses add together to create a single BAB). The size chart is in the combat section of the PHB. My question is this: You've read the "(seemingly) appropriate sections of the MM and DMG" but have you ACTUALLY READ the PHB? Most of the combat rules are in there. That's why it's called "Core Rulebook 1."
Glak 06-27-04, 03:36 PM	except that you DON'T use the size chart for grapple. You instead use +/- 4 for each category above/below medium. Here is what you need to do (all this is in the PHB (which is btw the one book you need to know most to be DM): find out how to calculate base attack bonus first then figure out how to figure out grapple from there (it requires knowing the creature's base attack bonus)
Ander00 06-27-04, 03:37 PM	Grapple bonus = Base Attack (depending on your class levels and the number and type of HD, see the Monster Manual on page 290 for a neat table) + Strength bonus (or penalty, if Strength is lower than 10) + size bonus (or penalty, basically +/- 4 for every step in size above or below medium, from -16 for Fine to +16 for Colossal). cheers
Decepticons 06-27-04, 03:39 PM	While I've been DM'ing for quite awhile, I have very little experience building new monsters from the ground up under the new 3.5 rule set (or the 3.0 set). There are a lot more "rules" that go into building a 3.x monster than there were for the 2.0 rule set. I'm sort of learning as I go here, so forgive me if I've missed something in a rulebook somewhere along the way. So, if a monster had 11d8 Hit Dice, it would basically use the same BAB as an 11th level cleric (plus it's strength and size of course)?
Lord Crimson 06-27-04, 03:51 PM	Depends upon the creature's TYPE. For example, an 11d8 HUMANOID monster would indeed gain a BAB equal to a cleric of the same level. On the other hand, a MONSTROUS HUMANOID monster would instead gain a BAB equal to a fighter of the same level. These little tidbits are listed in the glossary in the back of the 3.5 MM. They give BAB and the default "strong/weak" saving throws for each type of creature, as well as default skill points, special abilities that apply to all such creatures (like darkvision), and base proficiencies.
Decepticons 06-27-04, 03:57 PM	Ha, found that chart just as you posted. Thanks for the help guys. So now let me check my math: I have a large ousider with 12d8 Hit Dice and a 25 Strength, thus it's overall Attack would be (assuming no weapon modifiers or focii) Base: +12 Strength: +7 Size: +1 = 20?
Ander00 06-27-04, 10:27 PM	As has been said, it's +/- 4 per size cathegory above or below medium. Thus the total would be 23 in this case. Other than that, it is correct. cheers
Inigo Carmine 06-27-04, 11:08 PM	Originally posted by Decepticons I have a large ousider with 12d8 Hit Dice and a 25 Strength, thus it's overall Attack would be (assuming no weapon modifiers or focii) Base: +12 Strength: +7 Size: +1 = 20? close, 18. Being bigger than medium is actually a detriment for attack modifiers. You subtract one instead of adding it. Originally posted by Ander00 As has been said, it's +/- 4 per size cathegory above or below medium. Thus the total would be 23 in this case. Other than that, it is correct. For grapple that's correct. He said it was for it's attack though.
Ander00 06-28-04, 11:02 AM	Yeah, oops, looks like I'm not too perceptive at 5 am. I thought he was still going on about grappling ;). cheers