Burial Customs? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Burial Customs? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Callista
11-23-04, 01:59 PM I'll be having my players catch a murderer next session (tonight! eep!), and I realized I had never asked myself:

Question:

In a civilized gnomish town in a generic D&D setting, what might the procedure for burying the dead be? Specifically, where is the corpse from the time of death to the time of burial?

I would prefer an idea that allows the PCs to see the body (bodies, if they're slow) at some time or other, for the specific purpose of spells like Speak with Dead or Detect Poison.

From what I've heard, in medieval societies, burial was usually prompt; and the body, if it was anywhere, was usually somewhere in the family's house, prepared for burial by family. Some variation of this would be nice.

Of course there are no absolute answers, since this is my own setting. I'd appreciate ideas though.
Veton
11-23-04, 03:42 PM Well, as you said, it's your setting. Maybe people get buried a little later in your world.

Also, since these people were (presumably) murdered, their families or the leaders of the town may allow the PCs to cast the spells on the bodies, if they trust them to do it.
Cravensson
11-23-04, 03:52 PM Perhaps the Gnomes hold a wake, which basically means they sit up with the body for a couple of days before the body is carried to the church and buried.

Back when medical science was a little dodgy, it wasn't always easy to tell if somebody was dead, or just comatose. So they used to sit up with them a while in the hope that they would come around. The custom of the wake evolved from this.

Basically, the family lays the coffin in the parlor, and people come by to grieves, pay their respects, and wish the deceased person goodbye. Of course, this is also a good way for the PCs go get a look at the body, cast Speak With Dead, or whatever, as long as they handle it delicately. The gnomes might object to an impromptu autopsy in the parlor, however.
Lxarth
11-23-04, 03:53 PM I kinda see gnomes as "Einsteinish". Who might look at a body with science in mind, doing measurements, calculations and what-not.

Perhaps in D&D settings they keep the bodies of non-natural deaths available for postmordom spells such as speak with dead. Or perhaps it was a crime and they need evidence using spells to aquire. This is a magical game after all and whos to say a town would not simple use magic to keep a body from rotting away while they investigated.

Perhaps they embalmed their dead and wraped them in burial clothes or wrappings like a mummy and buried mayhaps in easily accessable areas.

Or maybe they beleive that a dead spirit needs there body to reach the afterlife and so it is detroyed through fire (as opposed to leaving to rot for years) to speed up the travel to there God.
Thoronmir
11-23-04, 04:00 PM Yep, it’s your game and only you know how the Gnomes in your world handle their dead.

Customs very culture-to-culture.

Perhaps the Gnomes’ custom is to have local Clerics cast divining spells on anyone who dies of apparent foul play. Oops, the local Priest is away tending to a nearby settlement (or whatever), but “Good news everyone!” … there happens to be a group of adventurers around who can fulfill that part of the custom so the burial can take place.
Talanall
11-23-04, 04:06 PM In the absence of refrigeration or embalming, it was customary to bury the dead within three days in winter, or within 24 hours in summer. Longer, and decay posed a significant danger of causing disease. In a plague or pestilence, burial was even quicker, for similar reasons.

Between the time of death and the time of burial, it was customary for most folks to have a wake, both in order to make sure that the body was really a corpse (as Cravensson suggested), and to allow the deceased's friends and family to mourn. It also allowed a time and place for relatively public confirmation of the death of the deceased party, in such cases as this was an important concern (such as in the case of a hereditary official's death).

Starting in the United States during the Civil War, the above patterns were modified slightly by the advent of an embalming industry, which used special machinery and chemicals to remove a corpse's fluids and replace them with preservatives. This was done explicitly in order to allow a soldier's remains to be boxed up in a casket and sent back to his home for mourning and burial. I do not have any knowledge of what a funeral of this kind would have been like, however.

In DnD, of course, it's possible that a wake of this sort could occur via magical means. Gentle Repose is available through both the clr and the sor/wiz spell lists. A necromancer or cleric of a deity of the dead might very well make a living as an undertaker of sorts, preserving a corpse for extended funerary rites, or for a long wake, or for transportation to a distant burial place.

In general, then as well as now, the more elaborate the funeral and wake, the richer the deceased or his/her family. A good funeral was a sign of status for the deceased and the family; a poor or inexpensive one was a mark of poverty or stinginess, and so you may want to ask yourself how wealthy the deceased is, how much his family liked him/her, and whether there was a binding will in effect to regulate the disposal of his or her body.
Cymraegmorgan
11-23-04, 04:15 PM Rather than a wake, why not have Gnomish custom be to gather the community and have the Bards sing of the deceased's great deeds as everyone drinks and dances while the body is cremated. The the ashes are added to the Garden of the Gone, where pretty flowers bloom all year round.
clarkvalentine
11-23-04, 04:21 PM Do you imagine your Gnomes to be Greyhawk-like - more Bardic, or Illusionist - or sort of like Dragonlance Tinker Gnomes - ever-so-slightly slightly mad inventors with a cultural fascination with technology?

For bardic gnomes, definitely go with the wake, where the mourners celebrate around the body for days on end, telling and retelling tales from the deceased's life - making stuff up if necessary, and everyone getting progressively more tipsy as time goes by.

For tinker gnomes, I'd say they view the body with a more utilitarian eye. To them, a dead body might be just an empty shell. Bury it quickly, perhaps with a short private viewing for close relatives to make their peace.
EatFlan
11-23-04, 04:25 PM with spells such as gentle repose (keep a fresh corpse fresh for days!) and all the illusion spells out there (don't gnomes have some ingrained illusion powers?) i could imagine a wake or any burial ceremony to be postponed for days and days.

Hell even when a body did start to rot you could toss in some magic (presidigitation!? lvl 0) and get rid of the smell, clean the coffin, make it smell like pot roast if you wanted. THen with some illusion magic you could even make a horse buggy v. gnome run in look like the person just died in their sleep.
Callista
11-23-04, 04:39 PM Do you imagine your Gnomes to be Greyhawk-like - more Bardic, or Illusionist - or sort of like Dragonlance Tinker Gnomes - ever-so-slightly slightly mad inventors with a cultural fascination with technology?

Both. Kinda like American society--on one side, you have technology enthusaists; on the other, social butterflies; but both groups are all about enjoying life. I'd say about 80% of gnomes would be the bardic type, the other 20% artificer-style wizards. However, the two groups would run together, with bards often possessing overly complicated instruments, or a wizard creating something that's meant for pure enjoyment--a child's ball that throws off harmless pink sparks whenever it's thrown through the air, for example. Both groups are big on illusion magic.
Fixxxer
11-23-04, 05:20 PM Well, there's nothing here actrually forcing you to detail out the entire burial custom of the race. All you have to be worried about is how long the body is available to the PCs before it's put in the ground (or cremated or mummified or whatever). If you actually feel like designing the burial customs, this is a fine place to start and you could begin by figuring that the body is prepared for burial, which takes a few days. If designing the burial customs in their entirity is not what you're after, you could easily justify access to the body in any number of ways. Perhaps the family of the deceased lives a few days away and the body is being held until they come claim it (and/or identify the corpse). Mabey the fact that the guy was murdered is enough to keep the body from being buried for a while...it's evidence, after all.
kliate
11-23-04, 06:44 PM Well, IMC the gnomes my characters encounter have a small, simple ritual for the dead.

First, they beseech their god to confirm that it is, in fact, the body's time. There have been rare cases where the individual was of such importance that these prayers end in resurrections - but that's the stuff of legends.

Second, assuming the body is still dead, they proceed to cremate the body.

The ashes are kept in an urn for a time, and then scattered to the wind during the festival of ashes marking the end of a year of fire.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Callista 11-23-04, 01:59 PM	I'll be having my players catch a murderer next session (tonight! eep!), and I realized I had never asked myself: Question: In a civilized gnomish town in a generic D&D setting, what might the procedure for burying the dead be? Specifically, where is the corpse from the time of death to the time of burial? I would prefer an idea that allows the PCs to see the body (bodies, if they're slow) at some time or other, for the specific purpose of spells like Speak with Dead or Detect Poison. From what I've heard, in medieval societies, burial was usually prompt; and the body, if it was anywhere, was usually somewhere in the family's house, prepared for burial by family. Some variation of this would be nice. Of course there are no absolute answers, since this is my own setting. I'd appreciate ideas though.
Veton 11-23-04, 03:42 PM	Well, as you said, it's your setting. Maybe people get buried a little later in your world. Also, since these people were (presumably) murdered, their families or the leaders of the town may allow the PCs to cast the spells on the bodies, if they trust them to do it.
Cravensson 11-23-04, 03:52 PM	Perhaps the Gnomes hold a wake, which basically means they sit up with the body for a couple of days before the body is carried to the church and buried. Back when medical science was a little dodgy, it wasn't always easy to tell if somebody was dead, or just comatose. So they used to sit up with them a while in the hope that they would come around. The custom of the wake evolved from this. Basically, the family lays the coffin in the parlor, and people come by to grieves, pay their respects, and wish the deceased person goodbye. Of course, this is also a good way for the PCs go get a look at the body, cast Speak With Dead, or whatever, as long as they handle it delicately. The gnomes might object to an impromptu autopsy in the parlor, however.
Lxarth 11-23-04, 03:53 PM	I kinda see gnomes as "Einsteinish". Who might look at a body with science in mind, doing measurements, calculations and what-not. Perhaps in D&D settings they keep the bodies of non-natural deaths available for postmordom spells such as speak with dead. Or perhaps it was a crime and they need evidence using spells to aquire. This is a magical game after all and whos to say a town would not simple use magic to keep a body from rotting away while they investigated. Perhaps they embalmed their dead and wraped them in burial clothes or wrappings like a mummy and buried mayhaps in easily accessable areas. Or maybe they beleive that a dead spirit needs there body to reach the afterlife and so it is detroyed through fire (as opposed to leaving to rot for years) to speed up the travel to there God.
Thoronmir 11-23-04, 04:00 PM	Yep, it’s your game and only you know how the Gnomes in your world handle their dead. Customs very culture-to-culture. Perhaps the Gnomes’ custom is to have local Clerics cast divining spells on anyone who dies of apparent foul play. Oops, the local Priest is away tending to a nearby settlement (or whatever), but “Good news everyone!” … there happens to be a group of adventurers around who can fulfill that part of the custom so the burial can take place.
Talanall 11-23-04, 04:06 PM	In the absence of refrigeration or embalming, it was customary to bury the dead within three days in winter, or within 24 hours in summer. Longer, and decay posed a significant danger of causing disease. In a plague or pestilence, burial was even quicker, for similar reasons. Between the time of death and the time of burial, it was customary for most folks to have a wake, both in order to make sure that the body was really a corpse (as Cravensson suggested), and to allow the deceased's friends and family to mourn. It also allowed a time and place for relatively public confirmation of the death of the deceased party, in such cases as this was an important concern (such as in the case of a hereditary official's death). Starting in the United States during the Civil War, the above patterns were modified slightly by the advent of an embalming industry, which used special machinery and chemicals to remove a corpse's fluids and replace them with preservatives. This was done explicitly in order to allow a soldier's remains to be boxed up in a casket and sent back to his home for mourning and burial. I do not have any knowledge of what a funeral of this kind would have been like, however. In DnD, of course, it's possible that a wake of this sort could occur via magical means. Gentle Repose is available through both the clr and the sor/wiz spell lists. A necromancer or cleric of a deity of the dead might very well make a living as an undertaker of sorts, preserving a corpse for extended funerary rites, or for a long wake, or for transportation to a distant burial place. In general, then as well as now, the more elaborate the funeral and wake, the richer the deceased or his/her family. A good funeral was a sign of status for the deceased and the family; a poor or inexpensive one was a mark of poverty or stinginess, and so you may want to ask yourself how wealthy the deceased is, how much his family liked him/her, and whether there was a binding will in effect to regulate the disposal of his or her body.
Cymraegmorgan 11-23-04, 04:15 PM	Rather than a wake, why not have Gnomish custom be to gather the community and have the Bards sing of the deceased's great deeds as everyone drinks and dances while the body is cremated. The the ashes are added to the Garden of the Gone, where pretty flowers bloom all year round.
clarkvalentine 11-23-04, 04:21 PM	Do you imagine your Gnomes to be Greyhawk-like - more Bardic, or Illusionist - or sort of like Dragonlance Tinker Gnomes - ever-so-slightly slightly mad inventors with a cultural fascination with technology? For bardic gnomes, definitely go with the wake, where the mourners celebrate around the body for days on end, telling and retelling tales from the deceased's life - making stuff up if necessary, and everyone getting progressively more tipsy as time goes by. For tinker gnomes, I'd say they view the body with a more utilitarian eye. To them, a dead body might be just an empty shell. Bury it quickly, perhaps with a short private viewing for close relatives to make their peace.
EatFlan 11-23-04, 04:25 PM	with spells such as gentle repose (keep a fresh corpse fresh for days!) and all the illusion spells out there (don't gnomes have some ingrained illusion powers?) i could imagine a wake or any burial ceremony to be postponed for days and days. Hell even when a body did start to rot you could toss in some magic (presidigitation!? lvl 0) and get rid of the smell, clean the coffin, make it smell like pot roast if you wanted. THen with some illusion magic you could even make a horse buggy v. gnome run in look like the person just died in their sleep.
Callista 11-23-04, 04:39 PM	Do you imagine your Gnomes to be Greyhawk-like - more Bardic, or Illusionist - or sort of like Dragonlance Tinker Gnomes - ever-so-slightly slightly mad inventors with a cultural fascination with technology? Both. Kinda like American society--on one side, you have technology enthusaists; on the other, social butterflies; but both groups are all about enjoying life. I'd say about 80% of gnomes would be the bardic type, the other 20% artificer-style wizards. However, the two groups would run together, with bards often possessing overly complicated instruments, or a wizard creating something that's meant for pure enjoyment--a child's ball that throws off harmless pink sparks whenever it's thrown through the air, for example. Both groups are big on illusion magic.
Fixxxer 11-23-04, 05:20 PM	Well, there's nothing here actrually forcing you to detail out the entire burial custom of the race. All you have to be worried about is how long the body is available to the PCs before it's put in the ground (or cremated or mummified or whatever). If you actually feel like designing the burial customs, this is a fine place to start and you could begin by figuring that the body is prepared for burial, which takes a few days. If designing the burial customs in their entirity is not what you're after, you could easily justify access to the body in any number of ways. Perhaps the family of the deceased lives a few days away and the body is being held until they come claim it (and/or identify the corpse). Mabey the fact that the guy was murdered is enough to keep the body from being buried for a while...it's evidence, after all.
kliate 11-23-04, 06:44 PM	Well, IMC the gnomes my characters encounter have a small, simple ritual for the dead. First, they beseech their god to confirm that it is, in fact, the body's time. There have been rare cases where the individual was of such importance that these prayers end in resurrections - but that's the stuff of legends. Second, assuming the body is still dead, they proceed to cremate the body. The ashes are kept in an urn for a time, and then scattered to the wind during the festival of ashes marking the end of a year of fire.