Post/Author/DateTime	Post
High King Tigernmas 07-28-05, 09:04 AM	Warning- this may be a rant... :rant: :hoppingma My players- I hate them...This be the tale... Epic Campaign is going well...The PCs have a child to carry with them, of their own free will 'You may leave it with the Gnomes', 'No! We want to take it and keep it safe!'... The PCs mess up one mission (Note:When you are behind the Beholder that the other player is distracting, attack it!), and suddenly they decide that they've had enough...They become some sort of undead and go to attack a defencless village... I had a bit of revenge here, unleashing my home-brew Abomination on them...But they've just destroyed the entire campaign plot, and another player who is on holiday was enjoying this campaign a lot, as was I...and they've wrecked it... So, the question is this-what should I do?
LCD2YOU 07-28-05, 09:08 AM	your campaign is not ruined, just think of the consequences that follow from their actions. Of course if they have a child with them, anything that wants to revenge themselves on them will want to destroy the kid and if possible scatter their soul so it will be so hard to track ddown the shards. Putting it on a major domo in the Abyss, making it part of a high ranking Modron in Mechanus, etc. are all good plot devices to keep them jumping for a good long time. Then there's the problem of the shattered psyche of the kid when they finally put them back together.....
High King Tigernmas 07-28-05, 09:13 AM	Sorry, I forgot this... They gave the child away...Not when threatened or had it stolen, they just gave it away...And they don't care about it now... I thought of what to do though...The worm that walks wizard that took the child will now summon up they're undead forms as slaves, and use them in menial tasks...Only thing thats actually annoying me is that they think they're so great with all they'll abilities and minimal level adjustment, so I hate to destroy them...
alecthemad 07-28-05, 09:15 AM	If only you and one other player were enjoying the campaign then maybe you need to rethink the idea. The previous advice of go with it can work out. You may also need to scrap it and start over. You could also have an OOC talk with the players regarding what occured. Find out if they were enjoying the campaign or not. Then make corrections based upon the feedback. It may be that they were a little frustrated and just decided to go crazy. You may have to do a bit of time erasing to get you campaign on track again but I find that such tactics usually do not work. I think you may need to start all over again. I am sure you have tons of campaign ideas, most DMs have far more ideas than they could run in a lifetime.
Zorminster 07-28-05, 09:20 AM	okay do this- tell them the campaign is probably ruined, youll play a session or two more in this one before you scrap it. roll up new characters (same level) take all the sheets. next session, these undead are attacked. bya group of adventurers. who just happen to have just been rolled up. make sure the adventurers win. inform the group they can either play that group or be done. either way, you got rid of their nonsensical undead group.
High King Tigernmas 07-28-05, 09:22 AM	I know that they were both enjoying it, because all the players said so on many occasions... Its because they think its so cool to be evil and the player thats on holiday was the one who had convinced them to be good for one campaign (and it was working, as I said-they enjoyed it) I knew from the start the session was going to suck though- one of the players sat and lit matches and refused to stop doing it...the other sat flicking through the Libris Mortiis (I wonder where Mr. Imagination got the idea for his transformation)...But they're now refusing to follow any sort of senseible story and just want to 'Take over the world by killing everyone...'
Illion the Red 07-28-05, 09:29 AM	I knew from the start the session was going to suck though- one of the players sat and lit matches and refused to stop doing it...the other sat flicking through the Libris Mortiis (I wonder where Mr. Imagination got the idea for his transformation)...But they're now refusing to follow any sort of senseible story and just want to 'Take over the world by killing everyone...' Teach them the axiom "There's always someone out there who's tougher than you." Give them a change for redemption, but I would really worry about the mental states of the players described here. Personally, I'd be done with the first one after the second match.
High King Tigernmas 07-28-05, 09:34 AM	next session, these undead are attacked. bya group of adventurers. who just happen to have just been rolled up. make sure the adventurers win. inform the group they can either play that group or be done. either way, you got rid of their nonsensical undead group. @Zorminister:Thank you. I may do this, though I may just humiliate they're chracters again and again :) Teach them the axiom "There's always someone out there who's tougher than you." Give them a change for redemption, but I would really worry about the mental states of the players described here. Personally, I'd be done with the first one after the second match. I was done with him, but I couldn't chuck him out...I just destroyed his character...and he didn't get the point :rolleyes: With this guy I've had problems before..and him playing a good character was always going to be hard to keep on the straight and narrow...He seems for some reason to think that: Good=No sense of humour Neutral=Bland Evil=Always going to win, really cool, unstoppable... Redemption...thats they're 'really cool' ironic name for they're characters (Bad roleplaying as well :mad: )... The really sad thing is they just destroyed two of their best characters they've ever done, the only ones that I felt weren't just taken from books!
SeidonVanDolf 07-28-05, 09:35 AM	I hate it when players get stuck on one alignment. We had a guy in our group who thought that the only way to play the game was by being evil, pretending to be good (even to the extent of starting as good aligned and then 'falling' as he called it, I call it leaping full speed, into being evil) even when he wasn't. He was even quoted once as saying, "Games just aren't fun unless at least one member of a group is trying to screw the other guys over." We voted and we don't play with him anymore and you know we are all having a lot more fun. *sigh*
High King Tigernmas 07-28-05, 09:38 AM	I really wish I could chuck him one of them out, but the group is three people and myself, and one's on holiday...And I can't find anyone I think could play any alignment and roleplay and actually want to play... :(
Carn Vandoril 07-28-05, 09:53 AM	Railroad them! And if they don't like the following setup, quit the campaign: * kill the players by some epic battle, make it a full evil adventure (1-3 gamenights) But make it realistic and let them have a little more fun. * after the TPK, all characters roll will save. * The one with the highest save....... will be AWAKEN from a terrible nightmare! * or the player that's on holiday, returns... and awakes the first. * This players sees all his companions lying in their sleep, being strangled by an assassinvine (gargantuan + nightmare supernaturalability), including himself. * sweating, moawning, they lay there! The have no time to argue! They pick up their 'old' sheets and have to defeit this monstruous plant or be killed. * The plant notices the player that woke up and starts doing his real 'strangle damage'. * make a DC for the other players, aided by the one who woke up, to wake up aswell. *After the battle, do something special with the baby, it's hurt but curiously not dead. (maybe the baby summoned a celestial small creature to save it, in it's time of need). * pick up where you left, but rewrite/skip the allready played plot with the beholder. * give them exp for roleplaying the nightmare. * Ask them if they want to continue........
alecthemad 07-28-05, 09:57 AM	You know what. If they want to take over the world let them. Seriously. Tell them you are going to spend two or three sessions on them taking over the world and killing things. But then it will be a good game with no complaints. Let them go crazy. Before the next game give them enough experience to gain two levels. Just let them go nuts and feel like a big man for a while. Throw hordes of humans and monsters at them, weak ones they will wipe out. Kill, kill, death, kill. Then end the killing frenzy with a strong group of good heros. Defeat them and you will rule the world, you will be worshipped as gods and ascend to demigodhood. Make it a good strong fight but in the end the players win. Pow they rule the world, the masses bow down and worship their lords. They can feel the influx of power as they become divine rank of 1, the other gods die off as their source of power disappears. End the game. Start the new game. When they get bored again stop the game before they ruin it. Time for super evil god rumble. Tell the players that being evil each of them want the whole world and not to share it. Time to fight to see who really rules the world. Let the players duke it out, you just sit back and adjudicate. The best part, the losers will reform in time for the next super evil god rumble (Be there, SUNDAY, SUNDAY, SUNDAY). Sometimes you just have to let the baby have his bottle.
High King Tigernmas 07-28-05, 10:00 AM	^Not a choice...Its a homebrew world we'll be using again and again...I can't let it be taken over... Though I have one more idea from your post...The gods will just crush them :)
alecthemad 07-28-05, 10:02 AM	Alternate timeline baby. They destroy that world but another world nearly the same as the first exists.
High King Tigernmas 07-28-05, 10:05 AM	Hmmm...maybe...I mean I didn't spend 4 hours drawing a map for nothing... :D
alecthemad 07-28-05, 10:15 AM	I think your players will appreciate your desire to continue to use the world they ruined. You have many approaches for this. Alternate timeline is one. You could also say that the events leading to their godhood happend long ago in the age of legend. Have the time of the evil three (four?) gods be part of the history of the world. Then just go on with the same campaign world. I have used greyhawk over and over again. I just keep resetting it. Homebrew worlds I have used the alternate timeline technique and the long ago technique. It may take a little work and a little extra suspension of disbelief by your players but you can make it work. My main point is that it is sometimes best to just go with the flow for a bit and then get on with the real game. Otherwise you will end up angry, frustrated, and burnt.
VirgilCaine 07-28-05, 10:17 AM	Alternate timeline baby. They destroy that world but another world nearly the same as the first exists. Go with this. This will solve nearly any problem--destroyed gods? Alternate timeline. Wolrldwide destruction of all Good creatures? Alternate timeline. Let them destroy and kill each other and good characters to their hearts content. Then, I was done with him, but I couldn't chuck him out...I just destroyed his character...and he didn't get the point With this guy I've had problems before..and him playing a good character was always going to be hard to keep on the straight and narrow...He seems for some reason to think that: Good=No sense of humour Neutral=Bland Evil=Always going to win, really cool, unstoppable... Kick him out. Tell him he isn't welcome anymore. Your game styles don't mesh.
Carn Vandoril 07-28-05, 10:17 AM	Hmmm...maybe...I mean I didn't spend 4 hours drawing a map for nothing... :D So what is it you don't like about my idea? :(
High King Tigernmas 07-28-05, 10:22 AM	@Carn Vandoril: Sorry, I missed it out...I actually like it a lot! Though I'll get killed for the 'It was all a dream' bit... @Alecthemad: Otherwise you will end up angry, frustrated, and burnt. I am! Kick him out. Tell him he isn't welcome anymore. Your game styles don't mesh. @VirgilCaine: I can't, I really can't...the group is too small and he's one of my best friends...It's really hard sometimes to be DM :(
alecthemad 07-28-05, 10:30 AM	If you are already burnt or frustrated then you need to do something. Since no one in my group like to DM I usually found the best way was to just do a few easy sessions full of the stuff the players like. Let them know you are doing this and that you will be rather lax on the rules. Then just have fun. It can be small stuff or big epic world destroying stuff. As a DM it can be very relaxing not having to worry about making certain things happen and actually let the players "win". I like my idea but there are many good ways to do this. If you don't want to destroy your world then transport them to greyhawk or forgotten realms or eberron, or dark sun or what ever. Worst case take a break from DM duties and let someone else run a game. I find your players tend to appreciate you a lot more after seeing a poor DM at work.
VirgilCaine 07-28-05, 10:36 AM	@VirgilCaine: I can't, I really can't...the group is too small and he's one of my best friends...It's really hard sometimes to be DM :( If he's really your friend, he would have stopped lighting matches when you told him. He also would have understood when you killed his character. If he is really your friend, he will understand that your game styles don't mesh. You can find other players, have current players use two characters or hire hirelings/slightly higher level characters/whatever so you can run a game. Good games can be too much fun to ruin with bad players.
Phrennzy 07-28-05, 10:39 AM	I knew from the start the session was going to suck though- one of the players sat and lit matches and refused to stop doing it...the other sat flicking through the Libris Mortiis (I wonder where Mr. Imagination got the idea for his transformation)...But they're now refusing to follow any sort of senseible story and just want to 'Take over the world by killing everyone...' That whole 'match-lighting' thing and flipping through the book would have ended the game for me. I would just stop DMing. Right there. Explain why. Do you want to DM for an evil group? If not, then don't. I wouldn't - not for a long term campaign. You don't HAVE to DM. Let one of them do it. Also, start looking for additional players, or another game altogether.
Carn Vandoril 07-28-05, 10:44 AM	@Carn Vandoril: Sorry, I missed it out...I actually like it a lot! Though I'll get killed for the 'It was all a dream' bit... yes messages tend to go fast sometimes :D I don't think your players will kill you because of the dreampart when rewarded with exp. And they had fun being evil for a while, right? As a backup (maybe to far fetched but he) : what if the celestial creature told the pc's he saw a wizard carrying a mirror teleporting away with 4 people??? :D mumbling:"well, I don't want to save them, but I could sure use some help. luckely I have this mirror, my boss won't mind if I use it this just once...." Then they hear of the beholder story... etc.
LCD2YOU 07-28-05, 11:17 AM	That whole 'match-lighting' thing and flipping through the book would have ended the game for me. I would just stop DMing. Right there. Explain why. Do you want to DM for an evil group? If not, then don't. I wouldn't - not for a long term campaign. You don't HAVE to DM. Let one of them do it. Also, start looking for additional players, or another game altogether.Unless you're like all of my other stubborn Irish relatives. As the DM, you set the game. They want to play evil? Fine, there are consequences for their actions. Epid level PCs? Big deal. Epic level good guys eat those guys for breakfast. Come on, letting a kid go and leaving him/her in the tender mercies of whatever they created? See if you can get a shrink at group rates. Friends don't try to get friends mad. Sure you're thinking of their feelings but it seems the opposite is not the case. Last but not least, you don't have to DM. Phrenzy's post hit it dead on.
Carn Vandoril 07-28-05, 11:23 AM	I agree, but I was thinking the OP want's to give them a second chance. Maybe I'm wrong?
High King Tigernmas 07-28-05, 03:37 PM	Worst case take a break from DM duties and let someone else run a game. I find your players tend to appreciate you a lot more after seeing a poor DM at work. I might, though I can't stand the other DMs missions- noone can because we all know whats going to happen! I think I'll go with the dream thing and give them a second chance- if they refuse I'll pack it in and let someone else DM a while...But I have the dream mission prepared- can anyone say, 'Entombed in the temple of the serpant kings'? Thats right- homebrew Stygian monstrositys, Wizards and overse Eygptian themes ending in DEATH for the PCs...
LCD2YOU 07-28-05, 03:45 PM	(snip) Thats right- homebrew Stygian monstrositys, Wizards and overse Eygptian themes ending in DEATH for the PCs...the best. Die PCs! DIE!
High King Tigernmas 07-28-05, 03:57 PM	the best. Die PCs! DIE! I actually came to a conclusion as I made the map... D&D would be 1000x better if we removed the following components: Skill Points Feats (For NPC fighters :mad: ) Damage Reduction Fast Healing Players