Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CHeard 09-12-04, 02:24 AM	Hello, everyone. I played basic D&D and AD&D heavily from 1979-1986, then took a long break. I've recently come back to the game and very much like the d20 system. However, I'm not quite sure I have the system of Challenge Ratings and Encounter Levels figured out yet. I understand how to use Table 3-1 in the DMG for standard creatures, no problem. I'm not quite as certain about CRs for NPC encounters; an NPC's CR = character level (DMG, chapter 2), but it doesn't seem to me that one 2nd-level NPC is a challenging encounter for a party of four 2nd-level PCs, as Table 3-1 would seem to imply. Also, I'm relatively uncertain about assigning ELs and CRs to noncombat encounters (not including traps, which are no problem). Any help would be appreciated. Chris
Sabin 09-12-04, 03:06 AM	The CR system is a little messy if you want to make challenges. The system is designed so that every fight a party has with an enemy of a cr equal to their party level, their resources will be drained 20%. It's set so PCs can generally fight 4 fights of their level before having to rest. If you want to challenge the party, it depends on the opposition. Usually, I reccomend increasing the numbers while decreasing the CR. 2 4th level fighters aren't much of a challenge because it's a 2 on 1 match for the each of them, so they get screwed, but 3 level 3's are going to be able to cause more damage, usually. Sometimes, increasing the Cr fits better. Especially for the BBEG. If the final, last boss of the whole universe is their level, it isn't going to be much of a challenge for the PCs.
Lothian Claw 09-12-04, 09:54 AM	I'm not to big on the CR's either. But to make thing's easier on me, and the PC's that play when I DM, ( ...WHEN I DM... ) I mark up the CR +2-3 more level's then the party's total level. Like you said, if an NPC were to have a CR, it would be his level. I add all the parties level's, ( say 3 level 3 fighters ), and add on +2-3 more level's for the BBEG. So a party of 3 level 3 fighters would fight a level 10, or 11 fighter, mage, wizard, barbarian, ranger.. you name it. Other DM's might not like this style. It's just my PO..
Lxarth 09-12-04, 10:35 AM	So a party of 3 level 3 fighters would fight a level 10, or 11 fighter, mage, wizard, barbarian, ranger.. you name it. Whoa...you don't think a level 10-11 fighter is a little much for only 3, 3rd level fighters? Um...maybe more people would play in your campaigns if you didn't do that, just a thought
Lothian Claw 09-12-04, 10:59 AM	Personally, I do. But this is how I was brought into the game. I am new to the 3.0 books. Rustic if you will. This is how one of my "PC's" told me, to do it. He has played like that for a while.. and I guess they like it.
DougC 09-12-04, 12:10 PM	Whoa...you don't think a level 10-11 fighter is a little much for only 3, 3rd level fighters? Um...maybe more people would play in your campaigns if you didn't do that, just a thought I would think that it depends on how you DM. I occasionally let my players avance their PCs in two class levels at the same time, splitting all XP earned between the two classes. For example, at the end of one campaign, the PCs were: Wizard/Rogue 18/18, Fighter/Wizard 18/18, Barbarian/Rogue 18/18, etc. Each went from 17/17 to 18/18 at the same time. When generating their characters, way back at level 1/1, I allowed 4d6, drop the lowest, roll 9 times, re-roll 1's & 2's, choose the best 6, and place them where they want them. In such a game as that, 3 third level fighters vs. a level 10-11 fighter or fighter/whatever, wouldn't be that big of a deal. :)
Sabin 09-12-04, 03:59 PM	I'm not to big on the CR's either. But to make thing's easier on me, and the PC's that play when I DM, ( ...WHEN I DM... ) I mark up the CR +2-3 more level's then the party's total level. Like you said, if an NPC were to have a CR, it would be his level. I add all the parties level's, ( say 3 level 3 fighters ), and add on +2-3 more level's for the BBEG. So a party of 3 level 3 fighters would fight a level 10, or 11 fighter, mage, wizard, barbarian, ranger.. you name it. Other DM's might not like this style. It's just my PO.. That's kinda intense. A level 11th fighter gets 3 attacks. Assume he has a strength of at least 20, a magical weapon of at least +2, and of course, weapon spec: d8 (longsword) + 5 (str) + 2 (magic weapon) + 2 (weapon spec) 10-17 damage. Assuming a PC has an average hit point total of 30, it'll take two or three attacks to kill him. Assume the average 11th level character has 110 hp.
Oompa 09-12-04, 04:07 PM	I have an question to about cr's and ecl's cause i dont have my book here.. If i have an.. cl 3, cl 4 and cl 5 monster.. and my 4 lvl 6 pc's defeat them and they get xp.. How do you give youre party xp? per cr? or per ecl of the monster party ( ecl = 4 in this example right?)
Sabin 09-12-04, 04:16 PM	You give it PER CR of the monster. They'd get experience for beating a level 3, level 4, and level 5 monster, not for beating 3 level 4 monsters. ELs (encounter levels) are only for determining how challenging a fight is, not experience.
Oompa 09-12-04, 04:19 PM	You give it PER CR of the monster. They'd get experience for beating a level 3, level 4, and level 5 monster, not for beating 3 level 4 monsters. ELs (encounter levels) are only for determining how challenging a fight is, not experience. Ok then.. im sure im doing the right thing then hahaha :)