Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Last City 05-05-06, 04:01 AM	What are your rules for PCs that want to target a specific part of the body? I cant seem to find any good reference to this idea. Want to hear your imput. :)
Mitchell 05-05-06, 04:40 AM	Personally, I have none. Nor does the other guy that DMs when I play. Not that it can't be done, but I haven't had the inclination to figure something out and haven't seen anything worth considering. Of course, the counter-point to this is that it's already in the game... Trip can be seen as "Called shot: Leg", disarm as "Called shot: Arm", sunder as "Called shot:Weapon", and shield pin as "Called shot:Shield". There are even some ranged versions available for the archers who want to try. And don't forget a vorpal critical as "Called shot: Neck". :)
anders 05-05-06, 05:06 AM	personally I dont favour the idea of called shots. The short version is this: * Wouldnt a skilled fighter always try to hit the best spot, so why try to include a complicated game mechanichs to cover this? * Balance; I've yet to see a suggestion where a fighter either never would call shots or he would always call shots. If it has a special meaning to attack a specifict body part of a monster (such as a hydras heads) I inform my players about the possibility.
DaveTheMagicWeasel 05-05-06, 05:38 AM	There are some Called Shot rules in the Grim N Gritty hit point rules. The latest version can be bought from most of the online pdf shops, or if you PM me I'd be happy to send you the slightly outdated free version. It would be very easy to just use the called shot rules in a normal game with minimum need to change them. But if you do introduce any try and make sure they are as streamlined as possible - because for what it actually adds to the game it isn't worth anything more than a small amount of effort.
Illion the Red 05-05-06, 09:10 AM	D&D is designed and playtested to specifically exclude called shot rules. The only way I would consider having such a thing is to add a feat specific to it that would allow for some increased chance for a critical hit - this would not be the same as improved critical. It would run something like this: A player with this feat may take an attack penalty equal to the critical multiplier of his or her weapon and increase the critical threat range of that weapon by one. This increase does not stack with keen, improved critical, or any other effect that increases a weapon's critical threat range normally. Instead it is added to the weapon's critical threat range after all other effects have been applied. The attack penalty and increased critical threat range last until the player's next initiative action or until the end of combat, whichever occurs first. Not sure this is balanced as I just came up with it now, but remember that any ability to make a called shot for the players would also extend to the monsters.
Sphyre 05-05-06, 09:13 AM	Personally, I have none. Nor does the other guy that DMs when I play. Not that it can't be done, but I haven't had the inclination to figure something out and haven't seen anything worth considering. Of course, the counter-point to this is that it's already in the game... Trip can be seen as "Called shot: Leg", disarm as "Called shot: Arm", sunder as "Called shot:Weapon", and shield pin as "Called shot:Shield". There are even some ranged versions available for the archers who want to try. And don't forget a vorpal critical as "Called shot: Neck". :) You took the words out of my mouth. That's exactly what called shots are in 3.5. Not to mention, a critical hit is also the result of hitting in the most vulnerable spot. That's why there's such things as immunities to critical hits because there is no best spot to hit.
wrecan 05-05-06, 09:57 AM	I have played with the idea of a Combat action, like disarm, trip, overrun and bull rush that would be called "disable". It would provoke an AoO like a disarm or trip attempt, unless one had the Feat Improved Disable. You take a -4 penalty to hit and you must strike with nonlethal damage (an additional -4 to hit) and if successful, you render a specific limb (arms and legs only) useless until the non-lethal damage fades (by time or healing), but only if the amount of damage inflicted (after the application of applicable DR) exceeds the level/HD of the creature. I've also considered that a critical hit on a disable attempt would inflict lethal damage at the attacker's option, which would thus extend the duration of the disability. The result of the loss of one limb (on a two-armed creature) is that you can't use that hand (although rings and bracers on that arm continue to function). Loss of half or fewer of a cresture's legs halves movement, prevents running, Bull rushing or overrunning, and adds 10 to the DC of any Balance or Tumble check. Loss of more than half of a creature's legs causes the victim to fall prone. That's as much of a called shot as I would be willing to import. I still haven't decided if it's just another unnecessary complication to the rules.
terrainmonkey 05-05-06, 10:02 AM	in the gritty fast paced nature of combat, you are merely trying to kill your opponent the fastest way possible. thus, quick stabs, lunges, etc. A called shot is one that has to be lined up, for perhaps 3 rounds, without any kind of interruptions, much like a sniper, or assassin. There really is no mechanic in game, and if you want to house rule it, you could say yes and do whatever you think is right as a DM. Me? not so much. in the long time i've been playing i can think of only 3 times it has ever come up, and every time it was in that rare instance in the midst of combatting the BBEG. i always give a -10 penalty, -20 if the person they are trying to hit are in combat. that usually stops the called shot nonsense. If you put caled shots into your game, there is a potential that your BBEG will be killed in one blow by a lucky shot from a ranger or something that didn't fit inot your tacticals when you designed him. not to say this is a bad thing on the part of your players, but it is a mechanic that doesn't need to be in the game. if everyone could do it, there would be no reason to have an assassin death blow, rogue sneak attack, etc. these are what i would term "called shots". that and the example above with the "called shot: leg, etc."
Arganis 05-05-06, 10:09 AM	The best called shot rules I ever saw were as a feat that allowed you to apply a penalty to your attack roll and add it to damage. This represents aiming for a harder-to-hit, more vital part of the body, and exactly mirrors the Power Attack feat for melee weapons. If you go the other route though, then successful attacks should not impose irresistable consequences. There should be a save.
infideli 05-05-06, 10:19 AM	PC: I hit him on the leg DM: We don't have hit location rules PC: I aim low, and hit his legs... I can trip him with my legs or my staff but I can't hit his legs with my sword? DM: Umm...... No. PC: Why? DM: Umm...... My PCs recently cut the arm off of a wizard (by attacking his arm to wound and cause pain but not kill) while raiding and capturing him. I had to default to 2nd edition rules for how much damage the arm could take and the effect of loosing the arm. My world has somewhat advanced science and universities and lower levels of magic. There are expert surgoens who can put screws in bones, reattach limbs, do internal surgury and other stuff... though the best in the land was secretly an evil necromancer with a basement full of animated horros... but I digress. I generated some quick hit location rules but we have not play-tested it yet. We try to have a rules set to know general capabilities an limitations, but we don't want a rules debate or recourse to slow down the action. Yes, truestrike can eliminate most of the penalties to hit, but a cure can eliminate the damage. Big deal. You can see what really works and what doesn't by testing. Here is the link to the combat rules page: http://www.geocities.com/bran_nor/Anointed/Combat.htm I just looked over it and I see some obvious grammar errors and there are a some elements of using the rules that are not explicitly stated. I probably should clarify it, but a lot of it really will depend on the situation. If I update it, I will post that I have done so... but the rules are just a reference, a touchstone detailing the reality of the world so the players have at least an idea of what effect these perfectly normal and real actions will have. PC: I want to attack the bandit's legs DM: Okay, you are aiming lower than usual so you take a -4 to hit... PC: 19! That stills hits, 14 damage! DM: Your slash cuts in above his knee [rolls dice] and the scout falls to his knees, but is not prone PC: "Yield or face a blade WITHOUT mercy" DM: He looks to his bleeding leg as it continues to gush his life away... [rolls morale] and throws down his blade. "You just ruined my raiding days, Paladin". G
Tormsskull 05-05-06, 10:22 AM	My PCs recently cut the arm off of a wizard (by attacking his arm to wound and cause pain but not kill) while raiding and capturing him. I had to default to 2nd edition rules for how much damage the arm could take and the effect of loosing the arm. My world had somewhat advanced science and universities and lower levels of magic. There are expert surgoens who can put screws in bones, reattach limbs, do internal surgury and other stuff... though the best in the land was secretly an evil necromancer with a basement full of animated horros... but I digress. I generated some quick hit location rules but we have not play-tested it yet. We try to have a rules set to know general capabilities an limitations, but we don't want a rules debate or recourse to slow down the action. Here is the link to the combat rules page: http://www.geocities.com/bran_nor/Anointed/Combat.htm G So like Star Wars where Jedi are constantly cutting off people's hands cause its no biggie.
celtredleg 05-05-06, 10:32 AM	What are your rules for PCs that want to target a specific part of the body? I cant seem to find any good reference to this idea. Want to hear your imput. :) Just say no. There are no good rules as called shots basicly wreck the current combat system. Play another game if you must. Called shot will not work in DnD
Whim 05-05-06, 10:36 AM	The group I play with uses called shots all the time. In fact, nearly every attack we do could be considered a called shot. We're usually very specific about how we want the battles to go and area already thinking 3 moves ahead in order to keep the enemy off-balance and as helpless as possible. So, what we generally do is add -2 to -6 to hit, depending on how difficult of a called-shot we're trying to accomplish. But when it comes to something like trying to hit someone in the chest or legs, there's not really any innate disadvantage there--unless you're going specifically for the heart or groin, I suppose.
Darko 05-05-06, 10:37 AM	If you do use called shots, remember to ban True Strike
infideli 05-05-06, 10:46 AM	If you do use called shots, remember to ban True Strike True strike is no problem, just give a save to avoid any "deadly" effects. The eye or heart or throat are vital but small areas. A person only has to sway a little or jerk as a sword comes to their face and the precise hit is ruined. It is the same with trapping a person with a wall of ice or hitting them with a lightening bolt. You could use a called shot with a ray... but you'd grant a save, probably. It is easy to move an arm or legs to avoid a hit. G
celtredleg 05-05-06, 10:53 AM	Are monsters allowed called shots?? They certainly should be. After all, they want to win just as badly as the PCs The other problem with called shots, is if there are specific body locations, then every sho even non-called ones have to hit somewhere. After all, nobody winds up and whacks you in the hit points. Every strike has to hit something.
Tormsskull 05-05-06, 10:55 AM	After all, nobody winds up and whacks you in the hit points. LOL. Awesome quote. On a side note, it isn't a called shot per se, but you can use the damage to specific body parts variant rule in the DMG. My group uses that and it is kinda fun.
Whim 05-05-06, 10:59 AM	Are monsters allowed called shots?? They certainly should be. After all, they want to win just as badly as the PCs The other problem with called shots, is if there are specific body locations, then every sho even non-called ones have to hit somewhere. After all, nobody winds up and whacks you in the hit points. Every strike has to hit something. Monsters can and DO use called shots in my campaigns--especially when the players are using them. Anyway, as far as realism goes, yeah, if you miss the called shot, you'd probably still hit something on the opponent's body. However, in order to keep things balanced, I don't usually do that in my scenarios and when I do it's not based on any hard rules. If a person could make a called shot and still hit the enemy even if they miss the called shot, then why would anyone NOT used called shot since there would be no penalty to do so? So, again, from a realistic point of view, called shots are pointless, but applied to game mechanics, it can be a very interesting aspect of the game.
wrecan 05-05-06, 11:12 AM	That's not what centreledleg is saying, I think. He's not saying that failed called shots should still hit something. He's saying that every shot is a called shot because all fighters are always trying to maximize damage in combat, so called shot is redundant. It's written into the hit point system.
Whim 05-05-06, 11:24 AM	That's not what centreledleg is saying, I think. He's not saying that failed called shots should still hit something. He's saying that every shot is a called shot because all fighters are always trying to maximize damage in combat, so called shot is redundant. It's written into the hit point system. Ah, you're right. I read his post too fast. Anyway, called shots still have their place because while a warrior would want to maximize his damage, he may also want to use a specific strategy or maneuver to position himself to do that max damage. Also, I find that players--MY players, at least--like being able to choose where and how they're attacking rather than just saying, "I attack". It greatly personalizes the experience when the player says, "I stab the ogre in the stomach causing him to double over, and then stab my sword through the back of his neck." Obviously, that all wouldn't necessarily be done in one turn--at least not successfully--but hopefully you get the general idea.
Shar_the_Black 05-05-06, 11:39 AM	Well, I happen to own a copy of the Quintessential Fighter and they do have a way of handling called shots. As all of the Quint series, it isn't Core rules kind of stuff, but rather, it's a playing enchancement/style of rules to spice up your game. Here's how they handle it... In order to make a called shot, a charcter must score a threat against an enemy, and then declare one of the called shots below instead of going for a critical hit. Damage is applied normally with the attack roll, but another roll is made immediately. If the second roll is also successful, then extra damage is not rolled for, but the effects of the called shot take place instead. The effects of a called shot doesn't work against enemies immune to crit hits. The effects of a called shot may be negated through the use of any cure spell, or a DC:15 heal check Called shot to the Arm - May not be used against an arm the carries a shield, however, a successful attack will cause the target to drop anything held in that hand, automatically disarming them. In addition, they take another 1d4 points of damage and a -4 penalty to all checks and attacks rolls using that arm. These effects last for 1d6 rounds unless healed. A character must have a BAB of +2 or higher to use this option. (Personally if you do this, I think the target should get a reflex save to avoid dropping anything) Called shot to the Eye- a successful attack will cause the target 1d6 damage and -4 to attack rolls and reflex saves. In additon, the target will lose 10 feet from his base speed, and face a -4 penalty to anything dex related. If both eyes are attacked the enemy is rendered blind. These effects last for 1d6 hoursunless healed. After thi time the victim must make a fort save DC:15 or remain short of one (or both) eye(s). A character must have a BAB of +10 or higher to use this option. Called shot to the Groin- Upon making a successful attack the target victim is staggered and can take only partial actions for 1d6 rounds unless healed. A character must have a BAB of +2 or higher to use this option. Called shot to the Head- Upon making a successful attack the target victim is stunned and suffers 1d4 points of damage and will lose any dex bonus to AC and can take no actions. Anyone attacking the stunned victim gains a +2 to hit. This effects last 1d4 rounds unless healed. A character must have a BAB of +8 or higher to use this option. Called shot to the Leg- Upon making a successful attack the target victim takes 1d4 damage and have his base speed halved. In additon, all climb, jump, and swim checks take a -4 penalty. These effects last 1d6 rounds unless healed. A character must have a BAB of +2 or higher to use this option. These are the only rules I know of for called shots, but like I mentioned earlier, these are rules from a non-core source, and the DM's free to use them if he'd like and alter them in any way that would fit his needs. I hope all of this helps in some way shape or form :D
StormKnight 05-05-06, 12:34 PM	Any called shot rules that inflict extra damage on the target need to take into account HP or BAB, or they will have problems. The only way high level fighters get "better" at defending themselves is with high HP. If a called shot attack for an effect is just at a penalty to hit, its just as easy to hit an unarmored 20th level fighter in the eye as a 1st level peasant. A basic attack represents trying to do damage as effectively as possible. If you want to only make "vital shots", fight defensively - this can represent biding your time to make a good shot, as it decreases your chances of getting a normal hit but the chances of a critical hit are not decreased. I agree with some others in that an arm/hand shot = disarm, leg shot = trip. I do allow some called shots for effect, but these only have an effect IF the damage would drop the target below 0 HP. In this case, the shot does 1/2 damage and the desired effect occurs. Example: You try to chop off the wizard's hand. You roll an 8 for damage. If the wizard had 10 HP left, he now has 2 HP left and did not lose his hand. If the wizard had 6 HP left, he now has 2 HP left and you've cut his hand off. However, even this I use a situational occurance rather than a hard and fast rule.
Epicweaver 05-05-06, 12:53 PM	I've only really used one Called Shot option for v3.5 D&D. Called Shots You may make a called shot prior to attacking a foe. If you roll a natural 20 and confirm the critical, you forgo additional critical damage but instead cause a penalty of some sort to the target (legs = reduced movement, arms = inability to wield item, head = dazed, stunned, or chance to die). Generally you can only make called shots to natural appendages as opposed to vital organs (that's called Sneak Attack). If you fail to roll a natural 20, but your attack roll would still hit, instead treat the attack as though it struck the target normally. Essentially you're giving up your extra damage on a critical to cause a disability of some sort (or even kill the target if they're weak enough) if you score a critical. Occurences for use rarely occured as players never liked the idea of sacrificing the opportunity for more damage. I think that allowing any confirmed critical wouldn't be that bad either... But honestly, players shouldn't have a visible table that you'd use for how you deal with a Called Shot arm hit or whatnot.. or it would just become a mission for the crunchers to find an abuse.
HermitIX 05-05-06, 02:59 PM	Well I figure that the PCs are always trying to hit meaningful parts of their opponents. A critical hit is when they succeed. If my party wants called shot what I do is… when they get a critical hit (confirmed) they can in stead if taking the extra damage, attempt to hit their opponent in a sensitive area. The various DCs for that parts of the body you can hit depend on the size of the target. They roll to hit with a bonus equal to the critical multiplier x 2. What ever part they hit is incapacitated. And the guys gets a penalty depending on what was hit. If they miss then they just do regular damage as if they hit with out a critical. I haven’t written up stats mostly I implement this system on the fly.
Last City 05-08-06, 12:18 AM	Cool! :)