Called shots [Archive] - Wizards Community

Called shots [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Forgedwar
01-21-07, 02:46 PM My Player keeps using called shot. He says that it just puts a -4 on his attack roll. He used it to wrap a creature around the waist with a bladed whip. Then he said that it would take a further amount of damage if it moved. Is this right? He also called a shot around the neck and choked the creature, can he do this?
Aratex
01-21-07, 02:54 PM He can make a called shot at a -4 penalty.

He can't tell the DM what happens to the target when he does so. A called shot to the neck will hit the neck if it hits, but it's up to you if it wraps around and grips.
Dire_Rhino
01-21-07, 02:54 PM RAW, no. Called shots do not exist in 3.5.

The generally accepted explanation is that you're always trying to hit the most vulnerable spot (waist, neck, whatever) and a successful attack roll means you hit it. Any other type of incapacitating called shot is adjudicated with the special attack rules - a called shot to the hand = a disarm, a called shot to the foot = a trip, etc.

The mechanical reason is that it is far too easy to kill someone simply by taking a -4 penalty to your attack roll, especially combined with True Strike. (I attack the dragon's throat... and I cast True Strike... where's my EXP?)

Edit:http://www.d20srd.org/cgi-bin/search.cgi?metaname=&search_config=www_d20srd_org&query=%22called+shot%22&docpath=0&sort=swishrank&submit=Search

Proof that Called Shot does not exist in 3.5
Aratex
01-21-07, 02:56 PM Called shots do not exist in 3.5.

Huh, I never noticed that before. I kept them because I liked them, but for balance reasons, I limit what they do.

A called shot to the neck, for example, would make it difficult to speak and/or cast for a brief period, but unless it's a confirmed critical, the head stays on.
Escef
01-21-07, 03:03 PM There are no called shots in the game as written, and we strongly advise against using them.

If your player wants called shots in the game, fine, humor him. Than have him confront a bunch of low level monsters (say, kobalds or goblins) who used ranged attacks to called shot his eyes. Once his character is blind ask him if he thinks called shots are a good idea.
Forgedwar
01-21-07, 03:08 PM Wow, thanks, I was worried, he was killing stuff with out even trying, on another note, he has a whip covered in blades and he says it does 2d6 plus his strength modifier, I know this is crazy, because he cant show mw where this is, and thats like having a great sword that can hit something from range.
Crimson_Concerto
01-21-07, 03:10 PM This player is making a lot of stuff up and has betrayed your trust. Never let him do anything again unless he can show you exactly where he got it from in an official D&D book of whatever edition it is you're playing (I'm assuming 3.5?).
Pyrocidius
01-21-07, 03:17 PM Your player is using you. there is no such item. called shots are no more. he is a complete liar and i'd advise a horrible and untimely death of the character followed by eviction from the group.

also, if you can manage it, i'd suggest shooting him. in the face. with a hammer.
Aratex
01-21-07, 03:19 PM Wow, thanks, I was worried, he was killing stuff with out even trying, on another note, he has a whip covered in blades and he says it does 2d6 plus his strength modifier, I know this is crazy, because he cant show mw where this is, and thats like having a great sword that can hit something from range.

The closest thing I can find to that is a Mighty Whip Dagger from Arms and Equipment, except that it only does 1d6 and you're limited by how much str bonus you can add to damage (just like mighty bows).

In the future, if someone can't show it to you in a book, don't take their word for it. :)
Dire_Rhino
01-21-07, 03:20 PM Hmm... That depends. A reach-inclusive, 2H dealing 2d6, 20x2 (non-finessable) would be powerful, but still balanced. If the critical range is any larger or he could use it one handed, it wouldn't be. (Unless it's exotic)

The solution? Either talk to him about it and see if he'll change weapons, or once your kobolds see how easily their first guy got killed they'll step back and load crossbows. Or, if you want to be really, really mean, a phalanx - first row of baddies carries tower shields, granting total cover to the guys behind them (no whip attacks). The guys behind them have longspears. The only way to hurt this formation is to disrupt it via bull-rush or sundering a shield, or dropping a Fireball or other AoE spell into it.
Forgedwar
01-21-07, 03:27 PM This has happened to me several times, but I have wised up to it, he had that character from the first campaign I ever ran. I let everyone do whatever because of how excited I was. I didnt really get to realize how powerful it was because he quit early on. I neeeded another player, so I let him join in my latest campaign with his old character. His character is pretty insane. He is a dragon shaman, so he gets those continuing auras, he has plate mail (somehow at level 1), and no stats below 14.
Escef
01-21-07, 03:39 PM Forged, you haven't done a lot of DMing. I suggest you read all the advice threads around here (take a look at the stickied ones). I also recommend, if at all possible, you start a new game using core only (only stuff in the PHB, DMG, and MM). This will make auditing characters easier. I especially recommend keeping a close eye on whip boy. If he tries this kind of crap again I suggest you show him the door.
Aratex
01-21-07, 04:02 PM plate mail (somehow at level 1)

Full plate costs 1,500 gold. A dragon shaman begins with 4d4 x 10 gold (so 160 gold max).

I suggest you make your players create their characters while you watch, and then keep the character sheets between sessions.
Salla
01-21-07, 04:17 PM I suggest you make your players create their characters while you watch, and then keep the character sheets between sessions.

Seconded. This guy's a liar and a cheat, OR he's just really confused on how stuff works. At this point, I would recommend simply telling him he doesn't get anything that he can't show you in a book (not simply in print ... he could possibly find a download of some of this stuff on player sites or something), because he's been 'misrepresenting' the rules, then keep an eye on him.

You can always go three strikes, but it sounds like he's already got two.
Millennium
01-21-07, 04:22 PM The closest thing I can find to that is a Mighty Whip Dagger from Arms and Equipment, except that it only does 1d6 and you're limited by how much str bonus you can add to damage (just like mighty bows).
It sounds more to me like a nagaika, which is a whip with many tiny shards of glass embedded into it. I think it was in Sword and Fist, and although I don't remember the stats, I know they weren't 2d6+STR.
Derren S.
01-21-07, 04:28 PM Forged, no offense but do you actually read rulebooks? I suggest that as a beginner you should read the PHB and DMG untill you know at least the basics of the game rather well. Then whenever something comes up you don't know about look it up (depending on how important it is either after the game or in a pause).

While the problem here certainly is the cheating player you are also partially to blame because you didn't check the stuff you didn't knew about (and that you asked here shows that you had doubts about those things).
Forgedwar
01-21-07, 05:04 PM Thanks guys, I know it is mostly my fault for letting him do it in the first place.
Falln
01-21-07, 05:28 PM When you're a new DM:

Keep the books you're using easy: allow only PHB for players. And you use only DMG and MM. Don't allow players to use everything they can find. Some will buy unbalanced books, others will search the net voor netbooks, net-classes, ... Wile others will start to make things up.

You're the DM, so youd ecide what can and what can't be used in your world. If they use only things from the PHB there shouldn't be any problem. If they start to use other stuff: ask them where they found it.

You're the DM: you should know the rules. If you start with an easy campaign for low levels, you shouldn't worry too much. But it's allways good to train yourself in how combat works, what are the options for you as DM, which moves can PC's and NPC's make (like spear wall, bull rish, disarm, trip, ...)

Since you're DM you are very important to keep the campaign balanced and fun for everyone. If that player you've mentioned wants to play a guy with a whip, then give him some suggestions. Maybe he doesn't know the manuals either and he only makes things up because he doesn't know where he can find what he's looking for.

If you know the rules of the game, then players won't try to cheat you. If players cheat you on purpose, talk to them. DnD should be fun for everyone and if they lie they aren't only cheating to you but also to their other friends (PC's).

Good luck with your campaign.
Falln
01-21-07, 05:42 PM Maybe your friend is used to play 2nd ed so I did some research:

called should did exist in 2nd edition. It gave a -4 penalty to attack and it was only usefull to ignore some armors, like a knight who wasn't wearing a helm. It never did something additional besides ignoring armor.

A normal whip did 1d2 damage

A scourge is a whip that deals 1d4 damage.

Kau sin ke (whipping chain) was a whip which dealt 1d8 damage

Khurgorbaeyag (Lesser God) had a whip that dealt 2d6 damage
Forgedwar
01-21-07, 05:58 PM I made suggestion for other whip, and he kind of just ignored it, I will be talking to him our nexy session.
^Graff_EpsilonIX
01-21-07, 06:17 PM Also, the second edition DMG states that called shots cannot do extra physical harm, due to the nature of the hit point system not being location based.
ArcTan
01-21-07, 10:10 PM The closest thing I can find to that is a Mighty Whip Dagger from Arms and Equipment, except that it only does 1d6 and you're limited by how much str bonus you can add to damage (just like mighty bows).

If it uses the idea of mighty bows, then it's officially obsolete as of D&D 3.5.

Anyway, nothing in an official product is guaranteed to be balanced. You still have to vet these things, and it's completely up to you what you allow in your game. Even if it *is* in a book, that doesn't mean you should allow it. The whole point of Pun-Pun was to prove this point.
ArcTan
01-21-07, 10:12 PM This has happened to me several times, but I have wised up to it, he had that character from the first campaign I ever ran. I let everyone do whatever because of how excited I was. I didnt really get to realize how powerful it was because he quit early on. I neeeded another player, so I let him join in my latest campaign with his old character. His character is pretty insane. He is a dragon shaman, so he gets those continuing auras, he has plate mail (somehow at level 1), and no stats below 14.

The plate mail is impossible -- there's a rule for how much starting gold a level 1 character has, based on character class.

The stats thing is *especially* impossible. Are you using point-buy? Are you checking the way they're spending their points and using the rules for increasing point costs?

If you are, instead, rolling (something I don't really recommend), make them roll *in front of you* -- or, better yet, *you* roll, give them the scores (this way you can fudge and reroll if you get a really unbalancingly awesome or unbalancingly awful set of scores) and tell them to arrange the scores as they choose.
ZolDarklock
01-21-07, 10:12 PM the ole 2e Fighters handbook had an excellent way to handle called shots, what they can do, and specials applied...

called shot to a neck...hmmmm I think that is more a -8 to -12 roll, and for a wrap around the neck, not possible unless weapon itself is capable of such a thing, and then possible another roll to see if that is exactly what it did
Aryxbez
01-22-07, 06:39 PM I don't let such a rule since it purely pointless
I am not going to repeat since Dire_Rhino said what needed to be said

If I would use the called shot it would harsh
consisting of a base penalty of -8 to the attack and -10
or something to the head and then it would provoke a special
attack of opportunity from the other guy which this attack doesn't count as one of their attack of opportunity for the round and if the attack hits the special effect fails also this attack and all it does is make them have the associated penalties
in the DMG like being damaged in the neck only makes you
not able to speak until healed or movement halved if hit in foot

So as thus it is not even worth it.
Archangel62
01-22-07, 06:47 PM Huh, I never noticed that before. I kept them because I liked them, but for balance reasons, I limit what they do.

A called shot to the neck, for example, would make it difficult to speak and/or cast for a brief period, but unless it's a confirmed critical, the head stays on.

Hrm....maybe I could create a lesser version of that using the ambush feats as a guideline.
wrecan
01-23-07, 08:42 AM Wrecan's Quick and Dirty Called Shots

Called Shot to Weapon: Sunder
Called Shot to Arm: Disarm
Called Shot to Leg: Trip
Called Shot to Privates: Critical Hit/Power Attack

To allow ranged called shots, use the Ranged Sunder/Disarm/Trip/Power Throw Feats from the Complete books.

In D&D there should never be a one-shot kill unless you're an assassin.
Dunsel
01-23-07, 12:12 PM If you discover the items is illegal, I suggest the following option. Don't let on to the player you dislike his whip in your campaign or he will be furious when you have it taken from him.

A weapon like that might attract the attention of a very good rogue. A couple easy checks later and the whip has a new master.

Of course, let them find out about the theft through a "witness" from the crowd. They discover the thief's name and find out he is in the employee of a powerful NPC they cannot possibly defeat for a couple more levels. Therebye making an adventure about the whip or the player lets it go.

Either way, the whip is not in your campaign for a while.
Salla
01-23-07, 01:19 PM If it uses the idea of mighty bows, then it's officially obsolete as of D&D 3.5.

Uhm ... you can still have mighty composite bows.
Sereno
01-23-07, 01:35 PM In D&D there should never be a one-shot kill unless you're an assassin.

What about the 20-20-20? I know a lot of groups still use that one ... it happens so rarely, that it *can* actually add some fun to the game. My own character has been on both the receiving and giving end of one of these....

I'll admit, it was much less fun dying from a 20-20-20 than it was to kill a bad guy with one! :)
wrecan
01-23-07, 01:39 PM That just triggers my absolute hatred for mucking about with the critical hit rules.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Forgedwar 01-21-07, 02:46 PM	My Player keeps using called shot. He says that it just puts a -4 on his attack roll. He used it to wrap a creature around the waist with a bladed whip. Then he said that it would take a further amount of damage if it moved. Is this right? He also called a shot around the neck and choked the creature, can he do this?
Aratex 01-21-07, 02:54 PM	He can make a called shot at a -4 penalty. He can't tell the DM what happens to the target when he does so. A called shot to the neck will hit the neck if it hits, but it's up to you if it wraps around and grips.
Dire_Rhino 01-21-07, 02:54 PM	RAW, no. Called shots do not exist in 3.5. The generally accepted explanation is that you're always trying to hit the most vulnerable spot (waist, neck, whatever) and a successful attack roll means you hit it. Any other type of incapacitating called shot is adjudicated with the special attack rules - a called shot to the hand = a disarm, a called shot to the foot = a trip, etc. The mechanical reason is that it is far too easy to kill someone simply by taking a -4 penalty to your attack roll, especially combined with True Strike. (I attack the dragon's throat... and I cast True Strike... where's my EXP?) Edit:http://www.d20srd.org/cgi-bin/search.cgi?metaname=&search_config=www_d20srd_org&query=%22called+shot%22&docpath=0&sort=swishrank&submit=Search Proof that Called Shot does not exist in 3.5
Aratex 01-21-07, 02:56 PM	Called shots do not exist in 3.5. Huh, I never noticed that before. I kept them because I liked them, but for balance reasons, I limit what they do. A called shot to the neck, for example, would make it difficult to speak and/or cast for a brief period, but unless it's a confirmed critical, the head stays on.
Escef 01-21-07, 03:03 PM	There are no called shots in the game as written, and we strongly advise against using them. If your player wants called shots in the game, fine, humor him. Than have him confront a bunch of low level monsters (say, kobalds or goblins) who used ranged attacks to called shot his eyes. Once his character is blind ask him if he thinks called shots are a good idea.
Forgedwar 01-21-07, 03:08 PM	Wow, thanks, I was worried, he was killing stuff with out even trying, on another note, he has a whip covered in blades and he says it does 2d6 plus his strength modifier, I know this is crazy, because he cant show mw where this is, and thats like having a great sword that can hit something from range.
Crimson_Concerto 01-21-07, 03:10 PM	This player is making a lot of stuff up and has betrayed your trust. Never let him do anything again unless he can show you exactly where he got it from in an official D&D book of whatever edition it is you're playing (I'm assuming 3.5?).
Pyrocidius 01-21-07, 03:17 PM	Your player is using you. there is no such item. called shots are no more. he is a complete liar and i'd advise a horrible and untimely death of the character followed by eviction from the group. also, if you can manage it, i'd suggest shooting him. in the face. with a hammer.
Aratex 01-21-07, 03:19 PM	Wow, thanks, I was worried, he was killing stuff with out even trying, on another note, he has a whip covered in blades and he says it does 2d6 plus his strength modifier, I know this is crazy, because he cant show mw where this is, and thats like having a great sword that can hit something from range. The closest thing I can find to that is a Mighty Whip Dagger from Arms and Equipment, except that it only does 1d6 and you're limited by how much str bonus you can add to damage (just like mighty bows). In the future, if someone can't show it to you in a book, don't take their word for it. :)
Dire_Rhino 01-21-07, 03:20 PM	Hmm... That depends. A reach-inclusive, 2H dealing 2d6, 20x2 (non-finessable) would be powerful, but still balanced. If the critical range is any larger or he could use it one handed, it wouldn't be. (Unless it's exotic) The solution? Either talk to him about it and see if he'll change weapons, or once your kobolds see how easily their first guy got killed they'll step back and load crossbows. Or, if you want to be really, really mean, a phalanx - first row of baddies carries tower shields, granting total cover to the guys behind them (no whip attacks). The guys behind them have longspears. The only way to hurt this formation is to disrupt it via bull-rush or sundering a shield, or dropping a Fireball or other AoE spell into it.
Forgedwar 01-21-07, 03:27 PM	This has happened to me several times, but I have wised up to it, he had that character from the first campaign I ever ran. I let everyone do whatever because of how excited I was. I didnt really get to realize how powerful it was because he quit early on. I neeeded another player, so I let him join in my latest campaign with his old character. His character is pretty insane. He is a dragon shaman, so he gets those continuing auras, he has plate mail (somehow at level 1), and no stats below 14.
Escef 01-21-07, 03:39 PM	Forged, you haven't done a lot of DMing. I suggest you read all the advice threads around here (take a look at the stickied ones). I also recommend, if at all possible, you start a new game using core only (only stuff in the PHB, DMG, and MM). This will make auditing characters easier. I especially recommend keeping a close eye on whip boy. If he tries this kind of crap again I suggest you show him the door.
Aratex 01-21-07, 04:02 PM	plate mail (somehow at level 1) Full plate costs 1,500 gold. A dragon shaman begins with 4d4 x 10 gold (so 160 gold max). I suggest you make your players create their characters while you watch, and then keep the character sheets between sessions.
Salla 01-21-07, 04:17 PM	I suggest you make your players create their characters while you watch, and then keep the character sheets between sessions. Seconded. This guy's a liar and a cheat, OR he's just really confused on how stuff works. At this point, I would recommend simply telling him he doesn't get anything that he can't show you in a book (not simply in print ... he could possibly find a download of some of this stuff on player sites or something), because he's been 'misrepresenting' the rules, then keep an eye on him. You can always go three strikes, but it sounds like he's already got two.
Millennium 01-21-07, 04:22 PM	The closest thing I can find to that is a Mighty Whip Dagger from Arms and Equipment, except that it only does 1d6 and you're limited by how much str bonus you can add to damage (just like mighty bows). It sounds more to me like a nagaika, which is a whip with many tiny shards of glass embedded into it. I think it was in Sword and Fist, and although I don't remember the stats, I know they weren't 2d6+STR.
Derren S. 01-21-07, 04:28 PM	Forged, no offense but do you actually read rulebooks? I suggest that as a beginner you should read the PHB and DMG untill you know at least the basics of the game rather well. Then whenever something comes up you don't know about look it up (depending on how important it is either after the game or in a pause). While the problem here certainly is the cheating player you are also partially to blame because you didn't check the stuff you didn't knew about (and that you asked here shows that you had doubts about those things).
Forgedwar 01-21-07, 05:04 PM	Thanks guys, I know it is mostly my fault for letting him do it in the first place.
Falln 01-21-07, 05:28 PM	When you're a new DM: Keep the books you're using easy: allow only PHB for players. And you use only DMG and MM. Don't allow players to use everything they can find. Some will buy unbalanced books, others will search the net voor netbooks, net-classes, ... Wile others will start to make things up. You're the DM, so youd ecide what can and what can't be used in your world. If they use only things from the PHB there shouldn't be any problem. If they start to use other stuff: ask them where they found it. You're the DM: you should know the rules. If you start with an easy campaign for low levels, you shouldn't worry too much. But it's allways good to train yourself in how combat works, what are the options for you as DM, which moves can PC's and NPC's make (like spear wall, bull rish, disarm, trip, ...) Since you're DM you are very important to keep the campaign balanced and fun for everyone. If that player you've mentioned wants to play a guy with a whip, then give him some suggestions. Maybe he doesn't know the manuals either and he only makes things up because he doesn't know where he can find what he's looking for. If you know the rules of the game, then players won't try to cheat you. If players cheat you on purpose, talk to them. DnD should be fun for everyone and if they lie they aren't only cheating to you but also to their other friends (PC's). Good luck with your campaign.
Falln 01-21-07, 05:42 PM	Maybe your friend is used to play 2nd ed so I did some research: called should did exist in 2nd edition. It gave a -4 penalty to attack and it was only usefull to ignore some armors, like a knight who wasn't wearing a helm. It never did something additional besides ignoring armor. A normal whip did 1d2 damage A scourge is a whip that deals 1d4 damage. Kau sin ke (whipping chain) was a whip which dealt 1d8 damage Khurgorbaeyag (Lesser God) had a whip that dealt 2d6 damage
Forgedwar 01-21-07, 05:58 PM	I made suggestion for other whip, and he kind of just ignored it, I will be talking to him our nexy session.
^Graff_EpsilonIX 01-21-07, 06:17 PM	Also, the second edition DMG states that called shots cannot do extra physical harm, due to the nature of the hit point system not being location based.
ArcTan 01-21-07, 10:10 PM	The closest thing I can find to that is a Mighty Whip Dagger from Arms and Equipment, except that it only does 1d6 and you're limited by how much str bonus you can add to damage (just like mighty bows). If it uses the idea of mighty bows, then it's officially obsolete as of D&D 3.5. Anyway, nothing in an official product is guaranteed to be balanced. You still have to vet these things, and it's completely up to you what you allow in your game. Even if it is in a book, that doesn't mean you should allow it. The whole point of Pun-Pun was to prove this point.
ArcTan 01-21-07, 10:12 PM	This has happened to me several times, but I have wised up to it, he had that character from the first campaign I ever ran. I let everyone do whatever because of how excited I was. I didnt really get to realize how powerful it was because he quit early on. I neeeded another player, so I let him join in my latest campaign with his old character. His character is pretty insane. He is a dragon shaman, so he gets those continuing auras, he has plate mail (somehow at level 1), and no stats below 14. The plate mail is impossible -- there's a rule for how much starting gold a level 1 character has, based on character class. The stats thing is especially impossible. Are you using point-buy? Are you checking the way they're spending their points and using the rules for increasing point costs? If you are, instead, rolling (something I don't really recommend), make them roll in front of you -- or, better yet, you roll, give them the scores (this way you can fudge and reroll if you get a really unbalancingly awesome or unbalancingly awful set of scores) and tell them to arrange the scores as they choose.
ZolDarklock 01-21-07, 10:12 PM	the ole 2e Fighters handbook had an excellent way to handle called shots, what they can do, and specials applied... called shot to a neck...hmmmm I think that is more a -8 to -12 roll, and for a wrap around the neck, not possible unless weapon itself is capable of such a thing, and then possible another roll to see if that is exactly what it did
Aryxbez 01-22-07, 06:39 PM	I don't let such a rule since it purely pointless I am not going to repeat since Dire_Rhino said what needed to be said If I would use the called shot it would harsh consisting of a base penalty of -8 to the attack and -10 or something to the head and then it would provoke a special attack of opportunity from the other guy which this attack doesn't count as one of their attack of opportunity for the round and if the attack hits the special effect fails also this attack and all it does is make them have the associated penalties in the DMG like being damaged in the neck only makes you not able to speak until healed or movement halved if hit in foot So as thus it is not even worth it.
Archangel62 01-22-07, 06:47 PM	Huh, I never noticed that before. I kept them because I liked them, but for balance reasons, I limit what they do. A called shot to the neck, for example, would make it difficult to speak and/or cast for a brief period, but unless it's a confirmed critical, the head stays on. Hrm....maybe I could create a lesser version of that using the ambush feats as a guideline.
wrecan 01-23-07, 08:42 AM	Wrecan's Quick and Dirty Called Shots Called Shot to Weapon: Sunder Called Shot to Arm: Disarm Called Shot to Leg: Trip Called Shot to Privates: Critical Hit/Power Attack To allow ranged called shots, use the Ranged Sunder/Disarm/Trip/Power Throw Feats from the Complete books. In D&D there should never be a one-shot kill unless you're an assassin.
Dunsel 01-23-07, 12:12 PM	If you discover the items is illegal, I suggest the following option. Don't let on to the player you dislike his whip in your campaign or he will be furious when you have it taken from him. A weapon like that might attract the attention of a very good rogue. A couple easy checks later and the whip has a new master. Of course, let them find out about the theft through a "witness" from the crowd. They discover the thief's name and find out he is in the employee of a powerful NPC they cannot possibly defeat for a couple more levels. Therebye making an adventure about the whip or the player lets it go. Either way, the whip is not in your campaign for a while.
Salla 01-23-07, 01:19 PM	If it uses the idea of mighty bows, then it's officially obsolete as of D&D 3.5. Uhm ... you can still have mighty composite bows.
Sereno 01-23-07, 01:35 PM	In D&D there should never be a one-shot kill unless you're an assassin. What about the 20-20-20? I know a lot of groups still use that one ... it happens so rarely, that it can actually add some fun to the game. My own character has been on both the receiving and giving end of one of these.... I'll admit, it was much less fun dying from a 20-20-20 than it was to kill a bad guy with one! :)
wrecan 01-23-07, 01:39 PM	That just triggers my absolute hatred for mucking about with the critical hit rules.