Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Slider33 02-03-05, 05:32 PM	I came pretty close to calling it quits. This was one bad day for me: DM'ing is one of the hardest things I have ever done, for a great many reasons. But I think the biggest challenge I have faced is struggling with the type of personality that I have, vs. what I need to do as a DM. It's quite frustrating actually. This DM'ing is tricky stuff for me, but I have a blast doing it, until stuff like this comes up. I came close to just saying "screw it" and just stop DM'ing. I'll try to tell the story as best I can but I don't even know where to begin. I don't know how you veterans do it so well, I'm guessing at times everyone comes to a bump in the road or whatever. But I know that all that grace and skill comes with a lot of experience am I right? Not many are instantly phenomenal at something overnight.. I mean, look at the issues we have to deal with? We have to provide "the fun", which is a huge responsibility. We have to try to keep everyone happy, we have to provide the entertainment (for those DM's who don't have players that entertain themselves). We have to deal with players of a huge range of personality types, AND deal with players with a huge range of different play styles. We have to moderate when players don't get along with each other (babysit them sometimes). We are responsible for content, we have to know the rules (very well), and we have to come up with rules when there aren't any. We have to deal with powergaming, munchkins, metagaming, you name it. We have to create the world, the npc's, the monsters, and roleplay them at the same time. We have to enforce the rules, we have to calculate the xp, the treasure, the maps, the plot, etc. All while trying to pull all the pieces together so the world seems real to the players, and trying to have fun and letting them have fun at the same time. All the while we have to worry about giving the players enough freedom, not railroading (too much or too little), we have to work at making the game **balanced**, challenging them, being too strict or not strict enough. Some of us are too nice and some are jerks. The list goes on and on, I could keep going. Some DM's may not put too much stock into some of those issues, but I'm the kind of person that really likes to please everyone, and when I can't do that it frustrates me. And I am a nice guy, so sometimes I have to come out of my shell or have a certain disposition that my personality isn’t really accustomed to, especially around my close friends, which happen to be my players. It’s a challenge for me at times. No matter how many DnD sessions I DM for, it's always something NEW that comes up, some new learning experience, and it never ceases to amaze me how it ALWAYS catches me off guard! It's always one of those situations you just KNOW went wrong, you know why it went wrong but for some reason didn't do what you should have done right then and there. (Partially blaming this on how blindsided I was by the whole situation.) There were a hundred things I shoulda/coulda/woulda done, but it's too late for that. I will just will have to learn from the mistake and try not to make it again. Matter of fact I'd rather not even think about what I should have done or said because it just irritates me, I know I made mistakes, it happens right? Anyway, enough of that I'll finally get to the point. It really wasn't a huge deal, but I took it very personally and it just flat out made me mad, with a big dose of embarassment to top it all off. I got this one player, all he cares about is combat, and it's got to keep moving….fast. Action oriented, gets bored easily with other mundane stuff. He needs to fight, he needs a dungeon crawl, and sometimes, if combat isn't exciting or deadly enough he'll even get bored with that. Basically if he was DM'ing he probably wouldn't even use any rules, if it was too complicated of a maneuver he'd most likely roll a d% or two and be done with it. This guy is my nightmare to DM, I can't seem to please him, and frankly that's fine. I know his style, but I'm not going to change my style just to fit his needs. What makes matters worse, he's a good friend of mine. He's not a bad guy or anything, but he's bossy and authoritative (to everyone, including friends). It’s simply the way he is but he’s not a bad guy at all. The reason I DM the way I do, is simply that's the way I'm going to do it, and it makes me angry when he tries to tell me how to run the game. So, I simply don't let him. I do it my way and I make that clear. At least I've been good about not letting him push me around. Granted, sometimes it goes kinda slow, but DnD can be like that sometimes. This guy really likes to manipulate people, and would really like to just run the tempo of the game all by himself (as a player of course). What I’m trying to say is, when something comes along that takes some thinking and some time he’d rather cut corners and make up quick-rules to get through it, and he suggests that every time too. I didn't spend countless hours pouring over the rules and books to just throw them to the wind when something gets a little tricky, or might take a little patience for crying out loud. So, I learn a little something new about him each time I play, and no matter how prepared I am to deal with whatever demeanor, or issue he threw at me in the previous sessions, something new will come up. I've dealt with the bossiness and fixed it, I've dealt with him getting bored with combat and fixed it, etc. etc. And each time it irritated me but I learned. So, what made me so frigging angry last time? It felt like the last straw, if it weren't for recent circumstances that I'll get to later. I worked my butt off, writing up a plot, coming up with a world and a story and a little content. I even did what a good DM would do and made sure it was open and flexible to whatever path they may choose. I made sure I wasn't railroading too much and all that stuff. The session was pretty slow, not much combat occurred during the adventure this time, mostly because they were frigging lost out in the wilderness just trying to survive for a big portion of the session. I should have known he wasn't going to enjoy the session because there wasn't constant action, but as you other DM's may know, there is A LOT of things that you have to juggle in your mind while facilitating the game, and dealing with your players right? So of course I'm usually too busy to be prepared for everything. So, it gets down to where the plot thickens a little bit, where I was going to implement the storyline that I had worked so hard developing. I wanted it to be good, but the mood and tone were completely ruined. He made a snide remark about "camping too much" or whatever, and proceeded to make jokes and laugh *as* I was reading the description/dialogue of the scenario they were in. Completely made a fool out of me I was furious, and no, it wasn't in-character or anything I took it completely personal. The guy can be a reaal $$$hole sometimes. I can take a little friendly ribbing but this was his sneaky way of saying your campaign sucks. It completely blindsided me too, I never even saw it coming. Not a word of complaint the entire game and up until the most important part and he just ruined it all. It may have seemed harmless to him, maybe it was. But to me it was like he couldn't care less about the story I had written out. As long as he's been my friend he pulls some real stupid crap sometimes. I just lost my cool, I froze and I was fuming. I didn't even *consider* doing something in-game to his character at the time, I was that mad. I basically told them in a very loud manner to shut up so I could at least finish going through my descriptions and dialog. I was injured, and humiliated, I just wanted to limp through the rest of my material so I could get it over with. I put myself out on a limb and leave myself exposed because I *trusted* my friends at least you know? So much for that. Plus, I didn't want to penalize the other players for this, and ruin the whole story for them (and my work) by just TPK'ing. He's a short timer, won't be there much longer so I just chose to endure the humiliation and go on with it to salvage what is left of my plot. All in all, it was a horrible day for me I felt both betrayed and embarrassed. I'm hoping it wasn't as big of a deal as I took it, maybe it just was some harmless ribbing from a friend but that doesn't change the fact that I worked hard on it. They all knew I was mad, I probably didn't have to say anything else I got my point across how upset I was. So, all in all it really doesn't matter, he's moving away and won't be joining us again anyway. He's a good friend and all, but I know he can be a jerk sometimes. No one's perfect. The problem is I can't ever see it coming ya know, just comes outta nowhere. And to me, it wasn't just "about the game" it was just flat out rude and inconsiderate. So, it really burned me on DM'ing, but the good thing is, my other players are not like him. They are nice and respectful and also good friends of mine. And they told me they enjoyed the storyline at least, even if there wasn't non-stop action/combat going on. So perhaps it wasn't a total train wreck. At least I don't have to worry about what he'll throw at me next, that chapter is closed. To be honest I don't know if I would want to DM for him anymore after that. So I came close to calling it quits it wasn't worth it anymore. I'm just relieved I won't have to worry about stuff like that, my other players have never given me any problems. Anyway, I know this was extremely long, but I JUST HAD TO RANT!! :) So, if you've read this far I thank you for listening and I do hope to get some response and some insight to these situations. And yes, I've heard some worse ones out there too.... I've learned a lot as a DM, but I know that I have a really long way to go still. Thanks again and sorry about the length!! Good luck to the rest of you! :)
Board_Rider 02-03-05, 06:00 PM	Yeah that sucks the high hard one buddy.... This friend of yours sounds like an immature baby. You handled it better than I would. It's too bad that this may ruin the memory of your friendship. It's bad when you put yourself out there and get laughed at. Good luck in the future.
Asciiman 02-03-05, 06:14 PM	Yeah.... that does suck. I've been dming for about 12 years now, half my life, and I still have moments like that. Trust me on this though, when it is good, almost nothing beats the DM's chair. One bad encounter like this should not ever, EVER ruin you from it forever. Besides, the world needs more DMs like you. "All the while we have to worry about giving the players enough freedom, not railroading (too much or too little), we have to work at making the game **balanced**, challenging them, being too strict or not strict enough." This is all I needed to know if you were a good DM or not. I'd love to play in your games. You know what you are doing. Trust me on that too.
11d7 02-03-05, 07:06 PM	I used to play with a guy just like your rude, inconsiterate, immature, thick skulled, brain dead smashy everything, freind, player. Now I dont know how old you are but the guy I used to play with is 15 so that explains a little but I played before I was 15 and didnt act like a retard (but most people my age did). I feel so sorry for you. I suggest making sure he never gets back to your game table.
MrSancho 02-03-05, 07:15 PM	Slider, I know exactly how you feel man, I once ran a party with a guy just like your friend and he did something very similar to me during the final adventure of our campaign (one that I had been running for almost a year and a half!) I felt really down after an of the cuff remark he made about the game in general, resisting the urge to hit him with a lamp I just told him to leave the table and sure enough he left. He came back like and hour later and apologized to the group and myself. So the morale of the story is stick with it and if the guy ever comes back to visit and wants to game, just have him DM, he'll see it's not so easy!
UltimateReality 02-03-05, 07:39 PM	I think a lot of the problem with those "off the cuff" remarks players make is that they don't REALIZE how much time and effort we DMs put into designing this stuff. I've only really prepared an adventure and a half, and wow did it give me a whole new respect for my DM...especially considering that in that group there was tons of interparty conflict (IG and OOG). Designing a campaign is a part-time job. It's not always interesting, it's hard work, and it takes a lot of creative effort to make it interesting for both you and the players. You have to think five different ways to figure out what your players will most likely do, you have to think a dozen different ways at once to figure out how the NPCs are going to react. Of course, when you're designing a campaign at least you're by yourself and no one else can rag on you. When you get to the actual players, suddenly there's a whole lot more to deal with. I've been lucky in that so far, my players have been reasonable and respectful (not necessarily of me, but of the time and effort I put into this) and -- importantly -- vocally appreciative of the work (okay, so it's fun too!) I do for them. The best line I've found to use on a player who consistantly devalues the DM's work is this: "okay, YOU come up with something better. See you next week, let us know what source material we can use for out characters." Almost guaranteed they will either shut up, or show up next week saying they didn't have enough time to write anything. I would suggest to anyone having problems with unappreciative players to explain to them exactly how many hours go into making a campaign. For this adventure alone, which is taking my PCs from levels 3 to 5, I spent three hours calculating out the total wealth and experience they already had, how much they needed, and distributing it all properly. I have a very fuzzy order of events sketched out, and most of my encounters in order (had to make sure they wouldn't overwhelm the party OR be a cakewalk). But I still need to do stats, descriptions, NPC personality/backgrounds, and flesh out that storyline a bit more. All this should take me at least another week, assuming I put in a couple hours straight each night. And let's not forget that I need to fit that in around my university classes, work, general housekeeping, and volunteering I do as well.
Habronicus 02-03-05, 08:39 PM	Slider, I don't get you... you say, more than once, in your rant that he's your friend, when he clearly doesn't sound like a friend at all. Let me tell you my perspective on friendship: it involves respect. At the very least, he should have apologised for what he did. If he's not the kind who apologises, then he doesn't know how to be a good friend and would do well to learn before people wise up and leave him to joke around with himself. Seriously, that guy sounds like he deserved to see the leg of chair up close and personal. I'm surprised none of the other players thought of that... I mean... it's not like I condone violence at the table but... heh... right. Anyway, if it's worth something, I don't think it was your fault. You sound like the kind of GM I like (story-oriented) and that's a rare gift, so hang in there. Don't deprive other people from savoring that side of D&D. It's that player of yours who's a typical example of what a bad player is all about. You're lucky that you're going to get rid of him.
Farland 02-03-05, 10:27 PM	I've been DMing for many years and I still have angry moments and moments somewhat similar to yours. He was so out of line. So don't invite him back, but don't let it ruin DnD for you.
Jason_Vorhees 13 02-03-05, 10:29 PM	I just lost a PC like that, he doesn't know it yet but I'll hit him hard with it (in that metephorical kind of way, not physical), he was a "friend" for awhile, then he took another PC's girlfriend (all my PCs are friends), I just found out about it today, and nobody, and I MEAN NOBODY does something like what he did to a friend (I haven't heard his side but I know it will be somekind of "I didn't know they were dating." crap), he really ****** me off in afew adventures, he always had to fight something, in his opinion plots are only good as reasons to fight, and after making a plot that took me about a week to think of he will come up with crack pot theories about the plot, and if he's completly wrong then I changed it (in his opinion), also anytime that he tries something that dosn't work, it's my fault "You just gave his armor spell resistance so my meteor swarm wouldn't work.", he was areal pain, for the past year of playing he has questioned me time and time again, and I always tried to keep my cool. This "friend" of yours reminds me of my "Friend" and trust me, losing your cool is normal. My PC even tried to give me DM tips, and the only times he ever DMed was to focus on my PC, he tried to make my PC a deity once even though I didn't want to, just because he thought I would then allow him to become a deity. They try to DM their way because they think that the other PCs will like it (even though they don't). Sorry your still friends when he's moving, but one good side is you lose a bad PC, and if you can last this long with one of those PCs, then you sure as heck can last longer without one.
HomebrewedMonster 02-03-05, 10:47 PM	Ok, I would like to start this off by annoucing that I am a DM and completely agree that some of us do not get the respect that we deserve. For making an adventure for a min/max twink to bull rush through still takes quite a bit of time and effort. Now back at hand, I do not mean to offend Slider but you make it sound a little selfish. Everytime that you use the word DM, you are refering to yourself. What you need to do is stop feeling sorry for yourself and just tell this guy, "Shut up or you leave." If he has a problem with it, fine, he's a friend I would not mind loosing. Also I would talk to the other players, if your intimidated by this guy try to get the other players to back you up. I know you have made reference that this guy is manipulative, so what, stand your ground. All I can say is if your this passinate about your DMing, then tell this guy to shove off.
striderII 02-03-05, 10:47 PM	I have to agree with several of the other posters...you certainly sound like you have a good head on your shoulders in regards to roleplay and the responsibilties and duties of a DM. Keep it up - don't let one guy put you down, man. It happens, even to use old-timers. You're right, though...experience will show you how to handle things in different ways - sometimes, depending on the player, ways that they have no rebuttal to, that they don't have a comeback to. This guy, while you may think he's your friend, isn't treating you with even basic respect. It's good he's leaving the table, as you really don't need him there. Quality over quantity is my motto. That all being said...how long have you played/DM'd? You didn't say in your original post. strider
green_yawgmoth 02-03-05, 11:08 PM	If I had a player pull any of what that guy pulled, not only would he be exiled from my game, but I would make sure he would be exiled from every D&D game in the region. He doesn't sound like a good friend, he sounds like a hyperactive, inconsiderate ass. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
wildduck 02-03-05, 11:09 PM	Slider, sometimes life gives you lemons, but I encourage you as the others do, to keep going. In my group of friends we have traded off DMing for about 15 years. I didn't really start DMing seriously till about 8 years ago, but it was still the same group. One of the players, who is also a friend, has never been satisfied with any game. He never sets character goals, never tells us what he wants, just *****es and whines about the games being boring. Often he is happiest when in combat, but will never make a combat effective character (last couple characters were a bard, a very mediocre fighter and now a pretty reasonable thief). With each character the DMs (I DMed the fighter and the thief, another friend DMed the bard) try to give him appropriate challenges. I gave his thief a little midnight caper to emphasize his thief skills, but that didn't really exited him. The other DM has tried to make his bard into an important political figure, leading a reasonable force of men, but that hasn't gotten him exited either. All the while he complains about how hard things are, or why the DM won’t just give him something (like "Okay, just tell me how to get through this dungeon because I don't want to spend the time searching it"). So, I've asked him, Do you even like playing roleplaying games? He responds that he does. I've asked if he would like a different game? Maybe shadowrun, rifts, champions, cthulu, werewolf, mage, spycraft, etc. And he never wants to play anything but D because he doesn't want to learn another system. When he DMs the stories always move along pretty fast and there is a strong degree of railroading. As a player I don't really mind it, because I'm all about playing through the adventure and not asserting me freedom or independence over the universe. I've tried to run games more like his, thinking maybe that he would like that more, but either my style is just too different, or he doesn't even like games that run like his own. All in all, I love the guy, he is a great friend, but he is just never satisfied in game. He always complains, and often does so right in the middle of something important you are trying to tell the players. One if his main tactics is assaulting the DM with so many complaints that they finally give up and give him some reward. Generally the reward is nothing more that "stop your crying and get through the adventure" but it makes me as a DM feel really pathetic when I feel like I have to ask him to "endure" a session. So... in short, although I don't have the same kind of "friend" as you, I do have one that drives me crazy in game and has on a few occasions made me want to quit as well. wildduck
Chosen of the Dark Sun 02-03-05, 11:10 PM	Lets put it this way: if player was a PrC, jerk would be the main prerequisite. Seriously, players are $$$holes as a general rule. You can't be a PC without it. I've had moments like yours myself. I either tell the PCs to shut up, or I can just pack up and leave. Since none of them want that (I have most of the important books ;) ) they just shut up. The other option I give them is to do something better, namely, having me as a PC and doing something everyone will enjoy more than what I was doing. They are all fairly new to DMing, and make stupid mistakes whenever they do there own campaigns (I swear, I have to do more co-DMing than PCing, since I'm the only one who knows all the rules), they Dm for a while and leave it back to me.
Capt. Pixel 02-03-05, 11:46 PM	Slider - I could have written your post practically verbatim. There have been times over the decades that I would have gladly given the whole thing a good chuck. But you're too hard on yourself. You put a lot of good work and effort in creating a world and a 'reality' for you players to participate in. But that is only half the formula. The Players are responsible for their contribution too. If you have a player who's discontent, that's his/her problem. Let them deal with it. (If ALL your players are discontent, maybe it's time to hand over the DMG to another participant and let them take the heat for a bit.) If you, or anyone in the group is not enjoying the game, then they should not play the game. Because that's what it's all about - Enjoyment. From what you've said and how you explained your discontent it sounds like you care for and do a fine job as a DM. Keep it up. I'm nearly certain that the other Players in your group appreciate the effort you make to guide their game. :cool:
Blairconz 02-04-05, 01:43 AM	You call THAT losing your cool? I have come close to physical violence with my players for way less. Put the bad behind and kick that unpleasant fellow out. Remember: He's only hurting himself when he hurts others. I used to be a bit like that guy, so I know It's true. And I know how you feel, I'm sure anyone who has dm'ed does. Players can be the worst people on the planet at times. Especially those who haven't sat in the DM's position before. As I have said: Don't let one rotten experience put you off! :) You have my respect.
Habronicus 02-04-05, 08:57 AM	he took another PC's girlfriend (all my PCs are friends), I just found out about it today, and nobody, and I MEAN NOBODY does something like what he did to a friend (I haven't heard his side but I know it will be somekind of "I didn't know they were dating." crap) Sorry to meddle, but was that in-game or IRL? You said PC, instead of Player, so just wondering. If it was IRL, then consider this: women have will. If she switched boyfriends, it's because she wasn't in love with your friend in the first place. Just wanted to point this out because some people seem to forget it takes two to tango. Lets put it this way: if player was a PrC, jerk would be the main prerequisite. Seriously, players are $$$holes as a general rule. Are you trying to be funny, or you truly believe in this?
Mordmorgan the Mad 02-04-05, 10:13 AM	Lets put it this way: if player was a PrC, jerk would be the main prerequisite. Seriously, players are $$$holes as a general rule. Whoa, whoa, whoa! I feel sorry for you if that's been your experience, but it's just not true. I've played for 12 years and almost all of my players were fantastic. Little piece of advice: If all your players are jerks, pick better players.
HomebrewedMonster 02-04-05, 10:22 AM	Whoa, whoa, whoa! I feel sorry for you if that's been your experience, but it's just not true. I've played for 12 years and almost all of my players were fantastic. Little piece of advice: If all your players are jerks, pick better players. I agree with the good guy slayer.
alecthemad 02-04-05, 10:38 AM	I've been there a few times. It is tough. I once ran a campaign where the characters were looking for a lost god. The god had been killed but she had managed to transfer her essence onto a baby born just then. It manifested as a golden birthmark on his upper back. Well this kid turned out to be a bad seed and because of the essence of a god was a little more powerful than normal. So it came to the point in the campaign where I describe the bad guy. I mention the golden birthmark and one of my players says like a golden mole? Then the others start calling him Golden Moldy. Gah it aggravated me. I thought it was such a great idea. Well I just lost interest in that game. They would not take it seriously. But in the interveneing years I have learned to not invest myself so much into the stories. I am proud of them but I don't get upset if the players give and NPC or town a stupid name. I will incorporate it into the game as a derogatory term (or maybe an honorific) used by NPC's. I will use their jokes too. This makes the players feel involved. I do have some advice though. 1) Most people hate hearing box text read. They zone out, miss important details, make jokes, etc. If the text is important or long I make a copy (or two) for the group and let them read it. I take a bathroom break or get some food. In a published adventure I will summarize important details and only read the whole text if the players say they look at the room carefully. 2) Periodically ask your players where they think the adventure is going. It may surprise you how much they have guessed or how little they know. As the all knowing DM it is easy to forget the players only know what you tell them and forget some of that. 3) Award XP for roleplaying for furthering the story. If someone roleplayes a scene well or really gets into it (even if they can't roleplay well) I will give an immediate award of 100 to 1000 xp. This encourages players by letting them know what you like and gives immediate feedback. 4) Set some rules about joking and talking at the gaming table. The only people talking should be the ones playing the game. If people must talk have them go in a seperate room. I know this one sounds harsh but usually the bored people joke, if you let them walk away they will not be so disruptive. It keeps my game running very smoothly. 5) It may help to give your players a "The story so far" sheet listing the major events and major players. In this fashion they have a reference. 6) I like to give the players previews of where the games will go so they can look forward to it (or dread it). In my current game I plan for my players to start going to the planes around level 12ish. So I let them know at level 7 that the adventure would start having adventures on many different planes. 7) End your game with a cliff hanger every so often. At the end of last game I told the players "As you sit down for dinner a crash of lightning illuminates a figure in the window. Several rocks smash through the window followed by a spell. The room erupts in flame and sulfur. Hey see ya next time." They are very eager to start this fight.
Talon Blackhart 02-04-05, 10:48 AM	Slider: If you managed to keep your cool as well as you say you did, I admire your self control. In 4 years of DMing, I've had a few bad situations where I nearly quit. However, after much thinking and wondering, I decided that it was still worth it. Don't let one crap player ruin it for you. Especially if, as you say, he's not going to be playing with you any longer.
Bane 02-04-05, 10:55 AM	I had a player that was so bad, in the end I took a year long break from all things Dungeons & Dragons. I let everyone know why, went to get a soda, and he was eliminated from the group by the time I got back. Turns out he was irritating everyone, and it just took one person saying something to get the rest of the group to mention their grievances. I still took my year, as I was suffering from burnout too. Just last summer I started up again, and the players couldn't be happier. Turns out I'm the only one who's willing to invest the time into DMing.
Slider33 02-04-05, 05:37 PM	I want to thank everyone for all the great feedback, and all the words of encouragement. It means a LOT to me. I haven’t been DM’ing for very long, perhaps a little over a year, and we don’t get to play very often so the times that we do get to play involve a lot of high expectations and what not. Overall I’d say I’ve been a DM about 10 or 11 (long) sessions or so. So I’m pretty new at it, and my players also have the same amount of experience. You guys are 100% right, I totally agree… maybe he isn’t a very good friend. However, I don’t know if his intentions are malicious and destructive, or if it’s just his general demeanor and personality. Either way it makes him a very difficult person to deal with. He’s got to be the most competitive person I know; to him everything is a game, a competition for him against everybody else. He’s competing with everyone (for what I don’t know) about everything and at all times whether it be social, intellectual, etc. It must be exhausting! I just want to hang out with my friends, chill out, and be able to trust them without having to carry around all that baggage when trying to have fun. I think it’s finally come to the point in which his behavior has driven a wedge in our friendship. The trust is gone, and from what it seems has been replaced with disrespect. And like most of you have mentioned, that’s what friendship is all about, respect. I agree with that. To: Habronicus: Slider, I don't get you... you say, more than once, in your rant that he's your friend, when he clearly doesn't sound like a friend at all. Let me tell you my perspective on friendship: it involves respect. At the very least, he should have apologised for what he did. If he's not the kind who apologises, then he doesn't know how to be a good friend and would do well to learn before people wise up and leave him to joke around with himself. You are totally correct. Friendship is all about respect, and yes he should have apologized. It’s obvious I was mad and since he didn’t apologize right then and there I’d doubt it is ever going to happen. I think deep down inside he would apologize, but he’s got a stubborn pride thing going, so for some reason I’d seriously doubt he’d ever admit the mistake. I do feel lucky that I won’t have to put up with this anymore at least. To HomebrewedMonster: Now back at hand, I do not mean to offend Slider but you make it sound a little selfish. Everytime that you use the word DM, you are refering to yourself. What you need to do is stop feeling sorry for yourself and just tell this guy, "Shut up or you leave." If he has a problem with it, fine, he's a friend I would not mind loosing. Also I would talk to the other players, if your intimidated by this guy try to get the other players to back you up. I know you have made reference that this guy is manipulative, so what, stand your ground. All I can say is if your this passinate about your DMing, then tell this guy to shove off. ----- No worries, no offense taken. Although I’m not exactly sure how I came across as selfish, I’m not asking for much just a little respect and appreciation, especially from my long time friend. Or at least I thought he was a better friend than that but I’m realizing a lot of things now that I look at our friendship differently. And yeah, I was referring to myself in my post; I’m not assuming that everyone DM’s that way of course. But I do realize what you say, and I will move on. Maybe I’ll get a chance to bring it up sometime, if the subject of DnD is mentioned I’ll be able to confront him about it, but I don’t know if I’ll ever be the one to bring it up. I sent a follow up email after the session to the entire group mentioning it, but I’ve never got any response or discussion back from him on it. I’m not holding my breath. I’m just going to keep on going, and enjoy DM’ing for those players who like to play with me and enjoy the game and appreciate the effort I put in. To Capt. Pixel: But that is only half the formula. The Players are responsible for their contribution too. Wow, I never thought of it that way but you are absolutely right. The players really are responsible for their contribution. I think maybe it’s because of lack of experience as players along with my own lack of experience. This is something we’ll all be trying to work on for our next sessions. To Alecthemad: I do have some advice though. 1) Most people hate hearing box text read. They zone out, miss important details, make jokes, etc. If the text is important or long I make a copy (or two) for the group and let them read it. I take a bathroom break or get some food. That is VERY good advice and I’ll be sure to implement that advice next time I play. You’re right, the box text doesn’t quite work well. Plus that will force me into letting go of my “security blanket” and do some better on-the-fly role playing and storytelling. It will take some practice but this one is a lesson learned the hard way. And thanks so much for the other advice you gave (I didn’t quote all of it). Those are some very good approaches and I will definitely be incorporating those elements into our next games. It is much needed advice, thanks! Thanks again to everyone for your advice, insights, and kind words. It was a pretty tough situation because I have a lot of history with this guy, and we’ll see what happens I guess. I have a good feeling I got my point across to him, so the ball should be in his court, but I’ve made up my mind not to DM for him anymore, can’t trust him to be respectful like I thought. I guess overall, it seems to be turning out okay. My other players told me they were looking forward to what is going to happen next, and I can’t wait to come up with some really cool things for them!
bloodmoon138 03-06-05, 04:08 PM	this is the last post my comp will let me see... so i decided to put it on the top!!!
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 03-06-05, 04:49 PM	I have a former friend like that in my campaign. I've tried talking to him, I've tried shutting him out of certain parts of the game so that other players could actually have a CHANCE to have an adventure hook tossed their way and he just takes the tiller back. I have told him the campaign is not all about him, and he talks about a campaign he played in once in which the entire campaign was a quest to bring a dead character back and it was one of the best games he ever played in. So I'm killing off his character and kicking him out of my game. If the party wants to bring him back then he'll have his way... but I'll be damned if I let him stay in my game and hog the spotlight away from my other players and not even do anything while there. This is the powergaming, munchkin building, metagaming, non-character playing ******* I've been griping about before on these boards, and I will be DANCING when I kick him tomorrow...