Campaign Advice (splitting a high-level party) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Campaign Advice (splitting a high-level party) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AlphaSquirell
11-13-05, 06:40 PM I'm working on a plot for my campaign. I'm running printed D&D modules (Sunless Citadel and Forge of Fury are first 2, for example). However, I've got 7 players, not the recomended 4. So, I'm upping SOME of the monster #'s for the modules. I'm expecting to have about 1 less level than "expected" for a 4-member party every 2 modules. (so, instead of 4 level 5 characters after Forge of Fury, I'm going to have 7 level 4 characters) Instead of leaving them that way (more members of slightly lower levels = similar powered party) I'm going to add in extra adventures every so often. (to add unique story-lines to my campaign, AND as an excuse to use Heroes of Horror...)

Well, I plan on having the PCs find out that their enemies are starting to be ressurrected, and are gaining more power. (first one being the Druid at the end of Sunless Citadel) These NPCS will be following the PCs, dropping hints every now and then that they survived. Eventually, the PCs find out that these badguys are being resurrected by the same source, that they are far more powerful than when the PCs defeated them, and that they are uniting as a single force.

The trick is, these NPCs have been seen in the eyes of the D&D pantheon as worthy heroes. Each will have his/her own "enlightenment" thing after they are defeated by the PCs. (some after death, some from escaping death) So the Druid of Sunless Citadel has a revelation, and now wants to help the PCs. The PCs don't find out that their opponents are good until a tough spot in the campaign. I plan on the PCs having to split up to achieve different objectives (in a certain time limit). Problem is, they need the entire party to survive either one. Trick is, this is when the 7 NPCs show up, not quite as strong as the party, but strong enough to make a difference.

So, the party will split up (4-3, each taking enough NPCs along to equal 7 total). Those who don't have their own character in a single party play one of the NPCs. (so that, over 2 sessions, all 7 players get to play a different character at least once, for a change of pace)

-First off, how should I go about making the bad-guys into good-guys, so that the PCs will believe them? (I have 1 or 2 players who would go "COOL, they want to help! That's AWESOME!!" and 1 or 2 that would go "Let's just kill them again, they are obviously trying to trick us," with the others taking whichever seems most logical)

-Second, what are some of the BBEG in the modules AFTER Forge of Fury I could use as one of these 7 NPCs? (I'm going to use the Druid of SC, and probably one of the dwarves for FoF)

-Thirdly, what are some good PrC to add to these BBEGs to make them unique? The party has a Warmage/Elemental Savant (hasn't picked element yet, probably cold, then maybe fire), a Favored Soul/Stormlord, a Samurai/Kensai, a Scout/Marksmen, a Ninja/*something stealthy*, a Paladin of Freedom/"tweaked" Shadowbane Inquisitor, and a Cleric/Radiant Servant of Pelor. So I've got:

Arcane Elementalist (Cold or Fire)
Divine Electricity Caster
Two-Weapon Beatstick
Stealthy Archer
Stealthy Stealth guy of Stealth
CG Smiter of ALL Evil
Divine Healer of the Sun

What would be a good idea for upgrading the BBEGs to complement the party above? (making the Druid an Elemental Savant would be cool, but ONLY if he has a different element than the Warmage guy) I'm thinking making him a Master of Many Forms for 1 PC to use once would be cool.

Any suggestions?

(feel free to ask me any questions, as this is long and almost difinetly confusing to SOMEONE out there)
mcmurphy510
11-14-05, 12:49 AM I know that some will find this chessy. But the best BAD BAD BAD gyu turned good guy was Callisto on Xena. If you had seen it and remember her story that's a good way to bring a bad guy to good. Have the NPCs do a bunch of really terrible things to the PCs (torture them, break arms. Give them NPC that fall in love with them / really help them and have the BBEGs kill them / kidnap / or even trun them). Then when the BBEGs turn good, have them really repeant to them, tell the PCs how wrong they were and how sorry they were. have them play it out big time.

As for the PCs that say 'let's just kill 'em,' make them inact their allignment. If they are good, then killing someone who may no longer be evil is itself an evil act (if they were not sure about them being evil.) Remind them what a coup it would be for their alignment to ensure that a BBEG is now a good guy, in part because of what the PCs did. If they are neutral or evil then you will have to offer some other reason. Prehaps the NPC has some information that they need, or has to get them into a place. Just because the NPC is now good, does not mean that they are stupid either. They will still be concerned with their own life, and might withhold information until they can trust the PCs.

Another possibillity is have the BBEG lose their memeory. I have an NPC who was evil to the core and lost her memory. Now she is with the party. They are not sure if she is faking it or not. Somewhere in her memory is something that the PCs need, so they are encouraging her / helping her to get her memories back. As she does she becomes more remorseful of what she had done to them in the past. When she finally regains all her memories (and can recall what the party needs to know), she will feel so guilty that she will go insane and be of no help to them. I imagine they will try to cure her insanity. I'm not sure that if doing so will cause her to revert back to evil or not yet.

Hopefully that will be food for thought...
AlphaSquirell
11-14-05, 03:38 PM Excellent ideas! I'll try and incorperate a different idea for every other BBEG or so. (let's say the first one "Sees the light" because of their teamwork and willingness to sacrifice themselves for a friend, 2nd one doesn't remember being evil and wants to help 1st one, 3rd "sees the light" too, 4th and 5th are both divinely bound to helping the PCs, and this eventually turns them good, etc, etc, etc)

Any ideas for PrCs that would add unique characters to the party? The Samurai is going to be a Tempest and the Warmage wants to be a Green Star Adept, with a more mundane material (like cold iron, I think is what he wants)

So I've got:
Two-Weapon Melee
Sneaky Ranged Combat
Arcane Construct/Caster
Divine Electric Caster
Stealthy Stealth Mc Stealthson
Paladin of "DIE EVIL DIE" (Divine beatstick, pure and simple)
Massive Healer

I'm thinking of making the BBEGs level up using some of the following PrC:

Master of Many Forms
Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
*something from Complete Warrior that I will fill in later*
Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries
Fatespinner (or a Divine Crusader)

I'd use Belak from Sunless Citadel to get a Master of Many Forms, and either Nimira or Snurrevin from Forge of Fury. (a fighter or a wizard that I can progress into something that is different from the PCs)

What are the types of BBEG in the printed adventures following Forge of Fury? (I've got 7 players, so I'm running these adventures designed for 4 players, and adding my own twist to give them more exp to keep them up to par with the printed adventures)
AlphaSquirell
11-14-05, 06:47 PM :bump:

Can I get any insight onto BBEGs I can bring back from printed adventures? (Standing Stone and Speaker in Dreams being next 2) Like, what type of character they are, mabye race/class/cr?
mcmurphy510
11-14-05, 10:27 PM As for prestige classes, I think that depends on two things.

1. Do you use PrCs in your game more for world buliding / flavor or more for character customization? If you use them for world building, then you need to think about what types of orginizations / groups are going to be available to the PCs/NPCs. What types of prestige classes could they realistically obtain. If, on the other hand, you go the character customization route, then it's really just a matter of how much power you want the PCs to be able to obtain.

2. What world are you playing on? I play on Forgotten Realms myself, so that's really all I know (as well as the 'standard' stuff in the DMG and some of the complete books). If you are running Greyhawk or a 'standard' D&D world, then anything in the DMG or most of what is in those books ought to be fine. Other worlds (FR for example) have a certian flavor that you might want to maintain, and therefor allow / disallow certain PrCs.

I personally am very partial to Red Wizards (in 3.5 DMG) for specialist wizards. If you are not in FR you would have to justify the existance of the Red Wizard orginization, or adapt the prestige class to someother existing group. Also shadowdancer (also in 3.5 DMG I think) for sneaky rogues and Arcane Archer for ranged warriors. You could even adapt Arcane archer for non elves. Black Flame Zelot from Unapproachable East is nasty too.
AlphaSquirell
11-15-05, 07:15 AM I'm just looking for PrC that have more variety than my normal PCs. So, over the course of 2 sessions, they will each get to play a different type of character, just to add a little variety to the game. I'll have a Tempest, Green Star Adept, Storm Lord, Marksmen, Ghost-Face Killer (maybe Shadowdancer, he just wants stealth), Shadowbane Inquisitor, and Radiant Servant of Pelor.

Master of Many Forms is something that is COMPLETELY different than the group I have, so I immediately added it. I'm just looking for suggestions that would optimize the chance for variety.

We're playing what would be a "standard" D&D world, with personal DM tweaks, of course.
AlphaSquirell
11-15-05, 03:35 PM :bump:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AlphaSquirell 11-13-05, 06:40 PM	I'm working on a plot for my campaign. I'm running printed D&D modules (Sunless Citadel and Forge of Fury are first 2, for example). However, I've got 7 players, not the recomended 4. So, I'm upping SOME of the monster #'s for the modules. I'm expecting to have about 1 less level than "expected" for a 4-member party every 2 modules. (so, instead of 4 level 5 characters after Forge of Fury, I'm going to have 7 level 4 characters) Instead of leaving them that way (more members of slightly lower levels = similar powered party) I'm going to add in extra adventures every so often. (to add unique story-lines to my campaign, AND as an excuse to use Heroes of Horror...) Well, I plan on having the PCs find out that their enemies are starting to be ressurrected, and are gaining more power. (first one being the Druid at the end of Sunless Citadel) These NPCS will be following the PCs, dropping hints every now and then that they survived. Eventually, the PCs find out that these badguys are being resurrected by the same source, that they are far more powerful than when the PCs defeated them, and that they are uniting as a single force. The trick is, these NPCs have been seen in the eyes of the D&D pantheon as worthy heroes. Each will have his/her own "enlightenment" thing after they are defeated by the PCs. (some after death, some from escaping death) So the Druid of Sunless Citadel has a revelation, and now wants to help the PCs. The PCs don't find out that their opponents are good until a tough spot in the campaign. I plan on the PCs having to split up to achieve different objectives (in a certain time limit). Problem is, they need the entire party to survive either one. Trick is, this is when the 7 NPCs show up, not quite as strong as the party, but strong enough to make a difference. So, the party will split up (4-3, each taking enough NPCs along to equal 7 total). Those who don't have their own character in a single party play one of the NPCs. (so that, over 2 sessions, all 7 players get to play a different character at least once, for a change of pace) -First off, how should I go about making the bad-guys into good-guys, so that the PCs will believe them? (I have 1 or 2 players who would go "COOL, they want to help! That's AWESOME!!" and 1 or 2 that would go "Let's just kill them again, they are obviously trying to trick us," with the others taking whichever seems most logical) -Second, what are some of the BBEG in the modules AFTER Forge of Fury I could use as one of these 7 NPCs? (I'm going to use the Druid of SC, and probably one of the dwarves for FoF) -Thirdly, what are some good PrC to add to these BBEGs to make them unique? The party has a Warmage/Elemental Savant (hasn't picked element yet, probably cold, then maybe fire), a Favored Soul/Stormlord, a Samurai/Kensai, a Scout/Marksmen, a Ninja/something stealthy, a Paladin of Freedom/"tweaked" Shadowbane Inquisitor, and a Cleric/Radiant Servant of Pelor. So I've got: Arcane Elementalist (Cold or Fire) Divine Electricity Caster Two-Weapon Beatstick Stealthy Archer Stealthy Stealth guy of Stealth CG Smiter of ALL Evil Divine Healer of the Sun What would be a good idea for upgrading the BBEGs to complement the party above? (making the Druid an Elemental Savant would be cool, but ONLY if he has a different element than the Warmage guy) I'm thinking making him a Master of Many Forms for 1 PC to use once would be cool. Any suggestions? (feel free to ask me any questions, as this is long and almost difinetly confusing to SOMEONE out there)
mcmurphy510 11-14-05, 12:49 AM	I know that some will find this chessy. But the best BAD BAD BAD gyu turned good guy was Callisto on Xena. If you had seen it and remember her story that's a good way to bring a bad guy to good. Have the NPCs do a bunch of really terrible things to the PCs (torture them, break arms. Give them NPC that fall in love with them / really help them and have the BBEGs kill them / kidnap / or even trun them). Then when the BBEGs turn good, have them really repeant to them, tell the PCs how wrong they were and how sorry they were. have them play it out big time. As for the PCs that say 'let's just kill 'em,' make them inact their allignment. If they are good, then killing someone who may no longer be evil is itself an evil act (if they were not sure about them being evil.) Remind them what a coup it would be for their alignment to ensure that a BBEG is now a good guy, in part because of what the PCs did. If they are neutral or evil then you will have to offer some other reason. Prehaps the NPC has some information that they need, or has to get them into a place. Just because the NPC is now good, does not mean that they are stupid either. They will still be concerned with their own life, and might withhold information until they can trust the PCs. Another possibillity is have the BBEG lose their memeory. I have an NPC who was evil to the core and lost her memory. Now she is with the party. They are not sure if she is faking it or not. Somewhere in her memory is something that the PCs need, so they are encouraging her / helping her to get her memories back. As she does she becomes more remorseful of what she had done to them in the past. When she finally regains all her memories (and can recall what the party needs to know), she will feel so guilty that she will go insane and be of no help to them. I imagine they will try to cure her insanity. I'm not sure that if doing so will cause her to revert back to evil or not yet. Hopefully that will be food for thought...
AlphaSquirell 11-14-05, 03:38 PM	Excellent ideas! I'll try and incorperate a different idea for every other BBEG or so. (let's say the first one "Sees the light" because of their teamwork and willingness to sacrifice themselves for a friend, 2nd one doesn't remember being evil and wants to help 1st one, 3rd "sees the light" too, 4th and 5th are both divinely bound to helping the PCs, and this eventually turns them good, etc, etc, etc) Any ideas for PrCs that would add unique characters to the party? The Samurai is going to be a Tempest and the Warmage wants to be a Green Star Adept, with a more mundane material (like cold iron, I think is what he wants) So I've got: Two-Weapon Melee Sneaky Ranged Combat Arcane Construct/Caster Divine Electric Caster Stealthy Stealth Mc Stealthson Paladin of "DIE EVIL DIE" (Divine beatstick, pure and simple) Massive Healer I'm thinking of making the BBEGs level up using some of the following PrC: Master of Many Forms Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil something from Complete Warrior that I will fill in later Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries Fatespinner (or a Divine Crusader) I'd use Belak from Sunless Citadel to get a Master of Many Forms, and either Nimira or Snurrevin from Forge of Fury. (a fighter or a wizard that I can progress into something that is different from the PCs) What are the types of BBEG in the printed adventures following Forge of Fury? (I've got 7 players, so I'm running these adventures designed for 4 players, and adding my own twist to give them more exp to keep them up to par with the printed adventures)
AlphaSquirell 11-14-05, 06:47 PM	:bump: Can I get any insight onto BBEGs I can bring back from printed adventures? (Standing Stone and Speaker in Dreams being next 2) Like, what type of character they are, mabye race/class/cr?
mcmurphy510 11-14-05, 10:27 PM	As for prestige classes, I think that depends on two things. 1. Do you use PrCs in your game more for world buliding / flavor or more for character customization? If you use them for world building, then you need to think about what types of orginizations / groups are going to be available to the PCs/NPCs. What types of prestige classes could they realistically obtain. If, on the other hand, you go the character customization route, then it's really just a matter of how much power you want the PCs to be able to obtain. 2. What world are you playing on? I play on Forgotten Realms myself, so that's really all I know (as well as the 'standard' stuff in the DMG and some of the complete books). If you are running Greyhawk or a 'standard' D&D world, then anything in the DMG or most of what is in those books ought to be fine. Other worlds (FR for example) have a certian flavor that you might want to maintain, and therefor allow / disallow certain PrCs. I personally am very partial to Red Wizards (in 3.5 DMG) for specialist wizards. If you are not in FR you would have to justify the existance of the Red Wizard orginization, or adapt the prestige class to someother existing group. Also shadowdancer (also in 3.5 DMG I think) for sneaky rogues and Arcane Archer for ranged warriors. You could even adapt Arcane archer for non elves. Black Flame Zelot from Unapproachable East is nasty too.
AlphaSquirell 11-15-05, 07:15 AM	I'm just looking for PrC that have more variety than my normal PCs. So, over the course of 2 sessions, they will each get to play a different type of character, just to add a little variety to the game. I'll have a Tempest, Green Star Adept, Storm Lord, Marksmen, Ghost-Face Killer (maybe Shadowdancer, he just wants stealth), Shadowbane Inquisitor, and Radiant Servant of Pelor. Master of Many Forms is something that is COMPLETELY different than the group I have, so I immediately added it. I'm just looking for suggestions that would optimize the chance for variety. We're playing what would be a "standard" D&D world, with personal DM tweaks, of course.
AlphaSquirell 11-15-05, 03:35 PM	:bump: