Campaign concept: need some help! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Campaign concept: need some help! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Unnatural clone
03-19-06, 03:43 PM (Well, before we begin, I have to apologise for all my faults and misunderstanding that will come. In fact, I'm from Belgium, so I don't really speak english very well, but those boards are the best place for my requests! :D )

I've got a concept for my new campaign, but it seems to be very hard to handle.

My idea came when I watch some Final Fantasy cut-scenes, where we can see heroes act like heroes. And the evidence hit me: there the ONLY heroes in the entire world. No one can save the day like they do. There the World's heroes.

... So, why can't I use this for D&D? :P

In fact, it change lots of things. Imagine a universe where Gods decided to play more easily with their "chess pieces" (have you ever read Terry Pratchett? Gods are playing a great game of chess and poker, where the heroes are the pieces and the souls are the prizes). So, they create a entire new plan, and teleport all "heroes" (level 6 or more) there to play.

In fact, in the "old material plan", no one is naw higher than level 5. Monsters rules, archmages doesn't exist anymore, no one can do better than a single fireball or use rage more than twice a day. And no one can ever become better: the new rule is that you can't be better than level 5 (you can earn XP, but you can't have new powers). The biggest monsters have disappear with the heroes, but there are some old dragons and some demons that just don't care (a dragon don't stop to become older!).

Sure, the PC's can become level 6. But there's only thirty, maybe forty people that can do that. One by basic class, some prestige classes. There a new heroes, left by the gods in the new world to protect (or dominate) it. And my PC's are those heroes. :D

But it means also big changes in the rules. Some things about that:

* except monsters, most of the humanoids can't hurt the PC's after a time. They become like NPC's who can't even imagine the power of the heroes. Exception: the other heroes can. And Dark Knights certainly will...
* magic items become rare. You can find a lot, but you can't buy them, because no one can make them! For potions and lesser-levels powers, you can easily find them. And the ancient heroes left some in their travel for he new world.
* role of the PCs are huge: a single act can have great repercussions, because only a few can stop them. Butterfly theory, you see?
* prestige classes become really prestigious, because
* they have to understand why there are the Only Ones!
* dragons became the most powerful mortals.
* undeads, especially vampires, are dangerous, because clerics are weaker.
* and so on...

The problem is: it changes so much the game, sop I'm wondering if it doesn't become unbalanced?

What do you think about it? Can I do something like that without change too much from the Core rules (including psionics)? Is there some changes that I didn't expected?

Thank you for your help.
See ya! :cool:
Morka
03-20-06, 11:01 AM Heh, salut!

If I understand you well, there is nothing in the material plane that is higher than ECL 5, neither heroes or magical monsters. So don't worry about vampires... yet. Dragons could continue to age, but on another plane.
Human villages should be fighting against goblins raiders, and the only difference between a victory or defeat would be the number of soldiers and militians, since no one would be higher than level 5. Until the Dark Gods make their first move: a goblin rogue/assassin/shadow dancer introduce a human city and kill many people, before escaping, wounded. A human priest has a vision that the gods began some game, and the human heroes will be known at their time. For now, humans just need to catch this assassin: if he can bleed, he can be killed. So, the PCs (and 10 other volunteers) are hired to track the goblin down. But here's the catch: while the 10 volunteers are killed in 3-4 encounters, the PCs become more powerful...

If you want to keep the Chess game analogy, every 5th level goblin raider or human warrior is a peon. The goblin assassin I suggested you is a Jester. You could have a goblin worg rider as a Knight, and some bugbear warrior as the Towers. The PCs will also be Jesters, Knights and Towers. The Queen will be respectively a Red and Gold Dragon, but while the Red one will be wreaking havoc, the Gold one will be kept prisonner somewhere. About the Kings, I have no clue for now, perhaps an old goblin shaman, and a Noble NPC?

About magic items: no one have ever heard of it. There are some Legendary Weapons kept in some Castle Basement, but it's only a +2 equivalent weapon.
Radijs
03-20-06, 11:19 AM Klinkt als een heel leuk concept Unnatural Clone. Wat wel een probleem kan worden (en wat ik ook vaak zie gebeuren) is dat wanneer de spelers zo krachtig worden dat geen enkele NPC ze nog wat kan doen is dat ze te zelfverzekerd worden en zich af gaan vragen: "Waarom moet ik nog voor die koning werken? Ik hak zn kop dr af en dan heb ik een mooie troon dr bij."

Sounds like a very good concept Unnatural clone. Something that could become a problem (and that something I've noticed often) is that when the players become so powerful no NPC can touch them anymore is that they will become overconfident and start to wonder: "Why am I working for this king? I'll just lob his head of and add this throne to my collection."
Unnatural clone
03-22-06, 08:48 AM Thank you for your answers! ;)

So, I thought a little more about the concept. I imagine that the "kidnapping" of heroes have just happened a month ago. It is simpler to make level-1 adventures with this (loooooooooot !!). And my idea was that the "chessgame" continue in the other plane, left the non-heroes alone. So, you can't contact gods with pray because they don't care (but clerics can have their spells, like it is said in Deities and demi-gods, giving spells is a unconscient action). Anyone remember the old situation, but no one can explain it. There is some loot left by the elders, but magic items became rare, no one can build them anymore.
... Hey, it can make the Soulknife powerful! I have to think about that...
Of course, more of the monsters have disappeared. But even if you can teleport monsters, you can't take all monter's eggs! It can make scenariis like "The reborn of Aboleth"...
And I'm sure that I can find an explanation to use more powerful monsters (treachery?).

Heh, salut!

If I understand you well, there is nothing in the material plane that is higher than ECL 5, neither heroes or magical monsters. So don't worry about vampires... yet. Dragons could continue to age, but on another plane.
Human villages should be fighting against goblins raiders, and the only difference between a victory or defeat would be the number of soldiers and militians, since no one would be higher than level 5. Until the Dark Gods make their first move: a goblin rogue/assassin/shadow dancer introduce a human city and kill many people, before escaping, wounded. A human priest has a vision that the gods began some game, and the human heroes will be known at their time. For now, humans just need to catch this assassin: if he can bleed, he can be killed. So, the PCs (and 10 other volunteers) are hired to track the goblin down. But here's the catch: while the 10 volunteers are killed in 3-4 encounters, the PCs become more powerful...

If you want to keep the Chess game analogy, every 5th level goblin raider or human warrior is a peon. The goblin assassin I suggested you is a Jester. You could have a goblin worg rider as a Knight, and some bugbear warrior as the Towers. The PCs will also be Jesters, Knights and Towers. The Queen will be respectively a Red and Gold Dragon, but while the Red one will be wreaking havoc, the Gold one will be kept prisonner somewhere. About the Kings, I have no clue for now, perhaps an old goblin shaman, and a Noble NPC?

About magic items: no one have ever heard of it. There are some Legendary Weapons kept in some Castle Basement, but it's only a +2 equivalent weapon.

Wow, that is a GREAT idea! :eek:
It just make me sad, because the chessgame is naw with the great heroes...
... except if two gods, one good and one evil, start a new game. That's great. :D Maybe I can add a neutral god to be the judge.

Klinkt als een heel leuk concept Unnatural Clone. Wat wel een probleem kan worden (en wat ik ook vaak zie gebeuren) is dat wanneer de spelers zo krachtig worden dat geen enkele NPC ze nog wat kan doen is dat ze te zelfverzekerd worden en zich af gaan vragen: "Waarom moet ik nog voor die koning werken? Ik hak zn kop dr af en dan heb ik een mooie troon dr bij."

Sounds like a very good concept Unnatural clone. Something that could become a problem (and that something I've noticed often) is that when the players become so powerful no NPC can touch them anymore is that they will become overconfident and start to wonder: "Why am I working for this king? I'll just lob his head of and add this throne to my collection."

Wow, flemish! I can't even imagine to find that here! But unfortunately, I'm one of those are speaking french... (Don't worry, I've understand! ;) )
Well, that's the point. If players are a little evil, it can make a big problem. Fortunately, my players are good, they don't even min-max their PC's. And I have also a bad idea about policy, so I can disgust them to play the kings! :devil:

Well, I continue to explore the idea. You're very helpful, thank you! :)
See ya! :cool:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Unnatural clone 03-19-06, 03:43 PM	(Well, before we begin, I have to apologise for all my faults and misunderstanding that will come. In fact, I'm from Belgium, so I don't really speak english very well, but those boards are the best place for my requests! :D ) I've got a concept for my new campaign, but it seems to be very hard to handle. My idea came when I watch some Final Fantasy cut-scenes, where we can see heroes act like heroes. And the evidence hit me: there the ONLY heroes in the entire world. No one can save the day like they do. There the World's heroes. ... So, why can't I use this for D&D? :P In fact, it change lots of things. Imagine a universe where Gods decided to play more easily with their "chess pieces" (have you ever read Terry Pratchett? Gods are playing a great game of chess and poker, where the heroes are the pieces and the souls are the prizes). So, they create a entire new plan, and teleport all "heroes" (level 6 or more) there to play. In fact, in the "old material plan", no one is naw higher than level 5. Monsters rules, archmages doesn't exist anymore, no one can do better than a single fireball or use rage more than twice a day. And no one can ever become better: the new rule is that you can't be better than level 5 (you can earn XP, but you can't have new powers). The biggest monsters have disappear with the heroes, but there are some old dragons and some demons that just don't care (a dragon don't stop to become older!). Sure, the PC's can become level 6. But there's only thirty, maybe forty people that can do that. One by basic class, some prestige classes. There a new heroes, left by the gods in the new world to protect (or dominate) it. And my PC's are those heroes. :D But it means also big changes in the rules. Some things about that: * except monsters, most of the humanoids can't hurt the PC's after a time. They become like NPC's who can't even imagine the power of the heroes. Exception: the other heroes can. And Dark Knights certainly will... * magic items become rare. You can find a lot, but you can't buy them, because no one can make them! For potions and lesser-levels powers, you can easily find them. And the ancient heroes left some in their travel for he new world. * role of the PCs are huge: a single act can have great repercussions, because only a few can stop them. Butterfly theory, you see? * prestige classes become really prestigious, because * they have to understand why there are the Only Ones! * dragons became the most powerful mortals. * undeads, especially vampires, are dangerous, because clerics are weaker. * and so on... The problem is: it changes so much the game, sop I'm wondering if it doesn't become unbalanced? What do you think about it? Can I do something like that without change too much from the Core rules (including psionics)? Is there some changes that I didn't expected? Thank you for your help. See ya! :cool:
Morka 03-20-06, 11:01 AM	Heh, salut! If I understand you well, there is nothing in the material plane that is higher than ECL 5, neither heroes or magical monsters. So don't worry about vampires... yet. Dragons could continue to age, but on another plane. Human villages should be fighting against goblins raiders, and the only difference between a victory or defeat would be the number of soldiers and militians, since no one would be higher than level 5. Until the Dark Gods make their first move: a goblin rogue/assassin/shadow dancer introduce a human city and kill many people, before escaping, wounded. A human priest has a vision that the gods began some game, and the human heroes will be known at their time. For now, humans just need to catch this assassin: if he can bleed, he can be killed. So, the PCs (and 10 other volunteers) are hired to track the goblin down. But here's the catch: while the 10 volunteers are killed in 3-4 encounters, the PCs become more powerful... If you want to keep the Chess game analogy, every 5th level goblin raider or human warrior is a peon. The goblin assassin I suggested you is a Jester. You could have a goblin worg rider as a Knight, and some bugbear warrior as the Towers. The PCs will also be Jesters, Knights and Towers. The Queen will be respectively a Red and Gold Dragon, but while the Red one will be wreaking havoc, the Gold one will be kept prisonner somewhere. About the Kings, I have no clue for now, perhaps an old goblin shaman, and a Noble NPC? About magic items: no one have ever heard of it. There are some Legendary Weapons kept in some Castle Basement, but it's only a +2 equivalent weapon.
Radijs 03-20-06, 11:19 AM	Klinkt als een heel leuk concept Unnatural Clone. Wat wel een probleem kan worden (en wat ik ook vaak zie gebeuren) is dat wanneer de spelers zo krachtig worden dat geen enkele NPC ze nog wat kan doen is dat ze te zelfverzekerd worden en zich af gaan vragen: "Waarom moet ik nog voor die koning werken? Ik hak zn kop dr af en dan heb ik een mooie troon dr bij." Sounds like a very good concept Unnatural clone. Something that could become a problem (and that something I've noticed often) is that when the players become so powerful no NPC can touch them anymore is that they will become overconfident and start to wonder: "Why am I working for this king? I'll just lob his head of and add this throne to my collection."
Unnatural clone 03-22-06, 08:48 AM	Thank you for your answers! ;) So, I thought a little more about the concept. I imagine that the "kidnapping" of heroes have just happened a month ago. It is simpler to make level-1 adventures with this (loooooooooot !!). And my idea was that the "chessgame" continue in the other plane, left the non-heroes alone. So, you can't contact gods with pray because they don't care (but clerics can have their spells, like it is said in Deities and demi-gods, giving spells is a unconscient action). Anyone remember the old situation, but no one can explain it. There is some loot left by the elders, but magic items became rare, no one can build them anymore. ... Hey, it can make the Soulknife powerful! I have to think about that... Of course, more of the monsters have disappeared. But even if you can teleport monsters, you can't take all monter's eggs! It can make scenariis like "The reborn of Aboleth"... And I'm sure that I can find an explanation to use more powerful monsters (treachery?). Heh, salut! If I understand you well, there is nothing in the material plane that is higher than ECL 5, neither heroes or magical monsters. So don't worry about vampires... yet. Dragons could continue to age, but on another plane. Human villages should be fighting against goblins raiders, and the only difference between a victory or defeat would be the number of soldiers and militians, since no one would be higher than level 5. Until the Dark Gods make their first move: a goblin rogue/assassin/shadow dancer introduce a human city and kill many people, before escaping, wounded. A human priest has a vision that the gods began some game, and the human heroes will be known at their time. For now, humans just need to catch this assassin: if he can bleed, he can be killed. So, the PCs (and 10 other volunteers) are hired to track the goblin down. But here's the catch: while the 10 volunteers are killed in 3-4 encounters, the PCs become more powerful... If you want to keep the Chess game analogy, every 5th level goblin raider or human warrior is a peon. The goblin assassin I suggested you is a Jester. You could have a goblin worg rider as a Knight, and some bugbear warrior as the Towers. The PCs will also be Jesters, Knights and Towers. The Queen will be respectively a Red and Gold Dragon, but while the Red one will be wreaking havoc, the Gold one will be kept prisonner somewhere. About the Kings, I have no clue for now, perhaps an old goblin shaman, and a Noble NPC? About magic items: no one have ever heard of it. There are some Legendary Weapons kept in some Castle Basement, but it's only a +2 equivalent weapon. Wow, that is a GREAT idea! :eek: It just make me sad, because the chessgame is naw with the great heroes... ... except if two gods, one good and one evil, start a new game. That's great. :D Maybe I can add a neutral god to be the judge. Klinkt als een heel leuk concept Unnatural Clone. Wat wel een probleem kan worden (en wat ik ook vaak zie gebeuren) is dat wanneer de spelers zo krachtig worden dat geen enkele NPC ze nog wat kan doen is dat ze te zelfverzekerd worden en zich af gaan vragen: "Waarom moet ik nog voor die koning werken? Ik hak zn kop dr af en dan heb ik een mooie troon dr bij." Sounds like a very good concept Unnatural clone. Something that could become a problem (and that something I've noticed often) is that when the players become so powerful no NPC can touch them anymore is that they will become overconfident and start to wonder: "Why am I working for this king? I'll just lob his head of and add this throne to my collection." Wow, flemish! I can't even imagine to find that here! But unfortunately, I'm one of those are speaking french... (Don't worry, I've understand! ;) ) Well, that's the point. If players are a little evil, it can make a big problem. Fortunately, my players are good, they don't even min-max their PC's. And I have also a bad idea about policy, so I can disgust them to play the kings! :devil: Well, I continue to explore the idea. You're very helpful, thank you! :) See ya! :cool: