Campaign Idea...please critique [Archive] - Wizards Community

Campaign Idea...please critique [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
A Balor You Said?
07-19-05, 12:49 PM I like to give my PCs hidden little abilities, things that I usually don't even tell them about. Adds to their mystique in my opinion (they are PCs, afterall). With that in mind, here's something I've been tossing around:

Some elven power (possibly the "primary" elven nation, but probably a satellite bit to some higher nation or league of nations) has been overrun by a neighboring human nation. Reason undetermined at this point (not sure how I'll work it in).

First encounter: The PCs, helpful chaps that they are (I shamelessly enforce alignment restrictions and, to a lesser extent, racial restrictions), come to the aid of an elven woman and her entourage who are being beset by either humans or human highed goblinoids. They save the day, hopefully, as PCs so often do. The woman is pregnant and is travelling to a place where, "Gods willing I shall have my child in peace!" They're running for their lives, but not blindly.

They're destination is an ancient ruin (elven, of course), type that's only mentioned in books about other books, that sort of thing. Her entourage is all dead/close to dead (they weren't a very lively bunch, see below) and so she requests the PCs assistance, offers promises of reward, gratitude, etc. The PCs accept, if they're smart, and go along with it.

Several months and a few random (and possibly not so random, havent' decided yet) encounters later, the PCs and their lady make it to the ruins. Here the plot begins to thicken. The walls are covered with writing, think egyptian tombs. The elf lady is upset that she can't understand it, cries profusely and goes on about "prophecies" and "It was supposed to tell me!" that sort of thing. One of the PCs (enter aforementioned quirk) understands the writing without effort (it's in archaic elvish).

In prophetic tones, the walls speak of "the one with half a soul" and "he whose mother was barren" (yeah, I know that last bit hits on some biblical stories, but I think God's above suing me for copyright violations). At this the elven lady perks up, gets gleeful, asks him for more...goes into labor. Her child is born, with help from party cleric and any survivalist that might be around. Story unfolds.

The lady is the queen of the elven nation accosted earlier (maybe a princess, haven't decided) who was, somewhat famously, unable to have children. War = war crimes, she was raped. And, to everyone's amazement, became pregnant. Her child, a half-elf (half-elf = half-souled), is someone who is foretold. The plot unfurls from there.

My questions: Any suggestions, ideas to make it better, criticism, loud jeers from the back? Just let me know what ya think and how I can make it better.

Thanks so much, and far in advance.
Bruunwald
07-19-05, 01:09 PM I'm all for giving the PCs little quirks that make them special. Hidden powers, that sort of thing. It can be hard to deal with when you have conventional players on board (read: rules lawyers), so make sure you know your group before doing that. You don't want a fight on your hands over balance issues, and you don't want anybody resenting you for favoring one person over the others, either.

That said, three things come to mind here. One is that this is an awful lot of trouble to go through just to show that one of the PCs can read an archaic form of Elvish. I'm sure it will lead to his being someone special, but that's a minor plot point that can be dealt with in the first session or two. Stretching it out so that the plot serves the notion can seem gimmicky and contrived.

That brings me to the other point, which is that you're banking a lot on the notion that the party will stick with the pregnant lady for "several months." If you play that out in real time, the players will likely feel the plot is too linear and get bored after a couple of sessions. If you just fast-forward, you're bound to have someone shout out, "Months later? Who said we wanted to stick with her for months?!"

Which brings me to the third point. Which is, while I, too, love to plan gigantic plot points months, even years in advance, I find it's best to realize that the players are going to do things that either put them off, or avoid them completely, or change those plans utterly. You're better off hitching longterm plans to forces you can control (such as NPCs, weather patterns, entire nations at war, etc.), than to those you can't (the players).

As for the plot itself, I like intrigue. You have the potential for assassins, bounty hunters, that sort of thing here. Guys who not only provide fodder for battle, but for more and more plot. And a pregnant lady is definitely someone who needs defending, so that's a good point, too. One thing you might consider, is to actually allow several session for the trip out there, each one involving a stop at a new village on the way, where side quests are available. Sort of like when you have a show, say The X-Files, where they have a long, convoluted and involved plot, but they also do a random non-relevant X-File every other show to keep variety in it.
Gutcheck Hammerfall
07-19-05, 01:43 PM I agree with Bruunwald, and I want to second what I feel is the biggest critique against your idea.

The idea is great.

The problem is your timing scheme and underestimating what your players may want to do versus what you want them to do. This is a problem all DM's must work with.

SOLUTION!

If they abandon the pregnant queen, she writes it in her diary. She dies at childbirth (having found another traveler or not - perhaps divine intervention saves the child) and the child lives. She makes sure he has the diary in his blanket or gives it to his caretaker. The new prince swears vengeance on those who abandoned his mother in time of need.

Great for reoccuring NPC's and side quests.

Let the players do what they want, but don't just drop a story element. Plot weaving is a good skill to practice!
Morka
07-19-05, 01:45 PM What class would your elven queen/princess be, and what level? A low-level wouldn't be good for a queen, but perhaps for a young princess. While a too high level NPC (or DMPC) would make the players wonder why she needs them to protect her.
Gutcheck Hammerfall
07-19-05, 02:03 PM What class would your elven queen/princess be, and what level? A low-level wouldn't be good for a queen, but perhaps for a young princess. While a too high level NPC (or DMPC) would make the players wonder why she needs them to protect her.

One word - pregnant.

Any pregnant woman (especially one who may be pregnant with a divine child) does not want to risk losing her child.

Make her whatever level.
olshanski_home
07-19-05, 02:31 PM Amtrack

You are counting too much on the PCs following your pre-planned set of actions.
You have carefully weighed the odds in your favor by imposing alignment and race restrictions during character creation... but really, this sounds like you are interested in telling your own story and not letting the PCs determine thier own fate.

I like playing heroic characters, but I also like playing characters that have a choice in thier destiny. If my only adventure hook is "follow the pregnant lady for the next few months" I'd be looking for a new DM.

PCS: "Hey lady, if you are pregnant, shouldn't you stay at home till you have the kid?"
Lady: "I have been told of a prophecy, I must go to the pyramid of confusion... please come with me and I'll reward you with treasure, fame, etcetera"
PCS: "We'll be glad to take you after your kid is born, but in the meantime, we'd rather look for pillaging hobgoblins"
Lady: "I must go to the pyramid"
PCS: "Suit yourself... but don't say we didn't warn ya".
DM: "No, your characters are heroic, they wouldn't let the woman wander off alone without an escort".
Player: "Hey, the lady is being retarded, we might be Lawful Good, but we are under no obligation to prevent Darwin from weeding out the stupid".

Perhaps if the PCs came across the lady just a few days from her destination it would not be as great an imposition.

I can also assume from your post that you do not have children. During the last 4 weeks of pregnancy travel is nearly impossible... and during the first 2 months after childbirth most people will want to stay put. Women get a strong "nesting" instinct during the last trimester of pregnancy that makes them want to fix up things around the house and make the house comfortable. Something like 50% of women spend the 24 hours before childbirth doing something like cleaning the bathroom, mopping the floors, or things like that. Other than war or famine, I cannot think of any reason someone would willingly travel during the third trimester.
chrisnd
07-19-05, 02:40 PM Really fun idea. Sounds like you have a lot planned. Be careful - you will soon realize (if you don't railroad) that you best laid plans of a DM often go awry. Make sure you have enough room in your campaign plot to work with the decisions the group makes.

I will give you an example. After our first session, the group did certain things. I expected them to head south, since the village leader asked them to investigate a caravan gone missing that was last seen heading south. One of the players could not make the next session. Instead of nixing the entire session, I decided that that one PC actually woke up early from a strange dream, left town, and headed south a few hours before the party. The party would soon find out that their missing companion had been captured, and needed rescuing. That particular side quest would have never occured had the player not skipped out on a session.

In another example, the group went to meet an NPC to learn the whereabouts of that caravan. They didn't actually ask if the person they met with was actually the one they were supposed to meet. Essentially, they didn't ask the right questions. I had no intention of actually introducing one of the main villains as early as I did in the campaign, but I decided to "punish" the group for blindly trusting an NPC they didn't know. Essentially, I decided that the NPC they blindly trusted was actually one of the main villains in disguise. Little did they realize that their own stupidity and blind trust led them into a near-TPK situation (don't worry, no TPK, they were saved at the last moment). The plot still continues forward, but things that they have already done have shaped what is to come.

One last tidbit, and this was also a spur of the moment thing I planned based on how the players were behaving. If you want to give PC's latent talents that begin to take effect over time (like the ability to read odd languages at unexpected times), try tattoos. Seriously. One of the players wanted a half-celestial template added to his character. Instead of giving it to him at birth (i.e. character creation), I had him wait for it. Finally, when the group became privy to the major plotline, the gods bestoyed a gift upon hte group - tattoos. These tattoos contained latent powers that bestoy various benefits (and detriments, of course) as the PC's continue to level. In such a way, I determined that the 1/2 Celestial template would become evident over time as these latent talents and abilities became known as the PC leveled. Everyone got a tattoo, and now everyone is enjoying some sort of benefit appropriate to their class and level. That might be a nice game related way of introducing various hidden talents and skills.

You will soon come to realized that a campaign is an evolving storyline that is being written by the PLAYERS, not by you, the DM. You are there to guide them, but they are there to live the story. Yours is the plot, but they are the storytellers. Keep that in mind - if you are flexible and able to work with the actions that the PC's take, then it will be less railroading and more playing. Your players, I think, will appreciate that much more.

I am also kind of lucky in that the two party leaders (out of 5 players) are very good metagamers - what I mean, is that they understand that certain amounts of "railroading" is required on my part to keep the story going. They realize that I put a lot of time into planning certain things, and they realize that if they stray from the main plotline too much, then nothing will get accomplished and the session will be boring and uneventful. They also know how to read clues that I drop when NPC's speak. They realized that if they did not follow the caravan south to determine what happened, that there would have otherwise been no adventure that evening. Have discussions with the one player that seems to assume the leadership role at the gaming table - if they understand that you are at a minimum trying to move a plot along, I think that they will be more open to a little touch of railroading on a rare but occasional basis. Just make sure that these things are discussed before hand.

But most importantly, make sure your plot is flexible in such a way as to be reactive to the players actions. Work with what they provide you - yours is the plot, but theirs is the story.
A Balor You Said?
07-19-05, 03:09 PM I think that I will shorten the time limit. Makes the urgency much more apparent, so I like the idea anyway...maybe a new fight everyday as the powers that be try to accost the unborn child. Makes an even better plotline, actually...how did the powers that be know where to find her and how did they know that their last team had failed. Most especially, why are they so intent on making the child dead (or maybe taking him).

The point isn't to prove that the player can read an obscure language. The character can read an obscure language so that I can get the point across while involving my players in a more substantial way. Also gives the team something to wonder about (So why could you read that?). The character, and the player, are really no more important than any of the others, one of the major threads within the campaign, at least in the earlier levels will be based around this war, the elven retort, etc. The characters will all play a part, that particular character, plays that part.

The idea always was about the recurring NPC, maybe some of the villains, maybe some townspeople, the princess and her child The plot isn't set in stone...this is how I envision it. I design a world, I design events and my players react to them. I had plans, similar to those posted, about what to do if my players went off on a tangent, left the lady at the first available town and chased goblins or what-have-you. And I could lay out every idea I have, for every possible change of plans. What happens if they turn her in for the bounty? But laying it out in such specific detail as that would take would be tedious, for all involved, I think. What I had up was my idea, this is what I'm bringing to the table for my players, and they can act on it or not, they can tear it apart limb from limb, or they could play right into its hands, They'll have an idea which way I want them to go, but I never force my players to go a direction they don't want. If they don't play the story as written, s'all good. They just go somewhere else and do something else.

And incidently, even if my character were planning on staying with her, I'd stop in a town and hang about, does make more sense than just force-marching straight through. In all honesty, the group will stop in a town.

And yeah, I realize that my first post looked a bit railroady, sorry for that, the idea isn't really put together that way. Just didn't feel like going too terribly in depth.

Thanks a ton for all of your advice, among other things taking my assumption of my players metagaming. But thanks so much and keep the ideas coming.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
A Balor You Said? 07-19-05, 12:49 PM	I like to give my PCs hidden little abilities, things that I usually don't even tell them about. Adds to their mystique in my opinion (they are PCs, afterall). With that in mind, here's something I've been tossing around: Some elven power (possibly the "primary" elven nation, but probably a satellite bit to some higher nation or league of nations) has been overrun by a neighboring human nation. Reason undetermined at this point (not sure how I'll work it in). First encounter: The PCs, helpful chaps that they are (I shamelessly enforce alignment restrictions and, to a lesser extent, racial restrictions), come to the aid of an elven woman and her entourage who are being beset by either humans or human highed goblinoids. They save the day, hopefully, as PCs so often do. The woman is pregnant and is travelling to a place where, "Gods willing I shall have my child in peace!" They're running for their lives, but not blindly. They're destination is an ancient ruin (elven, of course), type that's only mentioned in books about other books, that sort of thing. Her entourage is all dead/close to dead (they weren't a very lively bunch, see below) and so she requests the PCs assistance, offers promises of reward, gratitude, etc. The PCs accept, if they're smart, and go along with it. Several months and a few random (and possibly not so random, havent' decided yet) encounters later, the PCs and their lady make it to the ruins. Here the plot begins to thicken. The walls are covered with writing, think egyptian tombs. The elf lady is upset that she can't understand it, cries profusely and goes on about "prophecies" and "It was supposed to tell me!" that sort of thing. One of the PCs (enter aforementioned quirk) understands the writing without effort (it's in archaic elvish). In prophetic tones, the walls speak of "the one with half a soul" and "he whose mother was barren" (yeah, I know that last bit hits on some biblical stories, but I think God's above suing me for copyright violations). At this the elven lady perks up, gets gleeful, asks him for more...goes into labor. Her child is born, with help from party cleric and any survivalist that might be around. Story unfolds. The lady is the queen of the elven nation accosted earlier (maybe a princess, haven't decided) who was, somewhat famously, unable to have children. War = war crimes, she was raped. And, to everyone's amazement, became pregnant. Her child, a half-elf (half-elf = half-souled), is someone who is foretold. The plot unfurls from there. My questions: Any suggestions, ideas to make it better, criticism, loud jeers from the back? Just let me know what ya think and how I can make it better. Thanks so much, and far in advance.
Bruunwald 07-19-05, 01:09 PM	I'm all for giving the PCs little quirks that make them special. Hidden powers, that sort of thing. It can be hard to deal with when you have conventional players on board (read: rules lawyers), so make sure you know your group before doing that. You don't want a fight on your hands over balance issues, and you don't want anybody resenting you for favoring one person over the others, either. That said, three things come to mind here. One is that this is an awful lot of trouble to go through just to show that one of the PCs can read an archaic form of Elvish. I'm sure it will lead to his being someone special, but that's a minor plot point that can be dealt with in the first session or two. Stretching it out so that the plot serves the notion can seem gimmicky and contrived. That brings me to the other point, which is that you're banking a lot on the notion that the party will stick with the pregnant lady for "several months." If you play that out in real time, the players will likely feel the plot is too linear and get bored after a couple of sessions. If you just fast-forward, you're bound to have someone shout out, "Months later? Who said we wanted to stick with her for months?!" Which brings me to the third point. Which is, while I, too, love to plan gigantic plot points months, even years in advance, I find it's best to realize that the players are going to do things that either put them off, or avoid them completely, or change those plans utterly. You're better off hitching longterm plans to forces you can control (such as NPCs, weather patterns, entire nations at war, etc.), than to those you can't (the players). As for the plot itself, I like intrigue. You have the potential for assassins, bounty hunters, that sort of thing here. Guys who not only provide fodder for battle, but for more and more plot. And a pregnant lady is definitely someone who needs defending, so that's a good point, too. One thing you might consider, is to actually allow several session for the trip out there, each one involving a stop at a new village on the way, where side quests are available. Sort of like when you have a show, say The X-Files, where they have a long, convoluted and involved plot, but they also do a random non-relevant X-File every other show to keep variety in it.
Gutcheck Hammerfall 07-19-05, 01:43 PM	I agree with Bruunwald, and I want to second what I feel is the biggest critique against your idea. The idea is great. The problem is your timing scheme and underestimating what your players may want to do versus what you want them to do. This is a problem all DM's must work with. SOLUTION! If they abandon the pregnant queen, she writes it in her diary. She dies at childbirth (having found another traveler or not - perhaps divine intervention saves the child) and the child lives. She makes sure he has the diary in his blanket or gives it to his caretaker. The new prince swears vengeance on those who abandoned his mother in time of need. Great for reoccuring NPC's and side quests. Let the players do what they want, but don't just drop a story element. Plot weaving is a good skill to practice!
Morka 07-19-05, 01:45 PM	What class would your elven queen/princess be, and what level? A low-level wouldn't be good for a queen, but perhaps for a young princess. While a too high level NPC (or DMPC) would make the players wonder why she needs them to protect her.
Gutcheck Hammerfall 07-19-05, 02:03 PM	What class would your elven queen/princess be, and what level? A low-level wouldn't be good for a queen, but perhaps for a young princess. While a too high level NPC (or DMPC) would make the players wonder why she needs them to protect her. One word - pregnant. Any pregnant woman (especially one who may be pregnant with a divine child) does not want to risk losing her child. Make her whatever level.
olshanski_home 07-19-05, 02:31 PM	Amtrack You are counting too much on the PCs following your pre-planned set of actions. You have carefully weighed the odds in your favor by imposing alignment and race restrictions during character creation... but really, this sounds like you are interested in telling your own story and not letting the PCs determine thier own fate. I like playing heroic characters, but I also like playing characters that have a choice in thier destiny. If my only adventure hook is "follow the pregnant lady for the next few months" I'd be looking for a new DM. PCS: "Hey lady, if you are pregnant, shouldn't you stay at home till you have the kid?" Lady: "I have been told of a prophecy, I must go to the pyramid of confusion... please come with me and I'll reward you with treasure, fame, etcetera" PCS: "We'll be glad to take you after your kid is born, but in the meantime, we'd rather look for pillaging hobgoblins" Lady: "I must go to the pyramid" PCS: "Suit yourself... but don't say we didn't warn ya". DM: "No, your characters are heroic, they wouldn't let the woman wander off alone without an escort". Player: "Hey, the lady is being retarded, we might be Lawful Good, but we are under no obligation to prevent Darwin from weeding out the stupid". Perhaps if the PCs came across the lady just a few days from her destination it would not be as great an imposition. I can also assume from your post that you do not have children. During the last 4 weeks of pregnancy travel is nearly impossible... and during the first 2 months after childbirth most people will want to stay put. Women get a strong "nesting" instinct during the last trimester of pregnancy that makes them want to fix up things around the house and make the house comfortable. Something like 50% of women spend the 24 hours before childbirth doing something like cleaning the bathroom, mopping the floors, or things like that. Other than war or famine, I cannot think of any reason someone would willingly travel during the third trimester.
chrisnd 07-19-05, 02:40 PM	Really fun idea. Sounds like you have a lot planned. Be careful - you will soon realize (if you don't railroad) that you best laid plans of a DM often go awry. Make sure you have enough room in your campaign plot to work with the decisions the group makes. I will give you an example. After our first session, the group did certain things. I expected them to head south, since the village leader asked them to investigate a caravan gone missing that was last seen heading south. One of the players could not make the next session. Instead of nixing the entire session, I decided that that one PC actually woke up early from a strange dream, left town, and headed south a few hours before the party. The party would soon find out that their missing companion had been captured, and needed rescuing. That particular side quest would have never occured had the player not skipped out on a session. In another example, the group went to meet an NPC to learn the whereabouts of that caravan. They didn't actually ask if the person they met with was actually the one they were supposed to meet. Essentially, they didn't ask the right questions. I had no intention of actually introducing one of the main villains as early as I did in the campaign, but I decided to "punish" the group for blindly trusting an NPC they didn't know. Essentially, I decided that the NPC they blindly trusted was actually one of the main villains in disguise. Little did they realize that their own stupidity and blind trust led them into a near-TPK situation (don't worry, no TPK, they were saved at the last moment). The plot still continues forward, but things that they have already done have shaped what is to come. One last tidbit, and this was also a spur of the moment thing I planned based on how the players were behaving. If you want to give PC's latent talents that begin to take effect over time (like the ability to read odd languages at unexpected times), try tattoos. Seriously. One of the players wanted a half-celestial template added to his character. Instead of giving it to him at birth (i.e. character creation), I had him wait for it. Finally, when the group became privy to the major plotline, the gods bestoyed a gift upon hte group - tattoos. These tattoos contained latent powers that bestoy various benefits (and detriments, of course) as the PC's continue to level. In such a way, I determined that the 1/2 Celestial template would become evident over time as these latent talents and abilities became known as the PC leveled. Everyone got a tattoo, and now everyone is enjoying some sort of benefit appropriate to their class and level. That might be a nice game related way of introducing various hidden talents and skills. You will soon come to realized that a campaign is an evolving storyline that is being written by the PLAYERS, not by you, the DM. You are there to guide them, but they are there to live the story. Yours is the plot, but they are the storytellers. Keep that in mind - if you are flexible and able to work with the actions that the PC's take, then it will be less railroading and more playing. Your players, I think, will appreciate that much more. I am also kind of lucky in that the two party leaders (out of 5 players) are very good metagamers - what I mean, is that they understand that certain amounts of "railroading" is required on my part to keep the story going. They realize that I put a lot of time into planning certain things, and they realize that if they stray from the main plotline too much, then nothing will get accomplished and the session will be boring and uneventful. They also know how to read clues that I drop when NPC's speak. They realized that if they did not follow the caravan south to determine what happened, that there would have otherwise been no adventure that evening. Have discussions with the one player that seems to assume the leadership role at the gaming table - if they understand that you are at a minimum trying to move a plot along, I think that they will be more open to a little touch of railroading on a rare but occasional basis. Just make sure that these things are discussed before hand. But most importantly, make sure your plot is flexible in such a way as to be reactive to the players actions. Work with what they provide you - yours is the plot, but theirs is the story.
A Balor You Said? 07-19-05, 03:09 PM	I think that I will shorten the time limit. Makes the urgency much more apparent, so I like the idea anyway...maybe a new fight everyday as the powers that be try to accost the unborn child. Makes an even better plotline, actually...how did the powers that be know where to find her and how did they know that their last team had failed. Most especially, why are they so intent on making the child dead (or maybe taking him). The point isn't to prove that the player can read an obscure language. The character can read an obscure language so that I can get the point across while involving my players in a more substantial way. Also gives the team something to wonder about (So why could you read that?). The character, and the player, are really no more important than any of the others, one of the major threads within the campaign, at least in the earlier levels will be based around this war, the elven retort, etc. The characters will all play a part, that particular character, plays that part. The idea always was about the recurring NPC, maybe some of the villains, maybe some townspeople, the princess and her child The plot isn't set in stone...this is how I envision it. I design a world, I design events and my players react to them. I had plans, similar to those posted, about what to do if my players went off on a tangent, left the lady at the first available town and chased goblins or what-have-you. And I could lay out every idea I have, for every possible change of plans. What happens if they turn her in for the bounty? But laying it out in such specific detail as that would take would be tedious, for all involved, I think. What I had up was my idea, this is what I'm bringing to the table for my players, and they can act on it or not, they can tear it apart limb from limb, or they could play right into its hands, They'll have an idea which way I want them to go, but I never force my players to go a direction they don't want. If they don't play the story as written, s'all good. They just go somewhere else and do something else. And incidently, even if my character were planning on staying with her, I'd stop in a town and hang about, does make more sense than just force-marching straight through. In all honesty, the group will stop in a town. And yeah, I realize that my first post looked a bit railroady, sorry for that, the idea isn't really put together that way. Just didn't feel like going too terribly in depth. Thanks a ton for all of your advice, among other things taking my assumption of my players metagaming. But thanks so much and keep the ideas coming.