Post/Author/DateTime	Post
invisble1 05-23-04, 03:06 PM	how would you handle the need for a cleric/healer? Im going to be starting a small campaign; and knowing my players, no one will choose to be a healer, thats just how they are -- what would you recomend.
Akutsukai 05-23-04, 03:11 PM	I'm the DM of a similar campaign right now...no one wants to be the healer.....because the healer "doesn't do anything"....:confused: To make up for this lost I let them find more potions then usual...thus decreasing the amount of other magic items...and they rest a lot more than normal :D Or you could just "give" them a NPC healer.....
Xante Flatnose 05-23-04, 03:11 PM	No need to be worry.My players are the same.Having no clerics does not make a big problem.Support them with potions.and write adventures with healing pond,altars.
invisble1 05-23-04, 03:15 PM	Excellent; good to know that I'm not the only one in this boat. Personally, i Love to play the cleric/healer. Its such a great class, provided its played right.
Xante Flatnose 05-23-04, 03:18 PM	Originally posted by invisble1 Excellent; good to know that I'm not the only one in this boat. Well met invisble1 :D
Morka 05-23-04, 03:25 PM	I approve the suggestion for the NPC healer. But instead of giving them a LG cleric who will do all they want and die for them, you should build a few evil clerics who have their own goals. For example, if you are running a campaign against an orc tribe, the PCs could easily find an orc cleric of Ilneval who just had his tribe absorbed by the crazy shaman of Baghtru. Or the PCs could be hired by a priest of Bane (or Hextor) in order to punish some barbarians.
mekillot 05-23-04, 03:27 PM	I ran a campaign where the party had no healers. I gave them one item to help- an amulet that cast maxed cure light once per day but they were third level before they got that. I also changed the rest rule- for every night of complete rest they got their level + con bonus in hit points back. That way they weren't waiting around for weeks to heal before going out. I did not give them a whole bunch of potions. I figured if there were 5 players and noone chose to play a cleric that was their problem. They made up for not having a cleric with other abilities like stealth, LOTS of hit points, and role-play. One side-effect of no healers in the party: even the most bloodthirsty of the group became cautious about picking fights. For a bunch of warrior-types they sure found a whole lot of alternatives to bashing their way through an adventure! Oh, and don't forget: bards, rangers and paladins above 4th can cast cure light which means they can use wands of cure light. Throw them a wand. Until they can use it make em sweat a while. If you make sure they know they can't just pop down to the local Am/PM and pick up another they will be VERY cautious on the charges expended.
SweetMeats 05-23-04, 03:36 PM	None of the players in my current game have taken cleric. We did have a Mystic (from the DLCS) for time till that player had to pull out due to time and college restraints though. Its generally not because "they don't do anything" but I think, and I could be wrong here, that its because they either end up as heal monkeys or want to be warrior clerics rather than healers.
invisble1 05-23-04, 03:42 PM	Originally posted by SweetMeats be warrior clerics rather than healers. yeah but if your good, you can pull this off.
ck2001wendt 05-23-04, 03:46 PM	The only core character class you CAN'T live without is Rogue for the Trapfinding. Simple work around: Is there a Rogue in the party with Use Magic Device? Have him buy some Wands of Cure Light and make sure his UMD mod is +14, and he automatically makes the check. Don't change up the treasure composition to help the characters. If they don't have a healer, they should know well enough to buy more heal potions, Restoration potions and the like. If they don't know well enough, encounters with undead will eventually make them get the picture. The party I was in last year started out with one level of Fighter, 20-24 levels of Wizard, 5 levels of Cleric, and 6 levels of Rogue between us, but it worked out okay. Just forced us to be more careful.
RobTzu 05-23-04, 10:47 PM	Change nothing. Let them figure it out. The world is as it is, don't bend to the P.C.'s. I always hated a forest that had Cr5 creatures when the P.C.'s are fifth level and nothing but bunnies when they are 1st level.
MinusInnocence 05-23-04, 10:57 PM	I agree with RobTzu. Let them get their butts handed to them a few times; eventually they will get tired of being savagely beaten, and either change their tactics (unlikely - your average group of adventurers is as dogged and belligerent a circle of friends as you'll find anywhere) or find some way to compensate for the lack of healing. If it means they have to spend extra days and weeks out in the wilderness, licking their wounds while natural scars slowly accrue all over their bodies (a sore blow for anyone concerned with their physical beauty), so be it. It's not YOUR fault they hate Clerics, but the world isn't going to change to accomodate their less-than-adequate strengths.
Shapedoctor 05-23-04, 11:19 PM	I wouldn't change anything either. Let them learn.
Ehlana 05-23-04, 11:42 PM	Originally posted by RobTzu Change nothing. Let them figure it out. The world is as it is, don't bend to the P.C.'s. I always hated a forest that had Cr5 creatures when the P.C.'s are fifth level and nothing but bunnies when they are 1st level. Bunnies! As to the rogue being the only class you can live without, that doesn't say too much for the life expectancy of my currently rogueless party. But throwing them potions, healing ponds, and even occasionally letting them just deal with it is good. I don't think any one method should be used but all should be incorporated for variety's sake. Boy did that sound trite.
Capn Charlie 05-24-04, 02:05 AM	I have to weigh in here as well. I believe that the Healer class in the Miniatures Handbook was tailor made for the Heal Monkey NPCs. I also suggest tacking on a few Vows from The Book of Exalted Deeds, namely Peace, and Poverty. Engineer the NPC's personality to be one where he follows teh pcs around to heal them while they do good deeds. IT also works as a great Plot Hook ApplicatorŽ. Whenever you want the pcs to take on some adventure for the greater good, just have the Healer say that he will go elsewhere and find real heros to take careof, if they refuse. Of course just because he has a vow of poverty does not mean he is not a drain on loot. Have on of his stipulations be that a Half(or full, if such is your whim) Share of all treasure be donated to righteous and worthy causes. It is also good for having him protest against killing Walking ClueŽ npcs before their payload has been delivered.
Sucineri 05-24-04, 02:19 AM	It is also good for having him protest against killing Walking ClueŽ npcs before their payload has been delivered. But that would be DM meta-gaming..unless this cleric protested killing EVERYTHING (Vow of Peace).
Autosponge 05-24-04, 12:43 PM	I recommend you play the game. Don't treat them with kid gloves and don't by any means make disposable NPCs available for the party's misuse. Make them pay full market value for their CLW potions, and eventually they'll realize that CLW isn't enough when you take 30 points of damage in one round--that's when someone will make the decision. It's their party, DM's have no business in party politics unless it's keeping the game from being played (i.e., a pair of numbskulls can't get along). Let the party set their strategies, lineups, gold split, etc. You just worry about the baddies.
meabolex 05-24-04, 01:07 PM	Rangers, Paladins, Clerics, and Bards can heal with wands. Encourage at least one of your team members to take at least one level of one of these classes so they can activate spell triggered wands and staffs. Rangers make the greatest single level in the game for this. You get track, favored enemy, wild empathy, 2 good saves, a not-too-bad d8 hit die, 6+int skills, and no loss of full BaB. The negative to this is you must play a half-elf or human to prevent multiclass penalties (or your race's favored class). Rogues can heal with UMD, but the check is usually too high in the beginning for it to be of any major importance. I wouldn't count on that healing.
Salla 05-24-04, 01:14 PM	Firstly, my opinion, people who say 'healers don't do anything' are apprently not paying attention. There are no 'non-combat' classes in D&D; everybody who gets healing spells is capable of doing a *lot* more. Clerics kick butt. Druids kick butt. Paladins smite butt. Bards ... uhm ... well, okay, bards know a lot. More than likely, they're afraid that the other party members are going to be so foolish as to throw themselves into stupid situations and expect the cleric (the typical healer) to spend all his time running around helping them. The solution to this, of course, is to play a Cleric of a 'martial' diety (I say martial rather than war so I'm not implying a domain choice). Why? This means your cleric's job is to kick butt first, heal later. I played a Cleric of Thor once, and sure enough, people were throwing themselves into stupid situations expecting me to fix them up later. I refused, because Thor's dogma includes a strong leaning towards self-sufficiency. In short, "I'm you get hurt in battle, I'll heal you after the battle. If you get hurt because you're being STUPID, you're out of luck." They wised up in a hurry.
Capn Charlie 05-24-04, 01:23 PM	Originally posted by Sucineri unless this cleric protested killing EVERYTHING (Vow of Peace). Yep, that's the idea. But more than anything just foes that wer no longer a threat. Like protesting the rogue going around slitting the throats(coup de grace) of enemies in the negatives, or asleep or held enemies. Run him as a real "hippocratic oath" npc. IT would get infuriating after a while, though. Originally posted by Autosponge don't by any means make disposable NPCs available for the party's misuse Well, I wouldn't say having hirelings and NPCs in the party is misusing them. IF it is acceptable for the rest of the party to get together, then why not have one more join? All teh npcs that have ever went along with my parties have had full shares of loot, and the considerations given to full party members. I hardly consider that "misuse". However, consider an npc healer type of some mercenary god or goddess(Waukeen, in my case) that goes along with the group, gets a full share of treasure, and then charges them by the spellcasting rules out of the PHB for healing spells. Give her Brew potion, and craft wand too, then let her sell the pcs potions and wands at full price. I am hard pressed to see how that is able to be considered giving them anything.
Tranq 05-24-04, 02:04 PM	Just leave 'em be. They'll be fine. One of my groups has 5 cleric levels out of about 56 total (7 level 8 characters), and does just fine. The other group is playing in a campaign setting with *no* magic healing, and they don't seem to be suffering too much, although i've had to look more carefully at the rules for natural healing. The only think you need to do is take into account that fact that they are less likely to be on full health at the beginning of each encounter, and more likely to visit temples, buy potiones etc, but it's likely to balance out by them becoming more cautious. And on a side note: They don't want to play clerics because they're boring? FOOLS. Seroiusly, clerics rock. go clerics. as someone wise I know once said: "Everyone says clerics are inneffective, but i'll just sit here with my wand of searing light safe in the knowledge I know something they don't"