Campain for new players [Archive] - Wizards Community

Campain for new players [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Norsesmithy
05-24-06, 03:43 AM I am writing a campain for 5 people who have never played dnd. I am writing a small dungeon for the first session, and want to make sure I am making appropriate challenges. The party will start at lvl 1 and I intend for them to level up in this dungeon.

The party consists of a human paladin, who is probably the most potent charactor at the moment, a Half-orc barbarian, a gnomish druid, a human sorcerer (all offensive spells), and a human rogue. The party was reasonably intelegent with their equipment, skill, and feat choices, so they should be rather effective, and well balanced.

I would like to know if this room is a reasonable challenge for this party, as It seems to me that it might be to tough.

It should be the third room (and maybe the fifth fight) ever for the party,

The two doors to the room are locked, but anyone in the party, but the gnome, can smash them open if they take a 10.

There is a tattered strand of rope poking out from under the bottom of the door,as you try to pick it up you hear(assuming success in DC 10 listen check) a faint sound like jingle-bells. Something in the next room yelps and you hear a thumping noise.

That is 4 kobolds dumping over a over a table to take cover behind, 3 have light crossbows(with 10 bolts each), and the fourth carries 5 spears, the room is 60 feet long, the kobolds and their baracade are 50 feet into the utter darkness(so the torch of whomever kicks down the door does not reveil them) the combat initiates immediately<<<first question: Can the kobolds ready action to shoot whomever opens the door?>>> In the spaces immediately after the doors, are caltrops, and the remainder of the rope and bell trick.<<<Second Question: does this count as a trap? If so does the rogue get to try to disarm it?>>>

The kobold warriors are as follows:

One is str 6 con 12 dex 14 int 10 wis 12 cha 10, with a light xbow, bolts, and a heavy pick, wearing studded leather, with 8 hp
Another is str 8 con 10 dex 12 int 14 wis 12 cha 10, with a light xbow, bolts, and a scimitar, wearing standard leather, with 5 hp
The bruiser of the group is str 12 con 10 dex 14 int 10 wis 8 cha 10, with 5 spears and a greatsword, with 8hp
The last kobold has a str of 6, con 8 dex 16 int 12 wis 12, and cha 10, using a light xbow and a heavy flail.

While ranged attacking, they have total cover.

Would the two str6 kobolds be better served with reach weapons?

Thanks for any and all help.
Androcus Divinicus
05-24-06, 04:41 AM <<<first question: Can the kobolds ready action to shoot whomever opens the door?>>>
Well ... no. They do, however get to act in the surprise round unless the PCs figure out that they're about to be attacked. A possible deduction from the information you've given them ... but, imo, an unlikely one.

Alternatively, you could have combat start when someone picks up the rope and roll initiative from there ... but I wouldn't take that route because then you have to chose between alerting the PCs that they're about to be attacked (and, since they're new, they might have a hard time separating character knowledge from player knowledge), or rolling their initiative for them which is something that some players (at least mine) don't like.

In the spaces immediately after the doors, are caltrops, and the remainder of the rope and bell trick.<<<Second Question: does this count as a trap? If so does the rogue get to try to disarm it?>>>
I don't see how this counts as a trap. If the rope is somehow connected to the door in such a manner so that if the rogue picks the lock and tried to open the doors quietly, the bells would still go off, then maybe. But, that'd still require that the rogue can reach the part of the rope that attaches to the door to disarm it.

I'd say this falls under the category of room hazards, not traps.

The kobold warriors are as follows:

One is str 6 con 12 dex 14 int 10 wis 12 cha 10, with a light xbow, bolts, and a heavy pick, wearing studded leather, with 8 hp
Another is str 8 con 10 dex 12 int 14 wis 12 cha 10, with a light xbow, bolts, and a scimitar, wearing standard leather, with 5 hp
The bruiser of the group is str 12 con 8 dex 12 int 10 wis 12 cha 10, with 5 spears and a greatsword, with 7hp
The last kobold has a str of 6, con 8 dex 16 int 12 wis 12, and cha 10, using a light xbow and a heavy flail.

While ranged attacking, they have total cover.

Would the two str6 kobolds be better served with reach weapons?

Technically, they have total concealment from the darkness. They can't get total cover and still be able to see the their ranged targets unless they have the ability to see through or around the table via magical or mundane means. So ... unless they've got some trick mirrors set up (and have practiced attacking that way), if they take total cover from the table, the PCs benefit from total concealment since the kobolds won't be able to see them.

Regardless of their strength scores, any of the kobolds who have very few hp (relative to their companions), would be better served by a reach weapon.

Regards,
Justin.
Norsesmithy
05-24-06, 04:46 AM thanks,but what sort of cover would crouching behind a over-turned large tabe give you? (I was thinking that only really their heads and the crossbows would be visible)
Androcus Divinicus
05-24-06, 05:37 AM Well, by 3.0 rules you could take a number of different degrees of cover that would allow you different bonuses to your AC. By 3.5 rules there's No Cover, Cover, and Total Cover. Cover:To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC).
When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has cover if any line from your square to the target’s square goes through a wall (including a low wall). When making a melee attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks.
Low Obstacles and Cover: A low obstacle (such as a wall no higher than half your height) provides cover, but only to creatures within 30 feet (6 squares) of it. The attacker can ignore the cover if he’s closer to the obstacle than his target.
<snip>
Total Cover: If you don’t have line of effect to your target he is considered to have total cover from you. You can’t make an attack against a target that has total cover.
Varying Degrees of Cover: In some cases, cover may provide a greater bonus to AC and Reflex saves. In such situations the normal cover bonuses to AC and Reflex saves can be doubled (to +8 and +4, respectively). A creature with this improved cover effectively gains improved evasion against any attack to which the Reflex save bonus applies. Furthermore, improved cover provides a +10 bonus on Hide checks. So, you could make it more than just a +4 to AC, but I wouldn't make it much more ... even if it's just the head sticking over the table, while the head represents much less than 50% of the total body area, it does represent a significant portion of the "fragile" body area. Also, taking almost total cover behind an object makes it more difficult to attack around that object. IMO anyway.

One other thing ... these kobolds already have total concealment, which means your PCs must guess at the square their attackers occupy. If they guess correctly, a successful attack into that square still has a 50% miss chance. So if the kobold normally has an AC of 15, he gets a further +4 for Cover bringing him to 19. 1st level characters would have, at best, what? +2 to +4 to hit? Assuming they have a +3, that means they need to roll a 16 or better which means they only normally would hit 25% of the time. With a 50% miss change, they'll only be hitting 12.5% of the time. I'd say your kobolds are (or at least would think themselves so) well protected.

Regards,
Justin.
Norsesmithy
05-24-06, 10:33 AM Yeah, I figure ranged attacks are going to be ineffective, as since my kobolds used a true stat roll, and I equipped them better than normal, they have up to AC 18 (or two of them do anyway), so I figure that any ranged is probably a poor choice of attack, with ranged attack the rogue wins with +4 to hit.
In Melee, the paladin wins with +6 (weapon focus, bab, and 18 str)

I have switched the scimitar user and the heavy pick guy to glaives, and the flail guy to a longspear, saving enough of the treasure total to upgrade the G-sword man's armor to scale.

What would make smart feat choices for these kobolds?
terrainmonkey
05-24-06, 10:51 AM you are making too much work for yourself. if your players are new to the game, then here's my thoughts on what you should do.

first, the rope under the door is an obvious trap. no player in thier right mind would go for it. so, if you described it the way you did, most players would go for a find traps/disable action. so, lets say for the sake of argument that you have the bells on the door and it cannot be disabled. fine. the bells go off either way. this isn't a problem. The kobolds are alerted, and they overturn the table and get ready to defend thier lair.

The players barge in the door. Combat ensues. the first thing that happens is that the kobolds shoot crossbows at the party. i would say this is 75% cover. Also, the kobold with a spear throws. now, you have then the initiavie round. you also have 4 kobolds and 4 spears. each one grabs a spear to defend from behind the table.

The party will more than likely charge. if you have a barbarian and a paladin and either of them have cleave, then this encounter will be over in 2 rounds. Kobolds are a one hit kill (OHK) monster. they have maybe a 13 AC at best. They are cannon fodder in this encounter. Sure, as the party advances, they get AOOs against them, but that's only one attack. At best, in the Best case scenario, your kobolds would get 3 attacks. One shot at the door, one AOO, and one in normal melee. By that point all of them are dead.

Now, on to equipment and stats. you don't need to stat them out at all. you don't need to give them feats, or extra weapons, or anything that makes them extraordinary. use the basic MM1 stat line. that's all you need to do.
so, here's what you should have on the prep list for the room:

Room 3.
Kobolds, 4 (hp 4, ac 13, Attk bonus +2, Init +1) Spears, and crossbows. trigger trap, search dc 13, disable device 20. bell sounds alarm, kobolds get behind table. 75% cover for first round. each kobold has 3 sp, and one has a diamond worth 10 gp. that's it.
Zombayz1
05-24-06, 11:11 AM Don't forget increased AC from crouching!!
I have made a few crossbow snipers, so I know what I am talking about.
Or at least I hope I do.
Norsesmithy
05-24-06, 11:38 AM terranmonkey, I have like 14 rooms in the dungeon,I made most of them monsters strait out of the MM, but to make a recently abandoned mine more interesting than 100% that, because it is mildly unsatisfying. I was just asking for a critique of one of the four "customized monsters" roomsI am writing, these kobolds going to be more formidable than mm kobolds simply through strategy, and the fact that they have better equipment and stats.

Would weapon focus be good for the kobolds, or maybe toughness?
terrainmonkey
05-24-06, 12:04 PM oh okay, well in that case, here's what you could do. Really no offense meant in my earlier post. i thought i was giving advice to help a new DM.

if you want to make this an encounter with bite, make the kobolds fighters, level 1. keep the same stuff, but now they have 2 feats. weapon focus is good, toughness is cool. maybe improved initiative. If you feel like you want this to be somewhat of a challenge, make one of them a 1st or 2nd level sorcerer. give him magic missile, mage armor, or something like that. maybe a ring of protection +1.

Here's the thing though. in 99% of the cases with this type of encounter, at this challenge level, your players are going to spend maybe 3 rounds tops, even with the extras you have given them. If this is your group's third or 4th fight ever, it really wouldn't behoove you to do too much to them at all. Here's why:

1--The average fighter type will hit a kobold on a 10+, wizards with magic missile and touch attacks will hit either automatically or knock them down with a sleep spell. then, Coup de grace by the fighters. combat done. you also have a rogue who can flank, get sneak damage and that leads into #2.
2--the average amount of damage that your players will do, even with toughness, will kill a kobold with one hit. period. this is first level we are talking about, not 4th.
3--The average kobold needs an 15+ to hit a pc, even Kobolds with fighter classes because they haven't been optimized and they really can't be at this level. you are looking at maybe 2 feats, of which the best is giving them a better to hit roll, and better initiative. to give them anything else would be a waste.
4--The average amount of damage that a kobold can do to a character is perhaps 3 or 4 at best. chances are, you won't crit at all. even if you do, you are doing perhaps 6-8 points of damage.
5--sure, the kobolds use tactics, but there are only 4 of them. even hiding behind the table they are going to be hampered. they are set up for defense, and in a battle those who defend are going to lose. any student of military tactics knows this is the case.

Knowing all of this speeds up the battle. if you want to give them some oomph but not make it a TPK, then give them 2 warrior levels each, toughness, and weapon focus. make one a sorcerer 3rd level. The warriors would have about 15 hp each, and the sorcerer would have 9 perhaps. But then you've gone from run of the mill MM kobolds to elites. This is if you want the encounter to be more dramatic and memorable for the players.
Bruunwald
05-24-06, 12:29 PM first, the rope under the door is an obvious trap. no player in thier right mind would go for it.

LOL

I don't know about you, but I know twenty-five-year veterans who would still have difficulty resisting something so simple-stupid and curious as a rope poking out from beneath a door.

People can't help it. They have to know. They need to tug on things.

Case in point: About three years ago I wrote a scenario which resulted in five PCs, run by veteran players, standing around a rope dangling from a ceiling. For five minutes they discussed one thing: how they KNEW the floor was going to drop away when they pulled on the rope.

In the end, they pulled on it, anyway. What happened? The floor dropped away. The thing is, I knew it was obvious and I put it in there for two reasons:

One, the obvious usually seems "too obvious," and so generally confuses those who encounter it. It's the hide-in-plain-sight theory. People will generally do the work of confusing an issue for you, if presented something so simple yet incongruous as a rope sticking out of some place.

Two, people are innately - and insanely - curious. They'll do dumb things just to see what will happen.
Norsesmithy
05-24-06, 12:31 PM I was honestly cosidering that, but considering that they will be coming straight from another fight, I felt that might be to intense. If the gnome gets targeted, they hit on 9 or better, unless he is buffed, and I think he will be mainly a healler 'till the paly gets spellcasting. This has the potential to kill the druid outright. Ranged, only the rogue hits on 18, pali and sorc hit on 19s, and that is before 50% miss chance. once they close to melee, it is pretty much over, except for the reach AoOs, and maybe the G-sword man, the paly and barb need 12s to hit him.

Oh, and no one has cleave.

And You are giving advice to a new dm, just a smart one.

And of course they are going to lose, thats why they are npcs.
Norsesmithy
05-31-06, 01:01 PM Update, ran this room, the gnome druid went to -11 in the suprise round, the rogue did just flat out pull the rope, the pali was the only pc to avoid caltrop damage.

Other than the bit with the druid, it went well, and fun was had by all (the druid was unhappy with his charector any way). But having lost their primary healer, the team used basically the same room configuration to spend the night in the dungeon. it took two more in game days before they buried the gnome, the sorc kept trying to convice the pali that the druid wanted to be eaten by wolves, as that "would return him to nature."

The rogue was decently wounded by the LN G-swording kobold, and the paly only barely made a diplomacy role to make him stop attacking, which would have suited the player of the gnome fine, and would have been cool, playing the charector that killed your previous one (with a thrown spear critical hit), but the sorc crossbowed him dead, which angered the pali (and the player of the gnome).

Sorc could not understand Draconic, so he didn't know there was a cease fire (in charector), so I ruled the action non-evil.

Just thought you folks might want to know how it went, and thank you again for the advice.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Norsesmithy 05-24-06, 03:43 AM	I am writing a campain for 5 people who have never played dnd. I am writing a small dungeon for the first session, and want to make sure I am making appropriate challenges. The party will start at lvl 1 and I intend for them to level up in this dungeon. The party consists of a human paladin, who is probably the most potent charactor at the moment, a Half-orc barbarian, a gnomish druid, a human sorcerer (all offensive spells), and a human rogue. The party was reasonably intelegent with their equipment, skill, and feat choices, so they should be rather effective, and well balanced. I would like to know if this room is a reasonable challenge for this party, as It seems to me that it might be to tough. It should be the third room (and maybe the fifth fight) ever for the party, The two doors to the room are locked, but anyone in the party, but the gnome, can smash them open if they take a 10. There is a tattered strand of rope poking out from under the bottom of the door,as you try to pick it up you hear(assuming success in DC 10 listen check) a faint sound like jingle-bells. Something in the next room yelps and you hear a thumping noise. That is 4 kobolds dumping over a over a table to take cover behind, 3 have light crossbows(with 10 bolts each), and the fourth carries 5 spears, the room is 60 feet long, the kobolds and their baracade are 50 feet into the utter darkness(so the torch of whomever kicks down the door does not reveil them) the combat initiates immediately<<<first question: Can the kobolds ready action to shoot whomever opens the door?>>> In the spaces immediately after the doors, are caltrops, and the remainder of the rope and bell trick.<<<Second Question: does this count as a trap? If so does the rogue get to try to disarm it?>>> The kobold warriors are as follows: One is str 6 con 12 dex 14 int 10 wis 12 cha 10, with a light xbow, bolts, and a heavy pick, wearing studded leather, with 8 hp Another is str 8 con 10 dex 12 int 14 wis 12 cha 10, with a light xbow, bolts, and a scimitar, wearing standard leather, with 5 hp The bruiser of the group is str 12 con 10 dex 14 int 10 wis 8 cha 10, with 5 spears and a greatsword, with 8hp The last kobold has a str of 6, con 8 dex 16 int 12 wis 12, and cha 10, using a light xbow and a heavy flail. While ranged attacking, they have total cover. Would the two str6 kobolds be better served with reach weapons? Thanks for any and all help.
Androcus Divinicus 05-24-06, 04:41 AM	<<<first question: Can the kobolds ready action to shoot whomever opens the door?>>> Well ... no. They do, however get to act in the surprise round unless the PCs figure out that they're about to be attacked. A possible deduction from the information you've given them ... but, imo, an unlikely one. Alternatively, you could have combat start when someone picks up the rope and roll initiative from there ... but I wouldn't take that route because then you have to chose between alerting the PCs that they're about to be attacked (and, since they're new, they might have a hard time separating character knowledge from player knowledge), or rolling their initiative for them which is something that some players (at least mine) don't like. In the spaces immediately after the doors, are caltrops, and the remainder of the rope and bell trick.<<<Second Question: does this count as a trap? If so does the rogue get to try to disarm it?>>> I don't see how this counts as a trap. If the rope is somehow connected to the door in such a manner so that if the rogue picks the lock and tried to open the doors quietly, the bells would still go off, then maybe. But, that'd still require that the rogue can reach the part of the rope that attaches to the door to disarm it. I'd say this falls under the category of room hazards, not traps. The kobold warriors are as follows: One is str 6 con 12 dex 14 int 10 wis 12 cha 10, with a light xbow, bolts, and a heavy pick, wearing studded leather, with 8 hp Another is str 8 con 10 dex 12 int 14 wis 12 cha 10, with a light xbow, bolts, and a scimitar, wearing standard leather, with 5 hp The bruiser of the group is str 12 con 8 dex 12 int 10 wis 12 cha 10, with 5 spears and a greatsword, with 7hp The last kobold has a str of 6, con 8 dex 16 int 12 wis 12, and cha 10, using a light xbow and a heavy flail. While ranged attacking, they have total cover. Would the two str6 kobolds be better served with reach weapons? Technically, they have total concealment from the darkness. They can't get total cover and still be able to see the their ranged targets unless they have the ability to see through or around the table via magical or mundane means. So ... unless they've got some trick mirrors set up (and have practiced attacking that way), if they take total cover from the table, the PCs benefit from total concealment since the kobolds won't be able to see them. Regardless of their strength scores, any of the kobolds who have very few hp (relative to their companions), would be better served by a reach weapon. Regards, Justin.
Norsesmithy 05-24-06, 04:46 AM	thanks,but what sort of cover would crouching behind a over-turned large tabe give you? (I was thinking that only really their heads and the crossbows would be visible)
Androcus Divinicus 05-24-06, 05:37 AM	Well, by 3.0 rules you could take a number of different degrees of cover that would allow you different bonuses to your AC. By 3.5 rules there's No Cover, Cover, and Total Cover. Cover:To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC). When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has cover if any line from your square to the target’s square goes through a wall (including a low wall). When making a melee attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks. Low Obstacles and Cover: A low obstacle (such as a wall no higher than half your height) provides cover, but only to creatures within 30 feet (6 squares) of it. The attacker can ignore the cover if he’s closer to the obstacle than his target. <snip> Total Cover: If you don’t have line of effect to your target he is considered to have total cover from you. You can’t make an attack against a target that has total cover. Varying Degrees of Cover: In some cases, cover may provide a greater bonus to AC and Reflex saves. In such situations the normal cover bonuses to AC and Reflex saves can be doubled (to +8 and +4, respectively). A creature with this improved cover effectively gains improved evasion against any attack to which the Reflex save bonus applies. Furthermore, improved cover provides a +10 bonus on Hide checks. So, you could make it more than just a +4 to AC, but I wouldn't make it much more ... even if it's just the head sticking over the table, while the head represents much less than 50% of the total body area, it does represent a significant portion of the "fragile" body area. Also, taking almost total cover behind an object makes it more difficult to attack around that object. IMO anyway. One other thing ... these kobolds already have total concealment, which means your PCs must guess at the square their attackers occupy. If they guess correctly, a successful attack into that square still has a 50% miss chance. So if the kobold normally has an AC of 15, he gets a further +4 for Cover bringing him to 19. 1st level characters would have, at best, what? +2 to +4 to hit? Assuming they have a +3, that means they need to roll a 16 or better which means they only normally would hit 25% of the time. With a 50% miss change, they'll only be hitting 12.5% of the time. I'd say your kobolds are (or at least would think themselves so) well protected. Regards, Justin.
Norsesmithy 05-24-06, 10:33 AM	Yeah, I figure ranged attacks are going to be ineffective, as since my kobolds used a true stat roll, and I equipped them better than normal, they have up to AC 18 (or two of them do anyway), so I figure that any ranged is probably a poor choice of attack, with ranged attack the rogue wins with +4 to hit. In Melee, the paladin wins with +6 (weapon focus, bab, and 18 str) I have switched the scimitar user and the heavy pick guy to glaives, and the flail guy to a longspear, saving enough of the treasure total to upgrade the G-sword man's armor to scale. What would make smart feat choices for these kobolds?
terrainmonkey 05-24-06, 10:51 AM	you are making too much work for yourself. if your players are new to the game, then here's my thoughts on what you should do. first, the rope under the door is an obvious trap. no player in thier right mind would go for it. so, if you described it the way you did, most players would go for a find traps/disable action. so, lets say for the sake of argument that you have the bells on the door and it cannot be disabled. fine. the bells go off either way. this isn't a problem. The kobolds are alerted, and they overturn the table and get ready to defend thier lair. The players barge in the door. Combat ensues. the first thing that happens is that the kobolds shoot crossbows at the party. i would say this is 75% cover. Also, the kobold with a spear throws. now, you have then the initiavie round. you also have 4 kobolds and 4 spears. each one grabs a spear to defend from behind the table. The party will more than likely charge. if you have a barbarian and a paladin and either of them have cleave, then this encounter will be over in 2 rounds. Kobolds are a one hit kill (OHK) monster. they have maybe a 13 AC at best. They are cannon fodder in this encounter. Sure, as the party advances, they get AOOs against them, but that's only one attack. At best, in the Best case scenario, your kobolds would get 3 attacks. One shot at the door, one AOO, and one in normal melee. By that point all of them are dead. Now, on to equipment and stats. you don't need to stat them out at all. you don't need to give them feats, or extra weapons, or anything that makes them extraordinary. use the basic MM1 stat line. that's all you need to do. so, here's what you should have on the prep list for the room: Room 3. Kobolds, 4 (hp 4, ac 13, Attk bonus +2, Init +1) Spears, and crossbows. trigger trap, search dc 13, disable device 20. bell sounds alarm, kobolds get behind table. 75% cover for first round. each kobold has 3 sp, and one has a diamond worth 10 gp. that's it.
Zombayz1 05-24-06, 11:11 AM	Don't forget increased AC from crouching!! I have made a few crossbow snipers, so I know what I am talking about. Or at least I hope I do.
Norsesmithy 05-24-06, 11:38 AM	terranmonkey, I have like 14 rooms in the dungeon,I made most of them monsters strait out of the MM, but to make a recently abandoned mine more interesting than 100% that, because it is mildly unsatisfying. I was just asking for a critique of one of the four "customized monsters" roomsI am writing, these kobolds going to be more formidable than mm kobolds simply through strategy, and the fact that they have better equipment and stats. Would weapon focus be good for the kobolds, or maybe toughness?
terrainmonkey 05-24-06, 12:04 PM	oh okay, well in that case, here's what you could do. Really no offense meant in my earlier post. i thought i was giving advice to help a new DM. if you want to make this an encounter with bite, make the kobolds fighters, level 1. keep the same stuff, but now they have 2 feats. weapon focus is good, toughness is cool. maybe improved initiative. If you feel like you want this to be somewhat of a challenge, make one of them a 1st or 2nd level sorcerer. give him magic missile, mage armor, or something like that. maybe a ring of protection +1. Here's the thing though. in 99% of the cases with this type of encounter, at this challenge level, your players are going to spend maybe 3 rounds tops, even with the extras you have given them. If this is your group's third or 4th fight ever, it really wouldn't behoove you to do too much to them at all. Here's why: 1--The average fighter type will hit a kobold on a 10+, wizards with magic missile and touch attacks will hit either automatically or knock them down with a sleep spell. then, Coup de grace by the fighters. combat done. you also have a rogue who can flank, get sneak damage and that leads into #2. 2--the average amount of damage that your players will do, even with toughness, will kill a kobold with one hit. period. this is first level we are talking about, not 4th. 3--The average kobold needs an 15+ to hit a pc, even Kobolds with fighter classes because they haven't been optimized and they really can't be at this level. you are looking at maybe 2 feats, of which the best is giving them a better to hit roll, and better initiative. to give them anything else would be a waste. 4--The average amount of damage that a kobold can do to a character is perhaps 3 or 4 at best. chances are, you won't crit at all. even if you do, you are doing perhaps 6-8 points of damage. 5--sure, the kobolds use tactics, but there are only 4 of them. even hiding behind the table they are going to be hampered. they are set up for defense, and in a battle those who defend are going to lose. any student of military tactics knows this is the case. Knowing all of this speeds up the battle. if you want to give them some oomph but not make it a TPK, then give them 2 warrior levels each, toughness, and weapon focus. make one a sorcerer 3rd level. The warriors would have about 15 hp each, and the sorcerer would have 9 perhaps. But then you've gone from run of the mill MM kobolds to elites. This is if you want the encounter to be more dramatic and memorable for the players.
Bruunwald 05-24-06, 12:29 PM	first, the rope under the door is an obvious trap. no player in thier right mind would go for it. LOL I don't know about you, but I know twenty-five-year veterans who would still have difficulty resisting something so simple-stupid and curious as a rope poking out from beneath a door. People can't help it. They have to know. They need to tug on things. Case in point: About three years ago I wrote a scenario which resulted in five PCs, run by veteran players, standing around a rope dangling from a ceiling. For five minutes they discussed one thing: how they KNEW the floor was going to drop away when they pulled on the rope. In the end, they pulled on it, anyway. What happened? The floor dropped away. The thing is, I knew it was obvious and I put it in there for two reasons: One, the obvious usually seems "too obvious," and so generally confuses those who encounter it. It's the hide-in-plain-sight theory. People will generally do the work of confusing an issue for you, if presented something so simple yet incongruous as a rope sticking out of some place. Two, people are innately - and insanely - curious. They'll do dumb things just to see what will happen.
Norsesmithy 05-24-06, 12:31 PM	I was honestly cosidering that, but considering that they will be coming straight from another fight, I felt that might be to intense. If the gnome gets targeted, they hit on 9 or better, unless he is buffed, and I think he will be mainly a healler 'till the paly gets spellcasting. This has the potential to kill the druid outright. Ranged, only the rogue hits on 18, pali and sorc hit on 19s, and that is before 50% miss chance. once they close to melee, it is pretty much over, except for the reach AoOs, and maybe the G-sword man, the paly and barb need 12s to hit him. Oh, and no one has cleave. And You are giving advice to a new dm, just a smart one. And of course they are going to lose, thats why they are npcs.
Norsesmithy 05-31-06, 01:01 PM	Update, ran this room, the gnome druid went to -11 in the suprise round, the rogue did just flat out pull the rope, the pali was the only pc to avoid caltrop damage. Other than the bit with the druid, it went well, and fun was had by all (the druid was unhappy with his charector any way). But having lost their primary healer, the team used basically the same room configuration to spend the night in the dungeon. it took two more in game days before they buried the gnome, the sorc kept trying to convice the pali that the druid wanted to be eaten by wolves, as that "would return him to nature." The rogue was decently wounded by the LN G-swording kobold, and the paly only barely made a diplomacy role to make him stop attacking, which would have suited the player of the gnome fine, and would have been cool, playing the charector that killed your previous one (with a thrown spear critical hit), but the sorc crossbowed him dead, which angered the pali (and the player of the gnome). Sorc could not understand Draconic, so he didn't know there was a cease fire (in charector), so I ruled the action non-evil. Just thought you folks might want to know how it went, and thank you again for the advice.