Post/Author/DateTime	Post
copersonic 10-08-04, 02:06 AM	OK, so im a kinda new DM and my group has been playing some of the downloadable adventures n stuff and i finaly decided to make one of my own. I am basically looking for a few tips on interesting plot stuff or anything like that.Basically a band of werewolves led by a werewolf lord destroys a town who the PC wander into at midnight. The thing empowering the werewolves is that there is a local temple that makes every night becme a full moon. There is one survivor who is injured and he asks for Belledonna root "wolfsbane". when they return they are attacked by a wolf (possibly a werewolf) and a PC gets bitten. They then c a "group of mysterious shadows enter the forest" and are compelled to follow them. The group is a group sent to fight the werewolfs. the adventureers invite the party along and every night both the paladin of the NPC group, and the PC who is bit disapeer while the party sleeps ( the players only leave a famliar at max to gaurd them while they sleep, nnever aPC) the paladins excuse is that he's hunting werewolfs (endless pursuite of justice crap). Here is my main dillema, how do i explain to the character (because he becomes an NPC that attacks the party or at least their NPC allies) that he cant do anything when the party is awakened. i really wanna include this because it makes th party accuse people of some1 bieng the wolf (who may turn on them ,but they wont kill a fellow PC, making it even more difficult). my best idea is to take him aside and tell him he must sit out every night cuz hes evil. What really makes this hard is that its all live (not doing it over the comp its face to face), so it would be a givaway if he just didnt play... yea im stumped so help... i have a few technical questions that i will post after i get some awnsers cuz this post is hecka long right now.
Dash Branaghan 10-08-04, 02:19 AM	Well, first of all, don't expect your players to go along with your plans. If there is one thing they will do, it will be mess with your plans. Keep in mind a single werewolf is CR 3. Which means that 4 3rd level PCs should find it a challenging combat. Multiple werewolves will increase the CR and might be too difficult, especially if they attack in wolf form and the PCs don't have silver items. Third, give the PC who is bitten (I'm sure a couple will get bitten) the chance to roll their save. Don't just arbitrarily make them a werewolf. It sucks to be railroaded like that. Fourth, what is keeping the PCs from just leaving? Personally I would get out of there, alternative adventure group or not. Now, to make someone untrusted, you simply have them vanish on their watch and have the party attacked. Pretty simple. Have the party on the ropes and then have the character return to "chase" the enemy away. There are other things as well like for example, give them a pendant with a symbol of a wolf that they keep hidden but a successful Spot check at DC 20 will enable a PC to notice it. Dash
copersonic 10-08-04, 02:51 AM	like i said it is live roleplaying, and i kno most of these people pretty well, infact they are prett must my best friends , and they are pretty unbriliant when it comes to foiling plans unless u give them the awnsers. So im not to worried about them foiling my plans, however i have thought about it and have a few backup plans incase they decide to do different stuff. for the second part they could easily own a werewolf, so im making them in like groups of 2, or i have thought about making them elite, like it says in the SRD. thirdy, i am ussually pretty good about my saves and so fourth, but the wolf gets a suprise round in which PC's are flat footed, negating there dexterity bonus on there AC and other stuff, but i intend on making him a werewolf, but there are several readyly availably ways to cure it when he finds out, so he does have a choice as to weather or not he stays a werewolf. and like i said in number 1, i kno these people and they never leave a campaine unless near death, but i would like some reason for them bieng there. and like i said in my first post, they ussually only leave there familiars and animal companions to gaurd them when they sleep, and have never used a PC, i could however kill off or disable there animal friends :devil:, and vividly desribe there scary surroundings... o u ment for the NPC group... i was planning on somthing to that effect, but how do i describe the PC's dissapearence in the middle of the night, as he is the wolf, not the paladin, even tho more evedence points towords the paladin.
Mizik 10-08-04, 05:11 AM	that is i think rail roading. If you say this will happen then it is (no matter what happens they will always be lead by the nose) Of course their is nothing stoping you from creating the situation and seeing what will happen :schemes: Example: 2 or 3 were wolves along with any # of regular wolves attack the party (all look like wolves) the PC's procead to take damage and roll fort saves. (make fake fort saves with every hit to get them realy worried :devil: ) if one or 2 fail fort saves then you have the background you want (make sure they have some control over them selves), but if none become werewolves you can still creat the effect without railroading. Have the wolves use ambush tactics. (that could frame a pc) Example: have a werewolf remove the palidin from the camp site and take off everything he (including clothes) rip them up and spread them across the forest and smear animal blood all over him (they won't know the diffrence) remember the -10 to opposed listen to wake up ( wakeing up helpless to a were wolf would be very frightening) then have the Werewolf attack the party (minus the palidin) then flee into the woods in the palidins direction (make sure it is near dawn but not dawn yet) the palidin wakes up with blood on him and with riped or no clothes (traditional indicators of being a werewolf) and the party finds him like that after dawn. remember it will only fool them for one day since he will not turn into a were wolf the next night. maby have the were wolves launch their full attack then :devil: since the palidin is now tied to a tree Probly should have the were wolf have some levels in rouge.
Dash Branaghan 10-08-04, 03:20 PM	like i said it is live roleplaying, and i kno most of these people pretty well, infact they are prett must my best friends , and they are pretty unbriliant when it comes to foiling plans unless u give them the awnsers. So im not to worried about them foiling my plans, however i have thought about it and have a few backup plans incase they decide to do different stuff. Just to understand something here, most people on these boards do paper and pencil D&D, and that, if anything, tends to lead to more people thwarting plans or finding loopholes or just generally not doing what you want. Being face to face and best friends with them isn't going to change that fact. As far as your assessment of them being "unbrilliant" goes, watch the cockiness. People have a way of catching you off your guard, regardless of what you think of their brilliance. Sure, it may not happen right away, but once people learn the mechanics and rules...well, just take heed of some advice from people who have been there and done that. NEVER underestimate your players. The backup plans are good. I would make sure the backup plans include an alternate adventure just in case they don't take the bait for this one, but there is nothing saying the alternate adventure can't tie into the one you have planned. for the second part they could easily own a werewolf, so im making them in like groups of 2, or i have thought about making them elite, like it says in the SRD. They can defeat a werewolf easily? What level is this group, just out of curiousity? thirdy, i am ussually pretty good about my saves and so fourth, but the wolf gets a suprise round in which PC's are flat footed, negating there dexterity bonus on there AC and other stuff, but i intend on making him a werewolf, but there are several readyly availably ways to cure it when he finds out, so he does have a choice as to weather or not he stays a werewolf. WHOA. Stop the train right there. Why would anyone want to play with you if you arbitrarily make them something they don't want to be or simply toss out the game mechanics to arrange for your little plot hook? I don't care if the players camp in wolfsbane or hand of glory every night, you don't dismiss the game mechanics in one instance and expect your players to run with them the rest of the time. What if the players decided to dismiss the game mechanic of rolling attack rolls? The game wouldn't last that long. And since your group can easily take out a werewolf, odds are they can probably make their save. Is making this player a werewolf that important? If it is, then I suggest you redo your plans, especially if you're trying to turn the party against itself and create mistrust. NPCs do that, yes, but the DM isn't supposed to do it himself at a whim. and like i said in number 1, i kno these people and they never leave a campaine unless near death, but i would like some reason for them bieng there. Are you talking about your players? Or their characters? Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't happen. and like i said in my first post, they ussually only leave there familiars and animal companions to gaurd them when they sleep, and have never used a PC, i could however kill off or disable there animal friends :devil:, and vividly desribe there scary surroundings... o u ment for the NPC group... i was planning on somthing to that effect, but how do i describe the PC's dissapearence in the middle of the night, as he is the wolf, not the paladin, even tho more evedence points towords the paladin. Again, I reiterate, DO NOT RAILROAD YOUR PLAYER. I can't emphasize that enough. If the player contracts lycanthropy by failing his save, great, I'm happy for you, but don't toss out the mechanics just to make it work. I know there will be people who will argue that it's okay, and to some people it is, but to me, it irrevocably destroys my trust in you as a DM. In my current group of players, we have three campaigns and are going down to two campaigns because the third one consists of things like what you are doing. We spent our last session getting railroaded, having our efforts thwarted completely, etc. None of us liked it. When we gather again, that DM is going to find out exactly how we felt about that whole thing, and we're revoking his status. Because he uses the rules he wants to and discards the others. So what is the point in playing if there is no stability? The familiars dying as part of sentry watch during an attack is acceptable, and the players will learn the hard way that familiars are a little more valuable than merely watchdogs. But watch the railroading. Dash
Adraedan 10-08-04, 04:05 PM	Well, this just kind of came to me, and it's kind of loose at the moment but lemme see if I can explain it. The whole thing will be based on misdirection, you need to start the combat and what you're going to need to do is have the werewolf character always be told were "enemies" are, don't say werewolves, say enemies. Now, the whole trick will be that the enemies are the PCs, but he can't know this and niether can the other PCs. So, let's say he says he attacks whatever enemy, let him roll to hit and damage and stuff, but secretly, you figure out what his Actual roll was (using werewolf modifiers) and his actual damage, and then you describe that one of the werewolves hits the PCs, and that's him, you give them the damage ect. It's complicated and I'm far too tired to explain myself well, but I think you should be able to get at what I'm going for. forgot to mention that you'll need to throw some "fake" rolls and round and stuff to make it work, but all in all, if done right, it could work well.
Thomar_of_Uointer 10-08-04, 05:33 PM	Thomar's Lycanthrope campaign setting (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=149367). Take a look. See if you get any ideas. For they lyco character: make sure someone in the party notices his shapeshifting, so that they aren't as inclined to kill him right away. Don't really try to hide it. It should be easy for him to make his first few Will saves to avoid alignment shift, and it's more fair to the player if you give him something that inhibits shapeshifting, or improve his Control Shape checks. Remember, he gets to make Control Shape checks to stay human once he's aware of his condition. I would also allow him to come to his senses if beaten to unconciousness by subdual damage.