Post/Author/DateTime	Post
triss_erventine 01-19-05, 11:31 AM	To my fellow DMs i have a question of some importance all are welcomed to share personal opinions and ideas! I have a party consisting of five 14th level characters Half-orc druid/shapeshifter Wild elf Physic Warrior Dwarven Fighter Triefling Rouge Human Barbarian I want to put them up against a dracolich of the shadow dragon varity this would be this monsters of monsters CR 15 because he is a mature adult and then another 3 for the fact of the dracolich template which would come out to a CR of 18 My question is this too much i don't nessesarly want to kill the whole party off but i don't want this to be a walk in the park either. The encounter would take place at the bottom of a gourge where the shadow dragon will have access to his full powers in the lightless rift!!! Any comments and opinons please as well as how the encounter should be played out would be much appreciated, THank YOU for taking the time to read my thread!
Aeromus 01-19-05, 11:34 AM	Half-orc druid/shapeshifter No it isn't to hard. But, then again I think Druids need thier own XP chart to be balanced.
green_yawgmoth 01-19-05, 11:38 AM	No it isn't to hard. But, then again I think Druids need thier own XP chart to be balanced. They did something like that in 2e and it was even less balanced than the classes are now. On topic: It'll be a tough fight, but if they're smart, they could probably handle it. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Will Brandiman 01-19-05, 11:42 AM	Because you have 5 party members you are slightly stronger than a CR 14 encounter. Maybe CR 15. So, against a CR 1 creature you should have a tough, but not impossible, battle. BUT Unless the dragon is somehow grounded, I suspect your party will be destroyed as it will simply fly-by attack or use it's breath weapon (no cleric to prevent the negative levels from it's breath). Also, if your party is not heavily geared towards ranged combat AND capable of seeing long distances in the dark, then they are going to find it tough.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 01-19-05, 12:10 PM	I'm gonna go out on a lime here and assume that your dracolich is also your BBEG, correct? In that case it would be absurd to assume that it should normally chew only 20% of your party's reasons. A BBEG aught to chew closer to 80%, thus something in a CR range of about party level +2-4 is usually apriote. But what you really need to baer in mind is that the fight will most likely occur on the dragons truff, this will be a huge advantage to the dragon. (Had a second level party learn that the hard way, the dragon was also a CR5 in its lair.) Ho and never forget, 'DRAGON"S ARE TO BE FEARED!'. Show no mercy. ( you may wish to hand out blank character sheets before the session, just in case. :P )
Capt. Pixel 01-19-05, 01:32 PM	If your party has competent players, they should be able to succeed and survive. One thing that I'm finding in the 'teens' level challenges is that whoever gets the drop first (surprise!!) is likely to succeed in that encounter. If your dracolich manages to ambush the party and then gets a high initiative on the first combat round - it's going to be 'Hard Day at Boot Hill'. If the PCs gain the initiave advantage, the reverse is very likely true. Personally I would augment this dracolich, if he's your BBEG, with a couple of lower level lackies. The lackies can draw off spells and melee attacks to give the BBEG a few more rounds to pound the PCs. In any case, ECL notwithstanding, it's still a 5-against-1 fight. Your dracolich is going to get his one round of action, and then five PCs are going to get their one round of action each. If the dracolich can't make his action count, he's going to get pounded in short order. One way to even the odds is for the BBEG to split the scene shortly after the encounter starts and then return in a couple of minutes. This gives the lackies time to harrass the PCs. Those 'buff' spells that the PCs cast will start to wear off after one or two minutes and then they have to fight with less spell-enhanced capabilities. This tactic is especially effective against Divine magic users. Many of their defensive or combat enhancing spells have one round per level durations. Arcane magic tends to fall into the Instantaneous or hours-per-level durations, so that tactic is less effective against wizards and sorcerors. At this level (14) it's only too easy to gain a TPK. The DM has to be very careful, or the game is going to end early for the evening. Everybody (players and DM monsters) now has the ability to deal massive damage in one round. Gameplay is now extremely deadly to all participants. Good luck :cool:
Aeromus 01-19-05, 01:36 PM	The group has a Psychic Warrior and a Druid/Shapeshifter.. battling a flying BBEG ishouldn't even pose a threat.. it would be like fighting any normal encounter. Your lack of a true cleric against an Undead BBEG does make things better, but at least the players won't use Mass, Heal, or Heal to totally gimp your BBEG for 140 damage a cast.
SmokeShadow 01-19-05, 02:41 PM	It looks like they could beat the Dragon. Around 11th Level is the event horizon, the point of no return, the line PCs cross and things get retarded (at least it was in 3.0). I'm not sure of much that would help it survive, honestly. Since he can cast Cleric spells, you might want to have him cast an enlarged Silence. Yes, an enlarged (metamagic) Silence. And then abuse his breath weapon, and physical prowess (which is not actually that great). I'd also suggest Quicken Spell-Like Ability (Mirror Image), but he's about 7 caster levels short for it.
triss_erventine 01-19-05, 03:09 PM	For starters I would like to thank everyone who has posted so far great ideas and thank you for just taking the time to read my thread. I just wanted to give a little more information concerning the situation. First this dracolich is actually Shimmergloom Second my big bad guy is actually Obloud who has struck up a deal with a small group belonging to the cult of the dragon. Third this encounter is supposed to take place after Obloud's forces push into Mithral Hall for a second time near Garunm's Gorge. A small force of cable of cult necromancers i was thinking two 10th level and one maybe 15th level levitate to the bottom of the gorge where Shimmergloom's corpse is and thus they will preforme the dracolich ritual. The party isn't suppose to make it on time to stop them! But they will notice that three clocked figures just walk over the edge of the gorge and with clues from earlier in the campaing it should dawn on them who is going to the bottom of the gorge and why so the party will have to quickly fight its was throught a good sized and orgainized orcish assult with only the aid of the dwarves of Mithral hall and a handful of elvish archers from the Moonwoods. My campagin is picking up where the last book in R.A. Salvatore's Hunter's Blade trilogy left off. If anyone else has any more comment your ideas are more than welcomed thanks for everything you guys do!!!! :D
Loren Pechtel 01-20-05, 12:35 AM	A CR18 BBEG for this party wouldn't bother me. A dragon in it's lair, though, probably is a higher CR than it's book value. Before I would even consider such an encounter I would consider what the party can do to counter the dragon flying around and using it's breath weapon.