Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TwistedElf 05-17-06, 12:45 AM	I am so ****ing fed up with these 3.5 exp rules contradicting themselves I'm about to shoot someone. Can anyone direct me to a link that might actually explain how much exp a player actually gets so that all the rules they drunkenly put in here actually makes sense? i.e. 4 level 2 characters fight 4 level 2 NPC's... each player gets 600 exp for that encounter. The book states that 13.33 encounters should equal a level. Last time I checked 600 times 13.33 equals 7,998. Thats 7,998 exp for the number of encounters the book states it should take to get to the next level. Meanwhile it actually only takes 2,000 exp to get from level 2 to level 3. Absolutely moronic. Can anyone help me make sense of these morons' rules or at least point me in the right direction to a site that might have a better exp table to follow, like the 2nd edition one? Thank you.
Insanit 05-17-06, 12:53 AM	the early levels take a lot less than later ones
Tharivol 05-17-06, 12:58 AM	I am so ****ing fed up with these 3.5 exp rules contradicting themselves I'm about to shoot someone. Can anyone direct me to a link that might actually explain how much exp a player actually gets so that all the rules they drunkenly put in here actually makes sense? i.e. 4 level 2 characters fight 4 level 2 NPC's... each player gets 600 exp for that encounter. The book states that 13.33 encounters should equal a level. Last time I checked 600 times 13.33 equals 7,998. Thats 7,998 exp for the number of encounters the book states it should take to get to the next level. Meanwhile it actually only takes 2,000 exp to get from level 2 to level 3. Absolutely moronic. Can anyone help me make sense of these morons' rules or at least point me in the right direction to a site that might have a better exp table to follow, like the 2nd edition one? Thank you. One level 2 NPC is a level 2 encounter, so you have four times that already. 7,998/4 is approximately 2,000.
TwistedElf 05-17-06, 12:59 AM	But according to the book no matter what, it should take 13.33 encounters for each level. So from level 2 to 3 the same number of encounters happen that would take you from 13 to 14. Just not the same exact encounters themselves, they would have to be of the same EL level to the party.
TwistedElf 05-17-06, 01:00 AM	One level 2 NPC is a level 2 encounter, so you have four times that already. 7,998/4 is approximately 2,000. So your saying ONE level 2 NPC is a equal level encounter for 4 level 2 characters?? :confused: :confused:
Blazinghand 05-17-06, 01:02 AM	A single level 2 NPC is EL 1. Doubling that number raises the EL to 3, and doubling it again raises the EL to 5. EL 5 should not be a very common EL for ECL 2 characters. Think about it this way: 4 ECL 2 characters fight 4 CR 2 NPCs. In theory, this is an even match; the player characters have a 50% chance of being wiped out completely. Even if they do win, there may be only 1 PC left to tell the tale afterwards. For ordinary encounters, the NPCs should use up only 1/5 of the PCs' consumable resources (HP, rage/day, spells, power points, etc), and PCs should be able to restock their consumables at about the time when they run out. An even match should be at best a rarity for the PCs, lest they quickly die. While an even match would garner them many experience points, it is not advisable to use them often against PCs.
Tharivol 05-17-06, 01:07 AM	Not equal to them, no. An encounter with enemies completely equal to the PCs will kill them all half of the time, and could likely kill all but one of them most of the rest of the time. An encounter level equal to the average party level is supposed to use about one-fifth of their resources, so that they can live to have a few more fights in that day.
Bob Loblaw 05-17-06, 01:08 AM	My first recommendation would be to step back and do something else for a while. It will help clear your head. Second, lets go step by step and see where the confusion lies: 1) Determine character's level. So, the PC is level 2. 2) Determine each monster's CR. Each monster is CR 2. 3) Use Table 2-6 (page 37) and find the value for PC level 2/CR 2. Value listed is 600. 4) Divide XP by number of characters in party. Number of characters equals 4. 600/4 = 150. 5) Repeat process for each opponent. In this case: 150*4 = 600. 6) Repeat for each character. Each PC gets 600 XP. So, it looks like you did everything right for your calculations. A few points to remember: 1) When the CR = Party level, the party should use 25% of their resources. This means that you shouldn't be putting them up against this type of challenge constantly. They will only be able to handle it for a short period of time. 2) Low level characters tend to advance relatively quickly. This is to help them get out of the more dangerous low levels when a single bad roll has a good chance of killing them. 3) You can choose to adjust the experience points the party gains based on how fast or slow you would like them to advance. You can also adjust the experience points based on how difficult the adventure is. For example, if you put the party up against some underwater creatures where they are dealing only half damage you may want to increase the XP. If you put them up against a wounded minotaur, you may want to lower the XP. I used to use an XP generator I found on the boards a while back. I think it was called Shadowfax's XP or something like that. I don't have a link because my computer died and I now have a new one. I know that someone will have it somewhere. EDIT: I found one here (http://www.guild.net/~nytmare/XPCalc/XP%20Calculator.xls)
TwistedElf 05-17-06, 01:19 AM	My first recommendation would be to step back and do something else for a while. Haha, I loved that line. :D I will however agree with all of you that pitting my guys against a 4 man group of equal levels was quite painful... only 1 was left standing. None died, but 3 were in the negatives and inoperative. I do see what you are talking about then. Page 49 of the DMG lists how many of what level should be used, but those fights are SO easy. They are like a mulligan in golf... just a gimme. There is no threat to 3rd edition characters if all the fights are like that. My guys don't want babysitter fights, as they call it. So it looks like they will get a little tougher fights, then what page 49 asks for, and lesser exp for those fights. Thanks guys. /bow
Androcus Divinicus 05-17-06, 01:39 AM	Well. As has been mentioned, it wouldn't be 13.33 encounters like the one you referenced to level, it'd be 13.33 encounters of a CR equal to the APL. That said, it is also important to note that the CR system in D&D assumes that you have four people in a party, about four encounters per day, and it assumes "normal" heros. If you have eight players in your party, or you're using Gestalt characters from Unearthed Arcanna, or a 50-point buy ... or you're allowing your characters to have more magical gear than is "normal", or only making them handle one encounter before resting and regaining all their spells and hps, their ability to handle encounters will obviously increase. Also, from your post, it looks as though you might be benefited by re-reading the "Encounters" section of your DMG, found beginning on page 48 and running through page 51. Finally, if you're planning on modifying the exp for an encounter, remember that exp controls character advancement, and that an adjustment in the exp you're handing out without an equal adjustment in the treasure gained from those encounters will throw off the expected character wealth levels. If you're cool with your characters being rich, then there's no problem. But, if you dock exp and not treasure, you will end up with a situation where your PCs have more money (and hence can afford more magical gear) than is normal for their level ... which might, in turn, cause this problem all over again for you. The side-bars on pages 40 and 41 of the DMG address this concern briefly. Regards, Justin.
Cthulhu-LQ 05-17-06, 09:10 AM	Try this http://www.d20srd.org/encounterCalculator.htm It saves headaches