Can it Really do that? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can it Really do that? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
fuzzeymonk
11-14-05, 03:02 PM Okay, my group has this one Pc who trys to use spells very awkwardly, usally for the benefit of the groups survival, i would like to know of ways that other spells can be twisted and manipulated.

i also would like to know if you can casr light on someones eyes, and if you can shape wood/stone sround someones head. Your input is much appreciated.
Chobemaster
11-14-05, 03:06 PM you certainly could cast light on someone's eyes, back when it was a 1st level spell, that was a great use for it.

BUT, it doesn't do anything. flare is the cantrip to be cast upon eyes, they basically separated the 2 uses of the 1st level 1/2 e light spell into 2 cantrips.
Derren S.
11-14-05, 03:17 PM i also would like to know if you can casr light on someones eyes, and if you can shape wood/stone sround someones head. Your input is much appreciated.

Light: No as it can only be casted on objects.

Shape: Nothing speaks against this use but the opportunity won't come up uften. Also the enemy would probably recieve a save as this use is not intended by the spell.
Aeromus
11-14-05, 03:17 PM Wrapping wood stone around someone?

Does the spell description say you can "manipulate the "object" around another player?

While I may possibly allow it, the player in question would get a reflex save to avoid the spell regardless of the saves listed, unless the description had an entry pertaining to the entrapment.

Secondly, the D20 system does NOT have a system to represent body parts. There is only one part of a person. The person. Therefore you "could" cast light on a person, but not a single part.
Lincoln Hills
11-14-05, 03:30 PM ...i would like to know of ways that other spells can be twisted and manipulated.

With the Sculpt Spell feat.

...No, really, you're a great audience. But seriously. There are huge numbers of 'innovative uses'. For instance, did you know that a careful wall of ice can be used to create a ladder, sometimes even a stairway, to 'inaccessible' upper areas? You can use stone shape to conceal objects (a hollow in the stone covered by a thin layer - it's a virtually undetectable cache!). Fireball is an attack spell ordinarily, but it's one heck of a night-time "flare" for signalling distant companions. A combination of flesh to stone and shrink item can end the eternal what-should-we-do-with-the-prisoners debates. Create water can be used to douse most non-magical light sources, giving your group the advantage of darkness without the disadvantage of MAGICAL darkness. You can use ray of frost to keep your beer cold, I suppose. Negative energy protection can, if I don't mis-remember, be cast on a level-draining undead to prevent it from gaining the "benefits" of sucking away your life force. Silent image - well, there are thousands of uses for that one, but I'll just point out that it takes a Spellcraft check (or a headlong rush) to determine the difference between a real wall of thorns and an illusionary one...

Anybody else got some good ones?
Style
11-14-05, 03:37 PM I don't know if the spell description has changed since 3.5, but invisibility use to work on objects. As a player I once encountered a supremely locked door that the DM didn't want us to see/go through as of yet. One cast of invisibility allowed the group to view all the mystical goodies that lay beyond. Messed up the poor DM's plot revelation.
Burning_Shadow
11-14-05, 03:44 PM Stone Shape

I used to think you could do this with Stone Shape, but the more I have read the spell I do not think it is possible. The simple answer for Stone Shape is No...your Player could not do this and here is why:

Stone shape requires a material component of clay which must be shaped or formed into what the stone is to become. I really don't see a PC making that detailed of a clay sculpture in less than 6 seconds. Additionally accounting for the shape the PC must make it hollow as to form around a person. If they did not the only thing it would do it whack them when it popped up out from the stone area you just manipulated. This would give a reflex save. The other draw back to this is the piece of clay has to be set over the center of the area which you are going to manipulate. So the PC would either sculpt it (while his buddies are getting whacked) and run into taking an AoO to place it under the character OR they would have to throw it...which ultimately would ruin the clay sculpture once it hit the stone. So that should give you an idea of how complex it is to do this with the stone shape spell.

Wood Shape

This actually is possible with wood shape. There is no material component, but there are some things to consider. A person would get a reflex save at any such attempt to entrap or entangle them and if the object (tree etc) is still alive it would get a will save as it is against its nature. (This also works for magical intelligent items made from wood too) and the object may have spell resistance. The problem with Wood Shape is you can't do a lot of volume so the characters have to be somewhat close by, but again they would get a reflex save.

I base the reflex saves just as you would a regular spell level DC + caster level. Which I think is pretty realistic when you think about a high-level character moving more mass in the same amount of time compare to a lower level who may be only able to move 12 cubic feet.

Hope that makes sense.
Adraedan
11-14-05, 05:45 PM You should be applauding your PCs for innovative thought. I remember back in my 2nd ed days the wonders of pick-pocketing a delayed blast fireball into a childs pocket and then telling them there was candy in the guard house...the memories bring a tear to my eye, much like the smoking bodies did.
Edymnion
11-14-05, 05:58 PM giving your group the advantage of darkness without the disadvantage of MAGICAL darkness.Yeah, like when everybody and their dog realizes the side of the hill just LIT UP in the middle of the night because some idiot cast 3.5 Darkness :P
DragonDeadite
11-14-05, 06:29 PM Innocation is always a good thing for your players to do. I'd say that Yes, Light can be cast on on a person's eyes as an eyeball is a specific item, but like everyone else has said he doesn't get any penalty from this so it would just be a funny effect to see. Once cast light on a rogue's cloak so we can track him easier. After a while he finaly threw it down and we used the markings on the cloak (his guild mark no less!) to find him later.

As to the Stone Shape... well... why not just make a pit beneith the person? Cause them to fall down into the pit, then close the pit above them. My players made a pit to trap a creature and then just took their leasure shooting at it and made a game out of the whole thing... kinda sucked for me because the creature was meant to be a good fight.

I've always wanted to do a team spell where someone cast Create Water in the crack of the roof of a cave and someone else did a flash freeze on it in order to bring down part of the ceiling on someone... of course, that would bring the chance of bringing down a mountain on everyone, but it would still be cool! :D
Ogmug
11-14-05, 07:05 PM Innocation is always a good thing for your players to do. I'd say that Yes, Light can be cast on on a person's eyes as an eyeball is a specific item, but like everyone else has said he doesn't get any penalty from this so it would just be a funny effect to see. Once cast light on a rogue's cloak so we can track him easier. After a while he finaly threw it down and we used the markings on the cloak (his guild mark no less!) to find him later.

...

Eyes are not objects, unless you are talking about a glass eye.

hmmm... continual light on a glass eye, call it a headlight?
Gauze Fireforge
11-14-05, 09:39 PM You should be applauding your PCs for innovative thought. I remember back in my 2nd ed days the wonders of pick-pocketing a delayed blast fireball into a childs pocket and then telling them there was candy in the guard house...the memories bring a tear to my eye, much like the smoking bodies did.

:rofl: :bow: :clap: :cheer: :w00t: :heehee :plotting: :evillaugh
Tyler Do'Urden
11-14-05, 09:51 PM Yeah, like when everybody and their dog realizes the side of the hill just LIT UP in the middle of the night because some idiot cast 3.5 Darkness :P
Stop doing that.

Casting daylight on the surface of the sun does not make it darker and casting darkness on the night-side of the moon does not make it lighter.

"Shadowy illumination" is a specific game term. Get over it.
fuzzeymonk
11-15-05, 09:19 AM You should be applauding your PCs for innovative thought. I remember back in my 2nd ed days the wonders of pick-pocketing a delayed blast fireball into a childs pocket and then telling them there was candy in the guard house...the memories bring a tear to my eye, much like the smoking bodies did.

I do applaude them for doing it, in fact in one of my buddys campaigns i plaly a druid and he likes to manipulate spells. heres another spell i did, entangle in an underground cave with a bunch of goblins, cast above them.....instant goblin linching :D :D

Stone shape requires a material component of clay which must be shaped or formed into what the stone is to become.

isn't that only apply if your an arcane caster, druids can cast in 3.5

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fuzzeymonk 11-14-05, 03:02 PM	Okay, my group has this one Pc who trys to use spells very awkwardly, usally for the benefit of the groups survival, i would like to know of ways that other spells can be twisted and manipulated. i also would like to know if you can casr light on someones eyes, and if you can shape wood/stone sround someones head. Your input is much appreciated.
Chobemaster 11-14-05, 03:06 PM	you certainly could cast light on someone's eyes, back when it was a 1st level spell, that was a great use for it. BUT, it doesn't do anything. flare is the cantrip to be cast upon eyes, they basically separated the 2 uses of the 1st level 1/2 e light spell into 2 cantrips.
Derren S. 11-14-05, 03:17 PM	i also would like to know if you can casr light on someones eyes, and if you can shape wood/stone sround someones head. Your input is much appreciated. Light: No as it can only be casted on objects. Shape: Nothing speaks against this use but the opportunity won't come up uften. Also the enemy would probably recieve a save as this use is not intended by the spell.
Aeromus 11-14-05, 03:17 PM	Wrapping wood stone around someone? Does the spell description say you can "manipulate the "object" around another player? While I may possibly allow it, the player in question would get a reflex save to avoid the spell regardless of the saves listed, unless the description had an entry pertaining to the entrapment. Secondly, the D20 system does NOT have a system to represent body parts. There is only one part of a person. The person. Therefore you "could" cast light on a person, but not a single part.
Lincoln Hills 11-14-05, 03:30 PM	...i would like to know of ways that other spells can be twisted and manipulated. With the Sculpt Spell feat. ...No, really, you're a great audience. But seriously. There are huge numbers of 'innovative uses'. For instance, did you know that a careful wall of ice can be used to create a ladder, sometimes even a stairway, to 'inaccessible' upper areas? You can use stone shape to conceal objects (a hollow in the stone covered by a thin layer - it's a virtually undetectable cache!). Fireball is an attack spell ordinarily, but it's one heck of a night-time "flare" for signalling distant companions. A combination of flesh to stone and shrink item can end the eternal what-should-we-do-with-the-prisoners debates. Create water can be used to douse most non-magical light sources, giving your group the advantage of darkness without the disadvantage of MAGICAL darkness. You can use ray of frost to keep your beer cold, I suppose. Negative energy protection can, if I don't mis-remember, be cast on a level-draining undead to prevent it from gaining the "benefits" of sucking away your life force. Silent image - well, there are thousands of uses for that one, but I'll just point out that it takes a Spellcraft check (or a headlong rush) to determine the difference between a real wall of thorns and an illusionary one... Anybody else got some good ones?
Style 11-14-05, 03:37 PM	I don't know if the spell description has changed since 3.5, but invisibility use to work on objects. As a player I once encountered a supremely locked door that the DM didn't want us to see/go through as of yet. One cast of invisibility allowed the group to view all the mystical goodies that lay beyond. Messed up the poor DM's plot revelation.
Burning_Shadow 11-14-05, 03:44 PM	Stone Shape I used to think you could do this with Stone Shape, but the more I have read the spell I do not think it is possible. The simple answer for Stone Shape is No...your Player could not do this and here is why: Stone shape requires a material component of clay which must be shaped or formed into what the stone is to become. I really don't see a PC making that detailed of a clay sculpture in less than 6 seconds. Additionally accounting for the shape the PC must make it hollow as to form around a person. If they did not the only thing it would do it whack them when it popped up out from the stone area you just manipulated. This would give a reflex save. The other draw back to this is the piece of clay has to be set over the center of the area which you are going to manipulate. So the PC would either sculpt it (while his buddies are getting whacked) and run into taking an AoO to place it under the character OR they would have to throw it...which ultimately would ruin the clay sculpture once it hit the stone. So that should give you an idea of how complex it is to do this with the stone shape spell. Wood Shape This actually is possible with wood shape. There is no material component, but there are some things to consider. A person would get a reflex save at any such attempt to entrap or entangle them and if the object (tree etc) is still alive it would get a will save as it is against its nature. (This also works for magical intelligent items made from wood too) and the object may have spell resistance. The problem with Wood Shape is you can't do a lot of volume so the characters have to be somewhat close by, but again they would get a reflex save. I base the reflex saves just as you would a regular spell level DC + caster level. Which I think is pretty realistic when you think about a high-level character moving more mass in the same amount of time compare to a lower level who may be only able to move 12 cubic feet. Hope that makes sense.
Adraedan 11-14-05, 05:45 PM	You should be applauding your PCs for innovative thought. I remember back in my 2nd ed days the wonders of pick-pocketing a delayed blast fireball into a childs pocket and then telling them there was candy in the guard house...the memories bring a tear to my eye, much like the smoking bodies did.
Edymnion 11-14-05, 05:58 PM	giving your group the advantage of darkness without the disadvantage of MAGICAL darkness.Yeah, like when everybody and their dog realizes the side of the hill just LIT UP in the middle of the night because some idiot cast 3.5 Darkness :P
DragonDeadite 11-14-05, 06:29 PM	Innocation is always a good thing for your players to do. I'd say that Yes, Light can be cast on on a person's eyes as an eyeball is a specific item, but like everyone else has said he doesn't get any penalty from this so it would just be a funny effect to see. Once cast light on a rogue's cloak so we can track him easier. After a while he finaly threw it down and we used the markings on the cloak (his guild mark no less!) to find him later. As to the Stone Shape... well... why not just make a pit beneith the person? Cause them to fall down into the pit, then close the pit above them. My players made a pit to trap a creature and then just took their leasure shooting at it and made a game out of the whole thing... kinda sucked for me because the creature was meant to be a good fight. I've always wanted to do a team spell where someone cast Create Water in the crack of the roof of a cave and someone else did a flash freeze on it in order to bring down part of the ceiling on someone... of course, that would bring the chance of bringing down a mountain on everyone, but it would still be cool! :D
Ogmug 11-14-05, 07:05 PM	Innocation is always a good thing for your players to do. I'd say that Yes, Light can be cast on on a person's eyes as an eyeball is a specific item, but like everyone else has said he doesn't get any penalty from this so it would just be a funny effect to see. Once cast light on a rogue's cloak so we can track him easier. After a while he finaly threw it down and we used the markings on the cloak (his guild mark no less!) to find him later. ... Eyes are not objects, unless you are talking about a glass eye. hmmm... continual light on a glass eye, call it a headlight?
Gauze Fireforge 11-14-05, 09:39 PM	You should be applauding your PCs for innovative thought. I remember back in my 2nd ed days the wonders of pick-pocketing a delayed blast fireball into a childs pocket and then telling them there was candy in the guard house...the memories bring a tear to my eye, much like the smoking bodies did. :rofl: :bow: :clap: :cheer: :w00t: :heehee :plotting: :evillaugh
Tyler Do'Urden 11-14-05, 09:51 PM	Yeah, like when everybody and their dog realizes the side of the hill just LIT UP in the middle of the night because some idiot cast 3.5 Darkness :P Stop doing that. Casting daylight on the surface of the sun does not make it darker and casting darkness on the night-side of the moon does not make it lighter. "Shadowy illumination" is a specific game term. Get over it.
fuzzeymonk 11-15-05, 09:19 AM	You should be applauding your PCs for innovative thought. I remember back in my 2nd ed days the wonders of pick-pocketing a delayed blast fireball into a childs pocket and then telling them there was candy in the guard house...the memories bring a tear to my eye, much like the smoking bodies did. I do applaude them for doing it, in fact in one of my buddys campaigns i plaly a druid and he likes to manipulate spells. heres another spell i did, entangle in an underground cave with a bunch of goblins, cast above them.....instant goblin linching :D :D Stone shape requires a material component of clay which must be shaped or formed into what the stone is to become. isn't that only apply if your an arcane caster, druids can cast in 3.5