Can my PC have three arms? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can my PC have three arms? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
armeniantwins
05-19-07, 09:26 PM I have a problem. Being a DM, I have a player who cannot use the standard rules. For whatever reason, he has to have a completly new race, class, background, etc.

He has wanted races that Fly, have 20+ feet, are incorporeal, or are morally obliged to destroy all other life. His classes have wanted even more drastic changes. He simply will not be anything at all standard, and even the monster races are not good enough for him, unless they are altered, and have CE undertones. He even tried to use a character from a Future Tech campaign in mine. (Which is standard advanced D&D.)

This is extremly annoying, for both the players and me, and I was wondering what we could do to get him to realize the nearly limitless customization available within the Core races and classes.

P.S.- I don't allow Monster races in my campaigns regardless.
AtmaWeapon
05-19-07, 09:27 PM Say no. It sounds like he doesn't really want to play D&D, so if he can't pick a core race/class, let him walk.

Sorry if it sounds harsh, but it needs to happen. There is a weath of options available, and he needs to understand it is fantasy, and not sci-fi.
Stormbright
05-19-07, 09:33 PM perhaps point him in the direction of the Star Wars d20 game. There are more than enough alien races that should appeal to his sense of playing style.

Otherwise, I'm inclined to agree with previous poster. Seems that he really doesn't want to play the same DND that most of us enjoy. My guess is he's only interested if he can be the center of attention, and as a result, he will most certainly doom your game.
Kouk
05-19-07, 09:48 PM Outlier personality. He wants to be weird to dominate your and everyone else's time. DMGII suggests making silly things he can do that will let him blow of his crazy before the actual important stuff starts, but otherwise just tell him what the approved races are and that's the end.

I think there is a feat or some kind of trait in the BoVD that gives you an extra arm though.
Max Octavious Xavier
05-19-07, 09:59 PM Just say no. Have you asked him why?
celtredleg
05-19-07, 09:59 PM PHB. Door. Let him pick one.

Otherwise dont waste your and everyone elses time.
armeniantwins
05-19-07, 10:00 PM Hmmm... I would just not include him in the campaign, but hes one of those people who everyone socially rejects anyway, so my conscientous (*sigh*) gets in the way and leads me to not ban him outright.

Outlier personality would be fine, as would just demanding that he use only the normal races, but I still can't seem to make him understand why even a +0 Level Adjustment doesn't mean it is a good playable character. Is there some way to get him to just use a standard race or use a standard class, and still be happy about it?

Edit: I haven't asked him why, but he has made it clear that he finds a standard race boring.
AtmaWeapon
05-19-07, 10:44 PM Hmmm... I would just not include him in the campaign, but hes one of those people who everyone socially rejects anyway, so my conscientous (*sigh*) gets in the way and leads me to not ban him outright.

Outlier personality would be fine, as would just demanding that he use only the normal races, but I still can't seem to make him understand why even a +0 Level Adjustment doesn't mean it is a good playable character. Is there some way to get him to just use a standard race or use a standard class, and still be happy about it?

Edit: I haven't asked him why, but he has made it clear that he finds a standard race boring.

Hrm.

If LA+1 is alright, tiefling works. he can have all the non-mechanical quicks he wants, including goat legs, horns, hooves, extra fingers, fangs, a tail, whatever. Just tell him the needs to be able to function in society, and he's not getting a mechanical advantage from his oddities.
Kradlo
05-19-07, 10:50 PM The problem isn't that the player doesn't want to play by the standard rules; it's that he wants to play by his rules, not yours. You are the Game Master, you set the rules. He can ask for anything under the sun, but you are not obliged to give it to him.

I am reminded of an old adage: "I have grown old enough to be thankful that all my prayers were not answered." Giving your player whatever he wants usually leads to stagnation. You set the guidelines, and let him work from there.
Kouk
05-19-07, 11:11 PM Also, have you tried just letting him do something with a low or +0 LA, and see if that shuts him up? Sometimes you need to make compromises.
Secrets Untold
05-19-07, 11:23 PM A compromise of sorts can be reached by using the Abberant Feats from Lords of Madness. I currently have a HUMAN wizard with disproportionately large eyes, membraneous wings, gills, a tail, scales, and two tentacles from his waist. Who can fire lazers from his eyes. (As a note, thats Abberant Blood, Starspawn, Deepspawn, Waterspawn, Ocular Spell, and Bestial Hide.) And, did I mention, this is all published material...and the wizard's race is human?

All at 15th level with a bonus scribe scroll and 3 metameagic or item feats left. That should satisfy everyone's appitite for creepyness.

Also, Heroes of Horror has Disforming (?) feats that let you screw your characters appearance for creepy bonuses and Complete Arcane has Draconic feats for claws and fangs. Let him play a normal character and slap on oddities with feats like these.
Thomar_of_Uointer
05-19-07, 11:30 PM Edit: I haven't asked him why, but he has made it clear that he finds a standard race boring.

Then tell him he's a boring person. If a player cannot make a human character interesting, he's probably not that interesting of a player to start with (tell this to his face, this should be a challenge for him to come up with an interesting human character, not an insult) and therefore you have no reason to allow him to play in your game at all. If he goes ahead and turns out to be a great player, maybe let him play a monster next game.

You're the DM. You have every right to say "no" to players, it's your job, because it's not the place for any of the other players to do it.
zzo38
05-20-07, 01:08 AM Three arms? Get the Extended Psionics Handbook, play the thri-kreen race and cut off one of your arms. Then you will have three arms!
Draconian220
05-20-07, 10:18 AM Let him play it. Let him plat the 20 legged hippo man with butterfly wings. Then let him deal with the backlash. Let him get run out of towns while the rest of the party chills in the tavern. Let him get killed by palidins of LG gods and crazed mobs. Also, make it his job to get into the party, if they dont want to travel with the freaky monster, they dont have to.

In other words, let him get sick of writing up new characters every 5 min while you work with the rest of the group on the main adventure. And make it very VERY clear that you arent going to run a seperat campaign just for him.
Secrets Untold
05-20-07, 12:00 PM Draconian, that idea is great. Somewhat cruel, but isn't cruelty what makes great ideas great?

Another thing you could do is let him add all the templates he wants, but his LA prevents him from doing anything. 1 HD at 15th level really sucks. He might realize that your better off with LA 0 or maybe 1. (And no, LA -- doesn't count as LA 0)
Draconian220
05-20-07, 12:52 PM Well im a person who likes to play somewhat out of the norm charactrers, but i know this has to have limits. I might get away with playing a tifling with 2 small horns and a little tail but extra eyes, limbs, and huge fangs will get me killed. I cant expect to ever go into a town with a character like that.

So let him play what he chooses, but run a "inside city walls" plot line. while the rest of the group forges on, he will have character after character either locked out or killed at the gates. I know its a harsh tactic but ive seen it used before. after two or three sessions of sitting doing nothing but rolling character after character the player in question will make one of two choices:

1) you are a horrid DM and he dosent want to play in this game anymore.
2) hes sick of rolling weird characters, really wants to get into the party, and will now roll something from the PHB.

Edit:
Make sure your other players know in advance that you are doing this. That way they wont be offended you let him play something outlandish but they were forced ot stick to core rules.
zzo38
05-20-07, 01:18 PM If he doesn't want people at the gate killing him, write a sign like "I am coming to this town peacefully! OK?" and hope everyone there can read that sign.
Draconian220
05-20-07, 01:24 PM If he doesn't want people at the gate killing him, write a sign like "I am coming to this town peacefully! OK?" and hope everyone there can read that sign.

it dosnet matter what a sign says rofl. If a "creature straight out of the pits of hell" comes to the gates, people will lock him out or attack him.
armeniantwins
05-20-07, 02:35 PM Draconian, that is cruel, but I might have to try it.

And @Secrets_Untold, the problem is, he has those supplements. He has The Book of Vile Darkness, both Fiendish Codexes, Lords of Madness, Libris Mortis, and a PHB. Thats it. And he still, drawing material from all of those books, is not quite happy unless he applies his own, personal spin on it.

Also, he has a kind of creepy obsession with CE alignment, and the one time he tried to DM, our first level characters were plunged onto the Abyss. At first level. Wow. It didn't even connect with the plot.

If you ask me, though, the problem is that he thinks all of customization comes from Race and Class, and he hasn't D&Ded enough to effectively Roleplay, create a Background, customize equipment, etc.
Draconian220
05-21-07, 01:02 AM Page four of the BOVD:

"HIDE THIS BOOK!
BOVD is for DM's only. Just as you would keep the contents of a published adventure to yourself, restrict your players' access to this book as well. Dont let them know whats in store for their characters."

one of your problems is solved with that small paragraph :)

And yes, i know its cruel, but i know players hate it. I once had a guy have 3 characters die in my game. all within 10 min of introducing them. Now, in this case, all 3 deaths were legit (and really quite funny), just bad combat rolls flat out. He would be the first to tell you that the deaths themselves werent what sucked. It was spending all his time rolling up something new while the rest of the group kept going in the dungeon. (and I dont allow players to just rename quickly killed characters so they dont havr to roll new).

Something i noticed, is after the second character, the 3rd was much more simple, and the 4th (that didnt die in a heartbeat) was very simple and normal.
PwnageLlama
05-21-07, 01:33 AM The crazed mob thing sounds good, but don't just outright kill his character:

DM: Fine, you can play whatever.
Player: Yay!
DM: You are walking along, and you get hit by a meteor
Player: ****!
drasticale
05-21-07, 01:38 AM If he doesn't want people at the gate killing him, write a sign like "I am coming to this town peacefully! OK?" and hope everyone there can read that sign.

That way, his third arm is tied up carrying that sign... Problem solved. He can only use two arms.
Kaldric
05-21-07, 02:59 AM The guy sounds like a creep. Selfish, too. I'd say tell him that he must play with something from the rulebooks, because you're not interested in creating a new class/race for him, and as he is a player, not the DM, he doesn't get to do it himself. It's selfish of him to try to monopolize the time you could be spending creating an adventure to customize his personal little creepy chaotic evil avatar.

Oh, and if he smells bad, give up on him.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
armeniantwins 05-19-07, 09:26 PM	I have a problem. Being a DM, I have a player who cannot use the standard rules. For whatever reason, he has to have a completly new race, class, background, etc. He has wanted races that Fly, have 20+ feet, are incorporeal, or are morally obliged to destroy all other life. His classes have wanted even more drastic changes. He simply will not be anything at all standard, and even the monster races are not good enough for him, unless they are altered, and have CE undertones. He even tried to use a character from a Future Tech campaign in mine. (Which is standard advanced D&D.) This is extremly annoying, for both the players and me, and I was wondering what we could do to get him to realize the nearly limitless customization available within the Core races and classes. P.S.- I don't allow Monster races in my campaigns regardless.
AtmaWeapon 05-19-07, 09:27 PM	Say no. It sounds like he doesn't really want to play D&D, so if he can't pick a core race/class, let him walk. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but it needs to happen. There is a weath of options available, and he needs to understand it is fantasy, and not sci-fi.
Stormbright 05-19-07, 09:33 PM	perhaps point him in the direction of the Star Wars d20 game. There are more than enough alien races that should appeal to his sense of playing style. Otherwise, I'm inclined to agree with previous poster. Seems that he really doesn't want to play the same DND that most of us enjoy. My guess is he's only interested if he can be the center of attention, and as a result, he will most certainly doom your game.
Kouk 05-19-07, 09:48 PM	Outlier personality. He wants to be weird to dominate your and everyone else's time. DMGII suggests making silly things he can do that will let him blow of his crazy before the actual important stuff starts, but otherwise just tell him what the approved races are and that's the end. I think there is a feat or some kind of trait in the BoVD that gives you an extra arm though.
Max Octavious Xavier 05-19-07, 09:59 PM	Just say no. Have you asked him why?
celtredleg 05-19-07, 09:59 PM	PHB. Door. Let him pick one. Otherwise dont waste your and everyone elses time.
armeniantwins 05-19-07, 10:00 PM	Hmmm... I would just not include him in the campaign, but hes one of those people who everyone socially rejects anyway, so my conscientous (sigh) gets in the way and leads me to not ban him outright. Outlier personality would be fine, as would just demanding that he use only the normal races, but I still can't seem to make him understand why even a +0 Level Adjustment doesn't mean it is a good playable character. Is there some way to get him to just use a standard race or use a standard class, and still be happy about it? Edit: I haven't asked him why, but he has made it clear that he finds a standard race boring.
AtmaWeapon 05-19-07, 10:44 PM	Hmmm... I would just not include him in the campaign, but hes one of those people who everyone socially rejects anyway, so my conscientous (sigh) gets in the way and leads me to not ban him outright. Outlier personality would be fine, as would just demanding that he use only the normal races, but I still can't seem to make him understand why even a +0 Level Adjustment doesn't mean it is a good playable character. Is there some way to get him to just use a standard race or use a standard class, and still be happy about it? Edit: I haven't asked him why, but he has made it clear that he finds a standard race boring. Hrm. If LA+1 is alright, tiefling works. he can have all the non-mechanical quicks he wants, including goat legs, horns, hooves, extra fingers, fangs, a tail, whatever. Just tell him the needs to be able to function in society, and he's not getting a mechanical advantage from his oddities.
Kradlo 05-19-07, 10:50 PM	The problem isn't that the player doesn't want to play by the standard rules; it's that he wants to play by his rules, not yours. You are the Game Master, you set the rules. He can ask for anything under the sun, but you are not obliged to give it to him. I am reminded of an old adage: "I have grown old enough to be thankful that all my prayers were not answered." Giving your player whatever he wants usually leads to stagnation. You set the guidelines, and let him work from there.
Kouk 05-19-07, 11:11 PM	Also, have you tried just letting him do something with a low or +0 LA, and see if that shuts him up? Sometimes you need to make compromises.
Secrets Untold 05-19-07, 11:23 PM	A compromise of sorts can be reached by using the Abberant Feats from Lords of Madness. I currently have a HUMAN wizard with disproportionately large eyes, membraneous wings, gills, a tail, scales, and two tentacles from his waist. Who can fire lazers from his eyes. (As a note, thats Abberant Blood, Starspawn, Deepspawn, Waterspawn, Ocular Spell, and Bestial Hide.) And, did I mention, this is all published material...and the wizard's race is human? All at 15th level with a bonus scribe scroll and 3 metameagic or item feats left. That should satisfy everyone's appitite for creepyness. Also, Heroes of Horror has Disforming (?) feats that let you screw your characters appearance for creepy bonuses and Complete Arcane has Draconic feats for claws and fangs. Let him play a normal character and slap on oddities with feats like these.
Thomar_of_Uointer 05-19-07, 11:30 PM	Edit: I haven't asked him why, but he has made it clear that he finds a standard race boring. Then tell him he's a boring person. If a player cannot make a human character interesting, he's probably not that interesting of a player to start with (tell this to his face, this should be a challenge for him to come up with an interesting human character, not an insult) and therefore you have no reason to allow him to play in your game at all. If he goes ahead and turns out to be a great player, maybe let him play a monster next game. You're the DM. You have every right to say "no" to players, it's your job, because it's not the place for any of the other players to do it.
zzo38 05-20-07, 01:08 AM	Three arms? Get the Extended Psionics Handbook, play the thri-kreen race and cut off one of your arms. Then you will have three arms!
Draconian220 05-20-07, 10:18 AM	Let him play it. Let him plat the 20 legged hippo man with butterfly wings. Then let him deal with the backlash. Let him get run out of towns while the rest of the party chills in the tavern. Let him get killed by palidins of LG gods and crazed mobs. Also, make it his job to get into the party, if they dont want to travel with the freaky monster, they dont have to. In other words, let him get sick of writing up new characters every 5 min while you work with the rest of the group on the main adventure. And make it very VERY clear that you arent going to run a seperat campaign just for him.
Secrets Untold 05-20-07, 12:00 PM	Draconian, that idea is great. Somewhat cruel, but isn't cruelty what makes great ideas great? Another thing you could do is let him add all the templates he wants, but his LA prevents him from doing anything. 1 HD at 15th level really sucks. He might realize that your better off with LA 0 or maybe 1. (And no, LA -- doesn't count as LA 0)
Draconian220 05-20-07, 12:52 PM	Well im a person who likes to play somewhat out of the norm charactrers, but i know this has to have limits. I might get away with playing a tifling with 2 small horns and a little tail but extra eyes, limbs, and huge fangs will get me killed. I cant expect to ever go into a town with a character like that. So let him play what he chooses, but run a "inside city walls" plot line. while the rest of the group forges on, he will have character after character either locked out or killed at the gates. I know its a harsh tactic but ive seen it used before. after two or three sessions of sitting doing nothing but rolling character after character the player in question will make one of two choices: 1) you are a horrid DM and he dosent want to play in this game anymore. 2) hes sick of rolling weird characters, really wants to get into the party, and will now roll something from the PHB. Edit: Make sure your other players know in advance that you are doing this. That way they wont be offended you let him play something outlandish but they were forced ot stick to core rules.
zzo38 05-20-07, 01:18 PM	If he doesn't want people at the gate killing him, write a sign like "I am coming to this town peacefully! OK?" and hope everyone there can read that sign.
Draconian220 05-20-07, 01:24 PM	If he doesn't want people at the gate killing him, write a sign like "I am coming to this town peacefully! OK?" and hope everyone there can read that sign. it dosnet matter what a sign says rofl. If a "creature straight out of the pits of hell" comes to the gates, people will lock him out or attack him.
armeniantwins 05-20-07, 02:35 PM	Draconian, that is cruel, but I might have to try it. And @Secrets_Untold, the problem is, he has those supplements. He has The Book of Vile Darkness, both Fiendish Codexes, Lords of Madness, Libris Mortis, and a PHB. Thats it. And he still, drawing material from all of those books, is not quite happy unless he applies his own, personal spin on it. Also, he has a kind of creepy obsession with CE alignment, and the one time he tried to DM, our first level characters were plunged onto the Abyss. At first level. Wow. It didn't even connect with the plot. If you ask me, though, the problem is that he thinks all of customization comes from Race and Class, and he hasn't D&Ded enough to effectively Roleplay, create a Background, customize equipment, etc.
Draconian220 05-21-07, 01:02 AM	Page four of the BOVD: "HIDE THIS BOOK! BOVD is for DM's only. Just as you would keep the contents of a published adventure to yourself, restrict your players' access to this book as well. Dont let them know whats in store for their characters." one of your problems is solved with that small paragraph :) And yes, i know its cruel, but i know players hate it. I once had a guy have 3 characters die in my game. all within 10 min of introducing them. Now, in this case, all 3 deaths were legit (and really quite funny), just bad combat rolls flat out. He would be the first to tell you that the deaths themselves werent what sucked. It was spending all his time rolling up something new while the rest of the group kept going in the dungeon. (and I dont allow players to just rename quickly killed characters so they dont havr to roll new). Something i noticed, is after the second character, the 3rd was much more simple, and the 4th (that didnt die in a heartbeat) was very simple and normal.
PwnageLlama 05-21-07, 01:33 AM	The crazed mob thing sounds good, but don't just outright kill his character: DM: Fine, you can play whatever. Player: Yay! DM: You are walking along, and you get hit by a meteor Player: ****!
drasticale 05-21-07, 01:38 AM	If he doesn't want people at the gate killing him, write a sign like "I am coming to this town peacefully! OK?" and hope everyone there can read that sign. That way, his third arm is tied up carrying that sign... Problem solved. He can only use two arms.
Kaldric 05-21-07, 02:59 AM	The guy sounds like a creep. Selfish, too. I'd say tell him that he must play with something from the rulebooks, because you're not interested in creating a new class/race for him, and as he is a player, not the DM, he doesn't get to do it himself. It's selfish of him to try to monopolize the time you could be spending creating an adventure to customize his personal little creepy chaotic evil avatar. Oh, and if he smells bad, give up on him.