Can PCs make a clean treasure sweep? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can PCs make a clean treasure sweep? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BeauJest
09-05-07, 08:51 AM I'm contemplating how **** I want to be w/ regards to PCs looting all the treasure they come across. They have a type I bag of holding (250 lbs) but will come across nearly 10 sets of armor and a lot of magic weapons. I did a rough calculation, and they'll be about 400 lbs. over the bag's limit.

I know I'm in my right to enforce encumbrance penalties. But I'm curious how other DMs handle heavy treasure. I'm thinking of keeping track of armor, weapons, coins, and any especially heavy items. I think the game is about making decisions, so I feel some minor or non-magic items should sometimes be left behind- not part of the long sum of gp values they can sell at the next town.

How do you handle PCs w/ their loot?
High Octane
09-05-07, 08:57 AM I say enforce the penalties. Let the PCs have some fun figuring out how to make best use of their weight or figuring out how to get the stuff out.

Tensers floating disc should serve SOME purpose.

Don't get too mad with them grabbing everything in sight. Unless they shatter the wealth per level guidelines.

Also, sometimes it's a good idea to mention that armor is sometimes low quality, smelly, damaged, stained etc and that will lower it's value when it comes off of goblins and kobolds and such. Goblinoids, kobolds, and orcs are not known for their craftsmanship.
Rommel013
09-05-07, 08:59 AM For the most part we ignore pure cash, gp, sp, cp, pp, unless it's a particularly large horde. If it's just a few copper pieces or the 28 gold pieces they have left over from character creation, we don't really mind if they ignore that for weight. However they came across a sum of 40,000 gold pieces in 4 chests at one point and I made them calculate the total weight of the gold and the chests. As far as armor and weapons and other loot, we keep track of all of that.
High Octane
09-05-07, 11:21 AM For the most part we ignore pure cash, gp, sp, cp, pp, unless it's a particularly large horde. If it's just a few copper pieces or the 28 gold pieces they have left over from character creation, we don't really mind if they ignore that for weight. However they came across a sum of 40,000 gold pieces in 4 chests at one point and I made them calculate the total weight of the gold and the chests. As far as armor and weapons and other loot, we keep track of all of that.
I agree that calculating encumberance is not really worth it until you feel that you will actually reach anywhere close to the end of the load.

Edit: And by that I mean actually get close to the load of the bag of holding. Keeping track of loads is important for some other classes, such as rogues and monks who lose a lot of abilities when they are carrying a medium or greater load (abilities like evasion which are lifesavers.)
Nytmare
09-05-07, 11:29 AM My group tossed normal encumbrance out the window in exchange for a really abstract slot system. You can carry your strength in objects, and you basically have an expanded head, hands, shoulders, etc. slot system with various bags gving you extra additional slots.

It doesn't make sense if you go through and argue actual weights out. Of course in reality 3 bags of gold don't weigh the same as 3 pieces of gold, but overall it's a pretty clean fit. The book keeping is easy enough to do on the fly and you don't have to wait till things get out of hand and then pull out the books and a calculator to see how encumbered you are.

Overall I think it manages to capture the "fun" aspects of encumbrance resource management without the headaches.
DrMorganes
09-05-07, 12:14 PM I've always been a stickler over PC encumbrance, mostly because players tend to go Nodwick (http://www.nodwick.com) when it comes to loot if given half a chance. I don't mind the concept of heroes able to do things normal folks cannot, but there isn't much heroism in stripping a tomb of everything and selling it all as soon as possible.

Let's be clear: I don't have a problem with PCs stripping tombs and selling loot. Like everyone else, however, they need to understand the logistics involved in such activities. If they want to carry EVERYTHING they find that's even remotely salable, fine. They'll move like snails. Wealth guidelines are still enforced. Players tending to carry everything - including the kitchen sink - should eventually find themselves having to choose between their loot and their lives: straps break and loot falls into the rapidly-closing trap; the PCs are pursued by overwhelmingly powerful foes and are slowed to the point of immobility by their loot; bandits harry them as they travel home.

My favorite? I had a group once that truly took "whatever is not nailed down is mine, whatever I can pry up is not nailed down" to heart. I mean they took everything. ALL THE TIME. During one adventure they literally stripped the tapestries (woolen, not silk) off the walls and loaded up the furniture. Having had enough, I let them. They appropriated wagons and horses and brought a small caravan back to the nearest city. You should have seen the look on one group's faces when their PCs were met at the city gate by a tax collector and a contingent of the Watch. :evillaugh

Half of their loot - which was far in excess of what even the greediest party would consider acceptable - went to taxes, mercantile licenses, guild fees, and protection money from the local thieves' guild. They got the hint, but it took a while for their characters to work through the plot hooks that followed.
Some_call_me_Tim
09-05-07, 12:21 PM If your players feel they are poor it would be nigh impossible to keep them from taking everything not nailed down (and then coming back with a crowbar to get the rest). Even if you enforce the encumbrance rules, some players will want to bring hirelings to carry the booty back home as well. Which should make encumbrance meaningless. In other words, where there is a will, there is a way.

So, what do I do? I generally allow them to collect 1/2 gold for reselling mundane equipment. I just monitor how much they get to keep their wealth reasonable for their level. If they don't bother collecting all the scrap metal, then I boost the amount of coin; of course, if their campsite begins to look like Sanford and Son's front yard, the amount of coin drops accordingly.

As for anything magic, I definitely expect them to take it and watch closely how many magic items they can take from defeated NPCs. I mean those items are worth thousands of gold pieces, I would expect that they would take, bury, hide, haul back to camp, or whatever to keep that amount of wealth. It is one problem with a world of ubiquitous magic items, that the amount of wealth canrried by one person is substantial.
shadzar
09-05-07, 12:36 PM never ignore the weight of anything even coinage. things take up space and have weight both. getting them from point a to point b is part of adventuring. something the players must figure out how to do.
Starcloud
09-05-07, 12:46 PM Indeed, one of the best ways to control PC wealth is to track encumberance.

Sure, they kill the dragon and get the hoard, but if they can't move the hoard back to civilization, they'll need to leave some of it behind.

I've been in campaigns where we killed a dragon and then had to leave all the coinage except for the platinum behind *even though* we had several extradimensional storage devices. And when we came back, surprise surprise, most of what remained had been taken by the survivors from the dragon's minions (goblins mostly, some hobgoblins, a fire giant.)

So you absolutely track encumberance and weight, even coinage. 50 coins to the pound.
Khadmus
09-05-07, 01:11 PM Solution: Set up camp at the loot site. 1 person at a time goes back and forth, slowly liquidating the whole hoard.
heffroncm
09-05-07, 01:12 PM Solution: Set up camp at the loot site. 1 person at a time goes back and forth, slowly liquidating the whole hoard.

If you happen upon a treasure hoard in what would otherwise be completely civilized land with no chance of, say, a wandering monster attacking...
Vaelan
09-05-07, 04:40 PM Who goes dragon slaying without wagons?

If you happen upon a treasure hoard in what would otherwise be completely civilized land with no chance of, say, a wandering monster attacking...
It might take a while to get the entire hoard out, but if the party's Rogue/sneaky type can't out-sneak a random encounter when unencumbered, you really need to examine your DMing.

Also, by the time you have a dragon hoard that will actually encumber the entire party, you should have access to Teleport. I suppose you could, in theory, kill a CR 8 dragon and end up with 480,000 copper pieces, but that is rather unlikely.
Phrennzy
09-05-07, 06:22 PM The only time I even worry about it is if it is a large amount of coins, a large item (statue or something) or a bulky item.

Otherwise it's just a big old yawn.
Khadmus
09-05-07, 06:59 PM If you happen upon a treasure hoard in what would otherwise be completely civilized land with no chance of, say, a wandering monster attacking...

"Set up camp" involves fortifications, alarm spells, etc. That should more than make up for the 1 party member that is missing.
Scottevil912
09-05-07, 09:27 PM I track every coin the players pick up - of course it's a lot easier when you have a laptop in front of you with excell loaded up and you just pop in weights and it tells you when they reach medium or heavy enc.

Prior to technology we let most of it slide - especially at the end of the adventure.
heffroncm
09-05-07, 10:38 PM "Set up camp" involves fortifications, alarm spells, etc. That should more than make up for the 1 party member that is missing.

I was more of referring to the one party member happening upon a band of hungry ogres.
Starcloud
09-06-07, 01:24 AM And there's also the whole bit about wagons being obvious... 3e dragons are far more active than 1e dragons.

One common tactic suggested for 1st edition dragons was the use of spells such as "charm person" to set up a small spy network in nearby villages. When some adventurers come around and buy up three or four wagons, the dragon's spy network passes on the news and the dragon knows to expect company.

Plus, wagons don't travel well in swamps or deserts or forests off of the beaten track... carts are better but don't haul as much. In the mountains, you might as well forget about hauling the cart or wagon around to the lair.
Vaelan
09-06-07, 02:11 AM Yeah, you would probably have to lug the treasure a ways before depositing it in the wagon.

Still beats leaving it there.
heffroncm
09-06-07, 02:17 AM And there's also the whole bit about wagons being obvious... 3e dragons are far more active than 1e dragons.

One common tactic suggested for 1st edition dragons was the use of spells such as "charm person" to set up a small spy network in nearby villages. When some adventurers come around and buy up three or four wagons, the dragon's spy network passes on the news and the dragon knows to expect company.

Plus, wagons don't travel well in swamps or deserts or forests off of the beaten track... carts are better but don't haul as much. In the mountains, you might as well forget about hauling the cart or wagon around to the lair.

By the time the party is facing bigger dragons, they'll have plenty of options for transporting large amounts of treasure. Bags of Holding, Teleports, multiple Tenser's Floating Disks, Unseen Servants, and simply ridiculous Strength scores all play into it.

I assume this thread is mainly directed at lower levels, between 1st and 6th, when transporting large amounts of material is difficult to impossible.
shadzar
09-06-07, 08:26 AM And there's also the whole bit about wagons being obvious... 3e dragons are far more active than 1e dragons.

why? just because the book says dragons do such and such in 3.x?

that is all based on individual DMs and not one edition or the other.
Khadmus
09-06-07, 03:39 PM I was more of referring to the one party member happening upon a band of hungry ogres.

The flaw indeed.
Bozwevial
09-06-07, 04:16 PM I stick by my theory that Tenser's Floating Disk was developed to carry the beer to parties.

Try Otiluke's Telekinetic Sphere. You can carry about 5000 pounds worth of treasure (counting yourself) in the sphere, which lasts one minute per level, long enough to get it to safety, and you can get in the sphere too, floating to town/your camp while lying on a bed of coins inside a giant bubble. Nothing can harm you in the bubble, and if you are distracted for some reason, you only fall at 60 feet per round, which is too slow to cause falling damage. The only problem is the small diameter.
Starcloud
09-06-07, 11:22 PM why? just because the book says dragons do such and such in 3.x?

that is all based on individual DMs and not one edition or the other.

Well, it's more due to the fact that 1st edition had an explicit "% chance to be in lair" and an explicit "% chance to be asleep".

3rd edition has neither.
Hack and Smasher
09-07-07, 08:30 AM My PC often buy a ox and cart at level 1, they'll steal anything during the low levels and afterwards tend use shrink item on wooden crates filled with treasure (which they bring in parts in a bag of holding and assemble in dungeon). I hate my pcs sometimes.
Drag0nUL
09-07-07, 11:45 AM I was more of referring to the one party member happening upon a band of hungry ogres.

If that guy can't singlehandedly defeat or trick a band of ogres then it means he is too weak to be in my party.:D Seriously if you want to try such a thing better send the cleric/druid with the loot. If they can't handle it probably neither can the rest of the party.

To be honest in the games I play we rarely keep track of encumberance. We rather use common sense and resort to numbers only when we stumble upon something well out of our league (like a dragon's hoard or a lot of heavy stuff like armor).

Still I have rarely seen a 'looting spree' in my gaming group. So far I can recall of only one instance of stripping a place clean. It was mostly the work of 2 players: me (dwarf fighter/wizard with maxed out knowledge: architecture and engineering and decent craft:stoneworking ranks) and a kobold warlock (with flee the scene ). We slowly carried the entire dungeon out; stone by stone.
Eater_Of_Souls
09-07-07, 12:32 PM Speaking on encumberance my group once found a treasure made of entirely from copper coins ...
Not only was the chest on top if some incredible trap / puzzle system but it was also only worth maybe a 10 000gp all together, but in our greed we hauled the whole thing back to civilization and what wasn't carried was hidden in a secret place.
Later my character was the only one left from the original group so he had a huge amount of cash in a place where it was allmost impossible to haul it back all by your self.

But I still think that the best part was the now closed and empty chest that we left back where it was with the trap/puzzle fully functional again to waiting for the next line of adventurers... :P
shadzar
09-07-07, 01:50 PM Well, it's more due to the fact that 1st edition had an explicit "% chance to be in lair" and an explicit "% chance to be asleep".

3rd edition has neither.

ok so yes, just because a book says so.

or maybe because the powergaming made dragons come out more often. lower level encounters didn't offer as much challenge with 3.5 with all the over inflated magic abundance and such.

even a sleeping dragon was an easy steal.

and if a dragon is NOT in its lair it means it is probably very active doing something. you may get in and load up all the treasure without having to fce it but then what happens halfway down the mountain as the dragon returns and sees its belongings being carted off?
True Archon
09-07-07, 07:16 PM I utilize encumbrance in my game no matter what. However, so long as my players deal with it intelligently, I'm rarely gonna pull out the calculator. Common methods of transport are usually: magic, mules, and well paid laborers. Of course, time is always a factor, but usually I try not to constantly put a time table on the party.

Encumbrance always becomes a factor for when movement is an issue, or special abilities (i.e. evasion).

On the rare opportunity that I get to play a character, I usually try to convert most of my wealth to gems at the first available opportunity (if I don't have any expensive purchases to be made). Of course, I still maintain a bag of miscellaneous coins, for smaller purchases (and to avoid potential thieves attracted to shiny platinum or gold). Mules are also usually a consistent purchase.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BeauJest 09-05-07, 08:51 AM	I'm contemplating how **** I want to be w/ regards to PCs looting all the treasure they come across. They have a type I bag of holding (250 lbs) but will come across nearly 10 sets of armor and a lot of magic weapons. I did a rough calculation, and they'll be about 400 lbs. over the bag's limit. I know I'm in my right to enforce encumbrance penalties. But I'm curious how other DMs handle heavy treasure. I'm thinking of keeping track of armor, weapons, coins, and any especially heavy items. I think the game is about making decisions, so I feel some minor or non-magic items should sometimes be left behind- not part of the long sum of gp values they can sell at the next town. How do you handle PCs w/ their loot?
High Octane 09-05-07, 08:57 AM	I say enforce the penalties. Let the PCs have some fun figuring out how to make best use of their weight or figuring out how to get the stuff out. Tensers floating disc should serve SOME purpose. Don't get too mad with them grabbing everything in sight. Unless they shatter the wealth per level guidelines. Also, sometimes it's a good idea to mention that armor is sometimes low quality, smelly, damaged, stained etc and that will lower it's value when it comes off of goblins and kobolds and such. Goblinoids, kobolds, and orcs are not known for their craftsmanship.
Rommel013 09-05-07, 08:59 AM	For the most part we ignore pure cash, gp, sp, cp, pp, unless it's a particularly large horde. If it's just a few copper pieces or the 28 gold pieces they have left over from character creation, we don't really mind if they ignore that for weight. However they came across a sum of 40,000 gold pieces in 4 chests at one point and I made them calculate the total weight of the gold and the chests. As far as armor and weapons and other loot, we keep track of all of that.
High Octane 09-05-07, 11:21 AM	For the most part we ignore pure cash, gp, sp, cp, pp, unless it's a particularly large horde. If it's just a few copper pieces or the 28 gold pieces they have left over from character creation, we don't really mind if they ignore that for weight. However they came across a sum of 40,000 gold pieces in 4 chests at one point and I made them calculate the total weight of the gold and the chests. As far as armor and weapons and other loot, we keep track of all of that. I agree that calculating encumberance is not really worth it until you feel that you will actually reach anywhere close to the end of the load. Edit: And by that I mean actually get close to the load of the bag of holding. Keeping track of loads is important for some other classes, such as rogues and monks who lose a lot of abilities when they are carrying a medium or greater load (abilities like evasion which are lifesavers.)
Nytmare 09-05-07, 11:29 AM	My group tossed normal encumbrance out the window in exchange for a really abstract slot system. You can carry your strength in objects, and you basically have an expanded head, hands, shoulders, etc. slot system with various bags gving you extra additional slots. It doesn't make sense if you go through and argue actual weights out. Of course in reality 3 bags of gold don't weigh the same as 3 pieces of gold, but overall it's a pretty clean fit. The book keeping is easy enough to do on the fly and you don't have to wait till things get out of hand and then pull out the books and a calculator to see how encumbered you are. Overall I think it manages to capture the "fun" aspects of encumbrance resource management without the headaches.
DrMorganes 09-05-07, 12:14 PM	I've always been a stickler over PC encumbrance, mostly because players tend to go Nodwick (http://www.nodwick.com) when it comes to loot if given half a chance. I don't mind the concept of heroes able to do things normal folks cannot, but there isn't much heroism in stripping a tomb of everything and selling it all as soon as possible. Let's be clear: I don't have a problem with PCs stripping tombs and selling loot. Like everyone else, however, they need to understand the logistics involved in such activities. If they want to carry EVERYTHING they find that's even remotely salable, fine. They'll move like snails. Wealth guidelines are still enforced. Players tending to carry everything - including the kitchen sink - should eventually find themselves having to choose between their loot and their lives: straps break and loot falls into the rapidly-closing trap; the PCs are pursued by overwhelmingly powerful foes and are slowed to the point of immobility by their loot; bandits harry them as they travel home. My favorite? I had a group once that truly took "whatever is not nailed down is mine, whatever I can pry up is not nailed down" to heart. I mean they took everything. ALL THE TIME. During one adventure they literally stripped the tapestries (woolen, not silk) off the walls and loaded up the furniture. Having had enough, I let them. They appropriated wagons and horses and brought a small caravan back to the nearest city. You should have seen the look on one group's faces when their PCs were met at the city gate by a tax collector and a contingent of the Watch. :evillaugh Half of their loot - which was far in excess of what even the greediest party would consider acceptable - went to taxes, mercantile licenses, guild fees, and protection money from the local thieves' guild. They got the hint, but it took a while for their characters to work through the plot hooks that followed.
Some_call_me_Tim 09-05-07, 12:21 PM	If your players feel they are poor it would be nigh impossible to keep them from taking everything not nailed down (and then coming back with a crowbar to get the rest). Even if you enforce the encumbrance rules, some players will want to bring hirelings to carry the booty back home as well. Which should make encumbrance meaningless. In other words, where there is a will, there is a way. So, what do I do? I generally allow them to collect 1/2 gold for reselling mundane equipment. I just monitor how much they get to keep their wealth reasonable for their level. If they don't bother collecting all the scrap metal, then I boost the amount of coin; of course, if their campsite begins to look like Sanford and Son's front yard, the amount of coin drops accordingly. As for anything magic, I definitely expect them to take it and watch closely how many magic items they can take from defeated NPCs. I mean those items are worth thousands of gold pieces, I would expect that they would take, bury, hide, haul back to camp, or whatever to keep that amount of wealth. It is one problem with a world of ubiquitous magic items, that the amount of wealth canrried by one person is substantial.
shadzar 09-05-07, 12:36 PM	never ignore the weight of anything even coinage. things take up space and have weight both. getting them from point a to point b is part of adventuring. something the players must figure out how to do.
Starcloud 09-05-07, 12:46 PM	Indeed, one of the best ways to control PC wealth is to track encumberance. Sure, they kill the dragon and get the hoard, but if they can't move the hoard back to civilization, they'll need to leave some of it behind. I've been in campaigns where we killed a dragon and then had to leave all the coinage except for the platinum behind even though we had several extradimensional storage devices. And when we came back, surprise surprise, most of what remained had been taken by the survivors from the dragon's minions (goblins mostly, some hobgoblins, a fire giant.) So you absolutely track encumberance and weight, even coinage. 50 coins to the pound.
Khadmus 09-05-07, 01:11 PM	Solution: Set up camp at the loot site. 1 person at a time goes back and forth, slowly liquidating the whole hoard.
heffroncm 09-05-07, 01:12 PM	Solution: Set up camp at the loot site. 1 person at a time goes back and forth, slowly liquidating the whole hoard. If you happen upon a treasure hoard in what would otherwise be completely civilized land with no chance of, say, a wandering monster attacking...
Vaelan 09-05-07, 04:40 PM	Who goes dragon slaying without wagons? If you happen upon a treasure hoard in what would otherwise be completely civilized land with no chance of, say, a wandering monster attacking... It might take a while to get the entire hoard out, but if the party's Rogue/sneaky type can't out-sneak a random encounter when unencumbered, you really need to examine your DMing. Also, by the time you have a dragon hoard that will actually encumber the entire party, you should have access to Teleport. I suppose you could, in theory, kill a CR 8 dragon and end up with 480,000 copper pieces, but that is rather unlikely.
Phrennzy 09-05-07, 06:22 PM	The only time I even worry about it is if it is a large amount of coins, a large item (statue or something) or a bulky item. Otherwise it's just a big old yawn.
Khadmus 09-05-07, 06:59 PM	If you happen upon a treasure hoard in what would otherwise be completely civilized land with no chance of, say, a wandering monster attacking... "Set up camp" involves fortifications, alarm spells, etc. That should more than make up for the 1 party member that is missing.
Scottevil912 09-05-07, 09:27 PM	I track every coin the players pick up - of course it's a lot easier when you have a laptop in front of you with excell loaded up and you just pop in weights and it tells you when they reach medium or heavy enc. Prior to technology we let most of it slide - especially at the end of the adventure.
heffroncm 09-05-07, 10:38 PM	"Set up camp" involves fortifications, alarm spells, etc. That should more than make up for the 1 party member that is missing. I was more of referring to the one party member happening upon a band of hungry ogres.
Starcloud 09-06-07, 01:24 AM	And there's also the whole bit about wagons being obvious... 3e dragons are far more active than 1e dragons. One common tactic suggested for 1st edition dragons was the use of spells such as "charm person" to set up a small spy network in nearby villages. When some adventurers come around and buy up three or four wagons, the dragon's spy network passes on the news and the dragon knows to expect company. Plus, wagons don't travel well in swamps or deserts or forests off of the beaten track... carts are better but don't haul as much. In the mountains, you might as well forget about hauling the cart or wagon around to the lair.
Vaelan 09-06-07, 02:11 AM	Yeah, you would probably have to lug the treasure a ways before depositing it in the wagon. Still beats leaving it there.
heffroncm 09-06-07, 02:17 AM	And there's also the whole bit about wagons being obvious... 3e dragons are far more active than 1e dragons. One common tactic suggested for 1st edition dragons was the use of spells such as "charm person" to set up a small spy network in nearby villages. When some adventurers come around and buy up three or four wagons, the dragon's spy network passes on the news and the dragon knows to expect company. Plus, wagons don't travel well in swamps or deserts or forests off of the beaten track... carts are better but don't haul as much. In the mountains, you might as well forget about hauling the cart or wagon around to the lair. By the time the party is facing bigger dragons, they'll have plenty of options for transporting large amounts of treasure. Bags of Holding, Teleports, multiple Tenser's Floating Disks, Unseen Servants, and simply ridiculous Strength scores all play into it. I assume this thread is mainly directed at lower levels, between 1st and 6th, when transporting large amounts of material is difficult to impossible.
shadzar 09-06-07, 08:26 AM	And there's also the whole bit about wagons being obvious... 3e dragons are far more active than 1e dragons. why? just because the book says dragons do such and such in 3.x? that is all based on individual DMs and not one edition or the other.
Khadmus 09-06-07, 03:39 PM	I was more of referring to the one party member happening upon a band of hungry ogres. The flaw indeed.
Bozwevial 09-06-07, 04:16 PM	I stick by my theory that Tenser's Floating Disk was developed to carry the beer to parties. Try Otiluke's Telekinetic Sphere. You can carry about 5000 pounds worth of treasure (counting yourself) in the sphere, which lasts one minute per level, long enough to get it to safety, and you can get in the sphere too, floating to town/your camp while lying on a bed of coins inside a giant bubble. Nothing can harm you in the bubble, and if you are distracted for some reason, you only fall at 60 feet per round, which is too slow to cause falling damage. The only problem is the small diameter.
Starcloud 09-06-07, 11:22 PM	why? just because the book says dragons do such and such in 3.x? that is all based on individual DMs and not one edition or the other. Well, it's more due to the fact that 1st edition had an explicit "% chance to be in lair" and an explicit "% chance to be asleep". 3rd edition has neither.
Hack and Smasher 09-07-07, 08:30 AM	My PC often buy a ox and cart at level 1, they'll steal anything during the low levels and afterwards tend use shrink item on wooden crates filled with treasure (which they bring in parts in a bag of holding and assemble in dungeon). I hate my pcs sometimes.
Drag0nUL 09-07-07, 11:45 AM	I was more of referring to the one party member happening upon a band of hungry ogres. If that guy can't singlehandedly defeat or trick a band of ogres then it means he is too weak to be in my party.:D Seriously if you want to try such a thing better send the cleric/druid with the loot. If they can't handle it probably neither can the rest of the party. To be honest in the games I play we rarely keep track of encumberance. We rather use common sense and resort to numbers only when we stumble upon something well out of our league (like a dragon's hoard or a lot of heavy stuff like armor). Still I have rarely seen a 'looting spree' in my gaming group. So far I can recall of only one instance of stripping a place clean. It was mostly the work of 2 players: me (dwarf fighter/wizard with maxed out knowledge: architecture and engineering and decent craft:stoneworking ranks) and a kobold warlock (with flee the scene ). We slowly carried the entire dungeon out; stone by stone.
Eater_Of_Souls 09-07-07, 12:32 PM	Speaking on encumberance my group once found a treasure made of entirely from copper coins ... Not only was the chest on top if some incredible trap / puzzle system but it was also only worth maybe a 10 000gp all together, but in our greed we hauled the whole thing back to civilization and what wasn't carried was hidden in a secret place. Later my character was the only one left from the original group so he had a huge amount of cash in a place where it was allmost impossible to haul it back all by your self. But I still think that the best part was the now closed and empty chest that we left back where it was with the trap/puzzle fully functional again to waiting for the next line of adventurers... :P
shadzar 09-07-07, 01:50 PM	Well, it's more due to the fact that 1st edition had an explicit "% chance to be in lair" and an explicit "% chance to be asleep". 3rd edition has neither. ok so yes, just because a book says so. or maybe because the powergaming made dragons come out more often. lower level encounters didn't offer as much challenge with 3.5 with all the over inflated magic abundance and such. even a sleeping dragon was an easy steal. and if a dragon is NOT in its lair it means it is probably very active doing something. you may get in and load up all the treasure without having to fce it but then what happens halfway down the mountain as the dragon returns and sees its belongings being carted off?
True Archon 09-07-07, 07:16 PM	I utilize encumbrance in my game no matter what. However, so long as my players deal with it intelligently, I'm rarely gonna pull out the calculator. Common methods of transport are usually: magic, mules, and well paid laborers. Of course, time is always a factor, but usually I try not to constantly put a time table on the party. Encumbrance always becomes a factor for when movement is an issue, or special abilities (i.e. evasion). On the rare opportunity that I get to play a character, I usually try to convert most of my wealth to gems at the first available opportunity (if I don't have any expensive purchases to be made). Of course, I still maintain a bag of miscellaneous coins, for smaller purchases (and to avoid potential thieves attracted to shiny platinum or gold). Mules are also usually a consistent purchase.