Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Unluckylukey 08-19-07, 11:55 AM	How does talking work? Can characters talk in their round? is it a free action? If so how much can they say? if not what about one word? Or do DMs let characters discuss things out of character such as tactics and orders? I have my own ideas but I want to hear other peoples.
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-19-07, 11:58 AM	Mundane talking is a free action that can generally be taken out of turn. Limiting it slightly might be appropriate, after all a round is only 6 seconds long, but cutting it down to 1 word per round is way too harsh. Not only will it castrate the characters' ability to cooperate tactically, it'll generally lead to more boredom while folks are doing their rolling and such.
Madsamurai 08-19-07, 12:14 PM	In reguard to tactics, you can immagine that each character, being a skilled adventurer who survived for however many levels has a better understanding of tactics than the player. Accepting this, you can allow the players to discuss tactics that their characters would instinctively know.
Vanraya 08-19-07, 12:16 PM	If you really want to restrict out of game talking while in combat and want to be in the spirit of the rules- -Get out a stop watch, your cell phone might have one -shout "Talk!" -give them 6 seconds. Just do that each round as needed.
heffroncm 08-19-07, 12:19 PM	Simple solution: Have the party invest in a Permanent Rary's Telepathic Bond. For a standard party of 4 Adventurers, this recquires 3 castings, at the cost of 7,500 XP, or 40,200 gp if they pay someone to do it.
Unluckylukey 08-19-07, 12:27 PM	In reguard to tactics, you can immagine that each character, being a skilled adventurer who survived for however many levels has a better understanding of tactics than the player. Accepting this, you can allow the players to discuss tactics that their characters would instinctively know. Ahhh, you make a good point, however this is valid if it was basic fighting. however if the party is ambushed the pcs can not sit down and plan out their retaliation to the final detail. They would be defeat the point of the surprise attack. Players should think on their feet or better yet work out set plays for different situations
Drizztrocks 08-19-07, 12:27 PM	i dont know what you think, but i always let my pcs talk, as long as it is about the fight. i dont even use it as an action.
Alric 08-19-07, 12:31 PM	Its really a DM call. If you think they are talking way to much they probably are. You wouldn't be out of line to tell them to hurry it up a little.
Ryzak 08-19-07, 12:39 PM	During combat, I say yes, but with limitations. Players may talk during their turn. Usually it involves one question or one sentence, maybe two if they are short. If it involves a question, I let the directee of the question answer it, and then they are limited in their talking during their turn even further. I like keeping things as real as possible, but you have to let them talk. What I don't allow are advanced tactical strategies during the fight. It's hard not to meta-game this part as everyone has a birds-eye view, but if you get down to game level, it's not that simple. As long as you are up front with what you want, and then let the players haggle a little bit, you can come up with a compromise that works for both of you. But, you also have to make sure you're not meta-gaming your group of monsters (general term) either. If you have 6 drow against their 4 PC's, you have to remember that the same rules apply to you. It's tougher, because you will sound silly talking to yourself :P, but you have to keep things fair for everyone!
Drag0nUL 08-19-07, 01:04 PM	Me and my friends with whom I game have agreed upon a set of simple rules about talking in combat: 1. You can only talk when it is your turn and then you should try to limit yourself to a few sentences (haven't set an amount, but the DM has the right to say 'enough' at any point). 2. Unless specifically stated otherwise, all talking is assumed to be verbal communication in common. In other words whatever you say, the enemies can hear you and, if they understand, act accordingly.
Unluckylukey 08-19-07, 01:06 PM	Me and my friends with whom I game have agreed upon a set of simple rules about talking in combat: 1. You can only talk when it is your turn and then you should try to limit yourself to a few sentences (haven't set an amount, but the DM has the right to say 'enough' at any point). 2. Unless specifically stated otherwise, all talking is assumed to be verbal communication in common. In other words whatever you say, the enemies can hear you and, if they understand, act accordingly. We are on the same page
Eater_Of_Souls 08-19-07, 01:18 PM	I never limit my players from talking in combat if they talk too much or get carried away I just tell them to get on with the fight and secretly "shave off" a few HPs from monsters to speed up the combat. ;)
Tedronai 08-19-07, 01:26 PM	As described in RAW (PHB), talking is a non-action available to all regardless of who's turn it is, but with a possible limit on the amount of information that can be conveyed in any given round by any given individual. In other words, if they want to use their speech quota on another person's turn, they are free to do so, but will have less (or none) to use on their own turn. One to three sentences per person per round depending on length would generally be reasonable in my experience, barring a particularly large group (if they're all trying to talk to the each other or to the same person, well, they might only be able to hear one or two others if that) or particularly verbose characters (in which case they might not get to finish even one sentence).
Malraux 08-19-07, 02:58 PM	The other thing to consider is that not only are the characters skilled adventures who should instinctively know certain tactical options, they also spend a lot of time together. While out of game the party might decide to start resting at noon because the cleric is out of healing and then jump to the next morning, the characters are gonna have to talk about something during those times. So stuff like knowing when the wizard will whip out fireball should be reasonably well know by the party.
Sinis 08-19-07, 03:02 PM	I let PCs talk between themselves in a fight. It makes it fair, considering the monsters share the same brain.
trapspringer 08-19-07, 03:47 PM	Ideally you should dumb down monsters appropriately, but I agree in principle. ****, it's a game, man. Let the players have a little fun. The most rewarding part of d20 combat is pulling of a neat tactical maneuver. It's one of the key redeeming factors of what would otherwise be an unnecessarily complicated game engine.
NASCAR_1080i 08-19-07, 10:27 PM	I never limit my players from talking in combat if they talk too much or get carried away I just tell them to get on with the fight and secretly "shave off" a few HPs from monsters to speed up the combat. ;) how do i join that campaign wordiness = easy fights seriously that may not be a good idea at all:twocents:
Magrus 08-19-07, 11:51 PM	Yes. It's a DM call, but it's boring if the players just roll and state what they do. Chatting about combat is one of the best ways to control how a group bonds. If it goes well, they pull together, if things go bad, they split apart. It's part of the role playing experience. Try to think what you would do if you were in a near death situation and your friends were nearby. You wouldn't stand there, and give a poem or a speech. You would shout a quick phrase to give warning or a suggestion before dodging or taking a swing however. That's realistic, and I'd stick with that. That being said, if the challenge is minor it isn't unreasonable for a few players to hold a chat session while dispatching their foes. Similar to how folks would chat while playing a video game together. They've got the muscle memory to pound out the keys they need automatically and can still chat. The same with the player/characters, 5th level characters can give a good beating to some standard goblins with no class levels on them. They don't need to fully focus to do it, so having them joke and chat while doing so adds to the fun for them. Let them have at it.
Pegasos989 08-20-07, 01:27 AM	I allow it. I don't want to spend 10 minutes every time my wizard prepares spells to tell others what I have prepared. However, in game they walk together for hours and the fighter would very likely know that if he stays near my wizard for a round or two, he'll be hasted and enlarged. Remember, you have played with the others some time but they have travelled together for weeks, months, years... Also, a lot of the time characters have higher mental stats than you do. Being able to talk OOC with other players compensates for that.
Eater_Of_Souls 08-20-07, 03:58 AM	how do i join that campaign wordiness = easy fights seriously that may not be a good idea at all:twocents: You just missed the point in that idea by a mile ... :rolleyes:
shadzar 08-20-07, 04:13 AM	i wonder how these talking actions and out of character talking will affect or be put to use in the game table?
High Octane 08-20-07, 04:52 AM	Free Action. 6 seconds. You can spout a command or a warning, but you can't go all Vaarsuvius (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0010.html) on them.
Drag0nUL 08-20-07, 06:33 AM	i wonder how these talking actions and out of character talking will affect or be put to use in the game table? It is quite simple actually. One of the best 'weapons' of a surprise attack is the confusion it creates. You attack an unprepared enemy and force him to react to threats he hasn't taken into account before and hasn't got a coherent plan to combat them. Let's say that, as a DM you plan an ambush for the PC's. Allowing them half an hour to analyze the situation and discuss the best way out cancels the whole point of the ambush.
Unluckylukey 08-20-07, 06:39 AM	It is quite simple actually. One of the best 'weapons' of a surprise attack is the confusion it creates. You attack an unprepared enemy and force him to react to threats he hasn't taken into account before and hasn't got a coherent plan to combat them. Let's say that, as a DM you plan an ambush for the PC's. Allowing them half an hour to analyze the situation and discuss the best way out cancels the whole point of the ambush. So you are saying limited talking?
Drag0nUL 08-20-07, 08:31 AM	So you are saying limited talking? Yes. I support limiting talking in combat. But no matter what way you choose make sure both you and your players agree and that it is fun for everyone.
Shadowhowler 08-20-07, 09:14 AM	I had this disscussion with the players of my last gaming group... just before I quit. :( I allow a small amount of in character talking durring combat, a sentence or two per character... anything you think you could reasonably acomplish in a 6 second time span. As for OOC talking... it depends. Combats can sometimes go on for awhile... if players are just chating it up, talking about how bad a$$ they think this monster is, or how they think that Ranger is going to hand their fighter his a$$ on a plate with ketchup, thats cool. Just banter between players. However, if they are OOC trying to devise a stratagy that they wish to use *IN* character, I will rein them in. I'm NOT a big fan of that sort of metagaming. And yes... I've heard all the 'but they are seasoned adventures, they would have worked these battle plans out a hundred times before' arguments a million times, and I'm not buying it. If the party actualy does work out stratiges like that ahead of time... I want to at least hear it once in awhile in game, in character. IE: when the party is sitting around a campfire after a day of travle, I want to hear them IC talking about that fight they had with the Orc Briggands a few days ago... and how they might have handled it differantly, and how they plan to handle it in the future. If they want extreme detail... I'd like them to collect some ideas and write em up... and give em to me, so that I have an idea of the kind of tactics they have talked about as a group... and how much depth they have gone into about their abilities, and how they work. This is especialy key with Casters. I see casters as fairly involved and complicated people... even tho as players we can look at fireball and see exactly how it works, I think it should be a lot harder to explaine that from a Wizard to fighter IN character. Also, I don't think wizards just sit there and recite their spellbooks to other party members Wizard - 'Yeh, I've got enlarge person, color spray, Chomatic Orb' Fighter - 'Chromatic orb? Whats THAT do?' Wizard - 'Oh, it creates an orb of color that does varrius things, based on my level. Right now, I can paralize an enemey with it.' Fighter - 'Great. You should memorize at least two of those. Whenever I say "ORB" you should hurl one at whoever I'm pointing at ok?' Wizard - 'Yeah, good idea.' Aaaarrrggghhh. Something like that would just totaly destroy my suspension of disbelife. I think Wizards are fairly secritve about the full extent of their powers... and even when they are not, I think they way those powers work is always at least somewhat confusing to non caster characters. However... I'm a imersion roleplaying sort of player... so I know my style of game is slowly dieing out and is mostly unpopular these days. I only expect it to get more and more so with each new eddition. :(
Kouk 08-20-07, 10:34 AM	I too am a proponent of the idea that they spend a lot of time together and the characters should have some idea of how to best utilize their abilities in concert. So, I allow pretty much whatever talking they want to do, as long as it is not totally off topic and derailing the game. D&D is a social game more than a theater performance. Players have to talk to each other as part of the human experience. It makes the game more enjoyable for most people to not have strict limits on when they can and can't talk, "Dude, you should use Fireball!" DM: "Hey, no talking if it isn't your turn. You didn't hear him say to use Fireball, so if you use it I'm docking you XP for metagaming!" That's not a fun scenario for me. I believe this is a cooperative game, and as such the players should be allowed to cooperate, regardless of any "game world" time limits. Discussing something isn't the same as forcing a player to take a certain action, many times players will disregard the advice of their friends if they think something is a better idea. I let players share information about the fight as they feel like. A player who identifies a monster's weaknesses with a Knowledge skill, or Detects Magic is free to inform all his friends of all the information, if he chooses to. This goes a long way for group unity and teamwork, and making each person feel more important to the overall success of the party. There's no point in having high Knowledge checks if you have to take 8 rounds to relay all the important information you learned. It would have been a better use of your skill points to train something else. This is a fantasy game, most people view as having many cinematic elements and high-fantasy, heroic, unbelievable occurrences. If heroes in TV and movies can communicate and work effectively together (do you realize how much talking people do when they otherwise should just be fighting?), the PCs should be able to as well. Bad guys explain their entire master plan, mooks make stupid and pointless threats to try and "intimidate" their enemies, and every princess is a total babe. Fantasy. (Yes, not all games do this). Talking can also speed up a fight, by giving players who are undecided good ideas, or suggested courses of action. You can rationalize free talking amongst players however you want. The players are free to discuss strategy because their characters should have already handled these issues, and it would be too boring to roleplay discussions which can take several hours with the entire group. The players are free to discuss strategy because their character have an intuitive sense of the battlefield, and can make intelligent tactical decisions that individual players are not always aware of at the time. The can talk because they are heroes, and heroes can just talk for hours on end with no repercussions (like Sam Jackson in that shark movie. Oh, wait...). Ultimately it is a decision you make with the players to do what they think is the most fun.
TyWebb 08-20-07, 02:55 PM	Like a lot of folks here have already said, I allow the players to talk in moderation. They can convey brief bits of information or tactical direction to their comrades. For example: If the wizard is going to cast haste on his turn, he can call out to the fighter to delay his action if the fighter would be going first...."Stay next to me while I cast this spell!" If somebody wants the archer to target a specific creature..."Shoot the tall orc with the helm!" If somebody wants to set up a flank..."Help me team up on this goblin!" If somebody spots an invisible creature...."There's something over there!" If somebody makes a Knowledge roll...."Burn the trolls! They hate fire!" And the ever popular "Medic! Get over here and heal me, dammit!" :D Those are pretty simplistic examples, but you get the gist of it. Much more than that per player in a round and I'll try to rein it in and keep the pace going. If they're caught unawares, flat-footed, or haven't acted yet in the combat, they can't speak until their first action.
gixanthrax 08-20-07, 03:04 PM	If my players are not totally surprised ( say ambush) and have spied on their opponents, know the setting, the terrain and so on, they can have whatever time they need to set up a plan. But as soon as the arrow is in the air, or the first offensive spell cat, we have " fight rounds". That means: On your turn, you can say( in battle more likey shout) a short line , appr. 7 short words as a free action, if someone wants to answer (s)he can do it on her turn. AoC talking is allowed, unless it's about in game strategies. I will allow a " Crap, why did you place your whateer in my line of effect" but a " Don't..." is metagaming and will find some kind of retailation. In Difficult situations for the enemies ( Charge! or not or the like) i rule check wheter the opponents are clever enough to follow some knd of strategie,/ realise that the unarmed monk isalso a danger and so on..
name44 08-20-07, 04:01 PM	I don't mind someone saying, "Bob, your fighter should go for this big one here and let the mage take care of the swarm". Bob's fighter knows what he's doing and would probably spot that. The characters talk around campfires every night and I imagine some standard battle strategies get discussed. If someone says, "My character does this" and it's something I don't think their character would think of, I'll mention it to them (the people I play with are good roleplayers and don't intentionally metagame) and let them choose whether their character would still do it. In the end though, I find that as long as you (the DM) keep a combat moving at a good pace most of these worries dissappear. When things start bogging down just point to the next player in the initiative cycle and say, "What do you do?". I usually get a combat down to around a real life minute per round of D&D, at this speed there just isn't time to have long conversations or to discuss every move.
Lazigothi 08-20-07, 04:04 PM	I would also allow limited talking: a quick phrase. I also consider gestures to convey thoughts to each other to perhaps relay the following: stop, crouch, quickly, split up, cover me, I see three guards, walk quietly, make a distraction, scout ahead, etc. I would also assume (unless I have some really inept and bumbling players) that as the party travels together as they advance in levels that tactics are discussed during down time, which I don't require to be roleplayed. They at least can witness what fellow characters have done before and can expect from them again. As far as being forthright, that's a matter of style for players to choose, but when they cast a fireball, the cat's out of the bag on that one. In a surprise round before the character's turn, I'd allow a swear word as the dagger plunges into their flesh. I would not allow long diatribes.
Tiberia 08-20-07, 05:18 PM	Each Game Round = 6 seconds. While DM sets out the Enemy (NME) figures. PCs may chat among themselves. If the dice falls off the table and we are waiting for someone to pick it up, then PCs may chat among themselves. When the Fight is on and INI has been rolled, then on each Person's go, they may talk for 6 seconds.
Worshiper_of_Moradin 08-20-07, 05:50 PM	Me and my friends with whom I game have agreed upon a set of simple rules about talking in combat: 1. You can only talk when it is your turn and then you should try to limit yourself to a few sentences (haven't set an amount, but the DM has the right to say 'enough' at any point). 2. Unless specifically stated otherwise, all talking is assumed to be verbal communication in common. In other words whatever you say, the enemies can hear you and, if they understand, act accordingly. I like this idea of it. Thanks Drag0nUL. I think I'm gonna try to use this in my games from now on.
Hagroth 08-20-07, 07:09 PM	I too am a proponent of the idea that they spend a lot of time together and the characters should have some idea of how to best utilize their abilities in concert. So, I allow pretty much whatever talking they want to do, as long as it is not totally off topic and derailing the game. D&D is a social game more than a theater performance. Players have to talk to each other as part of the human experience. It makes the game more enjoyable for most people to not have strict limits on when they can and can't talk, "Dude, you should use Fireball!" DM: "Hey, no talking if it isn't your turn. You didn't hear him say to use Fireball, so if you use it I'm docking you XP for metagaming!" That's not a fun scenario for me. I'll have to agree, but up to a point. As a GM and a player, I've been on both sides. As in Kouk's case, I'd let the players suggest strategy, but perhaps in the context of "shouting orders" to the other players. This would allow the enemy to know what may be coming. I think this is especially true in a surprise situation, where you as a player may not know what the other players might do; did the wizard shoot 5 fireballs or 6? Feel lucky, punk? I have a character who, in one surprise encounter, moved at the same time as the sorceror. I told the GM I ran up as the sorceror told the GM that he fireballed them; we had no idea what the other was thinking. It certainly made the encounter more realistic, because of the general chaos of a surprise encounter. Sometimes taking a few hits from a comrade is more fun than sitting and planning the destruction of the enemy for a half-hour.
Unluckylukey 08-20-07, 09:36 PM	This is slightly off the subject but last night a group of NPC who were talking to the PCs said they would like to discuss the PC proposition in private so they can talk amongst themselves. One of my Pc said (out of gaming and seriously) "DM would you like us to leave the room while you have have the discussion?" I explained I am not going to roll play with myself if the PC can not hear me. Ahhhh pcs
Shadowhowler 08-20-07, 10:38 PM	This is slightly off the subject but last night a group of NPC who were talking to the PCs said they would like to discuss the PC proposition in private so they can talk amongst themselves. One of my Pc said (out of gaming and seriously) "DM would you like us to leave the room while you have have the discussion?" I explained I am not going to roll play with myself if the PC can not hear me. Ahhhh pcs Hhehehehe!!! :D Just Awesome.
Hagroth 08-21-07, 12:13 PM	This is slightly off the subject but last night a group of NPC who were talking to the PCs said they would like to discuss the PC proposition in private so they can talk amongst themselves. One of my Pc said (out of gaming and seriously) "DM would you like us to leave the room while you have have the discussion?" That's priceless! I gamed with a guy who, when trying to explain how his paladin came into possession of a new weapon, once exclaimed, "Hey - my paladin does things even I don't know about!" Ummm....what?
Unluckylukey 08-21-07, 02:59 PM	That's priceless! I gamed with a guy who, when trying to explain how his paladin came into possession of a new weapon, once exclaimed, "Hey - my paladin does things even I don't know about!" Ummm....what? that is quite scarey