Can someone take a second [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can someone take a second [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SadExchange
07-12-05, 09:44 PM To explain something for me. I was looking at an Imp in the MM 3.5 and had a question about his attack Poison. It states Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 13, initial damage 1d4 Dex, secondary damage 2d4 Dex. The save DC is Constitution-based and includes a +2 racial bonus.

First of all, does (Ex) mean example? And is it that the PC uses Con as his foritude save? And what does he have to get, and with the racial bonus, where does that come into play? And it seems that Dex falls in here somewhere but I can't figure it out.

Sorry, kind of new with DnD but reading and trying to learn all I can.
Wookie1120
07-12-05, 10:01 PM EX means it's an extraordinary ability. the pc uses his con for his fort save(which he does normally anyways). he has to meet or exceed the poisons DC (in this case 13). dex shouldn't come in anywhere in this case.
if the imp hits with whatever of his attacks has the poison, the character makes a fortitude save (d20 + his for saving throw). If this results in 13 or better, he negates the poison. if his result is less than 13, he takes the 1d4 dex damage. 1 minute later he makes another save, if he fails this one he takes 2d4 more dex damage.
psychocow
07-12-05, 10:04 PM wow, just wow your kinda off base so I'll try to explain step by step here:

the ex means that poison is an extrodinary ability. This deals with the abilities your given in a polymorph spell so you don't really have to worry about it. The con thing means that the dc of the fortitude save is based on the Con of the Imp and that it would go up and down if the creatures con was changed in some way, in addition this is increased by an additional +2 because of the imp has a racial bonus. This all deals with if you need to change or buff the monster some how so don't worry about that either. Fortitude save as you would normally. Now if the character fails their first save lower their dex by a 1d4 roll. 1 minute later they have to save again at the dc 13 save and then if they fail their dex is lowered by 2d4.

For example wizard A is bitten and fails their save in the middle of combat his dex is 12. He is given the initial damage and you roll a 3 his dex is now 9. 1 minute later he fails his save again and you roll a 4 and a 2. His dex score is now 3. he regains this at a rate of 1 dex a night or he can have it given back by spells that heal ability damage.

I suggest you read the rules on poison in the dmg page 296. Please post any further question you might have.
Ut-Napishtim
07-12-05, 10:07 PM Ex is an ability type, IIRC it stands for Extraordinary Ability which are non-magical abilities. PC's should already add their Con bonus to their Fort saves, but creatures with poison add their's to the save DC of their own poisons as well because the higher their Con the tougher their poison is to resist. A PC would have to get a 13 or higher on their Fort saves to resist the poison since the racial bonus is already included. The creature's Con comes into play most often with Augment Summoning (which gives summoned creatures +4 Str and +4 Con,) which would make the save DC 15 instead. It's also important if one of the PC's deals Con damage to the creature (say with Necromancy spells,) which would reduce the save DC due to the creature's weakened state. IIRC the Poison spell deals Con damage, so if a PC did 4 points of Con damage to the Imp the save vs. his poison would drop to 11. Hope that helps.
:D
SadExchange
07-12-05, 11:14 PM Ex is an ability type, IIRC it stands for Extraordinary Ability which are non-magical abilities. PC's should already add their Con bonus to their Fort saves, but creatures with poison add their's to the save DC of their own poisons as well because the higher their Con the tougher their poison is to resist. A PC would have to get a 13 or higher on their Fort saves to resist the poison since the racial bonus is already included. The creature's Con comes into play most often with Augment Summoning (which gives summoned creatures +4 Str and +4 Con,) which would make the save DC 15 instead. It's also important if one of the PC's deals Con damage to the creature (say with Necromancy spells,) which would reduce the save DC due to the creature's weakened state. IIRC the Poison spell deals Con damage, so if a PC did 4 points of Con damage to the Imp the save vs. his poison would drop to 11. Hope that helps.
:D

So, does the imp add anything to the DC 13 with any of his ability or not? The first guy said no, the PC gets a 13, he's okay, you say the Imp adds something. Which one would it be?
SadExchange
07-12-05, 11:22 PM In the description of its spell like abilties, does it matter if the DC is in ( )?

The DC they give for everything in the MM's and Fiend Folio, is that the DC I should use for that particular spell?
imperialjunkie
07-13-05, 12:01 AM The Dungeon Master's Guide has information in the glossary on Poison. Read that and you'll understand it all.

Read the core books. It's all in there.
imperialjunkie
07-13-05, 12:14 AM When the MM gives a DC in the description of a creature, you can go with that number as is. Spell DCs are based on the spell level and the caster's ability scores. The section on Magic in the Players Handbook describes all of that.
Axeling
07-13-05, 12:16 AM Everything's been pretty much answered, but I guess I'll chip in. The poison works as described above: on a successful attack with the poisoned attack, the character hit must make a Fortitude save vs. DC 13 or take 1d4 Str damage. One minute later he must make another Fortitude save (same DC) or take 2d4 Str damage. The bit about it being Constitution-based and the imp getting a +2 bonus are just there to show you how the DC was calculated. Furthermore, as mentioned above, if the imp's Con modifier changes for any reason, the DC is correspondingly changed.

In the description of its spell like abilties, does it matter if the DC is in ( )?

The DC they give for everything in the MM's and Fiend Folio, is that the DC I should use for that particular spell?

The DC in parentheses just tells you the DC of the spell, so use that for that particular monster's spell-like ability.
Kragg Bonemeal
07-13-05, 12:17 AM The DC they give for everything in the MM's and Fiend Folio, is that the DC I should use for that particular spell?

If you are new to DnD, do not augment, buff, or otherwise improve the monsters in the Field Folio or whatever book you are getting your creatures from. In this case, the statistics for each monster will be EXACTLY as set down in the book for you. If the save DC of the poison is 13 for the imp, then the writers put in the bonus for being an Imp (racial modifier) and the Imp's Con bonus (added to poison DCs) already.

So, does the imp add anything to the DC 13 with any of his ability or not? The first guy said no, the PC gets a 13, he's okay, you say the Imp adds something. Which one would it be?

For this case, no, do not add anything to the imp. These guys on here are seasoned DMs, but they are confusing you with all the tricks you can pull with a creature... later... much later... once you are solid on the core concepts like Poison DCs and such. Then you can improve monsters, give them class levels, etc, etc. For right now, when the imp stings your player, the player makes a DC 13 Fort save. If they get a d20+Fort bonus=13 or more, they do not take the Dex ability damage. If they fail, they slow down as the poison starts to cramp their muscles.
SadExchange
07-13-05, 12:27 AM Thank you very much for your reply, one last little question. What if a creature has the feat Greater Fortitude, would that already be in the DC 13 or whatever the MM says it is?
imperialjunkie
07-13-05, 12:38 AM Has nothing to do with it. Greater Fortitude improves the creatures saves, not the DCs of his own attacks/powers.

If you're trying to start DMing, I encourage you to keep playing first until you get a good handle on the rules.
Lord Gwydion
07-13-05, 01:12 AM Remember, the DC of anything is a target number, and usually doesn't change. So when monsters have listed DCs, that should already include every variable that would affect that DC. The notes such as (Con based) are there to let you know what the variables are, not that you should add them in yourself. It's been done for you.

As was mentioned, changing the base stats of a creature could cause the DCs to change, but that's something a starting DM shouldn't worry about. Just use the DCs that are listed in the books.

A saving throw is a d20 roll modified by the character's base save score (determined by class and level), ability score modifier, and any racial, magical, feat provided, etc. modifiers. Roll a d20, add all these numbers, then compare it to the DC of the poison (or other special attack or spell effect) to see if it affects the character or not.

In plainer language, if an imp hits a fighter, the fighter rolls a Fortitude save against the set DC of the imp's poison. The fighter rolls a random number to add to his modifiers, while the imp's poison DC is set in stone.

It's just like making an attack and comparing it to Armor Class. To attack, the attacker rolls d20 and adds modifiers, then compares it to the AC (which is more or less unchanging) to see if he hits. The only difference is that with a Saving Throw, the person being targeted rolls the random number rather than the attacker.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SadExchange 07-12-05, 09:44 PM	To explain something for me. I was looking at an Imp in the MM 3.5 and had a question about his attack Poison. It states Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 13, initial damage 1d4 Dex, secondary damage 2d4 Dex. The save DC is Constitution-based and includes a +2 racial bonus. First of all, does (Ex) mean example? And is it that the PC uses Con as his foritude save? And what does he have to get, and with the racial bonus, where does that come into play? And it seems that Dex falls in here somewhere but I can't figure it out. Sorry, kind of new with DnD but reading and trying to learn all I can.
Wookie1120 07-12-05, 10:01 PM	EX means it's an extraordinary ability. the pc uses his con for his fort save(which he does normally anyways). he has to meet or exceed the poisons DC (in this case 13). dex shouldn't come in anywhere in this case. if the imp hits with whatever of his attacks has the poison, the character makes a fortitude save (d20 + his for saving throw). If this results in 13 or better, he negates the poison. if his result is less than 13, he takes the 1d4 dex damage. 1 minute later he makes another save, if he fails this one he takes 2d4 more dex damage.
psychocow 07-12-05, 10:04 PM	wow, just wow your kinda off base so I'll try to explain step by step here: the ex means that poison is an extrodinary ability. This deals with the abilities your given in a polymorph spell so you don't really have to worry about it. The con thing means that the dc of the fortitude save is based on the Con of the Imp and that it would go up and down if the creatures con was changed in some way, in addition this is increased by an additional +2 because of the imp has a racial bonus. This all deals with if you need to change or buff the monster some how so don't worry about that either. Fortitude save as you would normally. Now if the character fails their first save lower their dex by a 1d4 roll. 1 minute later they have to save again at the dc 13 save and then if they fail their dex is lowered by 2d4. For example wizard A is bitten and fails their save in the middle of combat his dex is 12. He is given the initial damage and you roll a 3 his dex is now 9. 1 minute later he fails his save again and you roll a 4 and a 2. His dex score is now 3. he regains this at a rate of 1 dex a night or he can have it given back by spells that heal ability damage. I suggest you read the rules on poison in the dmg page 296. Please post any further question you might have.
Ut-Napishtim 07-12-05, 10:07 PM	Ex is an ability type, IIRC it stands for Extraordinary Ability which are non-magical abilities. PC's should already add their Con bonus to their Fort saves, but creatures with poison add their's to the save DC of their own poisons as well because the higher their Con the tougher their poison is to resist. A PC would have to get a 13 or higher on their Fort saves to resist the poison since the racial bonus is already included. The creature's Con comes into play most often with Augment Summoning (which gives summoned creatures +4 Str and +4 Con,) which would make the save DC 15 instead. It's also important if one of the PC's deals Con damage to the creature (say with Necromancy spells,) which would reduce the save DC due to the creature's weakened state. IIRC the Poison spell deals Con damage, so if a PC did 4 points of Con damage to the Imp the save vs. his poison would drop to 11. Hope that helps. :D
SadExchange 07-12-05, 11:14 PM	Ex is an ability type, IIRC it stands for Extraordinary Ability which are non-magical abilities. PC's should already add their Con bonus to their Fort saves, but creatures with poison add their's to the save DC of their own poisons as well because the higher their Con the tougher their poison is to resist. A PC would have to get a 13 or higher on their Fort saves to resist the poison since the racial bonus is already included. The creature's Con comes into play most often with Augment Summoning (which gives summoned creatures +4 Str and +4 Con,) which would make the save DC 15 instead. It's also important if one of the PC's deals Con damage to the creature (say with Necromancy spells,) which would reduce the save DC due to the creature's weakened state. IIRC the Poison spell deals Con damage, so if a PC did 4 points of Con damage to the Imp the save vs. his poison would drop to 11. Hope that helps. :D So, does the imp add anything to the DC 13 with any of his ability or not? The first guy said no, the PC gets a 13, he's okay, you say the Imp adds something. Which one would it be?
SadExchange 07-12-05, 11:22 PM	In the description of its spell like abilties, does it matter if the DC is in ( )? The DC they give for everything in the MM's and Fiend Folio, is that the DC I should use for that particular spell?
imperialjunkie 07-13-05, 12:01 AM	The Dungeon Master's Guide has information in the glossary on Poison. Read that and you'll understand it all. Read the core books. It's all in there.
imperialjunkie 07-13-05, 12:14 AM	When the MM gives a DC in the description of a creature, you can go with that number as is. Spell DCs are based on the spell level and the caster's ability scores. The section on Magic in the Players Handbook describes all of that.
Axeling 07-13-05, 12:16 AM	Everything's been pretty much answered, but I guess I'll chip in. The poison works as described above: on a successful attack with the poisoned attack, the character hit must make a Fortitude save vs. DC 13 or take 1d4 Str damage. One minute later he must make another Fortitude save (same DC) or take 2d4 Str damage. The bit about it being Constitution-based and the imp getting a +2 bonus are just there to show you how the DC was calculated. Furthermore, as mentioned above, if the imp's Con modifier changes for any reason, the DC is correspondingly changed. In the description of its spell like abilties, does it matter if the DC is in ( )? The DC they give for everything in the MM's and Fiend Folio, is that the DC I should use for that particular spell? The DC in parentheses just tells you the DC of the spell, so use that for that particular monster's spell-like ability.
Kragg Bonemeal 07-13-05, 12:17 AM	The DC they give for everything in the MM's and Fiend Folio, is that the DC I should use for that particular spell? If you are new to DnD, do not augment, buff, or otherwise improve the monsters in the Field Folio or whatever book you are getting your creatures from. In this case, the statistics for each monster will be EXACTLY as set down in the book for you. If the save DC of the poison is 13 for the imp, then the writers put in the bonus for being an Imp (racial modifier) and the Imp's Con bonus (added to poison DCs) already. So, does the imp add anything to the DC 13 with any of his ability or not? The first guy said no, the PC gets a 13, he's okay, you say the Imp adds something. Which one would it be? For this case, no, do not add anything to the imp. These guys on here are seasoned DMs, but they are confusing you with all the tricks you can pull with a creature... later... much later... once you are solid on the core concepts like Poison DCs and such. Then you can improve monsters, give them class levels, etc, etc. For right now, when the imp stings your player, the player makes a DC 13 Fort save. If they get a d20+Fort bonus=13 or more, they do not take the Dex ability damage. If they fail, they slow down as the poison starts to cramp their muscles.
SadExchange 07-13-05, 12:27 AM	Thank you very much for your reply, one last little question. What if a creature has the feat Greater Fortitude, would that already be in the DC 13 or whatever the MM says it is?
imperialjunkie 07-13-05, 12:38 AM	Has nothing to do with it. Greater Fortitude improves the creatures saves, not the DCs of his own attacks/powers. If you're trying to start DMing, I encourage you to keep playing first until you get a good handle on the rules.
Lord Gwydion 07-13-05, 01:12 AM	Remember, the DC of anything is a target number, and usually doesn't change. So when monsters have listed DCs, that should already include every variable that would affect that DC. The notes such as (Con based) are there to let you know what the variables are, not that you should add them in yourself. It's been done for you. As was mentioned, changing the base stats of a creature could cause the DCs to change, but that's something a starting DM shouldn't worry about. Just use the DCs that are listed in the books. A saving throw is a d20 roll modified by the character's base save score (determined by class and level), ability score modifier, and any racial, magical, feat provided, etc. modifiers. Roll a d20, add all these numbers, then compare it to the DC of the poison (or other special attack or spell effect) to see if it affects the character or not. In plainer language, if an imp hits a fighter, the fighter rolls a Fortitude save against the set DC of the imp's poison. The fighter rolls a random number to add to his modifiers, while the imp's poison DC is set in stone. It's just like making an attack and comparing it to Armor Class. To attack, the attacker rolls d20 and adds modifiers, then compares it to the AC (which is more or less unchanging) to see if he hits. The only difference is that with a Saving Throw, the person being targeted rolls the random number rather than the attacker.