Post/Author/DateTime	Post
magicbehere 09-08-04, 07:18 AM	So right now the group I am DMing is only 2 people strong and I hoped with my starting a new school yesterday I would find a few more potential players, however I was dead wrong. First of all I dont know weather its me only hanging out with older queer people or just the people at this school but they are all so immature and straight. You would not think orintation would matter for D&D and it doesnt but the rest of the group is not straight and Its easier to find a gay D&D player than it is to find a tolerant straight person around here. Most of my freinds who used to play in the campaign went off to university in ottawa and only the youngest of us are still here. What do it do? PS: I'm sure there are some gay people but it seems that if there are any in this school they are all closeted, the people I knew from last year who went to this school all graduated and they said they didnt know anyone else gay outside their grade level.
Telperion 09-08-04, 07:41 AM	How about forgetting your personal orientation and just recruiting some players? I have seen some very weird movies / videos about american social life, but is it really impossible to move outside your own social circle as an individual? The last time I checked the fact that someone is not "straight" (as you put it) isn't printed on your forehead. So, leave that part of you out of the games, don't make a big deal out of it and blend in. There are probably players out there who are more interested in having a good time than getting to know your private life. Heck, I play with some really strange people, but I don't care about that. Most of them are good players who really enjoy the hobby and they leave their personal lives at the front-door. It can be as simple as that if you state the house rules for everyone in a way that everyone understands. Don't make a big deal out of it, but state your rules clearly. EDIT: I must say that I'm assuming you are american, although Ottawa is in Canada. Well, it's all the same to me, since I don't know enough about canadians to make any kind of a distinction between them and americans.
Mythmere 09-08-04, 11:26 AM	I can't be of any help, being American, straight, and from another generation, but I wish you the best of luck. If it's any consolation, by the time you're in your late 20's, the gaming crowd will be less prejudiced (in my experience) than the general population. But gamers, especially those still in school, can be just as bad as anyone else of that age. There have been a couple of gay gamers who have posted on these boards: I'd try to find them and PM them for advice. If you don't mind reading lots of anti-gay flames, you might put the word "gay" into the title of your thread. The other gay gamers will probably read it - they are the only ones really capable of giving you much useful advice.
General Dorsey 09-08-04, 11:44 AM	Instead of looking for gamers at school, have you tried your local game store? What about places like Barnes and Noble? There is also the Gamer's Classifed (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=347) boards right here. Telperion has it right. Don't advertise your orientation. It has no bearing on the game. When advertising, only talk about the type of game you play. Also, something to keep in mind: you just started this school year. Patience is a virtue. You won't find someone in just a couple days. In fact, sometimes it's better to make some friends and bring them into the game, rather than the other way around. Until you find your other players, I suggest that you make the best of the one's you've got. Write the best adventures you can. Make the game as enjoyable as possible. While doing that, run those games where others can see. Sometimes people will want to see what all the fuss is about and join in. There are going to be people who think you're a geek. So what? We don't want them as gamers anyway. Gamers need to be smarter than that. Good luck. Consider also other message boards such as EnWorld's classifieds (http://www.enworld.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=49). I found this list (http://p222.ezboard.com/fokayyourturnfrm15.showMessage?topicID=1 999.topic) of sites that can help you find other gamers. Don't give up yet. There are literally millions of gamers out there. I don't think they all live in Ottawa, but I'm sure that you three aren't the only ones. Even if you are, then you will have to create more. Good Luck.
nlumsden 09-08-04, 11:55 AM	I don't see how orientation really has anything to do with it. I haven't told my player's that I am "straight" nor have they ever declared to me their orientation. Quite frankly, none of us care - we are there to play some DnD, not discuss the nuances of social politics or religion. My advice would be similiar to the above: don't focus on yourself, just focus on making some friends and finding some players regardless of race, religion, age, orientation, etc.
Phrennzy 09-08-04, 12:14 PM	The last time I checked the fact that someone is not "straight" (as you put it) isn't printed on your forehead. :rofl: Believe it or not, a lot of times, it is. However, you are right. Orientation should not be mentioned. It should not have any bearing on the game (although it does. I have never heard of any homosexual character in any module, book, or what have you except for the brief mention in the Living Greyhawk in the back of the Dragon Magazine - and he was a villain. You are bombarded with prostitutes and the rogues that go after them, or the hero winning the girl, etc.) But don't make being gay a requirement to play. It has been said that you should only play D&D with people you would hang out with even if you were'nt playing, and I agree. This is where your need for tolerance comes from, and I agree. I wouldn't play with anyone who had a problem with my sexuality, just like the str8s wouldn't want to be referred to as 'breeders' by anyone they play with. (Okay, so the analogy falls short, but it was the best I could do.) The classified suggested are great. You might also join whatever gay group your highschool or college has to offer. You should be able to find gay players that way. Also, do a search online for "gaymers". Seriously, beleive it or not, that's a real term :rolleyes: Keep in mind that a lot of younger people don't want to be associated with homosexuals because they do not want to be perceived as being gay. Although that is changing, in part because of people like you, who have the courage to be out at a young age. Good luck.
Kalanth 09-08-04, 12:47 PM	I can't be of any help, being American, straight, and from another generation, but I wish you the best of luck. If it's any consolation, by the time you're in your late 20's, the gaming crowd will be less prejudiced (in my experience) than the general population. But gamers, especially those still in school, can be just as bad as anyone else of that age. Yeah, I used to be one of those gamers when I was in school. My entire party would get off the bus at a different spot than our DM because he was considered to be a dork, and we did not want to be seen going to his place to play D&D. Really, the best way to find new gamers is to advertise. And yes, cut out the Gay/Straight, no one cares about that. More likely they want to know the campaign setting you are going to run, not the sexual orientation of the group. Find a local gamer shop, advertise your game there. You will have to weed through miles of crap players, but you will find a good one in there (most quality players are already taken by a group, so the crap players are the majority of whats left)
Twisted Puppy 09-08-04, 12:53 PM	So right now the group I am DMing is only 2 people strong and I hoped with my starting a new school yesterday I would find a few more potential players, however I was dead wrong. First of all I dont know weather its me only hanging out with older queer people or just the people at this school but they are all so immature and straight. You would not think orintation would matter for D&D and it doesnt but the rest of the group is not straight and Its easier to find a gay D&D player than it is to find a tolerant straight person around here. Most of my freinds who used to play in the campaign went off to university in ottawa and only the youngest of us are still here. What do it do? PS: I'm sure there are some gay people but it seems that if there are any in this school they are all closeted, the people I knew from last year who went to this school all graduated and they said they didnt know anyone else gay outside their grade level. Not intending to be gay-bashing, but to me the tone of your post is that you think "acceptable players" means "not straight." If you leave sexual orientation out of the equation you're more likely to find some more players, as others have said. Assuming you're in high school, the fact is (like Phrennzy said) many people will avoid you because of the stigma - whether real or perceived is immaterial - of associating with you. That said, I hope you have some luck finding players.
Board_Rider 09-08-04, 02:49 PM	I am not sure of your age so it's hard for me to give advice. But I find it strange that a person in your area, Ottawa(?), are hesitant to play with a gay player or group. I lived there for 6 months and in Upstate NY for four years and eveytime I met a group of gay men I was tolerant and it seemed it was the norm for everyone to be accepted as they were for the greater good of fun. I mean who cares? Granted this wasn't a D&D group, but at many of your fine nightclubs in your area. I would reccomend all that is said here but most importantly just be yourself. It can be hard because there are those Alpha male geeks out there and they would not dream of playing with a gay group. I just don't see how any of it is relevant to the game. But thats people for you. Good luck!!
mythandra 09-08-04, 03:02 PM	You would not think orintation would matter for D&D and it doesnt but the rest of the group is not straight and Its easier to find a gay D&D player than it is to find a tolerant straight person around here. I love how a dozen different people are harping on someone's supposedly unhealthy fixation on sexual orientation when that person has already made an observation about the environment in which he (or she, I suppose) lives. By the way, it's a lot easier to find an intolerant hetero than an intolerant gay/lesbian. And who are you all to tell him that he shouldn't want to game only with gay people. He seems to have given the local hetero's a fair shake only to find out that they're all bigoted jerks.
magicbehere 09-08-04, 04:03 PM	I love how a dozen different people are harping on someone's supposedly unhealthy fixation on sexual orientation when that person has already made an observation about the environment in which he (or she, I suppose) lives. By the way, it's a lot easier to find an intolerant hetero than an intolerant gay/lesbian. And who are you all to tell him that he shouldn't want to game only with gay people. He seems to have given the local hetero's a fair shake only to find out that they're all bigoted jerks. I dont live in ottawa, I live in whitby, there where -a lot- of gay gamers here but they all moved for university. Now its just a hand full of us. And I'm not fixated on sexual orientation as the above poster said, it has in the group experience that str8 gamers dont fit into the group well enouph and are not comfortable with us. Just 2 weeks ago we were running an Eberron mission and we had a person I knew join the group, they were str8 of course. At first they were fine but when we had to stop and go outside so one of the other players could smoke (I dont let them smoke in my basment, the air curculation isnt to good) the other play went and got us drinks and when he came back ask the new player if they were interested in going out (I didnt mention they were str8) and they person delinded politely saying they were str8 and everything seemed fine until 2 days later when he asked if his other freind could join and I said yes. This time we didnt play at my basment we played at (i dont one to use their names) the guy who smokes place and when they got there they started makeing rude comments and said something about "source of all pervertion and malestation in the world" and we kicked him out, his more tollernt freind went with him. The tolerent guy will not come back because he doesnt want his freind to think he is gay (school is mean). This has happend many times before (not with me as dm) and in those cases it was have been even worse, some of the other players have tendences to get drunk and start touching each other but they are the ones who are gone now. Its fun but Str8 guys dont like being around it, once a st8 girl was playign with us and they didnt seem to mind to much lol. Oh someone asked how old I am and I'm 17 on the 29th.
Board_Rider 09-08-04, 04:12 PM	Or you could try to find female gamers. Is that possible? Where is Whitby? I don't remember that place.
Jaxom 09-08-04, 04:22 PM	I do think the personal stuff is interfering with the game played... but at the age you're talking of, if there isn't common ground then it seems you're already in trouble. So unless you have an agreement to leave personal lives out of the game ... like speaking of sexual orientation or asking people out on dates that are in your game group, you never know what reactions you'll get. We had seven people in our group at one time and I really didn't know much about most of them. One was a friend of mine who invited me to play... that's all I knew. I could gather what some of the people were like in life outside the game, but I really didn't bother finding out. I don't even see any of these people outside the game, no parties, no lunches, no getting together to watch a movie or a game :)
Arak the mighty 09-08-04, 04:42 PM	I was introduced to a group by a friend, and I was to be the DM. Of the three guys besides myself, I only knew my friend that had introduced me, and he only knew one of the other players, who was friends with the OTHER guy, who neither me nor my friend knew. Now, the 4th guy was straight up flamin' gay, (all apologies to anyone who's offended, it's just the easiest way to describe him) and the rest of the guys were straight. Bear in mind that he only knew ONE guy in this new group that was forming. He wasn't about to change his ways to suit us (obviously) and we didn't care, as long as we were just getting together to GAME. We NEVER ran into problems, and I ended up becoming friends with the guy. I've gamed with girls, and when we were GAMING, there was never any sexual innuendos being thrown around, there was never any flirting, and never any asking out on dates and s**t. If heteros can game without sexual talk, why can't a group made up of (mostly) gay people? I'm of the mind that orientation shouldn't matter, you're there to GAME for cryin' out loud, right? Can't the "other" stuff wait til after the game? In the end, it's just people getting together for mutual entertainment. It's too bad that orientation has to play a role in how people get along. I also would like to add that tolerance works both ways.
General Dorsey 09-08-04, 04:44 PM	mythandra, although I see your point, I believe that you may be misunderstanding what many of us are saying. We aren't saying that he has an "unhealthy fixation on sexual orientation." We are simply trying to give him more options for dealing with the situation. If he can't find tolerant people in his area, then he needs to expand his area. You may be right about the intolerant hetero vs intolerant gay, but that isn't how many of us feel it should be dealt with. No one is going to be able to change those individuals' opinions. So rather than deal with them, change who he is going to deal with. magicbehere, I honestly think that you are just having a run of bad luck with gamers. Unfortunatly, you are dealing with more than one "socially unacceptable" behavior at a time. There is no easy way to deal with either. The best thing I think you could do is expand your search. There are plenty of straight gamers who don't care one way or another what your orientation is. That is evidenced by the fact that there are several straight people trying to help you right now. By looking at where society is heading as far as tolerance goes, it looks like we still have a ways to go, but in both Canada and the US, we are moving in the right direction. I really suggest using the classifieds that I mentioned earlier. I did the Google search Phrennzy suggested for gyamers and found over 1,000 sites. You can probably find not only other gamers, but suggestions on how to deal with a variety of issues that others have with your orientation. Again, good luck. If you are ever in the Seattle area, send me a PM and I'll see what I can do about making room in my group.
Kalanth 09-08-04, 04:45 PM	In the end, it's just people getting together for mutual entertainment. It's too bad that orientation has to play a role in how people get along. I also would like to add that tolerance works both ways. Exactly! The ultimate group is a gathering of people that are refered to as simply players, and nothing else. Male/female, gay/straight, none of that really matters, its if you are a D&D player or not.
magicbehere 09-08-04, 04:58 PM	*mutual entertainment* :rofl: I think it would have help if i mentioned that half of the origonal group (15 players) only came to the game so they would have the chance to do 'stuff' with each other, it was one of the reasons i joined, I join this group when i was 14 and the oldest people were 16 (not includeing 2 people in there 20s). At that age there arnt any places around whitby or oshawa (ontario, canada) that gay youth have to hang out and meet each other, more recently a few bars and clubs have been having youth nights once or twice a month but before last year there was no where short of a trip to toronto to go. We have tryed finding players on occation when we go to the clubs (if we remeber) but it only worked out once. I am going to follow your advice and try some classifed and i will have the other players do some work too, since my last post not so long ago we found 1 more player but i would still like more.
mythandra 09-08-04, 05:28 PM	Oh someone asked how old I am and I'm 17 on the 29th. So you're dealing with other teenagers? Good luck. Teenagers can be some of the most homophobic and generally intolerant people on the face of the earth. The best thing you can do is to stick to the high road -- but don't get high and mighty about it; No one likes a pompous ***. The fact that you're not tossing around 4 letter words and expressing contempt for the human race because of a couple of bad experiences shows that you've, thus far, stayed ahead of the curve. I could probably learn a few things from you.
mythandra 09-08-04, 05:47 PM	mythandra, although I see your point, I believe that you may be misunderstanding what many of us are saying. We aren't saying that he has an "unhealthy fixation on sexual orientation." We are simply trying to give him more options for dealing with the situation. If he can't find tolerant people in his area, then he needs to expand his area. >You< and a couple others are trying to give him more options for dealing with the situation. As for many of the other people here...well...re-read these posts: telperion: How about forgetting your personal orientation and just recruiting some players? nlumsden: My advice would be similiar to the above: don't focus on yourself, just focus on making some friends and finding some players regardless of race, religion, age, orientation, etc. twisted puppy: If you leave sexual orientation out of the equation you're more likely to find some more players, as others have said. board rider: But I find it strange that a person in your area, Ottawa(?), are hesitant to play with a gay player or group. kalanth: The ultimate group is a gathering of people that are refered to as simply players, and nothing else. Male/female, gay/straight, none of that really matters, its if you are a D&D player or not. 1/3 of the posts here fixate on sexual orientation without providing a viable means to rectify the submitted situation. _That_ is what I object to.
Twisted Puppy 09-08-04, 05:49 PM	And I'm not fixated on sexual orientation as the above poster said, it has in the group experience that str8 gamers dont fit into the group well enouph and are not comfortable with us. Just 2 weeks ago we were running an Eberron mission and we had a person I knew join the group, they were str8 of course. At first they were fine but when we had to stop and go outside so one of the other players could smoke (I dont let them smoke in my basment, the air curculation isnt to good) the other play went and got us drinks and when he came back ask the new player if they were interested in going out (I didnt mention they were str8) and they person delinded politely saying they were str8 and everything seemed fine until 2 days later when he asked if his other freind could join and I said yes. This time we didnt play at my basment we played at (i dont one to use their names) the guy who smokes place and when they got there they started makeing rude comments and said something about "source of all pervertion and malestation in the world" and we kicked him out, his more tollernt freind went with him. The tolerent guy will not come back because he doesnt want his freind to think he is gay (school is mean). This has happend many times before (not with me as dm) and in those cases it was have been even worse, some of the other players have tendences to get drunk and start touching each other but they are the ones who are gone now. You didn't tell your friends the guy you invited - because you wanted more players - was straight? Did you tell him that your friends were gay? :nonono: I would imagine that one reason you can't get any straight players to come to your home (or the other players homes) is because of the behavior of players described above. Whether they are gone now is beside the point - as a high school student you must be aware that reputations precede you. I'm not trying to be rude, just realistic. By the way, it's a lot easier to find an intolerant hetero than an intolerant gay/lesbian. Well, actually, a lot of the time it depends on what the heteros are expected to tolerate, doesn't it? I don't have to approve of a person's life style to be civil to them. On the other hand, I expect them to be civil back. In the case of a D&D game, I would rate "civil" as me not denigrating them and their choices, and them not flaunting their choices in front of me. Civil certainly does not involve being invited to a D&D game to be hit on or to witness people getting drunk and starting to fondle each other. For what it's worth, I'm hetero, and I do have problems with hetero couples playing touchy-feely at the game table. Fer cryin' out loud, get a room. It sounds like the OP needs to find a bookstore or other - public - forum to run their games. That would reduce a lot of tension of prospective players, especially those in their age group. If (please note I'm saying "if") the nature of the game is such that it would be inappropriate for a public setting - that's probably one reason the straight players stay away.
Darrett 09-08-04, 06:32 PM	Well, you really have few options. You can continue looking for any gamer around, and not worry about orientation whatsoever. You may meet with the same results you have (It's much more likely with Teenagers), or you may not. You can try to recruit only those with the same orientation you have, which will limit your choices somewhat. Really, that's all you can do. One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of people are uncomfortable with homosexuality. The only thing you can do to make them comfortable with it is to make sure that nobody's orientation (Gay, straight, bi, or otherwise) is a factor of any sort at the games. The newcomer you mentioned was certainly out of line saying those things. (If he thinks homosexuality is wrong, that's fine, but as is the case with personal preferences, people really should keep it to themselves.) Generally, people won't play anywhere they feel uncomfortable. I'd say the majority of people will avoid a gaming group where most players don't share their orientation, or one where the mix isn't fairly even. They certainly have the right to feel that way, and can pick and choose who they game with. One thing you might try is just getting some friends together for no reason other than to hang out. Invite the potential new player, and just invite a good mix of friends. It will let him/her get to know everyone, and can help people get past any prejudices they may have.
Glak 09-08-04, 07:34 PM	I can't believe that people have sympathy for this kid. Well in regards to his D&D problem. He even admits that the only reason that he started playing in the first place is because they get drunk and start fondling each other. Then he says that everyone is too straight. I mean seriously. This guy isn't just asking for more D&D players; he is asking for more gay people to fool around with who also happen to like D&D. So instead of trying to get D&D players to sit through open displays of sexuality he should look around for gay people and then teach them D&D. Seriously, time for some growing up.
magicbehere 09-08-04, 07:45 PM	Glak I started playing D&D for a year before I joined that group. I didnt start playing for that reason. The getting drunk and fondling doesnt usualy start till after the games but on occation they have overlapped. We actualy play the game to you know, our first campaign lasted 3 years and spand 2nd into 3rd edition.
Phrennzy 09-08-04, 08:08 PM	The getting drunk and fondling doesnt usualy start till after the games but on occation they have overlapped. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
Mythmere 09-08-04, 08:17 PM	I can't believe that people have sympathy for this kid. Well in regards to his D&D problem. He even admits that the only reason that he started playing in the first place is because they get drunk and start fondling each other. Then he says that everyone is too straight. I mean seriously. This guy isn't just asking for more D&D players; he is asking for more gay people to fool around with who also happen to like D&D. So instead of trying to get D&D players to sit through open displays of sexuality he should look around for gay people and then teach them D&D. Seriously, time for some growing up. MagicBeHere - this is what I meant when I said you'd get homophobic flames. You're doing a better job of not flaming back than I would. You are indeed well ahead of the curve for a 17 year old. My compliments. Glak - I think it's pretty clear that he's NOT "looking for more gay people to fool around with who also happen to like D&D." If you're old enough to call a 17 year old a kid, you're old enough to know Thumper's mother's rule. Take it from me, I'm old enough to call a 30-year old a kid.
Glak 09-08-04, 09:31 PM	I wasn't flaming him; I was "flaming" the rest of you. Just because he is gay doesn't mean that he automatically is a victim. Thinking so is discriminating against gay people. You are the ones who don't respect gay people. He doesn't need our coddling, "protection", or sympathy. He can deal with it, at least from what I gather from his posts. He's not a weakling, and treating him as one is disrespectful. Sure he might not mind, he might even welcome it, but that doesn't make it right.
Darrett 09-08-04, 10:10 PM	I wasn't flaming him; I was "flaming" the rest of you. Just because he is gay doesn't mean that he automatically is a victim. Thinking so is discriminating against gay people. You are the ones who don't respect gay people. He doesn't need our coddling, "protection", or sympathy. He can deal with it, at least from what I gather from his posts. He's not a weakling, and treating him as one is disrespectful. Sure he might not mind, he might even welcome it, but that doesn't make it right. I didn't think that's what was being done. Just putting the truth of the situation out there, imo. I must say I'm somewhat disturbed by the bit about the two overlapping on occasion... that's more than enough reason for anybody to avoid his games, regardless of orientations/genders. Nobody needs to see that.
Arak the mighty 09-08-04, 11:50 PM	1.) Generally speaking, heteros don't like to get hit on by gay people. Yup, it's true. Given the nature of the situation, I think it was up to SOMEONE to let the guys know that the new players were straight, so there'd be no um.........uncomfortable situations. I had a boss once, he was gay, he was a great guy, really. One of the guys at work was worried that he would hit on him though (when he found out he was gay) My boss said, seriously, he doesn't hit on straight guys, that's a surefire way to get his ass kicked! And what's he going to accomplish anyways? At the very BEST case scenario, the straight guy will politely tell him he's not interested. At least that was HIS approach, and it seemed to make sense to me. 2.) if the flirting and stuff overlapped into game time, I can honestly say straight or gay, male or female, I wouldn't game with that group anymore. I'm straight, and if a guy and gal were making out at my table, I'd bail. Orientation has NOTHING to do with that at all. It's not appropriate.
Twisted Puppy 09-09-04, 12:34 AM	Glak - I think it's pretty clear that he's NOT "looking for more gay people to fool around with who also happen to like D&D." If you're old enough to call a 17 year old a kid, you're old enough to know Thumper's mother's rule. Take it from me, I'm old enough to call a 30-year old a kid. Perhaps he isn't "looking for more gay people to fool around with who also happen to like D&D." From his posts, however, it is certainly apparent that not all the members of his group share the sentiment. I'm also old enough to call a 30yo a kid. Speaking of mothers, or parents, I don't know what the laws are regarding age limits for alcohol consumption in Canada, but I have to say that if the D&D game regularly involves the type of behavior the OP describes, some of them need to pay more attention to what their kids are doing. :rant:
General Dorsey 09-09-04, 03:06 AM	mythandra, I apologize for misunderstanding where you were coming from. As for magicbehere, you need to figure out what type of group you want and then begin the search. If you want to simply game, then your orientation should never be brought up. It doesn't matter if you're straight or gay. You're at the table to game. If you want to get a gay group together so that you can play DnD with a little extra on the side, then you need to be up front with people about that as well. You can't get mad at them if they thought they were there to game and suddenly it looks like there is more about to happen. I get ticked off when one of my players starts in about the latest video game or movie, I would go ballistic if they went into the fondling (even if we had more female gamers in the group). If you want a group of gay friends, then advertise for that. Basically, what I am saying is figure out what you want from the group. Use that as the guiding force on what type of gamer you want. It is possible that you will want more than one thing. That's fine, find more than one group. If I ended up playing in a game where another man hit on me, I wouldn't be offended unless he knew that I wasn't interested in men. If he was doing it to rattle my cage, then my cage would be rattled (for other reasons). People shouldn't try to push someone else's buttons on purpose. The homosexuals in the group should know better than to hit on the heterosexuals just to see what would happen. At least that's how I see what you described earlier. Also, I think the games may be a bit more enjoyable with less alcohol and more dice rolling. That is just my opinion though. You play anyway you want. I know that once the liquer hits, the game starts to degenerate. Too much and the roleplaying ends up being a round of "Boot-A-Bout." At least that's what used to happen in the games we drank in when I was younger. Glak, I hope you don't think that everyone here is viewing him as a victim. That is not what many of us are doing. I, for one, see him as someone who is asking us for some advice on how to deal with a situation and we are providing that help. I don't think he is a victim at all. A victim allows a situation to act upon him rather than the other way around. To me, it looks like he is trying to act on the situation. Definately not a victim mentality.
Ssussunriyh 09-09-04, 06:46 AM	I've never been in a gaming situation where anyone's sexual orientation was a factor - which is as it should be, as far as I'm concerned. It would only become a problem if someone else made an issue out of what I consider a nonissue. However, I have bailed out of games or informed players that they were not welcome, as a result of other factors such as poor hygine or drug use. Other times, activities like smoking or alcohol consumption have raised objections, so I would obligingly refrain from doing so while I was there. Everyone has personal standards of what they find acceptable in a small social group, and if someone violates your standards and refuses to defer, you have the right to bail out (if you're a guest) or evict the offending guest (if you're the host.) In short, it has nothing to do with being straight or being gay. It has everything to do with minding your manners and having respect for other people. And sometimes getting along in a group requires you to make a few small concessions and refrain from certain types of behavior. So magicbehere, you need to decide what behavior will be acceptable or unacceptable within your gaming group, then make sure that those who join up understand the house rules, and are willing to conform to them.
Mythmere 09-09-04, 01:06 PM	Perhaps he isn't "looking for more gay people to fool around with who also happen to like D&D." From his posts, however, it is certainly apparent that not all the members of his group share the sentiment. I'm also old enough to call a 30yo a kid. Speaking of mothers, or parents, I don't know what the laws are regarding age limits for alcohol consumption in Canada, but I have to say that if the D&D game regularly involves the type of behavior the OP describes, some of them need to pay more attention to what their kids are doing. :rant: I agree with that, Twisted Puppy. I neither (as Glak says) consider him a victim, nor (as a parent) would I allow one of my kids to engage in drinking and sex at that age, whether gay or not. On the other hand, he's clearly a very mature 17 year old based on his manners and responses to other posts here, and he's due for a compliment on that whether I agree with his parents or not. My point is this and I think only this: MagicBeHere is on this board asking a question about D&D. It's a question from what is clearly a specific and minority standpoint - gay gamers. Whatever my opinion about his lifestyle and the age at which he begins to embrace that lifestyle, I think it's inappropriate for us to answer a question about D&D with flames or attacks on the poster's lifestyle. He didn't start the thread to hear political, biological, or theological opinions about his life, just to look for responses from those who could give him advice about the D&D issue. This is a D&D board. All of us are better off being nice to each other, or at least polite. I'm not referring to the last several posts I've seen, which are all well thought out and fairly presented. Even Glak's post isn't particularly bad - I understand his point about the fact that he's addressing the other posters, not MagicBeHere, but his post also clearly insults MagicBeHere. Since the points have been raised, here are my opinions. Sexual tension of any kind makes the game less fun. Drinking during a game can be fun, or it can detract. That depends on the players. Straight players should be warned if some players are gay, especially at your age when the straight players can be stigmatized for hanging out with gay people - it's just the courtesy of not surprising them with a social situation they're not skilled enough to handle gracefully, and allowing them to make their own informed decisions about the risks of peer opinion from hanging out with you. It may not be fair that society creates this situation, but don't be unfair to your straight friends out of annoyance with that society, either. At 17 in Texas, they'd be risking a lot to even be seen with an outed gay male at school, much less hanging out with him after school. For 17 years old, they're doing better than most in terms of toleration and the "golden rule" already. Those are my points. Be considerate of others, both posters and MagicBeHere. The world's a better place when people show toleration and consideration.
DinubaBear 09-09-04, 01:20 PM	:rofl: However, you are right. Orientation should not be mentioned. It should not have any bearing on the game (although it does. I have never heard of any homosexual character in any module, book, or what have you except for the brief mention in the Living Greyhawk in the back of the Dragon Magazine - and he was a villain. You are bombarded with prostitutes and the rogues that go after them, or the hero winning the girl, etc.) How about Bertram in the Temple of Elemental Evil PC game? Except that only comes up depending on the gender of the first person to talk to him & tell him he's cute. If it's a female, he's straight. If it's a male PC he is gay. One of the less cheesy romantic mini-quests in the game. The how he got to be a Pirate story is funnier if the romance is with a female. But it is well thought out either way. Magicbehere, the problem isn't the orientation of your players, it's their age! Never play with anyone under 26. :D Hmmm. :confused: Maybe that's not very helpful advice. But I've found that a large portion of teens are afraid of being perceived as different & their first defence is to decry it in a bigoted way. Whether that's being a geek or gay or whatever. I started DMing when I was in highschool, first just with guys then I invited some girls. One of the girls liked one of the guys, and during one session they started doing more than cuddling. This irritated me and I thought it a rude interruption so I asked one player to get my polaroid so I could take pictures. Which got them to stop. Later the guys moved away for college & I was left with an all female group. They played much different than the beginning all guy group which wanted to kill everything first. The girls learned that information was often more valuable than treasure. So invite girls. Canada has same-sex marrage legal, right? So it must have some tollerant hang-out places. Go there instead of school to find players. The people there will be less worried about their "rep". Which is socially very important in high school. People not in school with you won't have to be like you not to change their reputation. Oh, and threaten to take pictures at gaming sessions that turn into make out sessions. You'll either get back to the game or have photos that could be valuable. :schemes: :rofl: