Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheModernSamurai 01-15-06, 08:54 PM	So I'm running a campaign, but I find myself constantly pulling punches, not killing the characters. They just faced a water elemental, at level 3 (large water elemental = CR 5), and it could have killed them easily. But I didn't even K.O. anyone... HELP
CryoSilver 01-15-06, 08:56 PM	Low levels? Use monsters with DR. DR is huge at low levels. So is elemental resistances.
Lord Ian Stark 01-15-06, 08:58 PM	1.) How many total characters in the party? 2.) Are they 28 Point buy characters or have a lot higher stats? 3.) What kind of magical items do they have? 4.) Were the characters fighting the water elemental under water or on land where it is weaker? Remember throwing 1 creature against many means the players will get numerous attacks/spells compared to the one water elemental turn.
Milotus 01-15-06, 09:31 PM	So I'm running a campaign, but I find myself constantly pulling punches, not killing the characters. They just faced a water elemental, at level 3 (large water elemental = CR 5), and it could have killed them easily. But I didn't even K.O. anyone... HELP Bring some NPCs against them, like 6 2-3 level fighters, with not so good stuff. Then play it wisely, like they attack against the weakest player, like wizard, they try to flank PC, they'll attack from cover or higher ground and using bows...
MinusInnocence 01-15-06, 09:54 PM	What exactly do you need help with? Are you complaining that you can't bring yourself to drop the heroes into negative HP, because you want them to win every fight and go home happy? This is a far different problem than not knowing how to use monsters effectively in combat. My advice to you is to keep in mind they will eventually grow dissatisfied with the game if they never feel challenged, and your refusal to deliver the killing blow is what will bring that about. If you don't want to ruin anyone's good time by threatening their survival in-game, just remember you may be ruining their good time by NOT doing so.
spectralphoenix 01-15-06, 09:59 PM	If I understand you correctly, you're saying that your PC's are too weak and that you don't want to kill them. Look at the characters and see how powerful they are. Not all characters are equal, and if everyone has low stats and/or ineffective character builds, they just won't be able to fight at the same level as other parties. At lower levels, be very careful when you use any creature with a lot of immunities (such as elementals) especially when its CR is above party level. Furthermore, keep in mind that a CR 5 creature is supposed to be a very difficult encounter for level 3 characters.
illiterate 01-15-06, 10:19 PM	I will kill your PCs. If you like, I will do it without using anything but natural creatures, and the elements. Interestingly, it's possible to be frozen, immersed in water, burned by a massive ball of fire, and struck by lightning without any magic whatsoever. Wow.. I may have to put a natural gas trap in my next dungeon.. I was just joking around about the ball of fire.. hehe..
AMac 01-15-06, 10:56 PM	You need to talk to your players about deaths then, because it seems like you don't want to kill off a character that they put time and effort into, but unfortunately its true: you have to! They just gotta die. Here's what you do: Find the player you like the least, and just kill him off. Be even more surprised than him when it happens! Be like "wow, oh my god, I can't believe he actually killed you. Well... uh... I guess we have to... uh... get another... character... ya..." and they'll just have to deal with it right there. Done and done.
illiterate 01-15-06, 11:11 PM	As someone who has played many games with a soft-touch, I'm just going to say this. Let your PCs die. I'm not saying make them die, I'm saying that if the thing threatening them has a reason to go for the kill, then it will go for the kill. If the players play well and the odds are against them, it may be appropriate to bring in the cavalry to save them at the last moment. But don't let your players learn to depend upon it. They will not respect you for it.
RK)13 01-15-06, 11:26 PM	Speaking as both DM and Player, I have learnt to love a DM that allows characters to die. I break it down to a risk/reward situation. Is the feeling of accomplishment more pronounced when your opponent is at full strength, or when it is at half strength? There is little to no risk in the second scenario, therfore a lesser feeling of accomplishemnt. The greater the risk, the greater the feeling of accomplishment. For anyone, dying is the ultimate risk (adrenaline junkies can tell you this). Therefore, by pulling punches, you are actually denying your PCs the full enjoyment of the game. I am not saying try to kill your PCs, nor am I saying to use tons of "save or die" situations. I am saying just allow what happens to happen. Some tips: For Players: If a DM ever asks "how many hit points do you have left?" after rolling damage, ask for the amoutn of damage they did first, then subtract the full amount... if you die, its part of an adventurer's life, and you can play that awakened carp you've been thinking of. For DMs: Roll Damage in front of the players... that way they know that the dice are determining their character's death as opposed to you. Always remember that you die at -10, not 0 (unless you're undead or a construct)... having the character at -9 and his allies valiantly trying to save them makes high drama
Varia 01-15-06, 11:43 PM	I'm not terribly familiar with 3.5, how does CR work exactly? *Hugs* Varia
spectralphoenix 01-16-06, 12:13 AM	CR is a measure of how challenging an opponent is and how much xp is gained for defeating it; it replaced the 2e system of flat xp awards for monsters. Another thing to think about is tactics. There's a big difference between a group that fights intelligently and one that takes the "Hulk SMASH!" route. Conversely, if the DM has monsters fight from a position of superiority (ambushes, mixed groups, etc.) the encounter will be more difficult than the numbers indicate.
YRM 01-16-06, 01:31 AM	So I'm running a campaign, but I find myself constantly pulling punches, not killing the characters. They just faced a water elemental, at level 3 (large water elemental = CR 5), and it could have killed them easily. But I didn't even K.O. anyone... HELP First of all, a party of 4 players at Level 3 is set up for an even fight against 4 NPCs of the same level, which would be CR 7. So a single foe, a CR 5 Water Elemental, is not supposed to kill them easily. They really should be able to beat it by using about half of their resources, and there's a risk it could kill one of them. Don't go out of your way to kill players just to prove something. But if you want to kill players. 1 - Set up a dungeon or scenario where they can't afford to rest after every encounter, so they'll be facing several challenges and they'll start running out of resources. 2 - Don't pay attention to their HP, spells, or whatever... don't ask if they have 10 HP left, because, if you do 20 damage, you might be tempted to say it was 19 instead. 3 - Have them face a variety of challenges... A 3rd Level party with four players might face a variety of CR1 to CR5 encounters. A few traps, poison, debilitating spells, spread out weak enemies, focused strong enemies... ...the middle encounter and final encounter can be tougher... CR4 and maybe CR5? Like, CR1, CR2, CR4, CR2, (trap CR1), CR5 If they have to attack all those without resting, or risk failure (hostage is moved, item is stolen, NPC escapes) then they'll be worn thin by the final encounter and there will be a reasonable chance that someone will die if they don't play well, or if the dice go badly. Usually, nobody will die, but, along the way, they'll be at -8, -5... etc. Once every 5-10 sessions, someone will die... and sometimes, it'll be more frequently. You can't worry about it. It's easier if you, as the DM, are just as surprised by the announcement of death as everyone else. If you don't know you just killed a PC, you won't pull your punch until you hear them say... "$#!#, I'm dead... -11 HP". It eventually gets easy to balance this stuff so that you can walk the line of getting close to killing, without killing except rarely. It is useful if your players understand that you will kill them, within the rules (not on some DM whim)... they'll be more alert and respectful of the story and happier when they succeed.
TheModernSamurai 01-16-06, 06:52 PM	i think that last post solved my problem... in case you're still interested, it's a Totemist-3, Ranger-3, Druid-3, Sorcerer-3, Cleric-3, Monk-3. thanks everyone ^_^
guru7892 01-16-06, 07:09 PM	i think that last post solved my problem... in case you're still interested, it's a Totemist-3, Ranger-3, Druid-3, Sorcerer-3, Cleric-3, Monk-3. thanks everyone ^_^ well if you have 6 charictars, they can take on more powerful creatures. also, numbers will disadvantage the players since they will need to spread their resources.