Can the half-orc monk carry the halfling sorceror? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can the half-orc monk carry the halfling sorceror? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Finarin Panjoro
08-31-04, 05:59 PM I've got two players who have come up with a plausible scenario. The half-orc monk (Str 16) wants to be able to carry the halfling sorceror (weight about 30 lbs) to overcome the sorceror's low speed when in situations that require it.

Now the monk can easily carry enough to haul the halfling and all of his equipment as a light load.

What I'm wondering is how I should rule various activities while they're doing or preparing to do this.

My thought is that since the monk is unencumbered he should be unaffected by carrying the halfling (no speed or skill check penalties).

I'm thinking that for the most part the halfling would be unable to act while carried, but I might allow him to cast a spell as though he were being jarred by extremely violent motion (Concentration DC 20).

The monk could still act while carrying the halfling (since he doesn't need his hands to make unarmed attacks).

I'm also thinking I will require a move action from both to get prepped for this sort of thing (for the halfling to grab hold and the monk to pick him up).

Does anyone have any thoughts on other things I should consider before they come up in game?
Dash Branaghan
08-31-04, 06:13 PM Not so sure on the extreme jarring motion bit. That depends on how the Monk carries the halfling. When I first read your post, I got this image of a Tall thin Gomorrean Guard with Yodo on his back a la Luke in Empire (on DVD Sept. 21...shameless plug :D).

I can see having a high DC if the halfling is being piggy backed and has to maintain his grip on the monk, but if they put in a harness, I would make it a simple 15 if the monk is running, or 10 if the monk is walking.

The move action and what not seems irrelevant unless your players run from combat a great deal. In my campaign, the only real concern is height when being carried (our half orc barbarian carries the halfling sorcerer/rogue) inside confined spaces...the orc just sits the halfling on his shoulders like a small child and that leaves him with his hands free while the halfling can make a ride check to maintain his balance (in the event that combat ensues.

Dash
Finarin Panjoro
08-31-04, 06:19 PM Hmm...Yoda, good analogy. I'll have to suggest a backpack style harness to them.

I should have mentioned that the extreme jarring thing would apply when the half-orc is running. If he's walking I doubt I'd even call for a concentration check.

This came up because the PCs are in an urban campaign and get into a lot of chases where they are running after the bad guys and the sorceror was constantly getting left behind.

Perhaps I'll only require the half-orc to take a move action to pick up the halfling since the halfling really doesn't have to do anything.
Autosponge
08-31-04, 06:32 PM The halfling has to make a ride check as if he were casting from a mount--since he's actually on a mount only his mount has 2 legs instead of 4.
Fixxxer
08-31-04, 07:10 PM The halfling has to make a ride check as if he were casting from a mount--since he's actually on a mount only his mount has 2 legs instead of 4.

Agreed. As far as whether or not the monk should have problems...well, personally, I don't think he should have any real problems if he's not considered encumbered by the halfling's weight (you are factoring the weight of the halfling AND his gear, right?). However, I'll point you to the description of the Tumble skill, where it says something to the effect of (ad-libbed) "The DM is free to impose any additional penalties to the skill check if the PC is carrying long or bulk stuff like spears."
Grayson
08-31-04, 07:57 PM Remember that weight isn't encumbrance. Carrying 40lbs in a backpack isn't going to be difficult for the half-orc, but carrying 40lbs of squirming, spellcasting halfing sure is.

Personally, I'd keep a close eye on how it's used. If the sorc is in a harness, they're not going to be able to cast at things that aren't in the direction the half-orc is facing. If the half-orc is running and the sorc is piggybacking with no harness, I'd say the halfling would have to make a pretty tough strength check to be able to hold on. Assuming the half-orc could even run with the awkwardness of having the halfling on his shoulders.
allenchan
08-31-04, 08:28 PM If the sorc is in a harness, they're not going to be able to cast at things that aren't in the direction the half-orc is facing..

There is no facing in dnd.
Callista
08-31-04, 08:36 PM Assume the half-orc turns in whatever direction necessary, just as in combat you don't have to declare that you're turning around to whack at the enemy behind you.

That would, of course, mean that if the half-orc is unable to move or slowed or whatever, the halfling might also be unable to act.

From the halfling's angle, I would treat it the same as riding any other "mount". From the half-orc's angle, just total it with his normal load, and perhaps, if he has to use a hand to hold the halfling on, rule that he can only use one hand while he's carrying him.

Otherwise, if you rig up a harness, treat it as a saddle (so that the halfling isn't *tied* on).
Limit
09-01-04, 12:28 AM In my opinion, the rules cover this issue.

The ride skill specifically says you take a -5 ride check for riding a bipedal creature. You would also take a -5 penalty for riding bareback (this is the hanging on to the half-orc's back part). If you got an exotic saddle (the sling) for the half-orc, it wouldn't be bare back any more but it would still be -5 because he is bipedal.

Casting? Well, if the half-orc moves his normal speed during his turn, you can cast your spells normally without a penalty. If the half-orc moves more then his normal speed in a round (charge, double move, etc) then you need to make a concentration check (DC 10 + spell level) or lose the spell. If the half-orc moves quadruple its speed, your concetration check becomes DC 15 + spell level.

You'd probably also need to make a DC 10 ride check to use your own attacks in a round when your mount (the half-orc) attacks too.
nlumsden
09-01-04, 12:40 AM There are two ways it can be handled. The halfling can be riding, or the half-orc could be carrying (i.e. the halfling has no control) - as in under the half-orc's arm (ew) or grasped in both hands. It depends on the circumstance - essentially, I would rule that the halfling is "riding" if he has control over himself (piggy-back, harness, strattling the neck) and that he is being "carried" if he has no control (under the arm, grasped in both hands, thrown in a bag).

For casting, "riding" would be handled via the riding and casting rules, and "carried" would probably be handled more like combat (concentration check, check the components - are his hands free, is he muffled, can he reach his materials).

However, this is just one DM's opinion, you need to run this however you are comfortable with it. If it adds a little flavor and some humor to the game, I'd say run with it and have a good time - ultimately, that's what it's all about.
Grayson
09-01-04, 01:22 AM There is no facing in dnd.

Yes, I know. But D&D doesn't account for party members being strapped to the backs of other party members ;) If the Hork is swinging his axe at someone, he's facing them - I wouldn't allow someone strapped to his back, in a fixed position, to somehow be able to turn 180 degrees to do something behind him.
Finarin Panjoro
09-01-04, 10:04 AM Thanks for all the responses folks,
Fixxxer, yes, I am accounting for the halfling and his equipment (he only carries a small crossbow and 20 bolts, he's a sorceror with eschew materials). The half-orc monk only carries a couple of potions. So they're both carrying next to nothing in terms of actual weight.

I believe I'll handle it like this:

If the half-orc is carrying the halfling (in his hands, under the arm, etc) then the halfling has no control and can take no actions. It takes the half-orc a move action which provokes an AoO to pick up the halfling, but I'll allow him to do it in the middle of a move (with Spd 30 feet he can move 15 ft, pick him up, and then move the remaining 15 ft in one round). The half-orcs hands are considered full (can't use them for fine manipulation skills, like Climb) and he takes a -5 penalty on Tumble, Jump, and Balance checks while carrying him.

If the halfling is riding the half-orc (on shoulders or piggy back) then he'll take a -10 penalty to his ride checks (bareback and bipedal mount), meaning it is a DC 30 to fast mount/dismount (as a free action), DC 25 to take cover behind the half-orc, and DC 20 to attack the same round the half-orc attacks. Concentration checks will be required when the half-orc moves greater than his speed DC 15+ spell level for double speed, DC 20+ spell level for running (I'm applying the bareback modifier to the concentration checks as well since the halfling has to actually hold on to the half-orc). The half-orc can use his hands and takes a -2 penalty on Tumble, Jump, and Balance checks.

If the halfling and the half-orc get a harness then there will only be a -5 modifier to ride and concentration checks so DCs will be DC 25 for fast mount/dismount, DC 20 to take cover, and DC 15 for attacks same round. Concentration will be DC 10+spell level for double moves, and DC 15+spell level for running. The half-orc can use his hands and takes no penalties to any of his skills (like he's carrying a back pack with a light load).

I'm going with the no facing issue since it doesn't effect anyone else who's mounted in a saddle.

Thanks all for your help.
Ricky
09-01-04, 11:34 AM DC 25 to take cover behind the half-orc,

That's hilarious...

"Dude, could you carry me?"

"Sure!"

*Whump*

"OW!"

"Sorry, man, I just ducked behind your head and the arrow hit you instead."

:rofl:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Finarin Panjoro 08-31-04, 05:59 PM	I've got two players who have come up with a plausible scenario. The half-orc monk (Str 16) wants to be able to carry the halfling sorceror (weight about 30 lbs) to overcome the sorceror's low speed when in situations that require it. Now the monk can easily carry enough to haul the halfling and all of his equipment as a light load. What I'm wondering is how I should rule various activities while they're doing or preparing to do this. My thought is that since the monk is unencumbered he should be unaffected by carrying the halfling (no speed or skill check penalties). I'm thinking that for the most part the halfling would be unable to act while carried, but I might allow him to cast a spell as though he were being jarred by extremely violent motion (Concentration DC 20). The monk could still act while carrying the halfling (since he doesn't need his hands to make unarmed attacks). I'm also thinking I will require a move action from both to get prepped for this sort of thing (for the halfling to grab hold and the monk to pick him up). Does anyone have any thoughts on other things I should consider before they come up in game?
Dash Branaghan 08-31-04, 06:13 PM	Not so sure on the extreme jarring motion bit. That depends on how the Monk carries the halfling. When I first read your post, I got this image of a Tall thin Gomorrean Guard with Yodo on his back a la Luke in Empire (on DVD Sept. 21...shameless plug :D). I can see having a high DC if the halfling is being piggy backed and has to maintain his grip on the monk, but if they put in a harness, I would make it a simple 15 if the monk is running, or 10 if the monk is walking. The move action and what not seems irrelevant unless your players run from combat a great deal. In my campaign, the only real concern is height when being carried (our half orc barbarian carries the halfling sorcerer/rogue) inside confined spaces...the orc just sits the halfling on his shoulders like a small child and that leaves him with his hands free while the halfling can make a ride check to maintain his balance (in the event that combat ensues. Dash
Finarin Panjoro 08-31-04, 06:19 PM	Hmm...Yoda, good analogy. I'll have to suggest a backpack style harness to them. I should have mentioned that the extreme jarring thing would apply when the half-orc is running. If he's walking I doubt I'd even call for a concentration check. This came up because the PCs are in an urban campaign and get into a lot of chases where they are running after the bad guys and the sorceror was constantly getting left behind. Perhaps I'll only require the half-orc to take a move action to pick up the halfling since the halfling really doesn't have to do anything.
Autosponge 08-31-04, 06:32 PM	The halfling has to make a ride check as if he were casting from a mount--since he's actually on a mount only his mount has 2 legs instead of 4.
Fixxxer 08-31-04, 07:10 PM	The halfling has to make a ride check as if he were casting from a mount--since he's actually on a mount only his mount has 2 legs instead of 4. Agreed. As far as whether or not the monk should have problems...well, personally, I don't think he should have any real problems if he's not considered encumbered by the halfling's weight (you are factoring the weight of the halfling AND his gear, right?). However, I'll point you to the description of the Tumble skill, where it says something to the effect of (ad-libbed) "The DM is free to impose any additional penalties to the skill check if the PC is carrying long or bulk stuff like spears."
Grayson 08-31-04, 07:57 PM	Remember that weight isn't encumbrance. Carrying 40lbs in a backpack isn't going to be difficult for the half-orc, but carrying 40lbs of squirming, spellcasting halfing sure is. Personally, I'd keep a close eye on how it's used. If the sorc is in a harness, they're not going to be able to cast at things that aren't in the direction the half-orc is facing. If the half-orc is running and the sorc is piggybacking with no harness, I'd say the halfling would have to make a pretty tough strength check to be able to hold on. Assuming the half-orc could even run with the awkwardness of having the halfling on his shoulders.
allenchan 08-31-04, 08:28 PM	If the sorc is in a harness, they're not going to be able to cast at things that aren't in the direction the half-orc is facing.. There is no facing in dnd.
Callista 08-31-04, 08:36 PM	Assume the half-orc turns in whatever direction necessary, just as in combat you don't have to declare that you're turning around to whack at the enemy behind you. That would, of course, mean that if the half-orc is unable to move or slowed or whatever, the halfling might also be unable to act. From the halfling's angle, I would treat it the same as riding any other "mount". From the half-orc's angle, just total it with his normal load, and perhaps, if he has to use a hand to hold the halfling on, rule that he can only use one hand while he's carrying him. Otherwise, if you rig up a harness, treat it as a saddle (so that the halfling isn't tied on).
Limit 09-01-04, 12:28 AM	In my opinion, the rules cover this issue. The ride skill specifically says you take a -5 ride check for riding a bipedal creature. You would also take a -5 penalty for riding bareback (this is the hanging on to the half-orc's back part). If you got an exotic saddle (the sling) for the half-orc, it wouldn't be bare back any more but it would still be -5 because he is bipedal. Casting? Well, if the half-orc moves his normal speed during his turn, you can cast your spells normally without a penalty. If the half-orc moves more then his normal speed in a round (charge, double move, etc) then you need to make a concentration check (DC 10 + spell level) or lose the spell. If the half-orc moves quadruple its speed, your concetration check becomes DC 15 + spell level. You'd probably also need to make a DC 10 ride check to use your own attacks in a round when your mount (the half-orc) attacks too.
nlumsden 09-01-04, 12:40 AM	There are two ways it can be handled. The halfling can be riding, or the half-orc could be carrying (i.e. the halfling has no control) - as in under the half-orc's arm (ew) or grasped in both hands. It depends on the circumstance - essentially, I would rule that the halfling is "riding" if he has control over himself (piggy-back, harness, strattling the neck) and that he is being "carried" if he has no control (under the arm, grasped in both hands, thrown in a bag). For casting, "riding" would be handled via the riding and casting rules, and "carried" would probably be handled more like combat (concentration check, check the components - are his hands free, is he muffled, can he reach his materials). However, this is just one DM's opinion, you need to run this however you are comfortable with it. If it adds a little flavor and some humor to the game, I'd say run with it and have a good time - ultimately, that's what it's all about.
Grayson 09-01-04, 01:22 AM	There is no facing in dnd. Yes, I know. But D&D doesn't account for party members being strapped to the backs of other party members ;) If the Hork is swinging his axe at someone, he's facing them - I wouldn't allow someone strapped to his back, in a fixed position, to somehow be able to turn 180 degrees to do something behind him.
Finarin Panjoro 09-01-04, 10:04 AM	Thanks for all the responses folks, Fixxxer, yes, I am accounting for the halfling and his equipment (he only carries a small crossbow and 20 bolts, he's a sorceror with eschew materials). The half-orc monk only carries a couple of potions. So they're both carrying next to nothing in terms of actual weight. I believe I'll handle it like this: If the half-orc is carrying the halfling (in his hands, under the arm, etc) then the halfling has no control and can take no actions. It takes the half-orc a move action which provokes an AoO to pick up the halfling, but I'll allow him to do it in the middle of a move (with Spd 30 feet he can move 15 ft, pick him up, and then move the remaining 15 ft in one round). The half-orcs hands are considered full (can't use them for fine manipulation skills, like Climb) and he takes a -5 penalty on Tumble, Jump, and Balance checks while carrying him. If the halfling is riding the half-orc (on shoulders or piggy back) then he'll take a -10 penalty to his ride checks (bareback and bipedal mount), meaning it is a DC 30 to fast mount/dismount (as a free action), DC 25 to take cover behind the half-orc, and DC 20 to attack the same round the half-orc attacks. Concentration checks will be required when the half-orc moves greater than his speed DC 15+ spell level for double speed, DC 20+ spell level for running (I'm applying the bareback modifier to the concentration checks as well since the halfling has to actually hold on to the half-orc). The half-orc can use his hands and takes a -2 penalty on Tumble, Jump, and Balance checks. If the halfling and the half-orc get a harness then there will only be a -5 modifier to ride and concentration checks so DCs will be DC 25 for fast mount/dismount, DC 20 to take cover, and DC 15 for attacks same round. Concentration will be DC 10+spell level for double moves, and DC 15+spell level for running. The half-orc can use his hands and takes no penalties to any of his skills (like he's carrying a back pack with a light load). I'm going with the no facing issue since it doesn't effect anyone else who's mounted in a saddle. Thanks all for your help.
Ricky 09-01-04, 11:34 AM	DC 25 to take cover behind the half-orc, That's hilarious... "Dude, could you carry me?" "Sure!" Whump "OW!" "Sorry, man, I just ducked behind your head and the arrow hit you instead." :rofl: