Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Neo_Leviathan 07-11-06, 11:07 AM	I'm not 100% sure on this. Can you ready a counterspell action for a spell that has range: touch? (eg, Shocking Grasp, Harm)
orionm42 07-11-06, 11:32 AM	I'm not 100% sure on this. Can you ready a counterspell action for a spell that has range: touch? (eg, Shocking Grasp, Harm) Yes...but you must be able to touch the target caster when you attempt to counter (Edit: if using the same spell). Obviously, this can be problematic, because you can only take a five foot step to get within range as part of the readied action. But technically, it is possible. Notice this from Skip on counterspelling in general... The rules don't specifically say so, but you need to see or touch the other spellcaster to counter a spell (because the other spellcaster is your counterspell's target). You also need line of effect to the other spellcaster and the other spellcaster must be within range for the spell you're using as a counterspell. If your line of effect is blocked or you're out of range, your counterspell's magical energy cannot reach the other spellcaster and negate that character's spell. This means you cannot use a spell with a personal range as a counterspell (because the spell's range is limited to your person) under most circumstances. You still can counter another character's personal range spell, however, by using a dispel magic or greater dispel magic spell as a counterspell, or by taking advantage of the Improved Counterspell feat and using a spell with sufficient range to reach your opponent. So if you are trying to counter shocking grasp with your own version of the spell, you must be "within range" and must be able to touch the character you are trying to counter.
stargate525 07-11-06, 11:35 AM	So if you are trying to counter shocking grasp with your own version of the spell, you must be "within range" and must be able to touch the character you are trying to counter. however, with dispel magic or improved counterspell (which lets you use any in the same school), you wouldn't need to.
Neo_Leviathan 07-11-06, 11:37 AM	however, with dispel magic or improved counterspell (which lets you use any in the same school), you wouldn't need to. My players, you may stop reading now Ah, good, this means that my idea works fine. An improved-invisibility warlock flying above the party, with orders to do nothing but have readied actions to counterspell the cleric's healing... As a matter of interest, what feats/abilities are there that add to your Dispel Magic check for Counterspelling?
orionm42 07-11-06, 12:03 PM	The dispel check is a caster level check. I am not aware of any skills or feats that would increase caster level for this purpose, but I only have the core books. The only core spell I can think of that would boost caster level for the purposes you seek would be the spell death knell. However, you need to have access to cleric spells or the death domain to cast it. That does not seem to fit with your minion character. Sorry I could not be of more help here.
Salty_Boy 07-11-06, 12:19 PM	Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there still some controversy over whether a Warlock's dispelling invocations can actually be used for the purposes of counterspelling? I seem to recall a thread where the topic was rather hotly debated but with the evidence more often than not landing in the "No" camp.
Neo_Leviathan 07-11-06, 12:30 PM	Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there still some controversy over whether a Warlock's dispelling invocations can actually be used for the purposes of counterspelling? I seem to recall a thread where the topic was rather hotly debated but with the evidence more often than not landing in the "No" camp. As far as I'm concerned, it's a "Yes" in my game. The warlock can use an SLA that states "As Dispel Magic" Dispel magic states it can be used as a counterspell Therefore, warlock's Voracious Dispelling can be used to counterspell. If other people disagree, thats fine, but in my game I'm saying thats how things work
Witch 07-11-06, 12:31 PM	I'm firmly in the "yes" camp. I believe those in the "no" camp are trying to read in the rules too much. Secondly, use Ioun Stones, Beads of Prayer, Ring of Arcane Power, etc.
stargate525 07-11-06, 12:32 PM	Greater Dispel magic adds a +20 to the check to counterspell, but you pay for it with the spell being two higher.
Witch 07-11-06, 12:35 PM	Greater Dispel magic adds a +20 to the check to counterspell, but you pay for it with the spell being two higher. No it doesn't. It adds a maximum of +20 to the check. It's still determined by your caster level.
Nom 07-11-06, 09:41 PM	RAW: the target of the counterspell - that is, the opposition caster - must be in range of the spell you are using as a counterspell. Generally, this is symmetrical (touch <-> touch, Long <-> Long), but if you are using a different spell (eg dispel magic) then your range to the caster might be different to his range to the target. Note: RAW, counterspell also voids invisibility. My house rule: the counterspell is launched against the spell, not the caster, and can affect the spell either at the caster or the origin / target / ... . Counterspelling does not void invisibility.
Griff 07-12-06, 02:43 AM	Doesn't void improved invisibility.