Canoe Speed? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Canoe Speed? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Deluxe 247 G
10-12-05, 10:32 PM Okay so pretty much all the movement you'll ever need and more is on pg.164 of the DMGv.3.5.

However, average speeds for canoes aren't listed, and I was wondering if we have any canoe-ers out there on the boards or just anyone in general (namely, Fixxxer) who knows the average speed of canoes.

I did some internet research but couldn't really find any sites that listed specifically the "average" speed for a canoe. I came to the conclusion through the data I collected and through common sense that canoes move at about 3mph, and a trained canoe-er can canoe for 8 hours/day before testing for fatigue and such. Pretty much average marching. I figured this because rowboats are 1.5mph vessels that require only rowing, and canoes would essentially be the same thing on a smaller scale, plus being sleek.

I was thinking rules for forced "row" would be the exact same rules as forced march. I don't have complete adventurer or complete warrior, and I'm sure if there are any books other than the core which go over this issue it'd be in those, but what do you guys think? Homebrewin' here turning out okay?

Thanks,
Eli
Dragonsblood
10-12-05, 11:47 PM About 10 years ago I went on a canoe trip down the Colorado River for about a week. I'm not sure exactly how fast, but two man canoes going with a very slow current went faster than 3mph... That's how fast people walk.

I'd estimate closer to 10mph, and faster if the current increased.

Also, if your PCs get creative and try to use make-shift sails they actually do work a little bit. It became popular in our group to make sails out of large hefty bags for a little speed boost :)
Argon_Asimov
10-13-05, 01:02 AM Even with minimal effort, a canoe travels a good bit faster than a person walking does. 10mph would be a bit excessive for extended travel, but I'd say 6mph if definately not a stretch.

They do now make kayaks with a sort of a built-in sail that can be held up when the wind is favorable. Of course, that isn't practical long-term on a river, because there usually is not a reliable prevailing wind (unlike the open ocean) so its more of a novelty.

As for exertion, your ruling seems fine. Realistcly, you can't keep up a fast pace as easily in a canoe as you can on foot, simply because your upper body dosn't have the same capability for extended exertions that your lower body does. However, this should rarely be an issue anyways, so your rule should work fine :) .
Deluxe 247 G
10-13-05, 01:57 AM Thanks for the replies.

I was thinking 3mph for one person rowing and a total gear weight of about 250lbs. Also with pontoons.

I could make it so you gain 1mph for having less than 150lbs. on board, and then for every additional person rowing you add 1mph.

Weight on board
0-150lbs.......+0mph
150-300lbs....-1mph
300-450lbs....-2mph
450-600lbs....-3mph

And so on and so forth

Average speed = 5mph for 1 person rowing(assuming no weight)
Pontoons = -1mph.
Each addition rower = +1mph

Also I forgot to add, this is for a trained canoe-ist (not working too well...), anyone with at least one rank in profession(sailor). I don't know if they'd teach you how to canoe in a standard profession(sailor) class, but for the sake of genericism, we'll say they do, 100%. So anyone with at least one rank of profession(sailor) doesn't have to make checks under normal to semi-strenuous conditions. Under extremely harsh conditions, as per the DM, and then even trained sailors have to make checks for sailing and even balancing out the vessle, which is where pontoons would come in handy for experienced sailors, only under extremely harsh conditions.

Untrained sailors would have to make a DC 5 profession(sailor) check every round or start to tip. With a successful balance check of DC 15 you can stop the tippage, otherwise, tippage goes through. Only one person may roll this, however, others in the canoe (or right outside of it) can aid with a balance check of DC 10 to add 2 to the main balancer's roll. Weight modifiers are as follows:

Weight on board
0-100lbs......+0 DC for balance
100-200lbs...+1 DC for balance
200-300lbs...+2 DC for balance

And so on and so forth.

Also, a canoe with pontoons gets -5 DC for the balance.

These rules seem pretty balanced, muy bueno?

Thanks,
Eli
prettyripples
10-13-05, 04:15 AM Even for an untrained person, you're not going to tip unless you're in rough water - especially if you've got pontoons. How about just giving them balance checks in rough water, that the untrained will automatically fail?

Oh, and for 5 ranks of (whatever), the canoeists automatically right themselves if they capsize. It's really not hard, even with no paddle.
JamesDruidDM
10-13-05, 09:25 AM it depends on who is paddling, I would give a + to speed depending on str mod

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Deluxe 247 G 10-12-05, 10:32 PM	Okay so pretty much all the movement you'll ever need and more is on pg.164 of the DMGv.3.5. However, average speeds for canoes aren't listed, and I was wondering if we have any canoe-ers out there on the boards or just anyone in general (namely, Fixxxer) who knows the average speed of canoes. I did some internet research but couldn't really find any sites that listed specifically the "average" speed for a canoe. I came to the conclusion through the data I collected and through common sense that canoes move at about 3mph, and a trained canoe-er can canoe for 8 hours/day before testing for fatigue and such. Pretty much average marching. I figured this because rowboats are 1.5mph vessels that require only rowing, and canoes would essentially be the same thing on a smaller scale, plus being sleek. I was thinking rules for forced "row" would be the exact same rules as forced march. I don't have complete adventurer or complete warrior, and I'm sure if there are any books other than the core which go over this issue it'd be in those, but what do you guys think? Homebrewin' here turning out okay? Thanks, Eli
Dragonsblood 10-12-05, 11:47 PM	About 10 years ago I went on a canoe trip down the Colorado River for about a week. I'm not sure exactly how fast, but two man canoes going with a very slow current went faster than 3mph... That's how fast people walk. I'd estimate closer to 10mph, and faster if the current increased. Also, if your PCs get creative and try to use make-shift sails they actually do work a little bit. It became popular in our group to make sails out of large hefty bags for a little speed boost :)
Argon_Asimov 10-13-05, 01:02 AM	Even with minimal effort, a canoe travels a good bit faster than a person walking does. 10mph would be a bit excessive for extended travel, but I'd say 6mph if definately not a stretch. They do now make kayaks with a sort of a built-in sail that can be held up when the wind is favorable. Of course, that isn't practical long-term on a river, because there usually is not a reliable prevailing wind (unlike the open ocean) so its more of a novelty. As for exertion, your ruling seems fine. Realistcly, you can't keep up a fast pace as easily in a canoe as you can on foot, simply because your upper body dosn't have the same capability for extended exertions that your lower body does. However, this should rarely be an issue anyways, so your rule should work fine :) .
Deluxe 247 G 10-13-05, 01:57 AM	Thanks for the replies. I was thinking 3mph for one person rowing and a total gear weight of about 250lbs. Also with pontoons. I could make it so you gain 1mph for having less than 150lbs. on board, and then for every additional person rowing you add 1mph. Weight on board 0-150lbs.......+0mph 150-300lbs....-1mph 300-450lbs....-2mph 450-600lbs....-3mph And so on and so forth Average speed = 5mph for 1 person rowing(assuming no weight) Pontoons = -1mph. Each addition rower = +1mph Also I forgot to add, this is for a trained canoe-ist (not working too well...), anyone with at least one rank in profession(sailor). I don't know if they'd teach you how to canoe in a standard profession(sailor) class, but for the sake of genericism, we'll say they do, 100%. So anyone with at least one rank of profession(sailor) doesn't have to make checks under normal to semi-strenuous conditions. Under extremely harsh conditions, as per the DM, and then even trained sailors have to make checks for sailing and even balancing out the vessle, which is where pontoons would come in handy for experienced sailors, only under extremely harsh conditions. Untrained sailors would have to make a DC 5 profession(sailor) check every round or start to tip. With a successful balance check of DC 15 you can stop the tippage, otherwise, tippage goes through. Only one person may roll this, however, others in the canoe (or right outside of it) can aid with a balance check of DC 10 to add 2 to the main balancer's roll. Weight modifiers are as follows: Weight on board 0-100lbs......+0 DC for balance 100-200lbs...+1 DC for balance 200-300lbs...+2 DC for balance And so on and so forth. Also, a canoe with pontoons gets -5 DC for the balance. These rules seem pretty balanced, muy bueno? Thanks, Eli
prettyripples 10-13-05, 04:15 AM	Even for an untrained person, you're not going to tip unless you're in rough water - especially if you've got pontoons. How about just giving them balance checks in rough water, that the untrained will automatically fail? Oh, and for 5 ranks of (whatever), the canoeists automatically right themselves if they capsize. It's really not hard, even with no paddle.
JamesDruidDM 10-13-05, 09:25 AM	it depends on who is paddling, I would give a + to speed depending on str mod