Captured Gargoyle [Archive] - Wizards Community

Captured Gargoyle [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zee'Tah
01-23-05, 05:38 PM By some twist of fate my lvl 6 party has knocked out and captured a gargoyle.
The party includes a ranger (max ranks in handle animal) and a wizard (without a familliar)

The party wants to turn it into either the wizards familiar or train it via the ranger. The only problem is that gargoyles are intelegent (int 6) creatures. Should I allow either of these? or what. I am fairly lenient most of the time I just don't want things to get too unbalanced.
Vaval
01-23-05, 05:40 PM First of all It cant be Handle Animaled becuase it has INT 6. Secondly the Wizard cant take it has his famailiar until he gets the Improved Familiar Feat and thats assuming it wants to, remeber Gorgoyles arnt the nices folks around.
Snommelp
01-23-05, 05:46 PM Just looking at the Gargoyle's description in the MM, I'd say that as soon as the gargoyle wakes up it's going to try to rip the party to shreds. They probably won't even have the chance to try Handle Animal or to make it a familiar (both of which would fail, IMO). Since you're such a nice DM, though, give them XP for subduing it the first time, then again after they have to beat it a second time. Just make sure they know that it's not a fountain of inifinite XP; if they let their guard down, it could very well destroy them all.
Talanall
01-23-05, 08:25 PM Handle Animal simply will not work. At all. Not even if you chain the gargoyle down so that it can't rip you to shreds when it wakes up.

A gargoyle is a monstrous humanoid. That means that it cannot be trained via Handle Animal. It can be rendered friendly with a Diplomacy check, if you have a lot of time, a lot of patience, and a good modifier in that skill.

As a larger point of information, Handle Animal is effective only in training animals, or magical beasts with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2. So even if the gargoyle were a magical beast, it is far too intelligent to be handled as an animal. It's sentient, speaks two languages, and in all ways is properly a subject for Diplomacy. It is, in fact, as smart as an ogre.

On the basis that it is not a standard creature for the purposes of becoming a wizard or sorcerer's familiar, I'd probably allow it as an Improved Familiar (as per the feat), with the master needing to be within one step of Chaotic Evil alignment (i. e. Chaotic Neutral or Neutral Evil, in addition to Chaotic Evil), arcane caster level 9th, and BAB +9. That would establish a rough sort of parity with the winter wolf familiar in Complete Warrior. I eyeballed the requirements on the high side because I'm conservative, and because a gargoyle has thumbs, language, and some nicer abilities than a winter wolf.
Zee'Tah
01-23-05, 08:47 PM ...hhmm thanks for the ideas. I don't think that they are going to be able to use it as a familiar any time soon. I think I'll use it as an NPC to deliver quest info for the rest of the Dungeon that they are clearing out if they talk to it agian.

Oh well, the party wizard is going to be angry at me for a while. I will have to prepare for that.

~Thanks
Snommelp
01-23-05, 09:38 PM The party wizard is going to be upset because you won't let him turn the gargoyle into a familiar right away, despite the fact that you're going out of your way and giving him the option of a non-core feat to get this powerhouse? Maybe you've been a bit too lenient thus far. If he gets upset about having to wait before it can become his familiar, remind him that you could have just given him a flat "no."
penchant
01-24-05, 01:08 AM While its true that handle animal doesn't exaxtly apply, you can still force it to comply through intimdation and threat of death. While it may not be a good act, its a judgement call whether it would be evil to do so. That's how neutral and evil people make semi intelligent monsters into semi loyal henchmen. While the gargoyle thinks the party is stronger, as long as it can't join the opposition, it will stay loyal. Over time even semi intelligent monsters can be trained to be tamer. But like tigers, they might still become feral and violent again at any time.

But that's just my opinion. As far as becoming a familiar, I would let the wizard just to teach him a lesson. Being permanently bound with a monster that is evil and violent, constantly sharing its bloodlust and desire to tear his party members to confetti may not be the best way to spend sunday afternoons.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zee'Tah 01-23-05, 05:38 PM	By some twist of fate my lvl 6 party has knocked out and captured a gargoyle. The party includes a ranger (max ranks in handle animal) and a wizard (without a familliar) The party wants to turn it into either the wizards familiar or train it via the ranger. The only problem is that gargoyles are intelegent (int 6) creatures. Should I allow either of these? or what. I am fairly lenient most of the time I just don't want things to get too unbalanced.
Vaval 01-23-05, 05:40 PM	First of all It cant be Handle Animaled becuase it has INT 6. Secondly the Wizard cant take it has his famailiar until he gets the Improved Familiar Feat and thats assuming it wants to, remeber Gorgoyles arnt the nices folks around.
Snommelp 01-23-05, 05:46 PM	Just looking at the Gargoyle's description in the MM, I'd say that as soon as the gargoyle wakes up it's going to try to rip the party to shreds. They probably won't even have the chance to try Handle Animal or to make it a familiar (both of which would fail, IMO). Since you're such a nice DM, though, give them XP for subduing it the first time, then again after they have to beat it a second time. Just make sure they know that it's not a fountain of inifinite XP; if they let their guard down, it could very well destroy them all.
Talanall 01-23-05, 08:25 PM	Handle Animal simply will not work. At all. Not even if you chain the gargoyle down so that it can't rip you to shreds when it wakes up. A gargoyle is a monstrous humanoid. That means that it cannot be trained via Handle Animal. It can be rendered friendly with a Diplomacy check, if you have a lot of time, a lot of patience, and a good modifier in that skill. As a larger point of information, Handle Animal is effective only in training animals, or magical beasts with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2. So even if the gargoyle were a magical beast, it is far too intelligent to be handled as an animal. It's sentient, speaks two languages, and in all ways is properly a subject for Diplomacy. It is, in fact, as smart as an ogre. On the basis that it is not a standard creature for the purposes of becoming a wizard or sorcerer's familiar, I'd probably allow it as an Improved Familiar (as per the feat), with the master needing to be within one step of Chaotic Evil alignment (i. e. Chaotic Neutral or Neutral Evil, in addition to Chaotic Evil), arcane caster level 9th, and BAB +9. That would establish a rough sort of parity with the winter wolf familiar in Complete Warrior. I eyeballed the requirements on the high side because I'm conservative, and because a gargoyle has thumbs, language, and some nicer abilities than a winter wolf.
Zee'Tah 01-23-05, 08:47 PM	...hhmm thanks for the ideas. I don't think that they are going to be able to use it as a familiar any time soon. I think I'll use it as an NPC to deliver quest info for the rest of the Dungeon that they are clearing out if they talk to it agian. Oh well, the party wizard is going to be angry at me for a while. I will have to prepare for that. ~Thanks
Snommelp 01-23-05, 09:38 PM	The party wizard is going to be upset because you won't let him turn the gargoyle into a familiar right away, despite the fact that you're going out of your way and giving him the option of a non-core feat to get this powerhouse? Maybe you've been a bit too lenient thus far. If he gets upset about having to wait before it can become his familiar, remind him that you could have just given him a flat "no."
penchant 01-24-05, 01:08 AM	While its true that handle animal doesn't exaxtly apply, you can still force it to comply through intimdation and threat of death. While it may not be a good act, its a judgement call whether it would be evil to do so. That's how neutral and evil people make semi intelligent monsters into semi loyal henchmen. While the gargoyle thinks the party is stronger, as long as it can't join the opposition, it will stay loyal. Over time even semi intelligent monsters can be trained to be tamer. But like tigers, they might still become feral and violent again at any time. But that's just my opinion. As far as becoming a familiar, I would let the wizard just to teach him a lesson. Being permanently bound with a monster that is evil and violent, constantly sharing its bloodlust and desire to tear his party members to confetti may not be the best way to spend sunday afternoons.