Capturing a Psion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Capturing a Psion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Pizzini3000
02-23-05, 11:54 AM how do you capture someone that can be completly blinded, deafened, binded, and gaged and still blow stuff up and sense everything around him?
mastroyo
02-23-05, 11:57 AM Medieval Lobotomy sounds right to me. :D

Perhaps there's a way around it, like not placing him around stuff he can sense of blow up. Just like Magneto in XMen.
Board_Rider
02-23-05, 12:12 PM Keep him/her unconcious..or at zero HP...all of the time.
Kyy'Dakh
02-23-05, 12:16 PM There's a pair of psionic manacles that reduce or even eliminate psionic abilities as long as they're worn. Think versions made it into both PsiHB and XPH.
DrMorganes
02-23-05, 12:31 PM First off, what level psion are we trying to capture? Level is everything in D&D, especially when it comes to casting classes like wizards and psions. High-level characters are very, very powerful and therefore very, very challenging to capture (alive, I'm assuming). The psion's discipline also makes a difference. A telepath has different weak points in his power selections than a keneticist.

Psions can still be flanked, surprised, and otherwise denied their DEX bonus. A sneak attack with a sap (one of very few weapons which may be used to inflict non-lethal damage via sneak attack) will very likely send Mr. 4-sided Hit Die on a trip into La-La Land.

Psions are still limited to 1 standard action per turn (barring Haste, etc). Multiple opponents spread in a circle around the target is always a good tactic for dealing with area-effect attacks. Sure a few will probably get toasted, but unless he centers the effect on himself (incurring damage in most circumstances) it's unlikely he'll damage or kill ALL of them in a single action. Grappling will force a Concentration Check (DC 20+power level) each time the psion wants to manifest a power. With enough foes (or even one that's strong enough), this could burn through his power point reserve fairly quickly.

Immobilization magic requiring a Fortitude Save instead of a Will Save (like Flesh to Stone, Baleful Polymorph, and other spells primarily from the School of Transmutation). Psions share the wizard's crummy Fort Save bonus progression, and frequently opt to boost INT and DEX over CON.

Poisons of various sorts. Nearly all types of poison saves are FORT based (see above), and require TWO checks. A dose or two of Drow Sleep Poison could be just the ticket. So could DEX or STR damaging poisons. Sure, his mind is still active, but will his power point reserve outlast the poison's effect?
CzarGarrett
02-23-05, 12:39 PM I was thinking poisons too.

Or alchemcal substances that cause ability damage to int/wis/cha stuff.
Vharuck
02-23-05, 12:51 PM Attack him with enough sap-wielding rougues. If he wakes up while being carted off and attempts to manifest, he'll provoke an AoO and you sap him upside the head again.
Dartanel
02-23-05, 02:46 PM There's a reason in films that places that try to restrain psychics often rely on massive amounts of drugs.
Simply int poison the psion down to 10 or less and they're unable to manifest.

Of course if you do that, make sure you're not trying to interrogate them for any complex info.
True Cavalier
02-23-05, 03:21 PM Bash him in the head, into unconsciousness, and then drug him, and keep him drugged... This looks like the more mundane method anyway, since it's the one generally being used to restrain people nowadays...
Meshakhad
02-23-05, 08:31 PM Another idea is sleep deprivation. Make sure he does NOT get enough sleep. That way, he doesn't regain PP. OR you could try a method that I have used WAY too many times in improvised games: Null Psionics Field.

That said, imprisoning psions is VERY difficult. In a short single-person game I played a psion. I was imprisoned, and through extensive use of dimension slide, I escaped.

The only thing that would be harder might be imprisoning psychic warriors. They can also use the brute force methods of escaping.
Mordmorgan the Mad
02-24-05, 12:59 AM Mind Fog ( :confused: )+ Feeblemind ( :behold: )= Vegetable :drool:
The_Ditto
02-24-05, 08:28 AM Because of this issue, I actually starting writing up a PrC which is kind of designed to deal with imprisoning psions ... :cool:

Still in the works ... but basically:

feat leech, power leech and Bestow Power are all key to it's development ...
FriendoftheDork
02-24-05, 08:36 AM Attack him with enough sap-wielding rougues. If he wakes up while being carted off and attempts to manifest, he'll provoke an AoO and you sap him upside the head again.

Ehm, are you sure you know what an AoO is? It's basically when someone is momentarily distracted from defending himself, which means you can attack more and defend less. AoO outside combat makes NO sense at all.

I think the cheapest and easiest way to control him would be to keep him unconscious at all times, or when he has spent all his PP (who would you know that?), sleep deprevation. Being awakened every hour every night should do the trick.

Otherwise only fear would keep a Psion in check.
Vharuck
02-24-05, 09:55 AM Ok then they all ready actions to beat the crap out of him when he comes to.

Oh yeah, there are anti-psionic feats too.
Saiph
02-24-05, 02:47 PM out of combat I'd run it like this:

Psion wakes up.

Rogues roll a spot check to notice.

If they fail, the Psion gets a suprise round.

Roll initiative, Run as normal.

If the Rogues succeed, roll initiative, run as normal.

Why? Cause they know that psion is going to be hostile.

Why the spot (or whatever's appropriate) check? Cause they may not notice if he wakes up, especially if the player wants to fake it (bluff or hide, or whatever check basically).

Its the same way the game handles characters noticing ambushes.
True Cavalier
02-24-05, 03:48 PM You also can't ready an action outside combat. It's cheating since it just means you automatically win initiative the first round... why? Maybe the guy will just awake, won't even open his eyes, and mess with your head while he sleeps (that was in a story somewhere, they thought they had a psion drugged, but when the drugs wore off, and they didn't know... well they found out, but kinda late)
DeLoungeville
02-25-05, 10:44 AM Step 1: KO the psion, sapping rogues work well for this.
Step 2: Drain Power Points From the Psion, The Powerleach and Psychic Vampire Powers will do this nicely.
Step 3: Strip Psion of all gear (check w/ detect magic, see invis etc)
Step 4: Bring the psion around (IMHO being KO'd does not count as sleep for regening HP and PP)
Step 5: Sleep Deprevation as detailed above.

This is a relativly cheap way to keep a psion down. if you don't want to have someone high enough level to manifest the powers above use a psionic monster to do the job (one of them can do the psychic vampire thing). Alternatively you can give a low level manifester a wand (dorje?) of the power.

Hope this helps

-D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pizzini3000 02-23-05, 11:54 AM	how do you capture someone that can be completly blinded, deafened, binded, and gaged and still blow stuff up and sense everything around him?
mastroyo 02-23-05, 11:57 AM	Medieval Lobotomy sounds right to me. :D Perhaps there's a way around it, like not placing him around stuff he can sense of blow up. Just like Magneto in XMen.
Board_Rider 02-23-05, 12:12 PM	Keep him/her unconcious..or at zero HP...all of the time.
Kyy'Dakh 02-23-05, 12:16 PM	There's a pair of psionic manacles that reduce or even eliminate psionic abilities as long as they're worn. Think versions made it into both PsiHB and XPH.
DrMorganes 02-23-05, 12:31 PM	First off, what level psion are we trying to capture? Level is everything in D&D, especially when it comes to casting classes like wizards and psions. High-level characters are very, very powerful and therefore very, very challenging to capture (alive, I'm assuming). The psion's discipline also makes a difference. A telepath has different weak points in his power selections than a keneticist. Psions can still be flanked, surprised, and otherwise denied their DEX bonus. A sneak attack with a sap (one of very few weapons which may be used to inflict non-lethal damage via sneak attack) will very likely send Mr. 4-sided Hit Die on a trip into La-La Land. Psions are still limited to 1 standard action per turn (barring Haste, etc). Multiple opponents spread in a circle around the target is always a good tactic for dealing with area-effect attacks. Sure a few will probably get toasted, but unless he centers the effect on himself (incurring damage in most circumstances) it's unlikely he'll damage or kill ALL of them in a single action. Grappling will force a Concentration Check (DC 20+power level) each time the psion wants to manifest a power. With enough foes (or even one that's strong enough), this could burn through his power point reserve fairly quickly. Immobilization magic requiring a Fortitude Save instead of a Will Save (like Flesh to Stone, Baleful Polymorph, and other spells primarily from the School of Transmutation). Psions share the wizard's crummy Fort Save bonus progression, and frequently opt to boost INT and DEX over CON. Poisons of various sorts. Nearly all types of poison saves are FORT based (see above), and require TWO checks. A dose or two of Drow Sleep Poison could be just the ticket. So could DEX or STR damaging poisons. Sure, his mind is still active, but will his power point reserve outlast the poison's effect?
CzarGarrett 02-23-05, 12:39 PM	I was thinking poisons too. Or alchemcal substances that cause ability damage to int/wis/cha stuff.
Vharuck 02-23-05, 12:51 PM	Attack him with enough sap-wielding rougues. If he wakes up while being carted off and attempts to manifest, he'll provoke an AoO and you sap him upside the head again.
Dartanel 02-23-05, 02:46 PM	There's a reason in films that places that try to restrain psychics often rely on massive amounts of drugs. Simply int poison the psion down to 10 or less and they're unable to manifest. Of course if you do that, make sure you're not trying to interrogate them for any complex info.
True Cavalier 02-23-05, 03:21 PM	Bash him in the head, into unconsciousness, and then drug him, and keep him drugged... This looks like the more mundane method anyway, since it's the one generally being used to restrain people nowadays...
Meshakhad 02-23-05, 08:31 PM	Another idea is sleep deprivation. Make sure he does NOT get enough sleep. That way, he doesn't regain PP. OR you could try a method that I have used WAY too many times in improvised games: Null Psionics Field. That said, imprisoning psions is VERY difficult. In a short single-person game I played a psion. I was imprisoned, and through extensive use of dimension slide, I escaped. The only thing that would be harder might be imprisoning psychic warriors. They can also use the brute force methods of escaping.
Mordmorgan the Mad 02-24-05, 12:59 AM	Mind Fog ( :confused: )+ Feeblemind ( :behold: )= Vegetable :drool:
The_Ditto 02-24-05, 08:28 AM	Because of this issue, I actually starting writing up a PrC which is kind of designed to deal with imprisoning psions ... :cool: Still in the works ... but basically: feat leech, power leech and Bestow Power are all key to it's development ...
FriendoftheDork 02-24-05, 08:36 AM	Attack him with enough sap-wielding rougues. If he wakes up while being carted off and attempts to manifest, he'll provoke an AoO and you sap him upside the head again. Ehm, are you sure you know what an AoO is? It's basically when someone is momentarily distracted from defending himself, which means you can attack more and defend less. AoO outside combat makes NO sense at all. I think the cheapest and easiest way to control him would be to keep him unconscious at all times, or when he has spent all his PP (who would you know that?), sleep deprevation. Being awakened every hour every night should do the trick. Otherwise only fear would keep a Psion in check.
Vharuck 02-24-05, 09:55 AM	Ok then they all ready actions to beat the crap out of him when he comes to. Oh yeah, there are anti-psionic feats too.
Saiph 02-24-05, 02:47 PM	out of combat I'd run it like this: Psion wakes up. Rogues roll a spot check to notice. If they fail, the Psion gets a suprise round. Roll initiative, Run as normal. If the Rogues succeed, roll initiative, run as normal. Why? Cause they know that psion is going to be hostile. Why the spot (or whatever's appropriate) check? Cause they may not notice if he wakes up, especially if the player wants to fake it (bluff or hide, or whatever check basically). Its the same way the game handles characters noticing ambushes.
True Cavalier 02-24-05, 03:48 PM	You also can't ready an action outside combat. It's cheating since it just means you automatically win initiative the first round... why? Maybe the guy will just awake, won't even open his eyes, and mess with your head while he sleeps (that was in a story somewhere, they thought they had a psion drugged, but when the drugs wore off, and they didn't know... well they found out, but kinda late)
DeLoungeville 02-25-05, 10:44 AM	Step 1: KO the psion, sapping rogues work well for this. Step 2: Drain Power Points From the Psion, The Powerleach and Psychic Vampire Powers will do this nicely. Step 3: Strip Psion of all gear (check w/ detect magic, see invis etc) Step 4: Bring the psion around (IMHO being KO'd does not count as sleep for regening HP and PP) Step 5: Sleep Deprevation as detailed above. This is a relativly cheap way to keep a psion down. if you don't want to have someone high enough level to manifest the powers above use a psionic monster to do the job (one of them can do the psychic vampire thing). Alternatively you can give a low level manifester a wand (dorje?) of the power. Hope this helps -D