Capturing PCs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Capturing PCs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Montuban
01-26-07, 12:54 PM I have a lot of memories of encounters, mainly in 2nd ed. that involved the capture of the PCs and their struggle to escape from a cage, prison or dungeon somewhere in the bowels of enemy territory. My question is, What recommendations are there for capturing a group of PCs? In my recent experience, PCs, at least those in my group will almost never surrender. You could surround them with tremendous opposition and while escape might cross their mind, surrender never will. I dislike using challenges that restrict creative thinking and obviate the abilities of the group and I would never put my players in a position that they can't escape just because its what I want their characters to do. I just wonder if anyone has any railroad free tactics that have worked or almost worked to capture a group of PCs.
etraikov
01-26-07, 01:03 PM You can use lots of disabling spells and whatnot to bring down the party without killing them. I managed to capture my party with just 2 enemies that were the same level as the party. They were both invisible and their doppleganger leader disguised himself and sent the party on a mission to a cave. On the cave floor, there was a letter that seemed to be a page ripped out of a book. One character read it, failed his reflex save, and was frozen by sepia snake sigil. The kobold archer (invisible) uses a drow poisoned arrow to take down number 2. The wizard uses hideous laughter on another and becomes visible. The fighter charges this wizard and runs right into a hidden pit trap. The last member of the party was easyly enough taken from there.

As long as the enemy is well prepared, it is simple enough to capture a party with a fair CR encounter. of course, this particular mission happened at level 6, i dont know if it would be as easy with higher level PCs.
Thubby
01-26-07, 01:07 PM not railroad free, but start the campaign IN the cells. their capture is part of the intro.
deal subdual damage, you cant not surrender when your unconcious.
grappling stops most people, and something good at it can easily capture whoever it wants.
big pit traps that quickly close can keep most stuck for a while
Montuban
01-26-07, 01:30 PM I actually ran a game that started in prison and the first session was the escape. It then blossomed into a desert-faring adventure that quickly lost steam for reasons outside of the game. If I had the chance to do it again I think I might keep the PCs in prison longer. That is to say make the escape adventure a multi session, huge undertaking.
danielinthewolvesden
01-26-07, 01:50 PM The rules are simple: DON'T.

DM's love the idea of "capturing" the PC, which includes taking away all their hard earned goodies. DON'T. There is nothing, repeat nothing that will do this without a lot of disgruntled players.

If you want to do this- start the campaign that way. "You were all captured and...."
Radijs
01-26-07, 01:53 PM You can give them a chance to reclaim their things. Perhaps there's something like an evidence locker.
Hack and Smasher
01-26-07, 02:36 PM If you must +1 merciful weapons are the easist way and the nonleathal meta magic feat.

Note if you must, most PC's well pull all the stops out to avoid capture more so than death.
Montuban
01-26-07, 02:57 PM I've never been in a scenario like this where we were not given ample chance to reclaim our possessions. There was one such adventure in which my party had to track down a number of our items from the guards who had claimed them and re-loot our loot. I think it is possible to do it without seriously angering your players, but then, maybe it depends on the players.
Gold Medal Jedi
01-26-07, 03:44 PM Extremely powerful sleep poisons (poison because it works on elves too) slipped into their food by a close friend that was bought off by the opposition. The poison should last an hour or more, have an initial DC of 20 or more, and have no secondary effect.

If you plan on using this on a dwarf or barbarian, use a higher DC, explain it off as a more concentrated form. For every +1 in DC add another 50 gold to the price of the poison. I know thats expensive but your paying the poisonologist for his careful time and care not to poison himself while concentrating the poison.

Of course once you do this the rogue in the party will want to concentrate his poison too so we will have to come up with a mechanic to allow him in the spirit of fairness.

+5 to the craft check for ever +1 to the DC. Seems fair. Also concentration lowers the amount of material too so lets try this, for every +1 it takes double the amount to make it so where one ounce was enough for the base poison under normal circumstances, to give it a +1 due to concentration of the formula you will need 2 ounces.

Once you have everyone asleep you can easily cart them off to the nearest dungeon/prison you want. Of course command word sleep works well too. But elves seem to be immune to that.
Grand Theft Otto
01-26-07, 05:57 PM Justicars and spellcasters with Ray of Enfeeblement and subdual substitution spells work nicely.
dengarbountyhunter
01-26-07, 07:48 PM Heh... I once tried to capture four 7-level PCs with EIGHT gauths (using their less deadly eyerays), and they slaugthered them... No more trying to capture PCs for me.

Capturing PCs isn't much fun to them anyway if they rely much on gear, though we had a psychic warrior/ pyrokinetiscist that could have well burned down through the door were he captured by the gauths... Monks, soulknives and other characters with "innate" (no equipment needed) abilities might like the challenge, but the average spellcaster is going to hate you for taking away their spell component pouch and/or divine focus.

Edit: that's why clerics should always keep a spare divine focus hidden in their arse.
Thubby
01-26-07, 08:24 PM Edit: that's why clerics should always keep a spare divine focus hidden in their arse.

as lovely a prospect as that is, an interesting idea is to have a focus marked on your body, a very expensive tatoo, or cutting the image into your skin and rubbing silver powder into it (it would be a silver symbol of your deity after all). would work just as well. (not to mention the vampire protection, and awesome fact that you have a huge holy symbol emblazoned on your chest)
Radijs
01-26-07, 08:36 PM Hmm silver. I want a piece of that *draws knife*:devil:
Tiarn
01-27-07, 02:22 AM The rules are simple: DON'T.

DM's love the idea of "capturing" the PC, which includes taking away all their hard earned goodies. DON'T. There is nothing, repeat nothing that will do this without a lot of disgruntled players. ...

I've done it many times without disgruntled players. When they escape and reclaim their "goodies" it makes for that much better of a story.

Oh, and to answer the OP. Sneak attack and subdual damage (merciful weapons, saps, or the subduing strike feat). There are few ways to take down a party faster than a group of rogues of their level. Flanking and *bam.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Montuban 01-26-07, 12:54 PM	I have a lot of memories of encounters, mainly in 2nd ed. that involved the capture of the PCs and their struggle to escape from a cage, prison or dungeon somewhere in the bowels of enemy territory. My question is, What recommendations are there for capturing a group of PCs? In my recent experience, PCs, at least those in my group will almost never surrender. You could surround them with tremendous opposition and while escape might cross their mind, surrender never will. I dislike using challenges that restrict creative thinking and obviate the abilities of the group and I would never put my players in a position that they can't escape just because its what I want their characters to do. I just wonder if anyone has any railroad free tactics that have worked or almost worked to capture a group of PCs.
etraikov 01-26-07, 01:03 PM	You can use lots of disabling spells and whatnot to bring down the party without killing them. I managed to capture my party with just 2 enemies that were the same level as the party. They were both invisible and their doppleganger leader disguised himself and sent the party on a mission to a cave. On the cave floor, there was a letter that seemed to be a page ripped out of a book. One character read it, failed his reflex save, and was frozen by sepia snake sigil. The kobold archer (invisible) uses a drow poisoned arrow to take down number 2. The wizard uses hideous laughter on another and becomes visible. The fighter charges this wizard and runs right into a hidden pit trap. The last member of the party was easyly enough taken from there. As long as the enemy is well prepared, it is simple enough to capture a party with a fair CR encounter. of course, this particular mission happened at level 6, i dont know if it would be as easy with higher level PCs.
Thubby 01-26-07, 01:07 PM	not railroad free, but start the campaign IN the cells. their capture is part of the intro. deal subdual damage, you cant not surrender when your unconcious. grappling stops most people, and something good at it can easily capture whoever it wants. big pit traps that quickly close can keep most stuck for a while
Montuban 01-26-07, 01:30 PM	I actually ran a game that started in prison and the first session was the escape. It then blossomed into a desert-faring adventure that quickly lost steam for reasons outside of the game. If I had the chance to do it again I think I might keep the PCs in prison longer. That is to say make the escape adventure a multi session, huge undertaking.
danielinthewolvesden 01-26-07, 01:50 PM	The rules are simple: DON'T. DM's love the idea of "capturing" the PC, which includes taking away all their hard earned goodies. DON'T. There is nothing, repeat nothing that will do this without a lot of disgruntled players. If you want to do this- start the campaign that way. "You were all captured and...."
Radijs 01-26-07, 01:53 PM	You can give them a chance to reclaim their things. Perhaps there's something like an evidence locker.
Hack and Smasher 01-26-07, 02:36 PM	If you must +1 merciful weapons are the easist way and the nonleathal meta magic feat. Note if you must, most PC's well pull all the stops out to avoid capture more so than death.
Montuban 01-26-07, 02:57 PM	I've never been in a scenario like this where we were not given ample chance to reclaim our possessions. There was one such adventure in which my party had to track down a number of our items from the guards who had claimed them and re-loot our loot. I think it is possible to do it without seriously angering your players, but then, maybe it depends on the players.
Gold Medal Jedi 01-26-07, 03:44 PM	Extremely powerful sleep poisons (poison because it works on elves too) slipped into their food by a close friend that was bought off by the opposition. The poison should last an hour or more, have an initial DC of 20 or more, and have no secondary effect. If you plan on using this on a dwarf or barbarian, use a higher DC, explain it off as a more concentrated form. For every +1 in DC add another 50 gold to the price of the poison. I know thats expensive but your paying the poisonologist for his careful time and care not to poison himself while concentrating the poison. Of course once you do this the rogue in the party will want to concentrate his poison too so we will have to come up with a mechanic to allow him in the spirit of fairness. +5 to the craft check for ever +1 to the DC. Seems fair. Also concentration lowers the amount of material too so lets try this, for every +1 it takes double the amount to make it so where one ounce was enough for the base poison under normal circumstances, to give it a +1 due to concentration of the formula you will need 2 ounces. Once you have everyone asleep you can easily cart them off to the nearest dungeon/prison you want. Of course command word sleep works well too. But elves seem to be immune to that.
Grand Theft Otto 01-26-07, 05:57 PM	Justicars and spellcasters with Ray of Enfeeblement and subdual substitution spells work nicely.
dengarbountyhunter 01-26-07, 07:48 PM	Heh... I once tried to capture four 7-level PCs with EIGHT gauths (using their less deadly eyerays), and they slaugthered them... No more trying to capture PCs for me. Capturing PCs isn't much fun to them anyway if they rely much on gear, though we had a psychic warrior/ pyrokinetiscist that could have well burned down through the door were he captured by the gauths... Monks, soulknives and other characters with "innate" (no equipment needed) abilities might like the challenge, but the average spellcaster is going to hate you for taking away their spell component pouch and/or divine focus. Edit: that's why clerics should always keep a spare divine focus hidden in their arse.
Thubby 01-26-07, 08:24 PM	Edit: that's why clerics should always keep a spare divine focus hidden in their arse. as lovely a prospect as that is, an interesting idea is to have a focus marked on your body, a very expensive tatoo, or cutting the image into your skin and rubbing silver powder into it (it would be a silver symbol of your deity after all). would work just as well. (not to mention the vampire protection, and awesome fact that you have a huge holy symbol emblazoned on your chest)
Radijs 01-26-07, 08:36 PM	Hmm silver. I want a piece of that draws knife:devil:
Tiarn 01-27-07, 02:22 AM	The rules are simple: DON'T. DM's love the idea of "capturing" the PC, which includes taking away all their hard earned goodies. DON'T. There is nothing, repeat nothing that will do this without a lot of disgruntled players. ... I've done it many times without disgruntled players. When they escape and reclaim their "goodies" it makes for that much better of a story. Oh, and to answer the OP. Sneak attack and subdual damage (merciful weapons, saps, or the subduing strike feat). There are few ways to take down a party faster than a group of rogues of their level. Flanking and *bam.