Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Soul Collector 08-01-06, 06:20 PM	Hello all, I'm a long time player in this wonderful fiction called Dungeons and Dragons and continue to play once a week with good friends. When I play now a days, as soon as the game goes into its 20th min. it loses something. Somehow the wonderful feeling I feel when I read the various books I have, the flood of thoughts how to use this new material, of introducing new classes with wondrous abilities and power fades away and I can't figure out why. It didn't used to be this way when I was a kid playing with my friends (same friends by the way). Back then, every minute was action packed, whether it be speaking with mysterious NPC's or blasting our way through armies of fiends. What happend? Does anyone else feel this as well? Am I the only one who, quite nerdyly, watches a movie and looks at it through the lens of D&D, thinking of how I can come up with similar circumstances for myself and my players. It's getting harder and harder to capture the nail biting, action swept games I used to have or implement those well written scenes from movies like "V for Vendetta", LoTRs, Gladiator, etc. I don't know if I'm getting my point across. Here's an example. When there is a fight with multiple creatures, it starts to lose steam quickly as it simply boils down to hack and slash with no intensity behind it. When it comes to a good solid fight with a BBEG, it becomes a desperate fight for survival and a general apathy of haivng a character die. If the fight with the BBEG goes better than expected, and it drops in one awesome strike (it's happened a few times), the scale and importance of the fight looses meaning and becomes nothing more than another dead foe. Roleplaying is always an important part of our games and I leave it very open to explore roleplaying pathes, which sometimes they do but it's no longer exciting and significant. Please tell me what excites you about D&D, maybe that way I'll find my lost mojo. Do you sit on the edge of your chair when a large battle approaches and it's a slaughter fest? Do you wait for those hard, quick fights? Is it about finding that lost ancient relic to wield against evil? Is it about uncovering the latest plot twist in your campaign? Maybe I'm chasing something that doesn't exist and is nothing more than a ghost of what I think I felt back then. Don't get me wrong, I buy the latest D&D book (dying for Book of Nine Swords) and I get pumped at the thought of bringing this stuff to life, but in practice, when it comes to creating the gaming session for that day, when it comes to playing it out, it fades away. Why? I don't understand. Can anyone else relate? What keeps you long term players biting your nails and allows you to bring the same excitment you get when watching a movie or reading a D&D book and bring it to the table? Help.
myusernameis 08-01-06, 06:26 PM	I can relate entirely, though I don't really know how to fix it. I guess the best I can offer is to keep up and make sure you keep the descriptions up, maybe not for every little attack roll, but a crit definately deserves a good description, as do various special attacks like stunning fist and smite evil.
metamind 08-01-06, 06:32 PM	Wow, its the same with me. I llok forward to playing dnd all week, and when I finally do, I just don't want to after about 30 minutes.I used to be able to play for hours at a time. My group agreed to no longer use movies in our campaigns, so its harder for my to enjoy my campaign, since ideas come very slowly to me. I wish I could help, but I'm having the same problem.
Daine_Salmalin 08-01-06, 06:58 PM	Well I'm new at Dungeons and Dragons and have so far never even yet played a game. So unfortunatly I dont have personal experience with the problem. But I have some suggestions that could possibly help, if your willing to try them. 1. When I get sick of something (like playing Magic, or a Tomb Raider game, etc.) I'll just take some time off, get involved in something completely different for a short ammount of time, to give my imagination a break from that repetativeness. 2. Check what the campaigns you normally do are based on. Chances are, there are quite a few similarities. Maybe you should try playing a completely different type of PC in your next game. 3. And my last suggestion would be for you to join a group of other players. Eventually when your playing with the same people, you get used to them and the play becomes at least slightly monotone. If you play with another group for awhile, even while your playing with your group - as I understand it, some people play/DM in more than one campaign at a time. I really hope this helps!
Silmon 08-01-06, 07:02 PM	Chiming in here from the old crusty crew :D . I have noticed this a lot myself lately. Not to bash this new edition but the game really has been lost to me ever since 3.0 came out. While there have been some good things there have also been a lot of bad....for me anyway. My paradox is that I love to run at conventions but in order to do so I must use this system to do so. The way that the game I have loved and devoted so much time over the years has changed so dramatically that I do not recognize it anymore and I think that is my biggest problem. I have tried and tried to get excited about 3.5 but to be honest it just goes against my very gaming style entirely and what I think D&D should be rather than this abomination that has taken its place. I see munchkinism in the feat system esepcially. Just to make matters worse all of my old players want to play 3.5 :banghead: In the long and short of it 2nd ed was perfect for me, I admit I went kicking and screaming to 2nd initially, because it had all of the elements that I was looking for in a game. I have started to look at other game systems, Warhammer Fanatsy Roleplay, for a change of pace and thus far I get more excited about running WFRP than I do about D&D....talk about irony.
jaspercrey 08-01-06, 07:39 PM	I find D&D to be less exciting than ever now that I have hit 30, despite the fact that I think I have never been better as a campiagn-devloper and DM. I think a lot of it has to do with the current system (3rd edition and 3.5). The core mechanics seem to quantify everything. Everything is about numbers and bonuses and how do I get better numbers and higher bonuses. The notion of the best numerical value has ruined the very integrity of the game. Players always talk about "choice" --- but in a game where the goal is to get the best numerical value associated with item "x", there really isn't a whole lot of choice, is there? You are always gonna take the best bang for your buck. Bottem line is that Dungeons & Dragons 3.5 encourages players to meta-game, power-game, and see their characters as the sum total of all their magic items and feats.
Ics 08-01-06, 07:40 PM	It didn't used to be this way when I was a kid playing with my friends (same friends by the way). Like someone else said, new faces can make all the difference. either, start playing with a new group or something, and it will make all the difference. And the fact that 2e and 3.5e are different has got nothing to do with it.
Riznar 08-01-06, 07:47 PM	I've discovered that D&D will always be better in your mind than it is in live play.
ccerose 08-01-06, 07:47 PM	Take a break from D&D. As others have mentioned, try a different system or genre. My group gets together once a week, but we only play D&D three weeks out of the month. On that fourth week we'll play something else. It might be a board game or poker, but it gives us a break and keeps things fresh. Aside from my regular group, I play once a month in an RPGA game. Its not much of a commitment (it doesn't matter if I attend or not), plus Its nice to be a player once in a while, and its nice to play with a different crowd.
DarkNick 08-01-06, 08:02 PM	When we are kids it was easy to slip into and get lost in imaginary worlds. I could play with a simple toy for hours and never get bored. I had an imaginary lollie world where I would imagine what everything would be made of. As we grow up I think we lose that innocence, the sense of magic in the imaginary. Maybe we learn what is really possible in reality and this gets in the way of our fantasy? Considering that you still get excited about the game I reckon that your problem could be all about your energy levels. Playing takes a lot of energy. When we were young we did not have the same responsibilities or preasures. Sometimes I find playing on Friday nights really hard after yet another long week at work. Motivation is not so good. I just want to pack it in and sleep. It can be hard to juggle other responsibilities and still have a game at sociable hours. If you can't make a good time when you are feeling fresh then get into the stimulants.
GnomeMade 08-01-06, 08:03 PM	Hmmm. Well, I'm still fairly new to the game, so I haven't had this too badly...but I have noticed that I have the most fun when I'm weak and in danger, and when the danger isn't too over the top. Worring about a commoner trying to slay a dragon, for example, is just too crazy. However, worrying about the whole universe resting on my blade and being a epic character turns me away too...I just can't relate. Now, granted, you have been playing for longer than me, so you've probably tried all this. Here are some things I think would be fun to try. 1) taking a general dragon slaying mission...from the dragon's point of view....trying to defend the nest from those crazy adventurers, orcs, trying to horde treasure (rather than spend it)...to make it fun for a group, have them be a clutch of very young nest mates. (Have kobold npcs, ect). 2) Go somewhere in the world you haven't gone, then go into the deepest cesspit, rather than the grandest castle. 3) Whole group with a vow (or curse) of poverty- no one can collect anything valuable- all skills actually mean something because they can't mix and match magic gear. 4) Play exceptional children- (hopefully taking most of the inuendo out of the equation)- when you are a kid, you always play with wanting to be an adult, take it the other way, and remember how much of a pain it was to have a bed time you had to defy. "But mom, I need to save the world!!! This requires staying up past 8pm!" *Giggle* 5) Try to find the craziest match of skills from different books that have no business being combined, then make a villain out of it. :D 6) Remember, D & D is a mental vacation. Sometimes, just like in real vacations, people over organize and stress out- trying to force it to be fun, instead of letting it be fun. I'm fairly new to D&D and I've already seen that. 'come on people, we got places to be! Just do something, but don't do the wrong thing or it'll ruin it!' 7) Take breaks and don't 'work at it'- I can't tell you how many games I've been to that run eight hours, (that's like going to work!) and they break down in the middle and towards the end, so the eight hours is actually two hours of action and interest and six hours of snacks and half hearted, disinterested play wrung from the players- and once the game becomes this, people remember it as dull, because it's not the first two hours of interest that they remember but the six hours of disinterest. I understand that adults have longer attention spans than kids, but... if it runs eight hours because of high interest, that's great, but don't expect it! :) That's about all I can suggest. :D
Aeromus 08-01-06, 09:36 PM	Hello all, I'm a long time player in this wonderful fiction called Dungeons and Dragons and continue to play once a week with good friends. When I play now a days, as soon as the game goes into its 20th min. it loses something. Somehow the wonderful feeling I feel when I read the various books I have, the flood of thoughts how to use this new material, of introducing new classes with wondrous abilities and power fades away and I can't figure out why. It didn't used to be this way when I was a kid playing with my friends (same friends by the way). Back then, every minute was action packed, whether it be speaking with mysterious NPC's or blasting our way through armies of fiends. What happend? Does anyone else feel this as well? Am I the only one who, quite nerdyly, watches a movie and looks at it through the lens of D&D, thinking of how I can come up with similar circumstances for myself and my players. It's getting harder and harder to capture the nail biting, action swept games I used to have or implement those well written scenes from movies like "V for Vendetta", LoTRs, Gladiator, etc. I don't know if I'm getting my point across. Here's an example. When there is a fight with multiple creatures, it starts to lose steam quickly as it simply boils down to hack and slash with no intensity behind it. When it comes to a good solid fight with a BBEG, it becomes a desperate fight for survival and a general apathy of haivng a character die. If the fight with the BBEG goes better than expected, and it drops in one awesome strike (it's happened a few times), the scale and importance of the fight looses meaning and becomes nothing more than another dead foe. Roleplaying is always an important part of our games and I leave it very open to explore roleplaying pathes, which sometimes they do but it's no longer exciting and significant. Please tell me what excites you about D&D, maybe that way I'll find my lost mojo. Do you sit on the edge of your chair when a large battle approaches and it's a slaughter fest? Do you wait for those hard, quick fights? Is it about finding that lost ancient relic to wield against evil? Is it about uncovering the latest plot twist in your campaign? Maybe I'm chasing something that doesn't exist and is nothing more than a ghost of what I think I felt back then. Don't get me wrong, I buy the latest D&D book (dying for Book of Nine Swords) and I get pumped at the thought of bringing this stuff to life, but in practice, when it comes to creating the gaming session for that day, when it comes to playing it out, it fades away. Why? I don't understand. Can anyone else relate? What keeps you long term players biting your nails and allows you to bring the same excitment you get when watching a movie or reading a D&D book and bring it to the table? Help. Simply the problem is, you grew up. Look into another game, I'd reccomend White-Wolf's games. They're a more mature setup, with more realistic set of options.
The Soul Collector 08-01-06, 10:46 PM	Simply the problem is, you grew up. LOL Please don't say that. :) I don't think it's the case necessarily since I have the same love of fantasy and this sort of thing as I've always had. 6) Remember, D & D is a mental vacation. Sometimes, just like in real vacations, people over organize and stress out- trying to force it to be fun, instead of letting it be fun. I'm fairly new to D&D and I've already seen that. 'come on people, we got places to be! Just do something, but don't do the wrong thing or it'll ruin it!' That's an interesting perspective. If you can't make a good time when you are feeling fresh then get into the stimulants. I do run my own business and I admit, it's tough to entirely wrap my mind around the game due to the millions of things I'm stressing over. Can this be it? This really hit me hard, I hope it's not always true. Playing takes a lot of energy. When we were young we did not have the same responsibilities or pressures. I'd love to, how can I? Take a break from D&D. I know some have mentioned this but I still feel a deep love and respect for the game and still look forward to pay but it fades at the table. I've discovered that D&D will always be better in your mind than it is in live play.
pmurray@bigpond.com 08-02-06, 12:35 AM	I've discovered that D&D will always be better in your mind than it is in live play. Like sex, really.
Arctigear 08-02-06, 12:40 AM	It hasn't happened to me yet, but I can see how it will, and why it does. D&D is so novel because it is different, new, --impossible--, by our defenition of the real world. We love to play spellcasters because its completely uncharted territory (how many people cast spells for a living?), just as many people love fighter-types because they don't really know what it exactly feels like. We all begin imagining ourselves in place of our characters, and that is definately fun. But the problem arises once it is no longer new or different. Once you play 5 fighter classes, they get kinda... boring. It's no longer fun to think about a giant man weilding two swords because that reminds you of the other 4 guys who did just the same thing. The novelty of a magic missile wears off pretty fast, and so does healing, and eventually the Wizard and Cleric altogether follow. Sure there are spaces in between, and many prestige classes, but that doesn't solve the problem, it just delays it. Now you can't very well forget all your previous experiences with D&D and start over, but taking a break from the game seems like the best option. Tether your mind back to the real world, and the escape that D&D offers will set you free once again.
silvergamgee 08-02-06, 12:55 AM	I have the same problem sometimes. I know exactly where it comes from in my campaign, things take too long to do when the gamers are experienced. The DM knows that the players know every trick in the book, so he (or she) digs deep into books putting together strange templates and spell like and supernatural abilities. He desperately wants to create something that is new and challenging that you won't automatically know how to stomp. The end result? Individual rounds take eons to get through as the DM (sometimes players, but mostly DMs, heh no offense guys) look through their books searching for that one special ability they planned for that situation. The end result is that the game grinds into a chess match where players are forced to look at the boards for 30 minutes before they take their moves. There is a flurry of activity and then you wait again. D&D is a roleplaying game based in combat. Let combat be exciting and fun. Let players use their abilities. So what if they mop the floor with normal monsters? It's a game, not an arms race.
tsuyoshikentsu 08-02-06, 02:22 AM	Yeah. You grew up. As someone who happens to be right in the middle of that experience: It sucks. A lot.
Always-Late 08-02-06, 03:10 AM	Yeah. You grew up. As someone who happens to be right in the middle of that experience: It sucks. A lot.Aren't we all?
Moon-Lancer 08-02-06, 03:45 AM	Well i am new to d&d and starting playing in 3.5. I cant say i fully understand your specific nestalga, but i can say i have a deep nestalga for fantasy. Tell you what i do to make d&d fun and bring that love of fantasy to the table. well first because d&d is partially about the numbers, i will spend time creating a build I like. After finishing the build, I tend to to touch it again as the build should only be used to keep the character alive, and playing a build is no fun anyway, but a character is. I know what you must be thinking. HOW CAN A BUILD BE USED TO MAKE A CHARICTER? DOESENT THAT HURT THE CHARICTER? well i have to say its like a support for the character before the character is fully developed. Like when gluing a mini together. Second I make a character by writing up a back-story, and filling out questionnaires that develop his personality. I try my best to make the character as unieq as possible and I try to use parts of the build as inspiration for the character. How could a character to X? Why? it gets me a few ideas and before a know it, the build is gone and a character is left. After this i tends to Draw a picture of the character and pretty soon i have a complete character. it takes me awhile to make a character, that is the only downside. I do notice that thinking about the character and playing the character give two different feelings and that having a build can take some mystery out of the game, but i just have to focused being the character and it tends to be fun. Sometimes i feel like the op, but this is usually when i have other obligations and i feel like i have wasted my time playing d&d instead of getting a demoreel done, but d&d is still fun. When i play at the table, I do meditations to get into character. The visualization of the character and back-story really help and really gets me into the mood. I also use childhood aids as a focuse. I said before that i am new to d&d, but I am not new to fantasy. I think the same way i think about games like wizards and warriors (nes) and dragon quest 1&2 (nes) and zelda (nes) is probably the same way you old players of 1e and 2.xe is the same. as the world passes us by, we remember the good times and forget the old (usaly) we remember the fun we had playing d&d and w&w. If I play the intro to w&w it takes me back to what I think d&d should be and really helps get into the game like the good old days that I remember with my Nintendo. I bet if you keep around a old d&d at your table, or some physical iteam, it will help you. As DM you are master of the content of the game. The game follows your creative vision. If you find what you loved about the game and focus on it, it should help. I think also taking a break from the game can help out if your burned. Once I played a d&d-like game when i was six or so. It had a dm screen with an old man The game came in a box with all the minis, dice, spell cards and prepared adventures. I forget the name but remembering that game really brings back memories and helps me incorporate that into playing 3.5. I think 3.5 really does hinder roleplaying but once you know the rules you have to let them go. Let go of what you know and just play. ignorence is bliss.
Tormsskull 08-02-06, 08:31 AM	*snip* *snip* I agree with both of these posters. I think the appeal with D&D is all in the players & the DM. As a DM I look for exciting storyline, character development, and adventure. I want my players to be able to feel the level of excitement that I feel when I am envisioning the things I have created. The current D&D rules foster an attitude of optimization, min/maxing, etc. I often see posts on these board from players who view D&D as a war game. The only thing that matters is having the best stats, best overall bonuses, being able to deal out loads of damage, etc. Here is a radical thought. I have noticed that with newer players (or players who never sat down and read the books from front to back) it is easier to create a good D&D enviroment. The players never know what to expect, and so a level of mystery is there. Perhaps the players know too much? I know that when a DM introduces me to a brand new setting, it is very exiciting. I don't know what to expect, and thus my curiosity is piqued. If this is the case, then good advice would be for a DM to try very different settings/campaigns with their veteran players. Perhaps try an undersea campaign, a campaign of all woodland folk, etc. Unless of course, your normal campaigns revolve around numerous monstrous humanoids/undead/other strange things as PCs, then maybe you need to return to traditional.
rhflyweyr 08-02-06, 09:26 AM	I dont think that anything has been lost in from the old editions (started with 2nd), I think that people are expecting the game to bring the fun and excitement. DnD only offers what you bring into it, if you only care about the rules, the dice rolls, and the experience points... no system will bring you anything more then mechanics. I enjoy DnD, even when I have a bad group or dont get to roleplay like i want to. But lets face it, we all have those groups which brought more to the game then just characters, and that is what we are missing. Personally, I think that 3.5 is much superior to the old 2nd edition because the rules are simpler and more straight forward. If you are just looking for how the system works, this may not be the best, but I feel that it makes it easier to actually play and not worry about the mechanics. and an addendum, i agree with above, my best group ever was with people totally new to the system.
TarlSS 08-02-06, 10:15 AM	I'm having the same problems, but with GURPS. It's always an arguement or something over rules. I think your group knows each other too well, or otherwise has soured a little. I mean, I just found a D&D game this week, something I haven't played for months, and it was a blast. Found a new group of the internet. Everything was refreshing, and there weren't any arguments. It wasn't a chore. I think you should probably find a new group, or a new game, take a break
FearlessLeader 08-02-06, 11:05 AM	:weep: :weep: This thread makes me so sad. I know exactly what everyone is talking about with losing the magic, except I only ever have it when I'm reading the books. I think it is largely due to my group of friends, they are not very punctual. By the time everyone shows up the people who were there on time are already begining to lose steam.
luthar28 08-02-06, 12:40 PM	Sadly, the magic died for me 24 years ago when I was 10. The 'magic' only lasted about 3 sessions. It was the sessions where everything seemed so deadly, so wonderous. I came upon a box of mold -- but made my ST and didn't die! My hands were shaking I was so worried for my character (which I had so originally named Aragorn). Then the Carrion Crawler, the Rust Monster. Every door was a death trap (anyone remember the Fighting Fantasy books?) The danger faded but then something else took over -- a sense of wonderment with each storyline. It became more about the story. As some have already suggested, trying adding a couple of new players. I recently added three! And it's been great. New perspectives, new ideas. New ways to push forward. D&D is an idea game (obviously). What I mean, is that strip away the stat blocks, strip away the character sheets, and you're left with a bunch of people trying to construct their own mythology. I've always looked it at that my job as DM is to tell a story, not just roll dice. So if the Big Bad isn't going to survive round 1, then I have him escape and become a nemesis. If the Big Bad is too strong, I have some former ally of the characters intervene.
Kimokeo 08-02-06, 12:59 PM	I've had DM burn-out. I had to be a player. That's tough when everyone likes you as the DM and no one wants to take the time to be a DM. AND, every DM will tell you that the current D&D is a lot more timeconsuming than any of the previous versions. Heck, I could setup characters for 1st and 2nd edition (since I still have everything from back then) and be ready in less than a half-an-hour. The game I run would take me probably an hour, tops. The old monster manuals were easy to use and the combat situations were hack and slash. There wasn't a whole lot more to it. I try to explain to younger players that you could play for a year with a group of 8 characters and you might be 3rd level at the end. That orcs could be worth 10xp +1/hp and that thieves went up a level at 1,250 while the fighter didn't until 2,000 and the wizard waited until he hit 2,500 which at that time the thief just went to third level. Magic items were never bought. You found them all-even scrolls and potions. There were no shops. Sages existed but they told you were to find the goodies. By 4th level, each character might have a magic item. Yes, one item each and you were rich if you did. You didn't dare mention the name Asmodeus since there was 1% chance he might hear you and fighting Tiamat was a goal you'd never achieve, even if you played for 20 years and you finally reached 10th level. I remember an old gaming joke from the even older veterans that said the group was 4th level, was really going to die because the encounters coming up were powerful, and the one that reach 5th level did it by poisoning everyone in the group at dinner. Become a player. It gave me the break I needed. As a player, I don't think anywhere near as much about the game nor spend as much time. That's the DM's job. I just need to show up and kick some and survive at the same time. 1st edition DMG - +2 backscratcher 1st edition MM - That last one we talked to ate half the party I miss the jokes - all the old manuals had them.