Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Doomsought 04-14-08, 04:03 PM	My campaign calls for the Players to be captured in our next meet, I've already decided that that the enemies weapons will just be a special "stun" damage type that will just fully heal when they next wake up, but one of my characters is taking leadership and having halfing were-cats, So I'm trying to figure out how to handle them. (the enemy is un-aware of magic, so they will either think they are just cats, or midgets.)
iserith 04-14-08, 04:08 PM	My campaign calls for the Players to be captured in our next meet, I've already decided that that the enemies weapons will just be a special "stun" damage type that will just fully heal when they next wake up, but one of my characters is taking leadership and having halfing were-cats, So I'm trying to figure out how to handle them. (the enemy is un-aware of magic, so they will either think they are just cats, or midgets.) Use a poison like oil of taggit in the PCs' food. Even halfling were-cats (whatever those are) need to eat, I presume. (Poison, DMG 296) Then jump them with fighter/rogues wielding nets and saps in case anyone makes the save.
Doomsought 04-14-08, 04:14 PM	No, the PC's will be outnumbered by enemies with stun guns and grenades basically. my real problem is how to play the cats.
GoriceXII 04-14-08, 06:26 PM	Cats tend to see well, hear well and to use whiskers to sense motion or obstacles in the dark. They tend to be a little jumpy. Cats use a 'hit and run' style of attack; they like to complely overwhelm an opponent or avoid them. They don't hesitate to move for cover if they think they're outmatched or don't know what they're up against. Cats are curious but not stupid.
CrimsonDeath 04-14-08, 07:19 PM	Are these Tibbits? Or actual lycanthropes? Either way, Followers are NPCs, which means they're technically under your control. You could have them shift into cat form and retreat, with the intention of trailing the bad guys and rescuing their Leader later.
Doomsought 04-14-08, 07:23 PM	Tibbits. I was thinking of something like that, but they might get hit by the AOE's and I'm wondering what to do about that.
CrimsonDeath 04-14-08, 07:55 PM	Umm... They die or get taken prisoner too?
Highspade 04-14-08, 11:29 PM	Get them train tickets
UberDog 04-15-08, 01:56 AM	I think you need to make sure that whatever you do, you don't railroad the PCs into being captured. You need to set the trap, if possible, in such a way that their old habits get them in trouble. If your player relies on his leadership and his werecats maybe he finds that the opposing force has the equivalent of werecat nip and lures his cats off into the trap itself. Your brave player, shouting that his werecats lead the way will walk the rest of the party into the trap. You can honestly say that the PCs got themselves into trouble simply because they were predictable. The important thing, IMO, is to get them where you want them to be without them feeling that you cheated somehow. Give them a chance to escape and have it lead back to capture, dangle the carrot before them that it is possible to get out when you know it isn't. I just wrote an adventure in which the PC's are part of a caravan that gets whacked at the beginning and they loose all their possession to thieves who leave them in a desert to die. But the players may figure a way out of it and I have other things down the road to hook them back in. Plus, most players are pretty predictable, if they see a combat, they'll fight. They won't flee until it's too damn late. That's what players do, and we love them for it.
Dragonsblood 04-15-08, 02:45 AM	In case you want to steer clear of DM fiat, make the weapons have the merciful enhancement. It adds 1d6 untyped damage and makes all weapon damage subdual. Instead of stun guns and grenades (is this even DnD?), make the bad guys wield +1 merciful longbows. Another idea that worked really well for me recently is pairing greater barghasts with heavy hitters (via power attack or sneak attack). Greater barghasts have invisibility sphere at will (as well as mass bulls strength and other nice SLAs). Put the hitters next to a PC and they each get a free wack while invisibile. The greater barghast delays until after the hitters, who turns them invisible again before the PCs can react. Rinse and repeat. It's not unbeatable, but if you can ambush them quick enough it can be pretty damn effective. And they're a bargain at only CR 5 each.
White_Whale 04-15-08, 03:43 AM	Get them train tickets :heehee Seriously, though, you need a damn good reason for pulling this on your players if you're leaving them no ways to escape. As a player I'd be pretty upset if my DM kept on doing things like this. Also, there is a fair chance that the players come up with ways to escape the encounter which you have not thought of. (invisibility, fly, shapechange, etc) What do you do then?
IceFractal 04-15-08, 04:52 AM	My campaign calls for the Players to be captured in our next meet,And here's where the problem is. While this is not necessarily a disaster waiting to happen, it is certainly something you have to approach with care. You might assume that since the heroes getting captured is not uncommon in books/movies/etc, it would work easily enough into a game. But it won't. Why? Because players hate getting captured, with a fury like a thousand suns. This is even true in games like Champions, where getting captured so you can hear the supervillain's diabolical plan is a staple of the genre. So, first things first, what will happen as a result of this capture? If it's anything seriously bad, including but not limited to: * Losing their equipment (permanently). * Getting a geas or similar effect. * Getting tortured/demon-grafted/cursed/whatever. * Being stuck as prisoners for a long time. ... Then they will be vengeful. And not just at the BBEG, but at you, the DM. Quite possibly moreso than if you just TPKed them. So don't go there, if you value the campaign. Second, be prepared for a hard time in the actual capturing. Luckily, you're plan involves a straight-out attack instead of something like the guards asking them to surrender - this simplifies matters greatly. Still, there are some things to watch out for: * If they legitimately escape capture, don't railroad it. Just let them escape ... for now! Send another ambush later - you have an unlimited supply. * It's possible that some of the PCs will be captured and others will escape. That's probably the trickiest situation, so figure out ahead of time how you'll reunite the party and how to split focus without leaving half the players twiddling their thumbs the whole game. * It's possible to legitimately deal entirely non-lethal damage: Merciful weapons, and the Nonlethal Substitution metamagic feat. You may want to use these, just to nip any rules argument in the bud. Third, in some cases, the direct approach can work. If the players trust you, and that trust is not misplaced (see first point, above), then just laying your cards on the table can get your capture-plot rolling without any resentment and without dragging things out too long. Tell the players you've got a great idea for the campaign, but it requires them being captured. If they get on board with the idea, you can play the actual capture out in narrative, and get straight to the good stuff.
iserith 04-15-08, 09:36 AM	And here's where the problem is. While this is not necessarily a disaster waiting to happen, it is certainly something you have to approach with care. You might assume that since the heroes getting captured is not uncommon in books/movies/etc, it would work easily enough into a game. But it won't. Why? Because players hate getting captured, with a fury like a thousand suns. This is even true in games like Champions, where getting captured so you can hear the supervillain's diabolical plan is a staple of the genre. I disagree. Provided it is done properly, good players see this as an opportunity to build on the story, not railroading to get rid of loot. If they pitch a fit, they obviously don't trust that their DM has their fun in mind, but that's another matter entirely (and unfortunate). So, first things first, what will happen as a result of this capture? If it's anything seriously bad, including but not limited to: * Losing their equipment (permanently). * Getting a geas or similar effect. * Getting tortured/demon-grafted/cursed/whatever. * Being stuck as prisoners for a long time. ... Then they will be vengeful. And not just at the BBEG, but at you, the DM. Quite possibly moreso than if you just TPKed them. So don't go there, if you value the campaign. I would add that you need to come up with a believable reason for a wizard to at least get his spellbook back at some point during the adventure. As far as I'm concerned, everyone else can lose all their stuff. They can still function without it (just not optimally). A wizard without his spellbook will be one bored player. Frankly I'm glad that 4e is taking emphasis away from equipment (or so I've heard). Second, be prepared for a hard time in the actual capturing. Luckily, you're plan involves a straight-out attack instead of something like the guards asking them to surrender - this simplifies matters greatly. Still, there are some things to watch out for: * If they legitimately escape capture, don't railroad it. Just let them escape ... for now! Send another ambush later - you have an unlimited supply. * It's possible that some of the PCs will be captured and others will escape. That's probably the trickiest situation, so figure out ahead of time how you'll reunite the party and how to split focus without leaving half the players twiddling their thumbs the whole game. * It's possible to legitimately deal entirely non-lethal damage: Merciful weapons, and the Nonlethal Substitution metamagic feat. You may want to use these, just to nip any rules argument in the bud. In a recent 1st-level adventure I wrote and playtested last Saturday, I poisoned my players (0/unconsciousness) and then had two rogues come in swinging saps. The PCs all made their saves (damn!) and then gave my rogues a beating. But I wrote the scene such that it could go either way without any major impact on the events that followed. This is something to consider when devising the encounter. Third, in some cases, the direct approach can work. If the players trust you, and that trust is not misplaced (see first point, above), then just laying your cards on the table can get your capture-plot rolling without any resentment and without dragging things out too long. Tell the players you've got a great idea for the campaign, but it requires them being captured. If they get on board with the idea, you can play the actual capture out in narrative, and get straight to the good stuff. Agreed. Suspension of disbelief when the encounter actually occurs is easy for good players.
danielinthewolvesden 04-15-08, 01:13 PM	My campaign calls for the Players to be captured in our next meet,) This is a bad idea. It can work if you trust your PLAYERS and get them OOC to buy into it. If you do not there are many things that can go wrong (esp by the mid-levels, where these PC's apparently are): The PC's win Some of them get away. Some die or commit suicide. The PLAYERS walk out DM's come by here all the time and ask how to do this... or bewail the fact that they tried it and it went wrong. Often both.:P This is never done well in the middle of a campaign. If you just have to do it, have it be the campaign starter "You all wake up, having been captured....". IceFractal is quite correct- this often is far more resented than a TPK. And the the idea of "My campaign calls for the Players to be captured in our next meet..." is dangerous thinking and smells a LOT like rairoading.