Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Paradisio 11-23-05, 04:28 PM	One of my players insists that his characters name should be Carl Johnson (from grand theft auto)... in Faerun. He even has it in his backstory that his mother was murdered. And he won't change it, and when I told him it ruined the feel of the game he said that saying that is an attack on his character and ability to play and it was just a shoutout. After I insisted he changed it, he quit. What the hell? Am I wrong here or am I just not understanding?
Malruhn 11-23-05, 04:31 PM	No, you DON'T understand. He is a childish twit that MUST control the game. Once you get that through your thick skull, you will do just fine with YOU in HIS campaign. Outside of that, I think the split was a good idea. (I hope I don't need to tell you that there is a lot of sarcasm used above!)
Sulaco 11-23-05, 04:34 PM	One of my players insists that his characters name should be Carl Johnson (from grand theft auto)... in Faerun. He even has it in his backstory that his mother was murdered. And he won't change it, and when I told him it ruined the feel of the game he said that saying that is an attack on his character and ability to play and it was just a shoutout. After I insisted he changed it, he quit. What the hell? Am I wrong here or am I just not understanding? What's the problem? He is a goof and now you don't have to deal with him. Sounds like a clear win to me.
Fixxxer 11-23-05, 04:47 PM	What's the problem? He is a goof and now you don't have to deal with him. Sounds like a clear win to me. Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Vestigial_Thumb 11-23-05, 04:49 PM	What's the problem? He is a goof and now you don't have to deal with him. Sounds like a clear win to me. That's true! The player is a dumbass.
20goingon1232 11-23-05, 05:05 PM	One of my players insists that his characters name should be Carl Johnson (from grand theft auto)... in Faerun. He even has it in his backstory that his mother was murdered. And he won't change it, and when I told him it ruined the feel of the game he said that saying that is an attack on his character and ability to play and it was just a shoutout. After I insisted he changed it, he quit. What the hell? Am I wrong here or am I just not understanding? Have him shot to pieces by a bunch of goons with heavy repeating crossbows in an open-topped wagon pulled by 6 horses, travelling at high speed. Have the other players witness it and then have the local guard ask the other PCs to investigate the ride by shooting. Instant plot hook, reason for party to get together, and get rid of a dumbass PC all at the same time. Sounds good to me. Watching his face as it unfolds is just a bonus.
q'afuu 11-23-05, 05:18 PM	His reasons might be somewhat misguided, but what's wrong with Carl Johnson as a name in Faerûn (for a human at least)? Carl is perfectly acceptable, and the -son naming habit is entirely traditional in some parts.
Fixxxer 11-23-05, 05:20 PM	His reasons might be somewhat misguided, but what's wrong with Carl Johnson as a name in Faerûn (for a human at least)? Carl is perfectly acceptable, and the -son naming habit is entirely traditional in some parts. I think the point was that this player is trying to create a carbon copy of a personality that simply doesn't fit in the DM's game.
q'afuu 11-23-05, 05:24 PM	Being named Carl Johnson and having a murdered mother is hardly enough to constitute a carbon copy, and it certainly doesn't make him not fit in in a fantasy setting. I just wanted to point out that the DM didn't mention anything that's convincing me there's a real problem here.
Szat 11-23-05, 05:25 PM	Uhhhhh....relate to me again what we do when we adventure in a D&D world? 1. Form group of likeminded individuals 2. Arm yourselves 3. Assault stronghold of perceived BBEG who also happens to have a horde of treasure which is purely coincidental 4. Beat BBEG mercilessly and take all of his stuff 5. Return to town with packs bulging with shwag and spend it on frivolity and useless magic items like "Rods of Extension" 6. Repeat steps 1-5 until you can buy the nightclub....I mean....Inn. Sounds like GTA to me. Now I, of course, agree that the character was unoriginal and silly in naming his character that, it ruins the feel. But the personality type fits perfectly into D&D.
Fixxxer 11-23-05, 05:29 PM	Being named Carl Johnson and having a murdered mother is hardly enough to constitute a carbon copy, and it certainly doesn't make him not fit in in a fantasy setting. I just wanted to point out that the DM didn't mention anything that's convincing me there's a real problem here. The fact of the matter is that the DM thought it was a problem, which makes it a problem.
q'afuu 11-23-05, 05:31 PM	And showing him that he might not have an entirely accurate perception of the situation might solve this problem. ;)
Toran_A_Sunder 11-23-05, 05:32 PM	Sounds like the guy is a puts. He was intentionally being a puts. Regardless about how well someone can argee that that character fits into D&D, YOU dont feel he does. YOUR call. YOUR the DM. You're better off without him. I would have made the same call.
Paradisio 11-23-05, 06:08 PM	Here, I am letting both sides have at this. I told the people in my group to come here. if you want to see the thread in question go here: http://paradisio15.proboards75.com/index.cgi?board=creation&action=display&thread=1132778744&page=1
Ekranoplan 11-23-05, 06:12 PM	I would say there is nothing wrong with having the name Carl Johnson. However, I do have a problem with the fact that the name was taken from GTA. Suspose it was some other generic name, like Phil Stevens, then I would really have no problem with that. Of course, I would never be caught dead in a gaming group that could not handle the introduction of a name like that.
Paradisio 11-23-05, 06:19 PM	Had he not copied a grand theft auto character, I probably would have allowed the name. But the point is, he did, and I believe that made it inappropriate. And the fact that he wouldn't change it just made the situation worse, and I don't understand why he wouldn't.
Rathje 11-23-05, 06:21 PM	Reading the thread you've linked, I'd have done the same thing. That or let it begin and allow it to fizzle and die very quickly. I'm not too fond of the Sabin, either. Just mentioning.
b5201 11-23-05, 06:24 PM	Why would you play dnd if you like gta so much. He should try d20 modern.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 11-23-05, 07:19 PM	To be honest, if I were the player, I would have quit your game too. In fact seeing as how that was a play by post, I would have quit your game after just witnessing that exchange. There is no way I would ever play under a DM who has controll issues like yours. You acted very childish. D&D is a cooperative game between players and the DM. You have no right to dictate their names to them. That isn't DM rule zero, DM rule zero is changing a rule or mechanic to better suit your game. What you did was tell the player what his character was to be called, and went on a powertrip when he refused. Being the DM does not give you license to lord it over your PCs in a Lord of the Flies ego trip. You seriously dropped the ball on that one, and you owe your player an apology. I will also post this on the message board linked above.
Paradisio 11-23-05, 07:22 PM	Ok TPK, I allow carl johnson, 2PAC, obi-won ton, and dick clark. Ok so now my players go around acting like gangster jedi celebrating christmas instead of playing. And I have no campaign. Sorry, but allowing Carl Johnson wannabe is just giving him permission to act like a gangster in the campaign, which doesn't fit at all.
MinusInnocence 11-23-05, 07:41 PM	Ok TPK, I allow carl johnson, 2PAC, obi-won ton, and dick clark. Ok so now my players go around acting like gangster jedi celebrating christmas instead of playing. And I have no campaign. Sorry, but allowing Carl Johnson wannabe is just giving him permission to act like a gangster in the campaign, which doesn't fit at all.Actually, CJ is a gangsta, not a gangster. Anyway, I tend to become agitated when people pull something cheesy like this. It hasn't happened in years because I only play with close friends, and we're all pretty comfortable with each other and know what's acceptable and what isn't. The rule of thumb in our group is you can shamelessly mine for inspiration in novels, movies, comic books, TV shows, music videos, video games, whatever... but essentially transplanting a character from the source of inspiration into D&D (perhaps with some minor cosmetic changes) is a no-go. The former shows an aptitude for taking a time-honored cliche and giving it one's own personal interpretation. The latter is basically intellectual theft.
Paradisio 11-23-05, 07:43 PM	And I fail to see how I don't have the right. Sorry, I interpret rule 0 as "I make the rules." Perhaps thats a bit power trippy, but I don't spend time on this campaign for a player to **** it away. The name isn't even the problem, the problem is he copied the character, even the backstory. If it had just been the name, then I probably would have let it go. But instead I insisted on him just changing the name (since the players are always so apprehensive about anything about backstory.) Sorry, I don't see how any DM can realistically allow this kind of behavior. I'm still inexperienced, but It just doesn't seem right. Every campaign I have has been ruined by players overstepping their bounds and me not pushing back, and I don't want it to happen again (and its the same group every time, including this time.)
20goingon1232 11-23-05, 08:02 PM	And I fail to see how I don't have the right. Sorry, I interpret rule 0 as "I make the rules." Perhaps thats a bit power trippy, but I don't spend time on this campaign for a player to **** it away. The name isn't even the problem, the problem is he copied the character, even the backstory. If it had just been the name, then I probably would have let it go. But instead I insisted on him just changing the name (since the players are always so apprehensive about anything about backstory.) Sorry, I don't see how any DM can realistically allow this kind of behavior. I'm still inexperienced, but It just doesn't seem right. Every campaign I have has been ruined by players overstepping their bounds and me not pushing back, and I don't want it to happen again (and its the same group every time, including this time.) You need to learn to put your foot down ans say "No", NOT push back. There is a slight difference between the two. Saying that you, as DM, have the right to arbitrarily pimp-slap players because you spent time on the project is crossing the line. Note that while I supported your decision to mock the player (he deserved it, IMO), I do not support your above statement.
WayneTheGame 11-23-05, 08:21 PM	Personally, I fail to see the problem. The backstory of having your mother be murdered wasn't invented by GTA. I don't see anything wrong with a player taking a common enough background from a game/movie/anime/whatever. My girlfriend was thinking of basing a character on Duo Maxwell from Gundam Wing, backstory and all, and even calling her character Duette; is THAT wrong, too, since she would be "copying" someone else's background? I would have just asked that he change the name to something a little more fantasy-ish to fit in with the setting. Granted, he was well within his rights to quit, but I think you're making too big a deal about his background being taken from another source.
DogOnWheels 11-23-05, 08:46 PM	I once had a guy who wanted to play a character out of a Phantasy Star game. It didn't fit & I told him as much. Of course, I have a surfeit of players so it's not a problem to drop one yahoo...call me a facsist. One bad apple (DM or PC) can ruin a game. Throw then out. Start your own game. Fix it.
OctoberRaven 11-23-05, 09:41 PM	There was nothing wrong with just what the DM said... Now, if this Carl Johnson started talking like the one in GTA:SA then we have a legit problem. Off topic here, but the Astral Deva in the MM has cornrows. Just made me think of that for some reason.
nissir2000 11-23-05, 10:22 PM	And I just wanted him to change it, sorry if you can't follow DM rule 0 then you can leave. It's my world, and that name isn't appropriate. My 3 cents take them or leave them (I give you more bang for your buck) Cent #1 The fact that the player wouldn't change something as simple as a name means that they didn't have a real desire to put forth much effort into the game in the first place. Having a nod or two to a character from a book, movie, or in this case, a video game is 100% ok, such as the name or the background. Basing a character 100% on a ripped off character screams of a lack of creativity, which makes for a bad player as well. Cent #2 The quote above is from the "Master of Dungeons" himself, and it says a lot to me. If you want to powertrip knock yourself out, but don't be surprised when you are DMing for your grandmother's cats because no one wants to play with you. Cent #3 If two people couldn't compromise enough on a character's name, neither one of them has the social development needed to stand in line at the DMV, let alone play in a socialy complex game like D&D. You both should play less games and work on those social skills.
Paradisio 11-23-05, 10:50 PM	Ok then, since apparently im a nitwit with no social skills, what should I have done? Give him a pistol, a ho and a BMW? That is what he is going to want if he is Carl Johnson. Why does he need to give a shoutout? Should I let players be named Goku "CUZ I like teh DBZ!"? Sorry I am running a medieval fantasy game, not a modern D20 game set in LA, and most of my players like that.
feartheinvinceblehamster 11-23-05, 11:00 PM	I read the thread. You are a moron. I would've slapped you and flipped you off, then never spoke to you again.
Paradisio 11-23-05, 11:07 PM	Can someone tell me what I did wrong without insulting me? I will apologize to the guy, but here is my rationale: 1. The player is copying a video game character, once he finds out that he can't completely copy the character. He leaves, wasting the past several month of his enjoyment. 2. I disallow the character based on the DMG saying the Dm makes the rules and "The DM defines the game." Carl Johnson is not an appropriate fantasy/farrunian name as far as I can tell. This part is opinion, but I feel as the DM I have the say. 3. The player refuses to back himself up and instead has his brother do it, the only argument he can present is "its a shoutout." My mastery of the vanacular isn't great for the meaning of that word, but I don't think D&D is an appropriate place for shoutouts. 4. I don't like character copies, I quit city of heroes because of 100s of Gokus and X-Men clones. What is wrong with being original? Ok maybe it was a bit of a power trip but by the time I wrote, "And I just wanted him to change it, sorry if you can't follow DM rule 0 then you can leave. It's my world, and that name isn't appropriate." I was so angry I was about to punch myself in the face at his stubborness.
MistWolf 11-23-05, 11:13 PM	Coming from both sides of the fence- as a player and a referree- Those who are bashing the player for wanting to play this Carl Johnson character are in the wrong. The player is free to create any character he wishes just as the DM is free to create any world he wishes. In truth, if you had no idea what was in GTA, you would have said "Okay, that's do-able." Just from reading the posts in this thread (not the linked posts though), both the player and the DM share responsibility for any immature actions stemming from this incident. But the DM as the DM carries a greater share because he is the DM. The DM is the referree and should be fair. In this case, the DM was not fair. I believe it's in the DMs Guide (correct me if I'm wrong) that it's not the DMs job to tell the player "No you can't do that!" It's your job to say, "Yes, you can try that, however....." If a player came to me with Carl Johnson with a dead mom and I knew it was from GTA, I would have asked, "All right, how does this fit into the campaign?" If the player responded with "He'll carry an RPG, steal cars and have them re-upolstered in Tijauna" then I would have asked him to change the character, or save this one for another campaign and roll up something more appropriate. But, Carl Johnson who has a dead mom and steals thouroughbred horses from aristocrats and carries a repeating crossbow with exploding bolts that's doable! A good DM would not have told him to rename the character. That's unimportant to the campaign. Heck, after all the fanciful, flowery and descriptive names characters have, it's actually refreshing to see someone give their high fantasy character such an ordinary name- it was the name that caught my eye. Note that I speak of responsibility, not blame, not fault. This is a problem that has sprung up due to inexperience. My suggestion to the DM is to swallow his pride, step up to the plate as an adult and take another look at the situation. Apologize to your player, then find a way to set down and work the character into the campaign keeping the flavor the player wants. If your players are strutting around like gangstas showing disrespect, have the NPCs react accordingly. A good DM will bring his players around through role playing, and will do so fairly. If I saw a DM fight with a player over something as trivial as an ordinary name, I'd consider walking out. Think on it
On_the_wings_of_TPK 11-23-05, 11:14 PM	Ok TPK, I allow carl johnson, 2PAC, obi-won ton, and dick clark." What is in a name? It is neither hand nor foot, nor any other part of a man A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet." - William Shakespeare Ok so now my players go around acting like gangster jedi celebrating christmas instead of playing. And I have no campaign. Sorry, but allowing Carl Johnson wannabe is just giving him permission to act like a gangster in the campaign, which doesn't fit at all. What makes you say that? Just because the player has the name of a video game character does not neccessarily mean that he will play the character's personality exactly. The player even promised you that he wouldn't. Yet instead of trusting him or even giving him a chance, you ruled that he could not have the name. Don't tell me your concerned about the game being ruined, you already ruined it for one of your players. D&D is supposed to be fun for everyone, not just you. And I fail to see how I don't have the right. Sorry, I interpret rule 0 as "I make the rules." Perhaps thats a bit power trippy, but I don't spend time on this campaign for a player to **** it away. Rule zero is not "I make the rules!" That is a DM on a power trip acting shamefully like a child. Rule zero, first off, is a last resort, and should be used only as such. Secondly, it is "you make the rules". It is your ability to change mechanics to better suit your game. A player character's name is not a mechanic. The name isn't even the problem, the problem is he copied the character, even the backstory. If it had just been the name, then I probably would have let it go. But instead I insisted on him just changing the name (since the players are always so apprehensive about anything about backstory.) Carl Johnson is hardly the first character to have his mother murdered. And I really hope that you don't expect your players to be original all the time, every time. Is everything in D&D by WotC original? Did Gary Gygax invent elves? Who came up with halflings? Have you ever noticed how Mulhorand bears a striking resemblance to ancient Egypt? What would you say if I wanted to play an orphaned elf who was raised by halflings in a forest? The character I want to play went on a quest in the ancient forest to find a powerful magical sword. It was my destiny to wield the sword, and I realised that destiny when I pulled it from the stone that it was resting in. I fight with a large steel sheild and the sword is a +1 mighty cleaving bastard sword. I have levels of fighter, and have taken the Whirlwind Attack feats. Then I started to level as a paladin, and I am now on a quest to defeat a powerful sorcerer who has kidnapped the woman who destined to be my wife. Is that concept viable in D&D? What if the characters name was Link? Sometimes we want to play that cool character we saw in the movies/video games/novels/etc. There is nothing wrong with this. It will not disrupt game play as long the player realizes their character is not the video game character and most likely will not develop the same way. If a "borrowed" character doesn't work, then the problem is the player and not the character.
WayneTheGame 11-23-05, 11:15 PM	Well, as I said you DIDN'T really do anything wrong.. I think you're being a bit harsh just because he wanted to base a character on a videogame (although if he had asked for guns or a BMW or a bunch of ho's I would have slapped him silly). As I stated above, my girlfriend wants to do something similar in my game (she is also a new D&D player); if you were the DM would you think thats a problem? I completely agree with you about trying to be original, but I've based my fair share of characters on things I've read/watched/played since I have a baseline to act towards as far as mannerisms and actions. I think the problem was that the player was unwilling to even change his name (which would be a reasonably request at any rate) and from there it sort of broke down. You didn't do anything WRONG, per se.
Paradisio 11-23-05, 11:26 PM	"" What is in a name? It is neither hand nor foot, nor any other part of a man A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet." - William Shakespeare While I love shakespear, this really works both ways in this situation. While this is an online campaign, I know everyone of these players in real life. I think I have insight into their character that people on this forum do not have. I hate to say it, but I believe losing one player is worth keeping the game, perhaps this is wrong. But If everyone stops having fun because of one player, then I think there is a problem. But in an online campaign I think I am trying to overcompensate for lack flexibility in general and trying to forsee problems arising, unlike in a real campaign where I deal with them as they arrive. But I admitted to the player I was wrong and sent him an apology. Honestly, would I have allowed what you said with the name Link? No. I wouldn't allow Cloud Strife either, I don't see why someone would do that. Perhaps I am a mentally handicapped, I have had no inclination ever to copy a character and play it in D&D. A name should signify your character in my opinion, and set him apart. I can live with being wrong, but I would still prefer people be original in an age where people are trying to be the same.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 11-23-05, 11:28 PM	Well, as I said you DIDN'T really do anything wrong.. I think you're being a bit harsh just because he wanted to base a character on a videogame (although if he had asked for guns or a BMW or a bunch of ho's I would have slapped him silly). As I stated above, my girlfriend wants to do something similar in my game (she is also a new D&D player); if you were the DM would you think thats a problem? But thats just it, the player in question did not ask for a BFG, or a BMW, or a ho. All he wanted was to have the name of Carl Johnson, and to have his mother murdered in his back storie. Niether of those requests is unreasonable. Demanding that a player change theri characters name/concept for no other reason then, "I'm the DM my game my rules" is unreasonable.
MistWolf 11-23-05, 11:40 PM	I don't see how "Carl Johnson" will cause you to lose the game. You must let folks take existing characters and adapt them to how they want to play them. Even use the names. Each player must find inspiration in their own way. When we were kids, we didn't put on our towel capes and leap off the dresser as "Yalthrago SplinterHand" we were Batman or Superman or Wonder Woman. Mom didn't poke her head in and holler at us to take another name because that one isn't original- she hollered at us for breaking the furniture. From that beginning, we grow our imaginations until we can create "Yalthrago Splinterhand, the halfing monk from Czeckoslavokia who smashes cinderblocks with his fists!" Instead of deriding your player for "not coming up with something original" help him along. Besides, if you were truthful with yourself, you'd realize you're jealous because he came up with it first! :D
On_the_wings_of_TPK 11-23-05, 11:41 PM	But I admitted to the player I was wrong and sent him an apology.It takes a lot of courage to admit when you have made a mistake in handling a situation. I respect you for doing the right thing and apologizing to your player. Honestly, would I have allowed what you said with the name Link? No. I wouldn't allow Cloud Strife either, I don't see why someone would do that. Perhaps I am a mentally handicapped, I have had no inclination ever to copy a character and play it in D&D. A name should signify your character in my opinion, and set him apart. I can live with being wrong, but I would still prefer people be original in an age where people are trying to be the same. You are not mentally handicapped. If you had explained this to the player at the very beginning you may have ended up one player stronger then you are now. This is a perfectly reasonable opinion that I can respect and understand. I would certainly abide by it if it were a houserule of a DM of mine. However, you must also acknowledge that not everyone will share that opinion. Other people may enjoy playing out their fantasies of being someone they are not. And that is perfectly okay as well. For them it is fun to play something out of a video game. The important thing to bear in mind is make sure that no one's fun comes at the expense of someone else's.
rkr1970 11-24-05, 01:27 AM	You should have mentioned, in passing, that you would prefer a more "fearunian" name, then pointed out the obvious problems with his character, such as the weapon choice, bonus language, and the COHORT he tried to slime past you as a "best friend" (unless that was another player's character, which wasn't how it sounded). If he refused to address any of these issues, then HE was the problem. If he address all but the name, you should have asked him why THAT name. "It's a shoutout", "That means that you're hoping that CJ see's your character? He's fictional. What do you mean?" Then you could have gotten to the core of the problem, his insistance on that name vs. your reluctance to allow it. You never asked him why CJ, what he meant by a shoutout, or even ask him to open the lines of communication. I personally have no problem with you saying "No. Pick another name. That doesn't fit the setting". It's more a question of how you did it. In the future, try this. Mention that you dislike the choice a player has made, then ask why they made it. Doesn't matter if it's name, weapon, mount type, whatever... After they explain their "why", not say it's because of BLAH, but explain it so you have a grasp of what they are trying to do here, then you explain your "why not". Again, a slightly detailed explaination, not a two second overview. Then see if the two of you can reach an agreement, since you will now be in a position to understand the other person's perspective. Sometimes, just the explaining is enough. If the explainations go something like "I thought it would sound cool" vs. "I'm going for a whole celtic theme for humans, gaelic for gnomes, etc. Here's a list of several thousand celtic names. Would you please look it over and see if there's anything there you think is cool", most players I know would at least TRY to accomodate the DM. And that may be what you wanted, but you didn't make it SOUND like that. And that's why so many people are coming down on you. If you had explained to him WHY you objected to the name, then explain to him what guidelines you would prefer, and finally ask him for more details on why he wanted THAT name, after which he started acting like a jerk, THEN most of us would have sided with you. Remember, D&D is a game of creative people coming together to share their individual creative thoughts in a structured manner. When you tell someone that their creative thought is unacceptable to you, the very least they deserve is an explaination. How would you feel if players asked what color the sky was in your campaign, considered whatever answer you gave them, and they turned around and left, saying it wasn't good enough? You would sit there wondering why not and who really cares what color the sky is when we play. You say this name isn't "good enough", and the player sits there and says "why" and "who cares what we call him". Does this long winded post explain why there are gouts of flame in your general direction??
hmmmm 11-24-05, 01:33 AM	i had a player like that he wanted to name his guy G man(from half-life 2), and that didnt work at all. i let him play but the other playes got annoyed with how he would make his voice sound and that he kept saying "i pull out my m-16.."or that he would make up his own spells (i didnt let him get away with that but it took time)so after about 1 hour of playing they kiddnapped him (his character) and brought him to a field where they beat the tar out of him a took all his stuff and chained him to a tree. he chose normal names after that. and the game went on normally.
Paradisio 11-24-05, 01:33 AM	Yes, I guess I assumed that the answer to "Why can't I use that name?" was pretty obvious and that he was going out of his way to make trouble. Anyways, I sent him an apology regardless, and we will see how his character actually acts in due time if he decides to return. The problem is the usual "why?" is answered with a "Just cuz" usually, and i am usually at a loss of what to say after that.
hmmmm 11-24-05, 01:41 AM	you should have just let him play but then make his PC's life a living hell. first you could blaim all the problems that the party is facing on him. like if they fight a hard monster say it was becasue he stepped on a creaky stair and you can do that until the party hates that character and kills it. then say you have to make a completaly new one no using anything from the old character. it works.
rkr1970 11-24-05, 02:02 AM	Yes, I guess I assumed that the answer to "Why can't I use that name?" was pretty obvious and that he was going out of his way to make trouble. Anyways, I sent him an apology regardless, and we will see how his character actually acts in due time if he decides to return. The problem is the usual "why?" is answered with a "Just cuz" usually, and i am usually at a loss of what to say after that. You come back with YOUR "why", then ask if they understand. Then if they STILL have a problem changing, they will almost have to give you better than "Just Cuz".
SuperTKO 11-24-05, 03:05 AM	Coming from both experience of the DM and Player on this topic, I figured I might as well throw in my two cents. I beleive the DM had the right to not allow the name or the back-story. Just because he's the DM, he IS the final Artributer of the rules. Not the PCs. He is the one spending time coming up with encounters, making NPC's, etc, not the players. So the DM, therefore has the right to choose to Disallow something if he see's it unfit. I played in a game one time campaign where me and a friend decided to make Monks. He took Monk into Sacred Fist and I took Monk into Enlightened Fist. I had a standard character backstory built up. A Monk raised in a Monistery that was trained to use his fist, but eventually came to terms with his Dragon Heritage and started integrating them into the "Ultimate Science". (Could be Feng Shui!). I liked the character concept I had, especially since I came up with it in such a short time. My Friend, however, came up with his backstory from the Geto Boys Song "Damn it feels good to be a Gansta". His Monk, "Gilly Boy" was from the "Seedy Side" of the Church, 'feeding the poor and helping out with thier bills', but in the inside, he's making 'dills' (deals). We eventually meet up, and while I'm really ampped about this quest put before us, all he can do is talk about how he is a "Real, Gansta ***** n*gg*". It was to the point where he was detracting from the game. I've made a carbon copy of a character before too. I've pretty much made Link. A Fighter 6/Ranger 4 for a game as an NPC. I even had it story wise where he lost his tounge, and can only communicate in War Cries. However, I did at least change his name. Silvess Cinadel. And while he was a direct Rip-off, he didn't detract to the flavor of the game, he added to it. Even gave the NPC's a Glass Bottle for a Thank you. You see, there a difference between a carbon copy and a rip-off. If Carl Johnson would of been in the game, talking like a gansta, wanting to change his clothing style to his in game persona, and asked girls into the Inn for some "Hot Coffee", then it would of probably became a problem, because the other PC's would of taken notice and would of been like "wow, that's so unoriginal" and would of ruined thier experence. However, if he would of probably changed his name, and ran Carl Johnson like a Fighter who lost his mother to a raid of Orcs, now he's taken the blade and is out for revenge, it would of been fine. From the sounds of it though, by not even wanting to change his name, he was going toward the Former. I agree with the DM on this Case. He had the right to do so, because it would of been a distraction, and the player could of easily made up his own story, instead of wanting to emulate someone in D&D terms.
Corinthians 11-24-05, 06:44 AM	But thats just it, the player in question did not ask for a BFG, or a BMW, or a ho. All he wanted was to have the name of Carl Johnson, and to have his mother murdered in his back storie. Niether of those requests is unreasonable. Demanding that a player change theri characters name/concept for no other reason then, "I'm the DM my game my rules" is unreasonable. As soon as he gives in and lets him use the character name, the character will then emulate all aspects of this kids favorite video game, next he'll be demanding to know why he can't go up to people on the street and beat them down for no particular reason without repurcussion. Shout out my ass, if he wants to play his favorite video game character, he can go plop down in front of the TV. And you'd be pretty naive to think that it's all just a name, and it wouldn't be taken any further. There's a guy we play with who has tried to take the name Heywood Jablowme more than once, are you saying that this disregard for any amount of seriousness the DM and other players wish to have when playing is reasonable?
Flushpuppie 11-24-05, 07:33 AM	I fully agree with Paradisio: he is the DM and no-one else. If somebody doesn't accept the rules he sets, that person is wrong, not Paradisio. You've got my backup!
UltimateReality 11-24-05, 07:52 AM	And you'd be pretty naive to think that it's all just a name, and it wouldn't be taken any further.Not being one to model my characters after pre-existing historical or fictional figures, I wouldn't know. I do know other members of our group do, however, and I don't think it disrupts gameplay. (The operative word, of course, is "model", as in, "not carbon copy".) They even share the name, sometimes, which I usually don't notice because they're anime fanboys and I don't recognize the series, let alone the character. Oh wait, I did once try to creat Mystra as a level one mortal in a homebrew. I even named her Midnight. (Funnily enough, I ended up being a magic deity too in the end.) By the time I was there, my feats and skills were different, but the end goals are the same. This was the best campaign I've played in, not because I ended up a god, but because the group had a lot of fun along the way, rp was good, exciting battles happened, and we saved the world on multiple occassions. :) a guy we play with who has tried to take the name Heywood Jablowme more than once, are you saying that this disregard for any amount of seriousness the DM and other players wish to have when playing is reasonable?We lived with Dantron, Testi-clese, Sofa Kingrate, Thog & Thogette, Gatsu, Xanadu, Osama Inladen, and so forth for close to two years. The names were the least objectionable part of his characters and roleplaying. This player was present for the entire campaign mentioned above. Ideally, the players respect the DM enough to choose thematically appropriate names, and the DM trusts the players enough not to have to make rules about it. Everyone should be on the same "seriousness" level, and all this should be spelled out in the houserules at the start of the game. One player having fun at the expense of others and the DM is not tolerable and needs to be dealt with. The problem is not the name, it's the attitude the person brings to the table.
MessiahOmega 11-24-05, 07:54 AM	i had the same sort of problem, players using, lets just say "inappropriate names that invalidated the integrety of the game" i said, "look man, can you change those names? were going for a kind of vibe here, and they dont really add to it.." he said "oh........ok" ok, it wsn't that easy, i sat down and explained why funny names were not really what was needed, and we came to an amniable conclusion. thats all.
KJW 11-24-05, 08:09 AM	I think Paradiso had a legitimate problem with the name, but he handled it poorly. First, NEVER QUOTE RULE 0! Seriously, the only time I say "the DM is always right" to my players is when I intend it to be humorous. If you need to say this to back up a decision then you will lose the respect of your players. Authority does not come from rules in books, it has to be earned. To do that you must act fairly and consistently, which means you don't need to quote rules. Second, RESPECT YOUR PLAYERS! If you want the players to respect you as a DM you need to respect them as well. One of my players is a huge Anime fan and took to naming his elf-characters after Anime characters, this gave his elves Japanese names, which was not something I wanted for my campaign world. Still he was a good-roleplayer and when I thought about it, I figured I could work it into my campaign, so now the nobility of one of my elven kingdoms have Japanese names. Third, WORK WITH YOUR PLAYERS! Ok so Carl Johnson does not fit your version of the Realms, I can accept that, in my homebrew that name wouldn't really fit either. Here is what I would have done, first can I just accept it, if the answer is no then I would offer a compromise: Karl Jorinson. Would you have a problem with this name? Probably not as much, and the player, if you explained the reasons, would likely accept this compromise.
feartheinvinceblehamster 11-24-05, 10:15 AM	The DM is always right....Unless their wrong.
Vestigial_Thumb 11-24-05, 10:49 AM	Now that I think about it, disregard my previous post. He doesn't seem like a dumbass as, although the name is blatantly copied, his mother being murdered is a viable backstory. I think you should call him back and see if he still wants to be CJ and let him play him.
q'afuu 11-24-05, 11:00 AM	And you'd be pretty naive to think that it's all just a name, and it wouldn't be taken any further. The thing is, if the name isn't the problem but merely a symptom of a bigger issue, making the player change the name isn't going to solve anything. Much better for the DM to tell the player that he's getting the impression the character will be unsuitable for the campaign, at least if the player is expecting to be able to emulate GTA. A simple explanation that 'pimp' is not going to be a badge of honour and acting 'the gangsta' isn't going to give any street credibility in 'the hood' (mostly because there is no hood), and everyone knows where they stand. If that doesn't suit the player he can bow out, no hard feelings; if the name and the one background fact are the only real similarities between the two CJs (or even if there are more, but they will all be altered to fit a medieval fantasy setting) there isn't any problem to begin with. Really, a simple 'I'm not sure the character you're suggesting will work for the setting but I don't know enough details, could you explain his personality a bit more?' would have been a much better approach.
DogOnWheels 11-24-05, 12:18 PM	I'd really like to see how this all turns out. How about a follow up thread, say "Carl Johnson 2" or something? I feel, that when planning a campaign, the beginning or setup is just as important as the middle & finally the conclusion. Motivation & tone are a lost art. If you know how to run a game & how to integrate something for all of the PCs, then slavish kowtowing to players silly desires isn't a problem, because they want to play in your game. How many posters would dis-allow anime characters, drow elves, dragon PCs, or whatever? It's all about diplomacy & negotiation.
Paradisio 11-24-05, 01:43 PM	DogOnWheels- Trust me, I will be creating many more threads that erupt in flame wars. :D
makeshiftwings 11-24-05, 02:56 PM	Paradisio, I think you are in the right. The names Gandalf, Drizzt Do'Urden, Frodo Baggins, etc., all "fit" into Faerun as well, but that's not really the point. Everyone, including the DM, has a right to say what they want in the game, and if you don't want stupid, unimaginitive names, then that's well within your rights. If this player is willing to throw a fit and quit the game just because you wanted him to come up with an original name, he would almost have certainly thrown a fit and quit about something else later down the road.
Styer 11-24-05, 10:35 PM	While this is an online campaign, I know everyone of these players in real life. I think I have insight into their character that people on this forum do not have. If you feel you have unique insight that allows you to correctly judge the situation while the posters on the forum can't, then what was the point of asking the people on the forum their opinions? I would expect that the people on the forum's "outsider" perspectives might be valuable. I hate to say it, but I believe losing one player is worth keeping the game, perhaps this is wrong. But If everyone stops having fun because of one player, then I think there is a problem. Sure, but I don't see where you've offered any evidence that this guy was going to stop everyone from having fun. It may be that you were right and that you were right because of whatever insight you have from knowing Carl Johnson's would-be player in real life, but that didn't really come through in the thread. Honestly, would I have allowed what you said with the name Link? No. I wouldn't allow Cloud Strife either, I don't see why someone would do that. If someone's a beginner he might do that because it's an easier entryway into roleplaying than starting from scratch. A more experienced player might just think it's an interesting exercise to try to roleplay to a preexisting pattern. Anyone might just like a character concept and want to play it. None of those people are wrong, they just have a different outlook than you do. Perhaps I am a mentally handicapped, I have had no inclination ever to copy a character and play it in D&D. There is nothing new under the sun.
Paradisio 11-24-05, 10:49 PM	Update: Apparently my apology was accepted, and he is going to rejoin.
Board_Rider 11-24-05, 10:56 PM	Is he playing as Carl Johnson? I think ths whole thread is funny because I played alongside a Player whose PC was named "Twinkletoes". Good times.
Paradisio 11-24-05, 10:58 PM	For better or worse, yes. I will say something about it in a constructive manner, but if he decides not to change it, oh well.
Stuu 11-24-05, 11:02 PM	Well, I have to say I’m disappointed. If you don’t think the name fits the campaign he should have changed it. It’s not a power trip to make calls on names if you think they’ll ruin the atmosphere. I’d like to join. My character’s name is Oscar Mayer. When he’s not adventuring he runs a deli…
Paradisio 11-24-05, 11:04 PM	Yes but the way I made the call was in the wrong. While the name is going to bother me, I will get used to it... but if he does start acting like a "gangsta" I don't know how many people will die.
jokem 11-24-05, 11:23 PM	Yes but the way I made the call was in the wrong. While the name is going to bother me, I will get used to it... but if he does start acting like a "gangsta" I don't know how many people will die. It takes a big man to admit he was wrong, and you did. It is clear to me this guy wants to play this modern character, and that is a potential problem. He does need to know he will have to fit this character in to the fantasy world reality and you need to tell him that. He also needs to know that indiscreet acts can land him in trouble. I don't think any GM would be reasonable in telling a player what name his character has, unless the player chose a name like G*D D**M S*N of a B***H. I would probably allow that unless young kids are playing or people sensitive to profanity.
DarknessEternal 11-25-05, 01:51 AM	Humans have names like that. There's nothing wrong with that name. Not every loser in D&D needs to be name Drokmar or Feztable or other queerness. I imagine this would not have been a problem if you'd never heard of GTA.
bartleby42 11-25-05, 02:15 AM	The only problem I have is that DMs veto histories all of the time. We just don't realize what we are doing. PC- "Can I make up a God?" DM- "Nope, were using these." or PC- "Can I be a dragon?" DM *sighs* - "No." For what ever reason DMs limit lots of stuff about charecters. Saying "No, I'm sorry you have to at least change the name of who your coping." Isn't the worst thing in the world. I'm not a big fan of the DM saying I'm right because I said so. But from time to time the hammer has to be brought down during charecter gen, otherwise you'll have a party 48 point buy gestalt half dragons. The complaint isn't about stopping someone from doing something, it's because it dosen't seem that outragous to you. If I knew how much my party would love the concept of Boar Racing, I would never of mentioned it. If he knows his party will go "lol that game is so ub3r!!!" Then ban him quick. I've delt with unexpected fall out from charecter gen and small plot devices. I'm careful now.
Solidcobra 11-25-05, 07:18 AM	"Okay players, gimme a copy of your sheets" *Players hand DM the sheets* "...Haywood Jablome the gnome 'pimp' rogue, Cloud Strife the monkey grip fighter/wizard, Jesus the cleric and Bob Barbarian...lovely. y'know what? screw this, we're playing monopoly" Your choice of name directly shows how serious you are about D&D. Players who play characters like Joe *classname*, Gandalf, Braaaaghuldritzfetsikavenoperdotenmeier and the great fartelino cannot be expected to be able to roleplay even remotely well. Way i see it, you can name your character whatever you want, with three exceptions. 1: No Gandalf or Conan, no taking famous character's names. doubly so if you want to emulate any other aspect of them (class, manner, etc) 2: No Bob or Joe. you're playing a fantasy game FFS, if you want to be bob, play the Sims. 3: No Haywood. Joke names aren't funny. hah-hah, it's fun once, but it's not funny ten minutes into the game and remove the feel of the game. now, let's try the above example again, only with serious players. "Okay players, gimme a copy of your sheets" *Players hand DM the sheets* "okay...mhmm. lovely. let's start." A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet, sure. but if someone asks you to smell his feces or urine (even if he means rose), would you? I thought so.
q'afuu 11-25-05, 07:51 AM	For better or worse, yes. I will say something about it in a constructive manner, but if he decides not to change it, oh well.An excellent approach. I commend you for it.
Szat 11-25-05, 08:16 AM	I think that a name can make or break a character. At the same time that I think you should promote the game play and creativity of a character I had a similar problem. I had a PC who joined my group for one session. He showed up and showed some really great enthusiasm about gaming. I was disappointed when he rolled up a gnome "straight outta compton". He said his character wore all blue and had rank in Perform: Oratory. I rolled with it for the first hour or so but eventually he just started distracting the other players and talking about how badly he "pimped" those orcs. Suffice it to say he wasn't asked to return. For those of us who take our game seriously it's sort of insulting to have PC's show up at the table with a joke character. It's sort of a smack in the face.
Caemin Pah 11-25-05, 09:18 AM	Carl Johnson isnt a problem for a name....but with some modifications.. Kharl Jon's son? Karll Chonsen? (at least sounds close) Well, you get the idea.
rkr1970 11-25-05, 09:56 AM	Regarding "joke" characters, be careful. Sometimes the player is serious, but it hasn't been made apparent yet. I had a halfling wizard who called himself "Fingers", acted in the most socially unacceptable ways possible whenever we were in town, and who went out of his way to gather gather spells of an offesive nature (not offensive spells, but spells of a sexual or degrading nature). The DM was familiar with he reasoning behaind each of the unusual decisions, and had approved each of them, but the party thought I had a joke character. Very quickly, folks started asking me to "play it straight", I tried to explain to them that I was going someplace very specific with the character, but it wasn't until he started taking levels of rogue that many people realized that this halfling was more than a spellcaster. He began dabbling in a wide range of criminal activities, including smuggling "male enhancement" magic items that he had made into cities that had very high taxes on import goods. By the time I had taken arcane trickster, the other players would get nervious if I smiled to broadly, or looked like some NPC had irritated me. Whether I was figuring out how to get my hands on some vain noble's gold through illicit magical items, or decorating alleyways with the corpses of my enemies, there was very little doubt that "Fingers" was a serious character. While that campaign has been on hold since last May, due to the DM going off to school out of state, folks that played in that campaign still shudder at the mention of 'fling spellcasters. In fact. the last time I made a character, there were visible sighs of relief when I said I was playing a big, dumb, but lovable paladin, one who was just innocent enough and wet enough behind the ears that the party rogue wouldn't have too much to worry about for several levels. (I'm going for a 'Forrest Gump style nice guy who does the right thing' character this time, but I don't want folks at the table knowing that or else the movie lines will start popping up and ruin the effect). This, too, probably sounds like a joke character, but I assure you, he's not. All that said, I think that character concepts especially ones like these, need to be discussed with the DM. If he's OK with it, then you're good to go. But when the DM vetos or resists a character idea, even a perfectly good one, and his reasoning is legitimate, like "druids aren't going to work very well in the campaign because it's city and sewer based", then put the idea aside and develop a new one. In that last example, the DM who told me that wasn't saying "no druids", he was letting me know that druids would be less effective than I'm used to. Within a few game sessions, I saw that he was right. A druid wouldn't have been as much fun to play in that DM's world.
DarknessEternal 11-25-05, 03:13 PM	2: No Bob or Joe. you're playing a fantasy game FFS, if you want to be bob, play the Sims. This is unimaginably stupid. Why can't people have normal names in D&D? Isn't the fact that he lives in a world with dragons and fireballs enough to prove he's a fantasy character? Does he really need a name made up from picking syllables at random?
Andrewinator 11-25-05, 03:41 PM	Haha! Once I had a player name his rogue Al Capone. I let him, because it wasn't a serious campaign.
Paradisio 11-29-05, 06:37 PM	Well, anyways a small update: When the player posted his physical description he said "the picture"... and it was of course Carl Johsnon from grand theft auto... I'm not sure if that means anything, or not... yet. Anyways, he hasn't posted in the campaign in about a week, so I might have to kick him out just for not participating.
Always-Late 11-29-05, 06:55 PM	Out of total curiosity, do those of you who support the booted character to play aforementioned characters allow your players to play dual-weapon wielding chaotic good ranger drow named Drizz't? I mean, just because he shares an race, name, alignment, and class weapon style doesn't mean he's a carbon copy. Even if he refuses to change his race, alignment, or name.
Cathon 11-29-05, 07:10 PM	Hmm, I might have said Carl Johnson doesn't fit in with the fantasy spirit of these games, but you can still be a CJ if you want. How about Corlin Johansen? But then again a Carl who's a son of John is not that bad a construction if you have an area using English names (though Carl comes from one of the northern terms for Chief or King which became the title of Earl, so it might be a bit pretentious in an old english or old norse culture). Names are tough, though, I swear coming up with names for NPCs is one of the hardest parts about being a DM. (At least on those occassions when the PCs ask for a name, rather than just killing first) Of course, they always seem to ask the name of the NPC you just created on the fly because they suddenly wanted to visit a bakery for some reason, not the innkeeper who you actually gave some background to.
Leewei 11-29-05, 07:20 PM	Off topic here, but the Astral Deva in the MM has cornrows. Just made me think of that for some reason. Word up to mah peeps in the seven mounting heavens of Celes-T-ya! What up, dawg archons?
Paradisio 12-05-05, 03:47 PM	Sigh, the campaign is over. Someone else cheated, (I'm not posting how or their name) but I know they did, and I am fed up after everything that has happened in the short time the campaign has been going. Thanks for everyones advice, it's going to be a while before I post again if I ever do; I think I'm going to only play world of darkness for a while.
Belgarath 12-05-05, 03:49 PM	Take his Uncle captive and throw bananas at his house until he moves to Zimbabwe. He'll never bother you again.
Calico Jack Drake 12-05-05, 07:47 PM	Coming late to the discussion, but I wanted to make a quick comment on the name... The player could have easily made a slight change to the character's name and made him Karl Johanson, which would have been a perfectly legitimate Norse(-ish) name. With this name, a slight change in back story makes him a decendant of one of the tribes in the Spine of the World which are roughly Norse barbarian in flavor. With the pic the player used, there'd be no doubt in his mind to the shout out while still fitting into your campaign. He could even keep the rst of the backstory. The only thing you did wrong here was to point out a problem without having a solution. Instead of say "No! Bad player, no cookie" if you had a suggesetion that would have basically kept what you wanted and allowed him basically what he wanted, I think you both would have been happier. Within my extended group of friends and associates, we have a rule that if you point out a problem you have just volunteered to find a solution. Of course, if he still refused and pitched a fit after you tried to get him what he wanted within the bounds of your game, then you're better off with his bailing. Hope this helps --CJ
Kuronue 12-05-05, 08:50 PM	A point nobody seems to have mentioned: the other character names on the forum.. Ulaf Bladeweaver: human Zanven Tigersoul: human Trascallion Cooper (Trask): human Vadania Galanodel: elf wojek: human Carl Johnson doesn't seem to fit into the naming scheme going. If the DM had simply said that the name didn't fit with the other names of the other party members, would there have been so much of an issue?
Arrowhen 12-05-05, 08:55 PM	I suppose one of the benefits of being old is that back when I was young enough to have wanted to name a PC after a videogame character, it would have had to have been named something like "Yellow Square From Adventure."
Gailbraithe 12-05-05, 09:13 PM	I agree with the camp that says Carl Johnson is a fine concept for a character, but not an appropriate name for faerun, which tends to not feature Anglo names. A simple rule of thumb for character names: The DM must be able to say the name on a regular basis without tweaking his sense of disbelief. A player who can't respect that has a problem, because that is an entirely reasonable request. Just as the players should be able to trust the DM to not sic Binky The Super Drow on them, the DM should have to tolerate Jim Jones the cleric (had a player try to pull that one on me).
High Octane 12-05-05, 10:03 PM	Honestly, I would have allowed it as long as the player changed the name. The fact is most players start off basing a character off of another character. However, keeping the name would be a constant reminder, anchoring the player to that original character. But thats just me.
dan1234 12-05-05, 10:37 PM	Have him shot to pieces by a bunch of goons with heavy repeating crossbows in an open-topped wagon pulled by 6 horses, travelling at high speed. Have the other players witness it and then have the local guard ask the other PCs to investigate the ride by shooting. Instant plot hook, reason for party to get together, and get rid of a dumbass PC all at the same time. Sounds good to me. Watching his face as it unfolds is just a bonus. HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would fo that in an instant. That's one of the funniest things I heard. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
mcmurphy510 12-06-05, 05:31 AM	Ok then, since apparently im a nitwit with no social skills, what should I have done? Give him a pistol, a ho and a BMW? That is what he is going to want if he is Carl Johnson. Why does he need to give a shoutout? Should I let players be named Goku "CUZ I like teh DBZ!"? Sorry I am running a medieval fantasy game, not a modern D20 game set in LA, and most of my players like that. I agree with you 100%. The name or the background (as presented) have no place in a fantasy setting. If said player wants to run a d20 modern game (or can get someone else to do it later), great. Save it for then. But even then the blatant copying of another character's story is cheesy. I even discourage my players from naming their characters things like Gandolf or Drizzt. It's just unoriginal and uncreative. And it would (IMO) detract from the enjoyment of the other players (and clearly the DM) who have all agreed that they want a tradational fantasy setting. That said, as a DM, I use plots and characters from TV and movies all the time in my game. I just alter it and adapt it thouroughly enough that my players never have any idea that I'm doing it (unless I tell them). Change it up alot and dont make it blatant and obvious. That's the difference between paying homage and just plain copying. BTW: When applying rule 0, I prefer to use the term "Game Ordinance Director" - LOL...
mcmurphy510 12-06-05, 05:34 AM	I agree with the camp that says Carl Johnson is a fine concept for a character, but not an appropriate name for faerun, which tends to not feature Anglo names. A simple rule of thumb for character names: The DM must be able to say the name on a regular basis without tweaking his sense of disbelief. A player who can't respect that has a problem, because that is an entirely reasonable request. Just as the players should be able to trust the DM to not sic Binky The Super Drow on them, the DM should have to tolerate Jim Jones the cleric (had a player try to pull that one on me). Jim Jones the cleric.... that's classic. I had a DM once who would always attack us with a thug he called "Stone Cold Steve Erkel." No suspension of disbelief in that game.
Sulaco 12-06-05, 09:39 AM	Hmm, I might have said Carl Johnson doesn't fit in with the fantasy spirit of these games, but you can still be a CJ if you want. How about Corlin Johansen? But then again a Carl who's a son of John is not that bad a construction if you have an area using English names (though Carl comes from one of the northern terms for Chief or King which became the title of Earl, so it might be a bit pretentious in an old english or old norse culture). You are thinking of Jarl. Carl means "a strong man".
Traevanon 12-06-05, 12:25 PM	Wow... wow... wow I cant believe the number of people that jumped on Paradisio for disallowing this character concept. As someone previously stated DMs have the right to create whatever kind of world they want and players have the right to create whatever kind of character they want BUT in both cases the other side has the right of veto. If the potential DM has designed a Star Wars - Rock Opera world where everyone has to sing their actions on their initiative the player has the right not to play in that type of game. Alternately if a player makes... what was this again... CJ the gansta fighta whos mutha was murda'd... the DM has the right to say no, and say why, so that the player understands that if they create another similar concept it will be vetoed as well. Seems like a pretty easy call to me. You should have just said no and told him you are not accepting names or concepts based on modern characters and left it alone. The answer to any assurances that he will play this concept in a serious and level headed manner would be resolute steadfastness that he needs to generate another concept. If it looks like common sense, smells like common sense, feels like common sense... you can safely assume its common sense. The guy has a picture of CJ as his avatar on the board this game is run on. He's a fanboy. Any reasonable, serious and level headed player would have a half dozen varied character concepts available in case choice #1 doesnt fit in. This player's half dozen concepts probably would be CJ the Fighter, CJ the Rogue, CJ the Wizard, CJ the Priest, CJ the Monk and CJ the Druid. Again, its possible to be wrong but if you go around doubting your own gut instincts you are never going to get anything done. Make the call. Take the risk that you will flub up. Stick with it until it becomes very obvious that you have indeed flubbed up.
Kuronue 12-06-05, 02:18 PM	a note: I, as a DM playing to a bunch of anime fans, often bring in cameos; nobody complains when Batou the Fighter saves their ass, or when the pirate captain weilds Tetsusaiga because they're playing catgirls and green-haired humans anyway. But I wouldn't let my players make Naruto the ninja; that would be too strong a character for the level. An NPC you meet once or twice adds some laughs to my game, but the serious NPCs that keep returning are named things like Maria, Stephanie, Tenores, Xeno, Xeract, et cetera-- all non-anime cameos. I wouldn't create an entire plot around Sasuke the Ninja Guildmaster; he's just for fun. the PCs are infinatly more important than any NPC; I wouldn't want to create a plot around CJ the Gangsta, even if there happened to be a prostitute named Candi who is good at blowjobs in some random town. Fun is fun, but you have to be able to be serious when serious plots take hold.
Rauric 12-06-05, 02:36 PM	You were right. Unless you and everyone else really did not mind it. You were right. Carl Johnson? WTH! "Take that suckah! Gonna pop another quarrel in yo azz! Suckah!" I mean really. Tell him to play WOW. He can do the "shout out" (lol) there. *EDIT*After read more of the thread and not just the 1st post I feel it is ok to let him in. I would have said he couldn't be from Shade though. That would be my only restriction. He can hace the same character and be from many other towns or cities. I just don't like people using Shade as a bacground. It is just a personal peeve of mine. DMs can have a kneejerk reaction at times. It is ok to compromise as long it doesn't take away from the game YOU are running. It takes alot of effort to run a game and keep it going. I hope he doesnt talk like a gansta. Oi.
Caemin Pah 12-07-05, 09:37 AM	I have thought about this thread when one of my players wanted a modern-style name for his character, then remembered something rather interesting. It is ASSUMED that D&D is based timeline-wise in the 12th or 13th century, give or take a century. The poor living conditions of the common people, kings having near-total control, etc. Looking back through the middle ages, names kept popping out at me.... for example Adrian IV - (1100-1159) The only Englishman to ever serve as pope. Albert I - Holy Roman Emperor from 1298 to 1308 Alexander III - (1105-1181) Pope from 1159 to 1181 King Arthur (no need to explain this name) John Ball - (d. 1381) English priest who stirred up enough dissention to start the people's crusade of 1381. Thomas Becket (1118-1170) - Archbishop of Canterbury during the reign of Henry II. Edward III (1312-1377) King of England during the English-French Hundred years War. St. Francis of Assisi (1182-1226) Founder of the Francisan Friars. Harold II of Godswin (1022-1066) Last Anglo-Saxon king of England, killed during the Battle of Hastings in 1066. Empress Irene (c. 752-803) wife of Leo IV, the only woman to lead an empire in her own name. She ruled the Byzantine Empire. William Langland (c. 1330-1400) author of the Canterbury Tales. King Richard (The Lionhearted) - Once again, no need to explain this... William Wallace (Braveheart) This is just a brief list... There were MANY, MANY more Williams, and Henrys. So to me Carl Johnson means nothing as far as a name goes. So long as he plays his character as though we were in the fantasy world, no 'in da hood' as others have posted. IMHO
morgosdarkknight 12-07-05, 10:18 AM	Geoffery Chaucer wrote the Canterbury Tales, William Langland wrote Piers Plowman.
prawn 12-07-05, 12:58 PM	I am on the DM's side on this one. I think that the game needs to be fun for everybody, and if the player doesn't agree with the DM about the name at the very beginning, that is a sign of friction to come. Yes, players should have fun, but if the DM doesn't have fun, that's the end of the game. DMs should have fun too! Here's an example of a name-thing that went on at the beginning of my game that was a sign of trouble. DM: "Hey, your character has rhino hide armor. The campaign is set in an area like nothern Europe. There are no rhinos. Could you get some different armor?" Player: "No, I like it, it gives me extra damage." DM: "Okay, let's change the name and call it armor of the ram or something. That way you can the the extra damage, but the description of the item will be in keeping with the flavor of the game." Player: "No, I am not going to change it. That's what's its called in the DMG." So this player was uncooperative from the get go, and he continued to cause problems until it blew up a few months later and I threw him out of the game in a big messy conflict. The fault was mine. I should have taken a stand against such an uncoperative player from the very beginning. While I think that Pardiso could have been more tactful, I think he made the right move. DnD is supposed to be a friendly game, and if a friend says something bothers you (like the name of your PC), you should listen.
DarknessEternal 12-07-05, 02:35 PM	If you seriously object to a name for any reason other than it being obscene and offensive, you should stop playing this game.
pres_man 12-07-05, 03:10 PM	Change the name to Carl, Son of John. Problem solved.
JamesDruidDM 12-07-05, 03:18 PM	first off I cant belive this thread got to 4 pages, and forgive me I stopped at page 2 1/2 It is the DMs right as the DM to say no to ANYTHING he wants to, that doesnt make right, but thats his choice, its his game he is the one doing all the prep, setting up every scene, playing every NPC the players run across, if he feels that a characters name is inappropriate for his game then THATS IT, there is no disscussion, no argument, change the flippin name and start playing. Note to the DM - Names arent really that important, (I had a player with the character name John Doe), unless he was intending to try and find a automobile or a automatic rifle, the name really wont make that much of an impact (shouldnt have) on your game and you could have possible lost a good player. Just because you have the power to do something doesnt mean you should do it With great power comes ..... you know the rest
Paradisio 12-07-05, 03:28 PM	I didn't dissalow the name just because of the name, it was also the similar backstory; and later it became him looking identical to Carl Johnson. I only required him changing the name beause in my experience if I request a change of backstory I get an even greater backlash (WTF ITS MY BACKSTORY KISS MY ASS POWER CONTROLLING DM I WANT TO BE KING OF THE ORCS AT LEVEL ONE 1!!11!!!) I didn't just do this from a DM standpoint, I did something similar in the past and I felt like a tool for copying a character. And in an online campaign where it could go on for years I want players to stick with their characters.
Arrowhen 12-07-05, 03:58 PM	If you seriously object to a name for any reason other than it being obscene and offensive, you should stop playing this game. And if you seriously believe that an individual player's "right" to play whatever kind of character he wants regardless of the effect it has on the other players are more important than everyone's shared responsibility to create fun and exciting stories for the enjoyment of all... then you're pretty much WotC's target demographic. Congratulations.
oxybe 12-07-05, 04:43 PM	@Arrowhen funny joke on the "yellow pixel" :D now: And if you seriously believe that an individual player's "right" to play whatever kind of character he wants regardless of the effect it has on the other players are more important than everyone's shared responsibility to create fun and exciting stories for the enjoyment of all... then you're pretty much WotC's target demographic. Congratulations. i have to agree and disagree. i agree that playing a half-fey kobold barbarian/frenzied berserker named Jub-Jub is out of context 85% of the time, but just because he wants to play CJ, is it really wrong (i'll admit, i never played GTA:SA, or whatever. if he came up to me with the backstory i would care less.)? a name is the last thing i do when creating characters. morso if it needs to be unspeakable by human lips. why do PC's have to have exotic names? is everyone named so oddly? if so why should "robert" or "joseph" be banned? try to guess if this character is "new" or "copied" from this description: -Male -early-mid 20ies -self-proclaimed treasure hunter -great at sneaking & stealing -mainly a dagger user, but can use exotic ranged weapons -has a blue bandana -can use magic, but not his strong suite -wears decent armor(light/medium) -great at disguising himself -noble when near women -classes: rogue 10 / ranger 5 / dread commando 5 (used to give his abilities in battle and otherwise) can you guess if he's unique?
Paradisio 12-07-05, 04:56 PM	How is that even relevant? He wasn't sly like your being, he wanted me to know he was copying a video game character, and I didn't like that. You didn't name your character the same as whoever your copying (if you are at all.) Is it wrong for me to run a serious fantasy campaign? Thats all I want an answer to. I just don't think having names like Goku, Jesus son of God, 2Pac, and Carl Johnson is appropriate.
DarknessEternal 12-07-05, 05:15 PM	And if you seriously believe that an individual player's "right" to play whatever kind of character he wants regardless of the effect it has on the other players are more important than everyone's shared responsibility to create fun and exciting stories for the enjoyment of all... then you're pretty much WotC's target demographic. Congratulations. I kept reading what I wrote, but I only see me mentioning "names" and nothing else about a character concept.
Ryven 12-07-05, 05:26 PM	First of all, I think it's been made pretty clear that the name wasn't the only problem. So stop focusing on the name problem. Water under the bridge. Paradisio was just upset that the player wanted to copy a videogame character, and not only a video game character, a modern videogame character, into a Medieval-esque Faerunian game. Maybe he wanted a more serious game. Maybe he didn't want to put forth the effort to EXTREME MAKEOVER Carl Johnson to make him more compatable. Whatever his reasons, he was the DM, and he said no. He had every right to. It's something that's upheld on this board over and over again. I don't allow my players to make giant robot characters named Gigantor, but is really just a Colossal sized Warforged, in my Swashbuckling campaign, is that wrong? I want a more serious type of game. And honestly. How can this board in one breath say "NO ANIME! ANIME HAS NO PLACE IN D&D! AAARRRRGGGHHH!!!" and in the next say "But Carl Johnson's okay. Stupid control freak DM! Jeeze!" While the players should have freedom to make interesting characters, they shouldn't do it at the expense of everyone else's fun, nor at the DM's work on his or her campaign.
loaba 12-07-05, 05:28 PM	Is it wrong for me to run a serious fantasy campaign? Thats all I want an answer to. I just don't think having names like Goku, Jesus son of God, 2Pac, and Carl Johnson is appropriate. No, it is not wrong to want to run a serious game, however, I fail to see where names like Goku and Carl Johnson are a problem. In my group, like as not, we would just flip the name to Johnson Carl and ignore the backstory and move on. Now, names like Jesus Son of God and 2Pac would not be tolerated on genertal principle (the other two at least sound like plausible names), so what we would do is make some changes to those names. 2pac would become Tupac (funny, I know) and we would make lotsa jokes about "9's" and "shorties" and whatnot. Jesus et al would be shortened to Jesus and we would make jokes a la the Life of Brian. Eventually the player would get the idea that this was what awaited them until such a time as they elected to come up with something a bit more appropriate.
Arrowhen 12-07-05, 05:33 PM	I kept reading what I wrote, but I only see me mentioning "names" and nothing else about a character concept. A character's name is part of his or her concept. Mature players will develop character concepts--including names--which are appropriate to the tone of the campaign in which they will appear. This works both ways: a character named Grugnukk Skull-chewer is no more appropriate to a historically accurate Italian Renaissance campaign than one named Sigismundo Alberti would be to a deliberately cheesy over the top hack-and-slash campaign.
Spus Widgetwatcher 12-07-05, 05:50 PM	@Arrowhen try to guess if this character is "new" or "copied" from this description: -Male -early-mid 20ies -self-proclaimed treasure hunter -great at sneaking & stealing -mainly a dagger user, but can use exotic ranged weapons -has a blue bandana -can use magic, but not his strong suite -wears decent armor(light/medium) -great at disguising himself -noble when near women -classes: rogue 10 / ranger 5 / dread commando 5 (used to give his abilities in battle and otherwise) can you guess if he's unique? Locke from FF6. And I'd disallow it myself- he obviously just wants to be a gangsta or whatever- the name may fit, but the attitude doesn't, and his name will only provoke such thoughts. The Guy is frankly an idiot. You could base a character off CJ- A man who does what it takes to get whatever it takes to get something done regardless of the law, will go to hell and back for his Family, etc- but just calling him CJ, and a crappy backstory like that means that probably isn't the train of though his head. Calling your CJ-based char CJ is dumb- you could do much better by naming him say, Hunter Jacobs or something(that name kinda sucks, but that isn't the point.), You have your inspiration and he seems much less of a rip off. I personally try to give my chars normal, yet stand out names- Guy, Clyde, Riza, Gerad. They aren't painfully common(I highly doubt anyone knows 2 people named Guy or Clyde), however, It wouldn't be cruel to name my children those names either. I've also named a cohort "Bob", but that's because he's foreign and has some extremely long hard to prenounce real name- his name isn't truly Bob. It's Tlahuazcalapanthecutli Hueyhueveteotl. Him being called Bob is a running gag. As a DM, I'll give common names to common people. If you suddenly provoke some Drunken Bar PAtron to tell you his name, he'll tell you something like Bob or Carl. Most Important NPCs are given more fantasical names.
Wizards_White_Knight 12-07-05, 06:55 PM	On a dark and stormy summers night, a woman in a modest home struggles to give birth to her forth child. Her husband stands by her side, anxiously awaiting his newborn child. Eventually, they give birth to a healthy baby boy. After much debate, they decide to name the boy, Sylius. "Why sylius mummy? He doesn't sound anything like us" says thier eldest boy. "Well, Fred, unlike you, and your sisters, Jill and Jane, Sylius is destined to do great things. Most likely after we all get slaughtered, and us womenfolk raped. He'll be a grand hero. Just be comfortable in knowing the rest of your life will be lived in mediocrity."
oxybe 12-07-05, 07:34 PM	a :cookie: for you, Spus Widgetwatcher! paradisio, you just proved my point. you could not identify the character. what if i were to play locke at your game, with you not knowing i was playing a character that already has a pre-made backstory you would not care (since you could not name the character, i'm guessing you never played final fantasy 6. actually i recommend you play it, it's quite good). would cloud strife still be cloud if he was called Bill? probly. the personality would not change, but the name would be less memorable. people tend to think a name is important, almost as if it defines the character, yet the actions speak much louder then the name. give "CJ" a chance, you may be surprised what a player can do if given a chance. also, no matter how well thought out your campaigns are, players will tend to do things you do not expect. i tried to create a multiple-path scenario in one campaign, i though i had every base covered. players did A? skip to page B, paragraph C. they did Z? oh, page W, paragraph T. i didn't even have half the bases covered, not by a long shot. the players one-upped me and decided they wanted to do X, which wasn't even on my radar. most of the encounter was scrapped due to them free forming things. we still had great fun. that pretty much told me not to try to railroad the PC's in one specific direction. if "CJ" took the time to think his character through (or at least do research on the character's mannerisms, history and personality) it showed some initiative on his part. now, as much as i think of myself as a "liberal DM", i do have some restraint on what i do and do not allow. if we are playing in a western-medival setting asking for a bmw would be odd, but my npcs would just respond with "what is this BMW you speak of?". now if he were to ask for a prostitute, they do exist. many countries had escorts/harems that could be accessed by people with the means, and the services of the local wench could be bought off by a farmer. before a game you should have a pre-game meeting to discuss the setting and rules beforehand (or in the case of a play by post, you should have a pre-game thread).
imperialjunkie 12-07-05, 08:50 PM	Heh. Funny there's this much discussion over a name... Anyway. I didn't read all of the posts, but I read the link to your game forum. Though not as harshly as OntheWings, I'd have to agree that you were a little harsh. Didn't seem like you gave the guy a chance to prove he was serious when he said he was. You might have at least afforded him that chance. Of course playing by post with people you don't know can easily lead to edgy communication. I'd just recommend a little more flexibility and kindness. :)
Wizards_White_Knight 12-07-05, 09:17 PM	Turns out that the player of CJ lacked somethign rather fundamental for an online campaign. That being an internet connection. :confused: He has been removed from said campaign.
Kuronue 12-07-05, 09:51 PM	If the DM doesn't have ultimate veto over a character, who does? I'll say that another way If the DM can't decide what is and is not allowed in a campaign, who makes that call? One more time If the DM doesn't control the gameworld, who does?
Caemin Pah 12-07-05, 10:08 PM	Geoffery Chaucer wrote the Canterbury Tales, William Langland wrote Piers Plowman. You're right, my bad :) I got my books mixed up, consider it a failed Knowledge (history) check.
Dire Hamster 12-07-05, 10:17 PM	Your "friend" sounds like an immature tool. I say you boot him out of the group! A joke or having a little fun in the game is fine, if everyone's in on the joke. But when it deliberately makes play difficult for the entire group, it ceases to be a joke and instead becomes a pain in the ass. Sounds like this guy is just trying to be difficult; you're better off without him!
smoker 12-07-05, 10:38 PM	It's just a game. Why do you care what his character is called? smoker
Traevanon 12-08-05, 07:16 AM	It's just a game. Why do you care what his character is called? smoker Because there are other people who have to sit around and spend their free time with an idiot who doesnt care about anybody else's fun. Paradisio is being kind enough to host a D&D game, the least a player can do is try to understand what kind of game is being run and choose to either participate or not, politely. Its really very simple. Some people run silly, light hearted D&D games with Godzilla, Dust Mote, The Worm and Han Solo as characters but this particular DM is not. Conform or dont, but at least dont cause a big stink about it when you are excluded for choosing not to conform. Dont show up for chess club insisting to play checkers.
oxybe 12-08-05, 09:04 AM	Dont show up for chess club insisting to play checkers. he didn't come to play a diffrent game, he wanted to play a character in d&d that didn't have a ridiculous name. i just find it odd that some people think that you have to have oddly named characters like Zulubatakutu Nunzihashall to be taken seriously. do i run silly, lighthearted games? sometimes, other times i run serious games. i rarely force people to pick a name. maybe they came from a diffrent land? maybe their parents decided to give them a foreign name? maybe it's a name from a diffrent race? it's not weird to have a human give their kid an elf, dwarf, or even orcish name. why would it be weird to give the guy a name like "carl"? "Conform or don't"? who do you work for, The GAP? @Kuronue i never said that the DM had no power, or the players should walk all over him, but i did say that i gave my players more freedom. if the players don't have any control or freedom in character creation, i would just give them a character sheet with a pre-made character & backstory. I doubt i would play with a dm who has a 10-foot pole stuck up his dice roller, because he wouldn't want me to play a character who's name and some of his background is based off of an existing character. is doing this really much worse then playing chivalrous knight #0047-b? or grumpy wizard #1023-k? this is (partially) why i rarely play a paladin or samurai. they are, quite frankly, boring. at least with other classes i have more choices in what i want to do, even if i am lawful good and i am not tied down due to alignment or lord.
Sulaco 12-08-05, 10:17 AM	No, it is not wrong to want to run a serious game, however, I fail to see where names like Goku and Carl Johnson are a problem. The problem is that they evoke something very specific other than the game. Gandalf is a perfectly valid mythological name but if you name a PC Gandalf the other players will constantlty be thinking about, and probabbly referencing, the Lord of the Rings. The last thing I want in my D&D games is some git making Dragonball references, and while I adore the GTA games - best video game series ever IMO - I don't want it in my D&D as it has an entirely differerent mood and feel and it simply doesn't fit.
Sulaco 12-08-05, 10:27 AM	he didn't come to play a diffrent game, he wanted to play a character in d&d that didn't have a ridiculous name. i just find it odd that some people think that you have to have oddly named characters like Zulubatakutu Nunzihashall to be taken seriously. Which people? Who here posted anything of the sort? In my world three are no silly names like "Zulubatakutu Nunzihashall", though names like Chandramouleeswaran and Ganapathiraman and Narayanaswamy would be acceptable as are names like Gaston, Richard, Titus Appius, Achates, Elowyn, Seven Big Snakes, Badran, Amargein, and Ntokozo - it all depends from where the PC hails. Virtually everything in my world has a rough real-world cultural analog to give a handle on RPing and to dictate naming conventions. A name like Carl Johnson wouldn't fly, but Karl Jonsen (pronounce "Yonsen") would be fine. Of course that is a dwarven name so any dreams of playing a street-tough urban gangsta go right out the window, but you can't have everything. ;)
Traevanon 12-08-05, 10:45 AM	Using the name Carl Johnson in Paradisio's D&D game is not the problem. Playing the GTA character Carl Johnson in Paradisio's D&D game is the problem. And the name wont even be Carl Johnson in actual play. It will be CJ. GTA *is* a different game than D&D. He may want to play on the same board and with the same people, but he wants to use his checkers against my pawns. And by the way I dont work for the gap, I work for the government and I'm here to help.
Arak the mighty 12-08-05, 11:45 AM	Using the name Carl Johnson in Paradisio's D&D game is not the problem. Playing the GTA character Carl Johnson in Paradisio's D&D game is the problem Seems to me that this is the main sticking point. And from what I read here and on the other forum, (Given that the avatar was um.....Carl Johnson from GTA) that certainly looked to be the players intention.
Mandarbgrim 12-08-05, 12:32 PM	The name doesn't matter. The backstory doesn't matter. The characters attitude doesn't matter. What matters is how such will effect the other players. Several people have mentioned the player being ribbed and ridiculed for doing something so cheesy. As the DM, maybe he doesn't want those distractions, and wants to focus on the game seriously..so he wants to avoid out of game jokes coming into the game..or atleast limiting them. Having someone that wanted to play as a gangster from a video game, even being serious, is likely to be too distracting to the other players, or perhaps the DM simply thinks it would be because it distracts him. Either way, It is perfectly acceptable for him to tell someone that it wasn't within the tone of the game. He failed to do so in a good manner in this situation, but on the same token the player wasn't being very cooperative.
Gailbraithe 12-08-05, 01:35 PM	Out of total curiosity, do those of you who support the booted character to play aforementioned characters allow your players to play dual-weapon wielding chaotic good ranger drow named Drizz't? I mean, just because he shares an race, name, alignment, and class weapon style doesn't mean he's a carbon copy. Even if he refuses to change his race, alignment, or name. Good question. As a DM I would allow a character modelled on Carl Johnson from GTA, and not a character modelled on Drizz't, in the 3.5 campaign I am launching (hopefully before the year is out!). There are two primary reasons for this: 1. My current campaign is a blend of urban adventure and dungeon crawls. I specifically told my players I was sick and tired of rangers, druids, barbarians, and wilderness adventures. Our last campaign was heavily focused on wilderness adventures (fighting Zhentarim in Border Forest). The new campaign will focus heavily on political and criminal intrigues, rival mafia-like gangs, and other urban themes. It will also start at 1st level. Therefore a character modelled on Carl Johnson would be a perfect fit for this campaign. There are gangs to join -- or play against each other -- and crimes to commit (and City Guard to fight). 2. Drizz't Duorden is an actual character in my campaign - my campaign is set in the Forgotten Realms! He is not first level, and even if a player decided to play him at first level, he would be in the Underdark, hundreds of thousands of miles from the campaign homebase (and roughly twenty years in the past). This is unacceptable. A character modelled loosely on Drizz't, with a different name, would be acceptable so long as he was not a drow - though I'd request he be made into the Urban Ranger variant, as again, I'm freaking sick of rangers and this won't be a wilderness themed adventure. Drow are , IMHO,pretty much never acceptable PC characters, because low level drow have no real way of getting to the surface. Also, with their penalties in light, and the general hostility the world has for them, I don't think they're really playable. I might allow a drow if the player could provide a plausible and original backstory that explained how he was on the surface. 3. I think any player who refused to be flexible and insisted he was playing "a" Drizz't Duorden and not "the" Drizz't Duorden is almost certainly a jackass that I don't want coming over to my house.
Gailbraithe 12-08-05, 01:42 PM	It's just a game. Why do you care what his character is called? Having to ask a player "What spell is Nibsy McSquirreldiddle casting?" or "What is Darth Vader's AC again?" totally blows my suspension of disbelief. I can't believe the action is really happening if I can't believe in the characters. You're right, it is just a game. And when characters are given hopelessly stupid joke names, or names, it never becomes anything more than a game. A pretty boring game at that.
Sulaco 12-08-05, 01:51 PM	Out of total curiosity, do those of you who support the booted character to play aforementioned characters allow your players to play dual-weapon wielding chaotic good ranger drow named Drizz't? Oh sweet Christmas, no. Nor do I allow someone to play a carbon-copy PC with a different name, etiher. I played in a game once where one guy had a good drow ranger wielding dual scimitars and with a magical mask to change his appearance. When I pointed out the fact it was remarkably similar to a certain ficitonal character I was informed that the PC was in fact a totally unique character cos he had a magical wolf as a companion. :rolleyes: D&D is a game of imagination. Why waste your time trying to play someone else's character?
loaba 12-08-05, 02:10 PM	D&D is a game of imagination. Why waste your time trying to play someone else's character? Because you like the concept so much that you want to emulate it? Why is this a problem? As long as R.A. Salvatore isn't there to save your butt, I guarantee your characters story will be far different from that of ol' Drizzt.
Paradisio 12-08-05, 02:27 PM	If a player copies a character they are going to feel entitled to get opportunities to be that character. And I don't want to derail the campaign into giving mr CJ pistols or Drizzit wannabe awesome swords named "Twinkle" or whatever. Thats why its a problem, and apparently I'm the only one here who has had players leave the campaign because their ripoff character couldn't become every faucet of that character.
loaba 12-08-05, 02:40 PM	If a player copies a character they are going to feel entitled to get opportunities to be that character. And I don't want to derail the campaign into giving mr CJ pistols or Drizzit wannabe awesome swords named "Twinkle" or whatever. I can understand where you're coming from on the pistols, DnD is not d20 Modern. Fair enough. But if your Drizzt clone uses scimitars, then he (like every other player) is well within his rights to expect to find magic weapons of the type he prefers. Whatever he names 'em is his business. And just because he does name 'em, doesn't mean squat. apparently I'm the only one here who has had players leave the campaign because their ripoff character couldn't become every faucet of that character. Do you mean 'facet'? And no, I have never had such an acute as what you have described with any player or DM. Maybe my group is just a bit more relaxed?
Sulaco 12-08-05, 02:55 PM	Because you like the concept so much that you want to emulate it? Why is this a problem? Cos it is a complete waste of time. If you like a certain character then draw inspiration from it and make your own characetr, don't just try to ape someone else's.
Arak the mighty 12-08-05, 03:20 PM	I had a player once submit a characet by the name of "Smedley Blunder*uck". I didn't let that one go. I had a guy who rolled up a fighter with an INT of 4 who wanted to name his character HULK. Which I didn't allow. Unless my players tell me that they want a silly and light-hearted game, I am under the assumption that everyone at the table is going to take the game at the very least, semi-seriously. Having a thug gangster from 1990 running around in the world is going to make that tough for some people I'd assume. No, it's not just the name. It was the name, the avatar, and the backstory. The DM had every reason to believe this guy was going to be playing the GTA character to the T in his game. 5 years ago, if a player submitted a character with the name "Carl Johnson" I wouldn't have balked at all. Some people don't have the imagination that others do when it comes to ridiculous made up names. :D I've had players with such uninspired character names as Theo, Victor, Joseph and so on. I had no beef, because not a single one of them were a BLATANT RIPOFF of something else. It's one thing to "draw inspiration" from a character you like. It's another one to play a carbon copy clone.
UltimateReality 12-08-05, 08:19 PM	A name like Carl Johnson wouldn't fly, but Karl Jonsen (pronounce "Yonsen") would be fine. Of course that is a dwarven name so any dreams of playing a street-tough urban gangsta go right out the window, but you can't have everything. ;) Actually, D20 modern's Urban Arcana has got a street-tough urban dwarven gangsta iconic of some sort named "Kurt Mason". Then again, Urban Arcana may not be the most serious of campaign settings...