Carrying Capacity articles by Skip Williams [Archive] - Wizards Community

Carrying Capacity articles by Skip Williams [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kunger00
11-01-05, 04:47 PM Hey everyone,

I just got finished reading the three articles by Skip Williams http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20051018a and found them to be very interesting. However, two things strike me as needing further attention.

First, in article #3 Skip talks about a bag of holding type I being able to hold a rigid item 5' in length and giving 10 minutes of breathing time to a medium sized creature.

However, a portable hole is a 6' diameter by 10' deep hole and *it* can only carry enough air for 1 medium sized creature for 10 minutes.

Either the bags of holding need to be scaled back or the portable hole scaled upwards.

At least how *I* see it.

Next problem... In the 3e PHB they listed the carrying VOLUME of various containers. However, in 3.5e that information was unfortunately left out during editing even though it is still referenced several times in the equipment charts.

However, even using the VOLUME capacity as given in the 3e PHB is less than ideal as all equipment is listed in weight.

For an example that occured in my game, the players found a treasure trove of coins but were limited on time to loot. One player stuffed a side pocket of a Handy Haversack with coins. The rest filled their belt pouches or sacks, etc.

But since everything lists container capacity in VOLUME and coins (and every other peice of equipment) is given in WEIGHT, I had to spend time better used elsewhere to determine how much treasure each player collected.

I know that being a DM isn't about turning your brain off. However, I also kow that being an older DM with older players means that my time to devote to running a game is shared with work and family. And to be honest, work and family win out every time. So tools that make it easier for me are much appreciated.

So, with that in mind, would it be possible for Mr Williams to 1) Write an article with the container information for those who don't have access to the 3e PHB and 2) Like he did in the carrying capacity articles, perhaps expand on the table a bit and include either maximum WEIGHT carried by the containers and/or list VOLUME of some of the standard equipment items and coins?

Thanks

Keith
prettyripples
11-01-05, 05:02 PM Check Page 248 of the 3.5 DMG. That at least has the values for a Bag of Holding - and as that's the method of choice for most mid-level players (afaik), that should be a reasonable start to your list.
StormCrow42
11-01-05, 11:04 PM See container capacity link in my sig for capacities of mundane containers.
FriendoftheDork
11-02-05, 01:02 AM the problem by using weight as measurement is that size matters more when you're trying to fit items into a bag. Except for money and gems, most items will never fit the weight capacity of any bag, and the capacity is generally what the bag can take before it breaks.

So when you're trying to fit 4 leather armor and 7 longswords into your bag, weight is pretty much irrelevantm while space is everything.

But it's true, it would perhaps be better with some simplified system based off weight or something.
Lumus
11-02-05, 04:17 AM Interdimensional oxygen used to bug me too.

A portable hole with standard dimenions holds roughly 32,010 litres of air. The average breath for a typical adult human is about 0.5 litres, in and out. That's 64,000 breaths, give or take; at 12 inhalations/exhalations per minute you're looking more at 5333 minutes, or [rounding again for sake of ease] 88 hours. Beats the ten minute rule by a mile.

A Type I bag of holding, on the other hand, holds 30 cubic feet. One cubic foot = 28.3169 L, so the bag has roughly 850 L of air. At 500 mL/breath that means 1,700 breaths; 12 full breaths [inhalation and exhalation] per minute actually gives you 140 minutes of air, roughly.

You can probably see the trend for yourself. Bear in mind this doesn't account for the amount of air displaced by anything curently residing in the extradimensional space, the breathing creature included!

If you don't like the math, or just prefer the DMG rules, by all means, use what the books present. It's all in fun. However, if you like to inject a little science here and there, then consider letting characters breathe a little easier in their extradimensional containers.

Just don't encourage them to start a campfire.
Verkon
11-02-05, 07:51 AM When the percent of CO2 got up there one would stuffer from carbine dioxide poisoning, but it would still only maybe cut the times you listed in half or maybe a quarter.
SBMC
11-02-05, 08:02 AM the problem by using weight as measurement is that size matters more when you're trying to fit items into a bag. Except for money and gems, most items will never fit the weight capacity of any bag, and the capacity is generally what the bag can take before it breaks.

So when you're trying to fit 4 leather armor and 7 longswords into your bag, weight is pretty much irrelevantm while space is everything.

But it's true, it would perhaps be better with some simplified system based off weight or something.

Some items include dimensions suchs as Hewards Handy Haversack and a portable hole.

The article noted above:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040406a

Has the volume and weight for many things. It is part of the "going metric" rules opf the game series; but it happens to have a chart of this.

I would hope that those charts; or ones like it; would be broken out and expanded upon in another article regarding carrying things. No one would know to look at "going metric" for this information.
wreintein
11-02-05, 08:44 AM I ran into the same problem a while back then I was calculating the things needed by the party to drag the massive treasury back to the village. So after some research I found draconomic stating that 50 coins go into 1 lb and that 12.000 loosely stacked coins take up 1 ft^3. Using these numbers I desiced I would use to calculate the volume from the mass the density 240 lb/ft^3. Which should be approximately correct as many solid have roughly the same density and many items are foldable (even armours can be taken apart most of the time, so the bits can be stacked neatly taking up less space). A conversion measure is certqainly needed when the portable hole makes it's apperence (this has no weigth limit)

As for the interdimensional oxygen. I just use 10 minute rule. And my party often uses it's bag and hole (though never simultaneous :( ) for transportation.

The calculations made seem however very plausible. And you wouldn't suffer from CO2 poisoning after that time. The calculation is made using the fact you breath every volume once. And each time a normal human only uses a quarter or so of the oxygen in the air. So you could even go on longer that the estimated times, but then things would get worse for you.
Despana
11-02-05, 11:37 AM Interdimensional oxygen used to bug me too.

A portable hole with standard dimenions holds roughly 32,010 litres of air. The average breath for a typical adult human is about 0.5 litres, in and out. That's 64,000 breaths, give or take; at 12 inhalations/exhalations per minute you're looking more at 5333 minutes, or [rounding again for sake of ease] 88 hours. Beats the ten minute rule by a mile.

A Type I bag of holding, on the other hand, holds 30 cubic feet. One cubic foot = 28.3169 L, so the bag has roughly 850 L of air. At 500 mL/breath that means 1,700 breaths; 12 full breaths [inhalation and exhalation] per minute actually gives you 140 minutes of air, roughly.

You can probably see the trend for yourself. Bear in mind this doesn't account for the amount of air displaced by anything curently residing in the extradimensional space, the breathing creature included!

If you don't like the math, or just prefer the DMG rules, by all means, use what the books present. It's all in fun. However, if you like to inject a little science here and there, then consider letting characters breathe a little easier in their extradimensional containers.

Just don't encourage them to start a campfire.

If you want to get this technical you also have to factor in the volume of air that the person would displace out of the bag, hole, etc. When all is said and done it's probably just better to go with the 10-minute rule.
Sulaco
11-02-05, 11:48 AM However, a portable hole is a 6' diameter by 10' deep hole and *it* can only carry enough air for 1 medium sized creature for 10 minutes.

A standard SCUBA tank contains 80 cu. ft. of air can easily provide enough air for an hour dive. A portable hole is roughly 282 cu. ft. and provides enough air for just 10 minutes. :uh-huh:

Even if you assume the person inside is massive and takes up a staggering 36 cu. ft. (2'x3'x6') then that leaves 246 cu. ft., which should be enough for at least 3 hours.

BTW, a portable hole only holds about 8,000 litres, not 32,010 (which would be about 1,130 cu. ft.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kunger00 11-01-05, 04:47 PM	Hey everyone, I just got finished reading the three articles by Skip Williams http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20051018a and found them to be very interesting. However, two things strike me as needing further attention. First, in article #3 Skip talks about a bag of holding type I being able to hold a rigid item 5' in length and giving 10 minutes of breathing time to a medium sized creature. However, a portable hole is a 6' diameter by 10' deep hole and it can only carry enough air for 1 medium sized creature for 10 minutes. Either the bags of holding need to be scaled back or the portable hole scaled upwards. At least how I see it. Next problem... In the 3e PHB they listed the carrying VOLUME of various containers. However, in 3.5e that information was unfortunately left out during editing even though it is still referenced several times in the equipment charts. However, even using the VOLUME capacity as given in the 3e PHB is less than ideal as all equipment is listed in weight. For an example that occured in my game, the players found a treasure trove of coins but were limited on time to loot. One player stuffed a side pocket of a Handy Haversack with coins. The rest filled their belt pouches or sacks, etc. But since everything lists container capacity in VOLUME and coins (and every other peice of equipment) is given in WEIGHT, I had to spend time better used elsewhere to determine how much treasure each player collected. I know that being a DM isn't about turning your brain off. However, I also kow that being an older DM with older players means that my time to devote to running a game is shared with work and family. And to be honest, work and family win out every time. So tools that make it easier for me are much appreciated. So, with that in mind, would it be possible for Mr Williams to 1) Write an article with the container information for those who don't have access to the 3e PHB and 2) Like he did in the carrying capacity articles, perhaps expand on the table a bit and include either maximum WEIGHT carried by the containers and/or list VOLUME of some of the standard equipment items and coins? Thanks Keith
prettyripples 11-01-05, 05:02 PM	Check Page 248 of the 3.5 DMG. That at least has the values for a Bag of Holding - and as that's the method of choice for most mid-level players (afaik), that should be a reasonable start to your list.
StormCrow42 11-01-05, 11:04 PM	See container capacity link in my sig for capacities of mundane containers.
FriendoftheDork 11-02-05, 01:02 AM	the problem by using weight as measurement is that size matters more when you're trying to fit items into a bag. Except for money and gems, most items will never fit the weight capacity of any bag, and the capacity is generally what the bag can take before it breaks. So when you're trying to fit 4 leather armor and 7 longswords into your bag, weight is pretty much irrelevantm while space is everything. But it's true, it would perhaps be better with some simplified system based off weight or something.
Lumus 11-02-05, 04:17 AM	Interdimensional oxygen used to bug me too. A portable hole with standard dimenions holds roughly 32,010 litres of air. The average breath for a typical adult human is about 0.5 litres, in and out. That's 64,000 breaths, give or take; at 12 inhalations/exhalations per minute you're looking more at 5333 minutes, or [rounding again for sake of ease] 88 hours. Beats the ten minute rule by a mile. A Type I bag of holding, on the other hand, holds 30 cubic feet. One cubic foot = 28.3169 L, so the bag has roughly 850 L of air. At 500 mL/breath that means 1,700 breaths; 12 full breaths [inhalation and exhalation] per minute actually gives you 140 minutes of air, roughly. You can probably see the trend for yourself. Bear in mind this doesn't account for the amount of air displaced by anything curently residing in the extradimensional space, the breathing creature included! If you don't like the math, or just prefer the DMG rules, by all means, use what the books present. It's all in fun. However, if you like to inject a little science here and there, then consider letting characters breathe a little easier in their extradimensional containers. Just don't encourage them to start a campfire.
Verkon 11-02-05, 07:51 AM	When the percent of CO2 got up there one would stuffer from carbine dioxide poisoning, but it would still only maybe cut the times you listed in half or maybe a quarter.
SBMC 11-02-05, 08:02 AM	the problem by using weight as measurement is that size matters more when you're trying to fit items into a bag. Except for money and gems, most items will never fit the weight capacity of any bag, and the capacity is generally what the bag can take before it breaks. So when you're trying to fit 4 leather armor and 7 longswords into your bag, weight is pretty much irrelevantm while space is everything. But it's true, it would perhaps be better with some simplified system based off weight or something. Some items include dimensions suchs as Hewards Handy Haversack and a portable hole. The article noted above: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040406a Has the volume and weight for many things. It is part of the "going metric" rules opf the game series; but it happens to have a chart of this. I would hope that those charts; or ones like it; would be broken out and expanded upon in another article regarding carrying things. No one would know to look at "going metric" for this information.
wreintein 11-02-05, 08:44 AM	I ran into the same problem a while back then I was calculating the things needed by the party to drag the massive treasury back to the village. So after some research I found draconomic stating that 50 coins go into 1 lb and that 12.000 loosely stacked coins take up 1 ft^3. Using these numbers I desiced I would use to calculate the volume from the mass the density 240 lb/ft^3. Which should be approximately correct as many solid have roughly the same density and many items are foldable (even armours can be taken apart most of the time, so the bits can be stacked neatly taking up less space). A conversion measure is certqainly needed when the portable hole makes it's apperence (this has no weigth limit) As for the interdimensional oxygen. I just use 10 minute rule. And my party often uses it's bag and hole (though never simultaneous :( ) for transportation. The calculations made seem however very plausible. And you wouldn't suffer from CO2 poisoning after that time. The calculation is made using the fact you breath every volume once. And each time a normal human only uses a quarter or so of the oxygen in the air. So you could even go on longer that the estimated times, but then things would get worse for you.
Despana 11-02-05, 11:37 AM	Interdimensional oxygen used to bug me too. A portable hole with standard dimenions holds roughly 32,010 litres of air. The average breath for a typical adult human is about 0.5 litres, in and out. That's 64,000 breaths, give or take; at 12 inhalations/exhalations per minute you're looking more at 5333 minutes, or [rounding again for sake of ease] 88 hours. Beats the ten minute rule by a mile. A Type I bag of holding, on the other hand, holds 30 cubic feet. One cubic foot = 28.3169 L, so the bag has roughly 850 L of air. At 500 mL/breath that means 1,700 breaths; 12 full breaths [inhalation and exhalation] per minute actually gives you 140 minutes of air, roughly. You can probably see the trend for yourself. Bear in mind this doesn't account for the amount of air displaced by anything curently residing in the extradimensional space, the breathing creature included! If you don't like the math, or just prefer the DMG rules, by all means, use what the books present. It's all in fun. However, if you like to inject a little science here and there, then consider letting characters breathe a little easier in their extradimensional containers. Just don't encourage them to start a campfire. If you want to get this technical you also have to factor in the volume of air that the person would displace out of the bag, hole, etc. When all is said and done it's probably just better to go with the 10-minute rule.
Sulaco 11-02-05, 11:48 AM	However, a portable hole is a 6' diameter by 10' deep hole and it can only carry enough air for 1 medium sized creature for 10 minutes. A standard SCUBA tank contains 80 cu. ft. of air can easily provide enough air for an hour dive. A portable hole is roughly 282 cu. ft. and provides enough air for just 10 minutes. :uh-huh: Even if you assume the person inside is massive and takes up a staggering 36 cu. ft. (2'x3'x6') then that leaves 246 cu. ft., which should be enough for at least 3 hours. BTW, a portable hole only holds about 8,000 litres, not 32,010 (which would be about 1,130 cu. ft.)