caster level with multiclassing [Archive] - Wizards Community

caster level with multiclassing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
goknights
03-23-05, 04:51 AM i have a player who took his first level in wizard and the next 3 in warmage. when a warmage spell does say 1d6 a level, does it do 3d6 using just the warlock class levels or 4d6 and include the wizard level? he is feeling like the wizard level is a wasted level and provides no benefit to his character while preventing his warmage spells from being as potent as they should be at his ECL.
Telperion
03-23-05, 04:57 AM 3d6

You can have several arcane spell casting classes and their levels do not stack to improve your Spells Per Day, Spells Known or Caster Level.

Some Prestige Classes allow you to continue your Spell Progression in either the Wizard or the Warmage, but not in both. When you cast spells you cast as either a Wizard or a Warmage, but in no way do the two classes' spellcasting ability stack.
ECOM
03-23-05, 07:22 AM I have not seen it said anywhere that caster levels do not stack or that they do stack. although I would be inclined to judge that the rules intend them to not stack.

I personally allow classes to stack for caster level only (not spell progresion) as long as the spell is on both list and they are of the same type. in your example of a warmage 3 wiz. 1 the caster level for fireball would be 4 but for an identify spell caster level would be 1 (note he should not be able to cast fireball untill he get a 3rd level spell slot)

I also devide magic into 4 types (Arcane, Divine, Musical, Nature)

I have not noticed any inbalance
Nom
03-23-05, 08:03 AM I have not seen it said anywhere that caster levels do not stack or that they do stack. although I would be inclined to judge that the rules intend them to not stack.For starters you could try PH pg 305: "Generally, a spell's caster level is the spellcaster's class level". PH pg 171 and PH pg 181 say the same thing, although pg 171 is more explicit: "in the class you're using to cast the spell".
ECOM
03-23-05, 07:44 PM For starters you could try PH pg 305: "Generally, a spell's caster level is the spellcaster's class level". PH pg 171 and PH pg 181 say the same thing, although pg 171 is more explicit: "in the class you're using to cast the spell".

None of these pages specificly says that they do or do not stack. They do however imply that they would not stack. Which was my point.

I personally like to allow them to stack
Nom
03-23-05, 09:29 PM None of these pages specificly says that they do or do not stack. They do however imply that they would not stack. Which was my point.They do more than imply. Your caster level "is equal to your class level in the class you're using to cast the spell". Unless you want a quote saying "anything not included in the above sentence is excluded" (which is typically taken for granted in rulebooks), it doesn't get more explicit than that.

Analogy: "You get 1 point for each blue dog." "What about red dogs? If it doesn't say that I don't get a point for red dogs, I should be able to add them too."

If you feel that multiclassing a caster is too weak, perhaps consider adding 1 CL for every two levels outside the casting class (similar to the 1 per 4 given for multiclass monks and Stunning Fist). Allowing 1 per 1 is tying the power of a class-based special ability to HD rather than class level, and there are very few class-based abilities that do so. Skimming the classes section of the PH, the only one I could find is familiars, whose HD (and hp), BAB, saves and skills are based on the master's character level (or character level derived bonuses). Note that familiar special abilities are still based on the master's class level.
Burgundy Lotus
03-23-05, 09:29 PM in this case they do not stack according to the RAW, PrCs which do stack with base classes so so in their descriptions somewhere, none of the base classes do as far as I know.
Sildatorak
03-23-05, 09:42 PM The levels won't stack for casting purposes, though he could take the practiced caster feat to help ammeliorate that. If you are feeling generous and the player took wizard first, then a new book was introduced that made him think "hey warmages are cool and fit my character idea better" you may just want to let him swap that level of wizard for a level of warmage if it won't cause too much plot discontinuity.
Elven Doritos
03-23-05, 09:49 PM The Magic Rating system, as presented in Unearthed Arcana, allows for multiclass characters with any spellcasting class to increase there caster level to some degree. As this is a variant, the standard rule is that classes do not stack for spellcasting.

When I have more time, or if someone else cares to type it up, the rule is found on pages 135-136 of UA.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
goknights 03-23-05, 04:51 AM	i have a player who took his first level in wizard and the next 3 in warmage. when a warmage spell does say 1d6 a level, does it do 3d6 using just the warlock class levels or 4d6 and include the wizard level? he is feeling like the wizard level is a wasted level and provides no benefit to his character while preventing his warmage spells from being as potent as they should be at his ECL.
Telperion 03-23-05, 04:57 AM	3d6 You can have several arcane spell casting classes and their levels do not stack to improve your Spells Per Day, Spells Known or Caster Level. Some Prestige Classes allow you to continue your Spell Progression in either the Wizard or the Warmage, but not in both. When you cast spells you cast as either a Wizard or a Warmage, but in no way do the two classes' spellcasting ability stack.
ECOM 03-23-05, 07:22 AM	I have not seen it said anywhere that caster levels do not stack or that they do stack. although I would be inclined to judge that the rules intend them to not stack. I personally allow classes to stack for caster level only (not spell progresion) as long as the spell is on both list and they are of the same type. in your example of a warmage 3 wiz. 1 the caster level for fireball would be 4 but for an identify spell caster level would be 1 (note he should not be able to cast fireball untill he get a 3rd level spell slot) I also devide magic into 4 types (Arcane, Divine, Musical, Nature) I have not noticed any inbalance
Nom 03-23-05, 08:03 AM	I have not seen it said anywhere that caster levels do not stack or that they do stack. although I would be inclined to judge that the rules intend them to not stack.For starters you could try PH pg 305: "Generally, a spell's caster level is the spellcaster's class level". PH pg 171 and PH pg 181 say the same thing, although pg 171 is more explicit: "in the class you're using to cast the spell".
ECOM 03-23-05, 07:44 PM	For starters you could try PH pg 305: "Generally, a spell's caster level is the spellcaster's class level". PH pg 171 and PH pg 181 say the same thing, although pg 171 is more explicit: "in the class you're using to cast the spell". None of these pages specificly says that they do or do not stack. They do however imply that they would not stack. Which was my point. I personally like to allow them to stack
Nom 03-23-05, 09:29 PM	None of these pages specificly says that they do or do not stack. They do however imply that they would not stack. Which was my point.They do more than imply. Your caster level "is equal to your class level in the class you're using to cast the spell". Unless you want a quote saying "anything not included in the above sentence is excluded" (which is typically taken for granted in rulebooks), it doesn't get more explicit than that. Analogy: "You get 1 point for each blue dog." "What about red dogs? If it doesn't say that I don't get a point for red dogs, I should be able to add them too." If you feel that multiclassing a caster is too weak, perhaps consider adding 1 CL for every two levels outside the casting class (similar to the 1 per 4 given for multiclass monks and Stunning Fist). Allowing 1 per 1 is tying the power of a class-based special ability to HD rather than class level, and there are very few class-based abilities that do so. Skimming the classes section of the PH, the only one I could find is familiars, whose HD (and hp), BAB, saves and skills are based on the master's character level (or character level derived bonuses). Note that familiar special abilities are still based on the master's class level.
Burgundy Lotus 03-23-05, 09:29 PM	in this case they do not stack according to the RAW, PrCs which do stack with base classes so so in their descriptions somewhere, none of the base classes do as far as I know.
Sildatorak 03-23-05, 09:42 PM	The levels won't stack for casting purposes, though he could take the practiced caster feat to help ammeliorate that. If you are feeling generous and the player took wizard first, then a new book was introduced that made him think "hey warmages are cool and fit my character idea better" you may just want to let him swap that level of wizard for a level of warmage if it won't cause too much plot discontinuity.
Elven Doritos 03-23-05, 09:49 PM	The Magic Rating system, as presented in Unearthed Arcana, allows for multiclass characters with any spellcasting class to increase there caster level to some degree. As this is a variant, the standard rule is that classes do not stack for spellcasting. When I have more time, or if someone else cares to type it up, the rule is found on pages 135-136 of UA.