Caster level [Archive] - Wizards Community

Caster level [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jacilla
07-16-07, 06:49 PM A question came up during my last session. Do caster levels stack? I have a player who has a 2nd level Druid/1st level Bard (she's aiming for Geomancer and needed the arcane spell casting levels). The rule on caster level does state "A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell." However, she's still a 3rd level character and with the Druid and Bard both having some of the same spells on their spell lists, would she cast say ... Cure Light Wounds ... as a second level (Druid) caster, or can she, since she is 3rd level, cast said spell as a third level caster?
Since the spell description of Cure Light Wounds allows a +1 per caster level, this would make her Cure Light a bit better and could conceivably have greater effects later on. Has anyone out there ruled on this before? Is this covered in any book? Uhm .... help?
Femme_Undead_Lover
07-16-07, 08:19 PM The caster level is equal to the level of the class in which you are choosing the spell.

The SRD says:

"CASTER LEVEL
A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell." (MAGIC OVERVIEW) - It's in the Player's Handbook

So... for example, I'm Dorikuu a 5th level Sorcerer / 4th level Cleric... And I wanto to cast a Magic Missile (Spell level 1).

My Caster Level for Magic Missile is 5, because the spell is ARCANE (sorcerer), and it doesn't stack with the DIVINE (cleric).
If I'd like to cast a Cure Light Wounds (Spell level 1), my caster level is 4, because on divine Magic I'm in lvl 4.

Hope it is useful for you!
Kouk
07-16-07, 08:21 PM A question came up during my last session. Do caster levels stack? I have a player who has a 2nd level Druid/1st level Bard (she's aiming for Geomancer and needed the arcane spell casting levels). The rule on caster level does state "A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell." However, she's still a 3rd level character and with the Druid and Bard both having some of the same spells on their spell lists, would she cast say ... Cure Light Wounds ... as a second level (Druid) caster, or can she, since she is 3rd level, cast said spell as a third level caster?
Since the spell description of Cure Light Wounds allows a +1 per caster level, this would make her Cure Light a bit better and could conceivably have greater effects later on. Has anyone out there ruled on this before? Is this covered in any book? Uhm .... help?

You said it yourself already, "A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you're using to cast the spell."

Your caster levels are dependent on your Class Levels when using base classes. Class Levels are not Character Levels, a Class Level is specifically your level in any single class, while your Character Level is all your classes together. With no special feats, a Bard spell is completely separate from a Druid spell, even if they have the same name and effects. For one thing, Druids cast Divine spells, while (even if it is a cure spell) Bards cast Arcane spells. You must keep your spell list and spells known separate for each class, and likewise you keep your Caster Levels separate.

There are exceptions to be had. You may have noticed that many Prestige Classes build upon existing spellcasting powers. The Geometer for instance gains "spells known and spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level." This would mean that your Bard levels would stack with the Geometer levels to determine your spells known, spells per day, and Caster Level. This in no way benefits your druid spellcasting, as Geometer specifically states "Arcane" spellcasting class, which a Druid is not.

There is also the feat Practiced Spellcaster, which appears in both Complete Arcane and Complete Divine. This feat raises your Caster Level by 4, up to your total HD. You must specifically choose one of your spellcasting classes if you have more than one. This feat would boost one of your class's Caster Level by up to four. If you are using your Druid 2 / Bard 1 as an example, you could use Practiced Spellcaster to raise your Druid Caster Level to 3, or your Bard Caster Level to 3 (3 is your Hit Dice, and the feat cannot grant Caster Levels beyond that). When you level up to 4th level, if you choose to put that level as a Druid, making you have an actual Druid Caster level of 3, you could use Practiced Spellcaster to have your Druid Caster Level count as if it were 4 (your new HD) OR your Bard Caster Level equal to 4 (your new HD) depending on which class you originally assigned the feat to.

If you are dedicated to multiclassing like this you can take the feat once for each spellcasting class you have, but they will not push any particular class's Caster Level beyond 4 levels.

To be brief though, Caster Levels do not stack except in the case of certain Prestige Classes that grant you casting power "as a spellcasting class you belonged to before taking this prestige class".
Jacilla
07-17-07, 03:15 AM The caster level is equal to the level of the class in which you are choosing the spell.

The SRD says:

"CASTER LEVEL
A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell." (MAGIC OVERVIEW) - It's in the Player's Handbook

So... for example, I'm Dorikuu a 5th level Sorcerer / 4th level Cleric... And I wanto to cast a Magic Missile (Spell level 1).

My Caster Level for Magic Missile is 5, because the spell is ARCANE (sorcerer), and it doesn't stack with the DIVINE (cleric).
If I'd like to cast a Cure Light Wounds (Spell level 1), my caster level is 4, because on divine Magic I'm in lvl 4.

Hope it is useful for you!

This is exactly my point, everything uses Arcane spells (Magic Missile) vs Divine spells (Cure Light Wounds), what my player is talking about is the same spell ... exactly the same spell, i.e. Cure Light Wounds, which both classes have.

Naturally there is no question concerning two entirely different spells but the Druid, Cleric and Bard (since quite a few of the Bard's spells are actually Divine) have a number of spells in common which is why the question came up in the first place. Another question might be, are all the Bard's spells Arcane, since no other Arcane caster has Cure Light Wounds for instance?

So no, this isn't particularly useful.

Also, the SRD (bless it's ambiguous little heart) qualifies it's statement with this little gem " ... which for most spellcasting characters ..." the key word being most. So again we're at the crossroads of ... what about the "other" spellcasters, the ones that don't fall into the "most" category?

Comments?
Leilond
07-17-07, 03:30 AM Your castin your spell memorized by which of your classes?

If you are a wizard 10/Sorceror 5 and you cast "magic missile", which caster level?
Did you used a memorized wizard spell? Caster level = 10
Did you used a sorceror spell slot? Caster level = 5
EchoXero
07-17-07, 03:33 AM In this case, the cure light wounds that he could cast as a druid, IS NOT the same spell as the one he can cast as a Bard. If he prepares it on his druid spell list, he is using a divine version of it, while if he has it on his spell list as a bard, it is an acane version. Cast as a druid, he would have a +2 to the hps restored and cast as a bard, he would only have +1. I hope this helps.
Jacilla
07-17-07, 03:50 AM In this case, the cure light wounds that he could cast as a druid, IS NOT the same spell as the one he can cast as a Bard. If he prepares it on his druid spell list, he is using a divine version of it, while if he has it on his spell list as a bard, it is an acane version. Cast as a druid, he would have a +2 to the hps restored and cast as a bard, he would only have +1. I hope this helps.

*Sigh* There is no Arcane version of Cure Light Wounds this is the reason we have a question.

Your castin your spell memorized by which of your classes?

If you are a wizard 10/Sorceror 5 and you cast "magic missile", which caster level?
Did you used a memorized wizard spell? Caster level = 10
Did you used a sorceror spell slot? Caster level = 5

Leilond, what part of Druid/Bard did you not understand?
Nebosuke
07-17-07, 04:13 AM The type (arcane vs divine) is determined entirely by the mechanic used to cast the spell. Because the Bard's casting is arcane, all spells he casts are arcane spells, even if they also appear on the spell lists of divine casters.

The same is true for divine casters casting otherwise arcane-only spells (e.g., through domains).
Fireclave
07-17-07, 04:22 AM This is exactly my point, everything uses Arcane spells (Magic Missile) vs Divine spells (Cure Light Wounds), what my player is talking about is the same spell ... exactly the same spell, i.e. Cure Light Wounds, which both classes have.

Naturally there is no question concerning two entirely different spells but the Druid, Cleric and Bard (since quite a few of the Bard's spells are actually Divine) have a number of spells in common which is why the question came up in the first place. Another question might be, are all the Bard's spells Arcane, since no other Arcane caster has Cure Light Wounds for instance?
The spellcasting for each of your classes are tracked separately, regardless of whether those classes contain the same, or similar, spells.

A Bard 3/Cleric 4/ Druid 5 could cast Cure Light Wounds (or any spell on their respective lists) as a 3rd level Bard, 4th level Cleric, or 5th level Druid. He could not cast Cure Light Wounds as a 12th level caster. The caster levels do not stack.

Also, for the sake of completeness, you can't power the spells of one class with the spell slots of another. The above example character, for example, can't cast his CL 5 druid cure light wounds using a 1st level spell slot from his bard spells per day. But you probably already knew that ;)

And yes, all of the bard's spells are arcane spells (none of them are divine at all). And yes again, the bard is the only core arcane class capable of casting cure spells. Bards rock.

Also, the SRD (bless it's ambiguous little heart) qualifies it's statement with this little gem " ... which for most spellcasting characters ..." the key word being most. So again we're at the crossroads of ... what about the "other" spellcasters, the ones that don't fall into the "most" category?

Comments?
Most, but not all, caster have a caster level equal to their class level. Rangers, Paladins, and Hexblades (Complete Warrior) have a caster level equal to half their class level (rounded down). A 5th level ranger, for example, has a caster level of 2.

There may be other situations that change this as well. Prestige classes that grant spell caster will make it so that your caster level no longer equals your class level. A Bard 6/ Loremaster 4 would cast spells as a 10th level bard.

And for more craziness, their also the Practice spell caster feat that increases the CL for one of your classes by up to +4 (with your max CL being no higher than your total HD), but does not increase your spell per day/spells known. So a Fighter 7/ Sorcerer 2 with the Practiced Spellcaster feat would have a sorcerer caster level of 6, but the spells per day and spells known of a 2nd level sorcerer.

*Sigh* There is no Arcane version of Cure Light Wounds this is the reason we have a question.
There is. Bards cast all of their spells as arcane spells. Therefore, a bard's Cure spells are arcane.

Leilond, what part of Druid/Bard did you not understand?
What Leilond said applied perfectly to this situation. Leilond's example of the wizard and sorcerer, two different classes with exactly the same spellcasting list, illustrates that two classes sharing the same spell on their spell lists do not stack caster levels with one another. Be it magic missile with the wizard/sorcerer, cure light wounds with the druid/bard, or danger sense with the psion/psychic warrior.
Jacilla
07-17-07, 04:32 AM ...Most, but not all, caster have a caster level equal to their class level. Rangers, Paladins, and Hexblades (Complete Warrior) have a caster level equal to half their class level (rounded down). A 5th level ranger, for example, has a caster level of 2....

Thank you, this is what I was looking for, the definition of "most" I'd not thought of the casting levels of Rangers etal. Now at least I can throw that "most" out to my players and say, no, this is what they were talking about when they said ... yeah.

BTW ... Done now, thanks all.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jacilla 07-16-07, 06:49 PM	A question came up during my last session. Do caster levels stack? I have a player who has a 2nd level Druid/1st level Bard (she's aiming for Geomancer and needed the arcane spell casting levels). The rule on caster level does state "A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell." However, she's still a 3rd level character and with the Druid and Bard both having some of the same spells on their spell lists, would she cast say ... Cure Light Wounds ... as a second level (Druid) caster, or can she, since she is 3rd level, cast said spell as a third level caster? Since the spell description of Cure Light Wounds allows a +1 per caster level, this would make her Cure Light a bit better and could conceivably have greater effects later on. Has anyone out there ruled on this before? Is this covered in any book? Uhm .... help?
Femme_Undead_Lover 07-16-07, 08:19 PM	The caster level is equal to the level of the class in which you are choosing the spell. The SRD says: "CASTER LEVEL A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell." (MAGIC OVERVIEW) - It's in the Player's Handbook So... for example, I'm Dorikuu a 5th level Sorcerer / 4th level Cleric... And I wanto to cast a Magic Missile (Spell level 1). My Caster Level for Magic Missile is 5, because the spell is ARCANE (sorcerer), and it doesn't stack with the DIVINE (cleric). If I'd like to cast a Cure Light Wounds (Spell level 1), my caster level is 4, because on divine Magic I'm in lvl 4. Hope it is useful for you!
Kouk 07-16-07, 08:21 PM	A question came up during my last session. Do caster levels stack? I have a player who has a 2nd level Druid/1st level Bard (she's aiming for Geomancer and needed the arcane spell casting levels). The rule on caster level does state "A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell." However, she's still a 3rd level character and with the Druid and Bard both having some of the same spells on their spell lists, would she cast say ... Cure Light Wounds ... as a second level (Druid) caster, or can she, since she is 3rd level, cast said spell as a third level caster? Since the spell description of Cure Light Wounds allows a +1 per caster level, this would make her Cure Light a bit better and could conceivably have greater effects later on. Has anyone out there ruled on this before? Is this covered in any book? Uhm .... help? You said it yourself already, "A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you're using to cast the spell." Your caster levels are dependent on your Class Levels when using base classes. Class Levels are not Character Levels, a Class Level is specifically your level in any single class, while your Character Level is all your classes together. With no special feats, a Bard spell is completely separate from a Druid spell, even if they have the same name and effects. For one thing, Druids cast Divine spells, while (even if it is a cure spell) Bards cast Arcane spells. You must keep your spell list and spells known separate for each class, and likewise you keep your Caster Levels separate. There are exceptions to be had. You may have noticed that many Prestige Classes build upon existing spellcasting powers. The Geometer for instance gains "spells known and spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level." This would mean that your Bard levels would stack with the Geometer levels to determine your spells known, spells per day, and Caster Level. This in no way benefits your druid spellcasting, as Geometer specifically states "Arcane" spellcasting class, which a Druid is not. There is also the feat Practiced Spellcaster, which appears in both Complete Arcane and Complete Divine. This feat raises your Caster Level by 4, up to your total HD. You must specifically choose one of your spellcasting classes if you have more than one. This feat would boost one of your class's Caster Level by up to four. If you are using your Druid 2 / Bard 1 as an example, you could use Practiced Spellcaster to raise your Druid Caster Level to 3, or your Bard Caster Level to 3 (3 is your Hit Dice, and the feat cannot grant Caster Levels beyond that). When you level up to 4th level, if you choose to put that level as a Druid, making you have an actual Druid Caster level of 3, you could use Practiced Spellcaster to have your Druid Caster Level count as if it were 4 (your new HD) OR your Bard Caster Level equal to 4 (your new HD) depending on which class you originally assigned the feat to. If you are dedicated to multiclassing like this you can take the feat once for each spellcasting class you have, but they will not push any particular class's Caster Level beyond 4 levels. To be brief though, Caster Levels do not stack except in the case of certain Prestige Classes that grant you casting power "as a spellcasting class you belonged to before taking this prestige class".
Jacilla 07-17-07, 03:15 AM	The caster level is equal to the level of the class in which you are choosing the spell. The SRD says: "CASTER LEVEL A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell." (MAGIC OVERVIEW) - It's in the Player's Handbook So... for example, I'm Dorikuu a 5th level Sorcerer / 4th level Cleric... And I wanto to cast a Magic Missile (Spell level 1). My Caster Level for Magic Missile is 5, because the spell is ARCANE (sorcerer), and it doesn't stack with the DIVINE (cleric). If I'd like to cast a Cure Light Wounds (Spell level 1), my caster level is 4, because on divine Magic I'm in lvl 4. Hope it is useful for you! This is exactly my point, everything uses Arcane spells (Magic Missile) vs Divine spells (Cure Light Wounds), what my player is talking about is the same spell ... exactly the same spell, i.e. Cure Light Wounds, which both classes have. Naturally there is no question concerning two entirely different spells but the Druid, Cleric and Bard (since quite a few of the Bard's spells are actually Divine) have a number of spells in common which is why the question came up in the first place. Another question might be, are all the Bard's spells Arcane, since no other Arcane caster has Cure Light Wounds for instance? So no, this isn't particularly useful. Also, the SRD (bless it's ambiguous little heart) qualifies it's statement with this little gem " ... which for most spellcasting characters ..." the key word being most. So again we're at the crossroads of ... what about the "other" spellcasters, the ones that don't fall into the "most" category? Comments?
Leilond 07-17-07, 03:30 AM	Your castin your spell memorized by which of your classes? If you are a wizard 10/Sorceror 5 and you cast "magic missile", which caster level? Did you used a memorized wizard spell? Caster level = 10 Did you used a sorceror spell slot? Caster level = 5
EchoXero 07-17-07, 03:33 AM	In this case, the cure light wounds that he could cast as a druid, IS NOT the same spell as the one he can cast as a Bard. If he prepares it on his druid spell list, he is using a divine version of it, while if he has it on his spell list as a bard, it is an acane version. Cast as a druid, he would have a +2 to the hps restored and cast as a bard, he would only have +1. I hope this helps.
Jacilla 07-17-07, 03:50 AM	In this case, the cure light wounds that he could cast as a druid, IS NOT the same spell as the one he can cast as a Bard. If he prepares it on his druid spell list, he is using a divine version of it, while if he has it on his spell list as a bard, it is an acane version. Cast as a druid, he would have a +2 to the hps restored and cast as a bard, he would only have +1. I hope this helps. Sigh There is no Arcane version of Cure Light Wounds this is the reason we have a question. Your castin your spell memorized by which of your classes? If you are a wizard 10/Sorceror 5 and you cast "magic missile", which caster level? Did you used a memorized wizard spell? Caster level = 10 Did you used a sorceror spell slot? Caster level = 5 Leilond, what part of Druid/Bard did you not understand?
Nebosuke 07-17-07, 04:13 AM	The type (arcane vs divine) is determined entirely by the mechanic used to cast the spell. Because the Bard's casting is arcane, all spells he casts are arcane spells, even if they also appear on the spell lists of divine casters. The same is true for divine casters casting otherwise arcane-only spells (e.g., through domains).
Fireclave 07-17-07, 04:22 AM	This is exactly my point, everything uses Arcane spells (Magic Missile) vs Divine spells (Cure Light Wounds), what my player is talking about is the same spell ... exactly the same spell, i.e. Cure Light Wounds, which both classes have. Naturally there is no question concerning two entirely different spells but the Druid, Cleric and Bard (since quite a few of the Bard's spells are actually Divine) have a number of spells in common which is why the question came up in the first place. Another question might be, are all the Bard's spells Arcane, since no other Arcane caster has Cure Light Wounds for instance? The spellcasting for each of your classes are tracked separately, regardless of whether those classes contain the same, or similar, spells. A Bard 3/Cleric 4/ Druid 5 could cast Cure Light Wounds (or any spell on their respective lists) as a 3rd level Bard, 4th level Cleric, or 5th level Druid. He could not cast Cure Light Wounds as a 12th level caster. The caster levels do not stack. Also, for the sake of completeness, you can't power the spells of one class with the spell slots of another. The above example character, for example, can't cast his CL 5 druid cure light wounds using a 1st level spell slot from his bard spells per day. But you probably already knew that ;) And yes, all of the bard's spells are arcane spells (none of them are divine at all). And yes again, the bard is the only core arcane class capable of casting cure spells. Bards rock. Also, the SRD (bless it's ambiguous little heart) qualifies it's statement with this little gem " ... which for most spellcasting characters ..." the key word being most. So again we're at the crossroads of ... what about the "other" spellcasters, the ones that don't fall into the "most" category? Comments? Most, but not all, caster have a caster level equal to their class level. Rangers, Paladins, and Hexblades (Complete Warrior) have a caster level equal to half their class level (rounded down). A 5th level ranger, for example, has a caster level of 2. There may be other situations that change this as well. Prestige classes that grant spell caster will make it so that your caster level no longer equals your class level. A Bard 6/ Loremaster 4 would cast spells as a 10th level bard. And for more craziness, their also the Practice spell caster feat that increases the CL for one of your classes by up to +4 (with your max CL being no higher than your total HD), but does not increase your spell per day/spells known. So a Fighter 7/ Sorcerer 2 with the Practiced Spellcaster feat would have a sorcerer caster level of 6, but the spells per day and spells known of a 2nd level sorcerer. Sigh There is no Arcane version of Cure Light Wounds this is the reason we have a question. There is. Bards cast all of their spells as arcane spells. Therefore, a bard's Cure spells are arcane. Leilond, what part of Druid/Bard did you not understand? What Leilond said applied perfectly to this situation. Leilond's example of the wizard and sorcerer, two different classes with exactly the same spellcasting list, illustrates that two classes sharing the same spell on their spell lists do not stack caster levels with one another. Be it magic missile with the wizard/sorcerer, cure light wounds with the druid/bard, or danger sense with the psion/psychic warrior.
Jacilla 07-17-07, 04:32 AM	...Most, but not all, caster have a caster level equal to their class level. Rangers, Paladins, and Hexblades (Complete Warrior) have a caster level equal to half their class level (rounded down). A 5th level ranger, for example, has a caster level of 2.... Thank you, this is what I was looking for, the definition of "most" I'd not thought of the casting levels of Rangers etal. Now at least I can throw that "most" out to my players and say, no, this is what they were talking about when they said ... yeah. BTW ... Done now, thanks all.