Post/Author/DateTime	Post
shaga 07-28-06, 03:02 PM	A caster with ranks on spellcraft skill can easily identify a illusion spell (like mislead) and can react like he has succeed on the save even if he has not. He is not even metagaming because as a caster with knowledge on spells knows exactly what the spell does (especially if he has that spell on his repertoire). Effectively his spellcraft becomes his will save and spellcraft tends to be very high. So what can I do to trick a caster with illusions? Or is it that casters just don`t get tricked by them and that’s it?
Stumm_Dolch 07-28-06, 03:19 PM	I assume you are referring to spells being cast in combat or in view of the defending caster. The caster making the spellcraft check must see or hear the somatic/verbal component while the spell is being cast. Still Spell/Silent Spell work to overcome that. If they make the check, even though they know an illusion is on the way I would rule they must still make the saves required, but possibly with a +2 synergy bonus from the successfull spellcraft check (not RAW, but a possible houserule). I say this because in the back of the caster's mind they know Illusions can hurt (ooc on a failed willsave). Phantasmal Killer is a spell that's identifiable by a defending caster with a spellcraft check but that doesn't mean that the vision of whatever he fears most doesn't still scare him to death.
Phoenix Knight 07-28-06, 03:20 PM	In the case of mislead, if the mage saw the other caster cast it and passed his Spellcraft check, that's his fair reward for the skill points invested in the skill. In a normal game, Spellcraft is really only good for just that - identifying spells (possibly for a counterspell). There's no real reason to gimp the character for his investment. Of course, the fact that he knows the double is illusory doesn't change the fact he doesn't know where the real caster is, or that most of the rest of the group won't know until he tells them (which grants them a +4 bonus on their saves).
Delfedd 07-28-06, 03:24 PM	I think that what the rules refer to is the casting of a spell that creates an illusion, silent image or the like.
Gate Master 07-28-06, 04:01 PM	a couple ideas to help your illusionist avoid casters spotting their castings. 1) cast while hiding, or remaining out of sight This will require an additional check to even be noticed. typically, casters dont have good spot checks, so if your dexterity is decent (especially if your an elf or other dexterous race) then you can hide well enough to give yourself a chance agienst them. If your an Arcane trickster character, or have ready access to invisibility, then you'd be even better at hiding... afterall, creating illusions isn't in itself a hostile action. Even if the target can still hear you, that at least gives you an edge agienst spellcraft checks. 2) Sleight of Hand Yes, i know casters dont get sleight of hand... but there is a varient skill rule (Page 133, Races of Stone) that allows you to 'hide' your somatic and verbal components from other casters, forcing them to make a spot check. Just like hiding, this will give you an edge agienst other casters, since they have poor spot checks. the only drawback is you'll need to take at least 1 rank in the skill, as it's trained only. 3) Spell Thematics Adding +4 to Spellcraft DCs, Spell Thematics can provide you that extra edge agienst Casters. Im sure there are other feats or class features you can use to help increase either the DC to spot illusion spells when they're being cast, or other abilities to conceal such actions, but none come to mind aside from these.