Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Epicweaver 01-30-06, 04:03 PM	I'm planning on running Skip Williams adventure called Cave of Spiders (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20041126a) which is tailored to a party of four 9th level characters. I'm running with a group of mixed experience (couple veterans and a couple newbies). And this will essentially be the first 'dungeon' with these new characters (don't ask, they all wanted to play higher levels "this time"... but without the extra practice behind them). Four 8th level characters.... drow samurai, aasimar favored soul, azurin warmage, and human scout I've tried to scale it down a bit (to account for whatever shortcomings they might have), and Skip didn't include any scaling notation... so I'm running this all by you veterans. Area 1 - Reduced number of bugbear War3 from (3) to (2) Area 2 - Changed enemies from Monstrous Spider, Huge (2) to Monstrous Spider, Large (4) Area 4 - Reduced number of bugbear War3 from (3) to (2) Area 5A - Reduced number of bugbear War3 from (6) to (5) Area 6 - Changed enemies from Monstrous Spider, Huge (2) to Monstrous Spider, Large (4) Area 8 - Reduced number of aranea from (4) to (3) Now I ask you... Did I castrate this adventure? Should I tone down the scaling and just remove an encounter or something? What do you think? How would you scale this one?
Illion the Red 01-30-06, 04:09 PM	I avoid canned adventures so I can't really help you with the scaling, but I was just struck with overwhelming curiosity... How in the world did... Four 8th level characters.... drow samurai, aasimar favored soul, azurin warmage, and human scout actually come together as an adventuring party? There has to be a great story behind this disparate group forming...
Epicweaver 01-30-06, 04:28 PM	I avoid canned adventures so I can't really help you with the scaling, but I was just struck with overwhelming curiosity... Actually this would be the first one I've ever used! I'm trying to improve my dungeon design so I figure running a couple 'canned' adventures will help me figure out what I like and what I don't... I stripped all the plot, names, and tweaked a bit to fit into my own campaign. But the dungeon mechanics are still all pretty much the same. How in the world did... actually come together as an adventuring party? There has to be a great story behind this disparate group forming... LOL! Well, ironically it all started in a tavern in the cities adventurer's district, and the opening scene (note, I was given no planning time aside from some basic city-building, about what people were actually going to play)... The opening scene put them all resting in a tavern common room, and ended with the tavern exploding (blast you taverns!) in a massive fireball. A suspicious maybe-BBEG fleeing the scene... and only people who survived (um, the only 8th level adventurers in the place... poor 1st level adventurers :( ) were left with the smoking gun... a couple of whom were trying to lay low and avoid any contact with the local authorities... So, they followed the carrot into the sewers (I had alternate material prepared and wasn't quite sure if they were going to take the hook or not, but they did). So a wonderful little sewer chase led to some party bonding... etc etc etc... It's an odd mix, but I guess my players are just starting to get bored playing the standard races (I wanna be a blue parrot named Squawers!). Ah well... It's all about their fun! ;)
Chobemaster 01-30-06, 04:29 PM	There has to be a great story behind this disparate group forming... Are you giving odds?
Lord Ian Stark 01-30-06, 04:58 PM	There's nothing wrong with running premade adventures and/or using them like you did for bits and pieces. I work so many hours a week, it's annoying, and it has a huge impact on how much time I have to prepare for the weeks game. For those who have more free time good on yah for making a full homebrew game. For those of us who work, and have other responsibilities time is not on our side. Anyhow, the party is only one level lower than suggested. Not a big deal IMO. How did the players make thier characters? Did they roll or point buy? How about items? Did they have the money an 8th level character would have and buy accordingly? Perhaps give them an extra item and call it even. I would run it as is and if the party seems to be getting beaten then adjust the creatures HP and future encounters. I think they'll do fine however as there are some veteran players in there.
Epicweaver 01-30-06, 05:11 PM	Anyhow, the party is only one level lower than suggested. Not a big deal IMO. How did the players make thier characters? Did they roll or point buy? How about items? Did they have the money an 8th level character would have and buy accordingly? Perhaps give them an extra item and call it even. 32 scaled point-buy, 27K starting gold. 3 highly optimized and 1 non-optimized. So your suggestion is to revert the adventure back to the adventures original encounters?
Astigrarndorer 01-30-06, 08:21 PM	Epicweaver, When running a "canned adventure" (which is time saver friendly) you don't have to cut out encounters or lower the number of enemies. For the party which you described I would keep the encounters listed in the adventure and see how they do for the first little while. Would you allow your PCs to flee the scene, rest up and come back for more...? Another handy-dandy little trick is to simply lower the enemies HP, easier to kill that way. Sure they might be 3rd level but they don't have to possess maximum hit points. Taper them down a little to suit your party. Another trick is that if by chance your PCs gets hit for mass damage adjust it down a little. Making tiny "adjustments" to numbers can mean life or death for your PCs. This adventure should be difficult for your PCs but if they use their brains they should come out alive. Also, another hint is to give the guarding bugbears some potions that the PCs might find useful. If there are any treasure spots or storage rooms throw some potions in there as well. Help your PCs succeed. If one or more PCs die (which could happen) don't feel so bad this is a difficult adventure. Maybe allow your PCs to flee and come back to do it all over again a little more the wiser. Happy Gaming. P.S. Let me know how the gaming session goes. I too, am going to run this adventure for my game. Any hints, ideas, info would be a big help. THANKS!
psionichamster 01-30-06, 08:38 PM	well, survival and success in this mission really depend on 2 things. 1. either overwhelming force against the bugbears, not letting HP fall too low to weaken you against the spiders. or 2. stealth and reconnoissance. see the bugbears early, and take them down in small groups (easy enough to do w. 4 x 8th lvl char's). also: some -baned gear makes it easier. my group ran through this at 8th lvl, but there were 6 of them. also: the wooden trapdoors/ladders can prove more deadly than the monsters in the cavern anyways. namaste' the hamster (btw, this is a very easy-to-run and fun encounter. all around quality pre-gen.) h
Lord Ian Stark 01-30-06, 08:49 PM	So your suggestion is to revert the adventure back to the adventures original encounters? Yes. Just leave it as is. Most modules I've ran the PC's walk over them if I don't add to the encounters. But that's my group as they've played this game for too many years. ;) Just leave it as is and see what happens. If it's really to hard for the PC's you can start to nerf the future encounters. But 1 level shouldn't really matter IMO.
Epicweaver 01-31-06, 09:12 AM	Thanks for all the insights. I'm going to revert the adventure back to the way it's written and see how they do..
Edymnion 01-31-06, 10:22 AM	Four 8th level characters.... drow samurai, aasimar favored soul, azurin warmage, and human scoutI hope you remembered to take LA into account first.