Celestial or half-celestial? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Celestial or half-celestial? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Aamaxu
01-14-08, 04:48 PM Hey, I seem to have a dilemma here. My problem being the following;

I run a campaign around the Asgardian pantheon. The campaign idea runs around the characters being "children of the Sun", created by Odin the Great One himself to defeat the vicious Ice Giant.

I have 5 players in my campaign. I am going to give them more and more hints how they are the "chosen ones", the whole setting being rather...well, epic in its essence. One of the original characters has dies already and should every one from the original cast die, I decide that the plan of the Gods has failed and the world ends in a turmoil (ending the campaign). So far they are level 2-4. Yes this might seem harsh but I like it and the players haven't found out the "truth"...yet.

But but but. So I am going to give them powers as they gain more knowledge of their quest. The party cleric has the Dream domain, so I give her (the character) visions time to time from her God's avatar.

Now,

Should I give the characters the half-celestial or the celestial template?

I've checked them both through. The celestial template seems rather "weak" in comparison to the "epicness of my campaign", but on the contrary the half-celestial might make them (4 in total) too powerful (I fear I can't make difficult enough encounters anymore) . Also, I wouldn't just give them power by snapping my finger. For instance, the cleric in my example has gained a +2 to her INT as part of her "ascension to celestial hood" (I checked the half-celestial ability adjustment and the player rolled randomly which ability she would gain the +2).

So,

half-celestial or celestial?

Any pointers much appreciated. Thanks.

Aamaxu
Prime32
01-14-08, 05:10 PM Think about what each template means.

Well, celestial creatures are versions of normal creatures that live on an Upper Plane, so there are celestial humans living in Celestia.

Half-celestials are the result of angels, archons, etc. mating with mortals.

But you can't make difficult enough encounters any more? The half-celestial template has a Level Adjustment of +4, meaning you should treat a character with the template as being four levels higher (eg. a 2nd level half-celestial fighter is a 6th-level character). I don't see how that makes things harder - just use monsters with CRs of 6 instead of 2.
pres_man
01-14-08, 05:35 PM I don't see how that makes things harder - just use monsters with CRs of 6 instead of 2.
:uh-huh: Sure if you want a TPK. A better idea would be to send more lower level CR creatures (raise the EL).
Heros_Backpack
01-14-08, 07:59 PM Have you looked at Aasimars as well? I seem to recall that they fall between celestial and half-celestial on the power scale.

Otherwise, you might like to look at converting the Dragon Disciple PRC from slow acquisition of the half-dragon template to ditto of half-celestial and using that as a scale for handing over their new powers.
Colmarr
01-15-08, 12:48 AM I'd recommend you check out Unearthed Arcana and specifically the bloodlines it contains.

The idea is that the PCs have blood connections to various monsters which show themselves in various abilities.

Although it's not directly relevant to "godly" PCs, it does give you a way to mechanically reflect "powerful mortals" in a way that the celestial templates don't quite achieve.

I'm specifically thinking of the giant bloodlines, which would make your PCs bigger and tougher than normal people.
Prime32
01-15-08, 07:18 AM This (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/sp) page might help
eamon
01-15-08, 07:47 AM Be careful with assuming that a LA+4 template means a character can handle encounters as if 4 levels higher. That's rarely the case. The LA's represent balance factors, represent the best possibility of power increase across differing PC's. In general, only PC's optimized with the template in mind will get anything like the full adjustment out of it. Spell casters almost always lose out, for instance. If you're going to consider them levels higher for encounter purposes, and they didn't choose to apply the template themselves, use the CR adjustment instead, as a starting point, and then make minor fixes as you go.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aamaxu 01-14-08, 04:48 PM	Hey, I seem to have a dilemma here. My problem being the following; I run a campaign around the Asgardian pantheon. The campaign idea runs around the characters being "children of the Sun", created by Odin the Great One himself to defeat the vicious Ice Giant. I have 5 players in my campaign. I am going to give them more and more hints how they are the "chosen ones", the whole setting being rather...well, epic in its essence. One of the original characters has dies already and should every one from the original cast die, I decide that the plan of the Gods has failed and the world ends in a turmoil (ending the campaign). So far they are level 2-4. Yes this might seem harsh but I like it and the players haven't found out the "truth"...yet. But but but. So I am going to give them powers as they gain more knowledge of their quest. The party cleric has the Dream domain, so I give her (the character) visions time to time from her God's avatar. Now, Should I give the characters the half-celestial or the celestial template? I've checked them both through. The celestial template seems rather "weak" in comparison to the "epicness of my campaign", but on the contrary the half-celestial might make them (4 in total) too powerful (I fear I can't make difficult enough encounters anymore) . Also, I wouldn't just give them power by snapping my finger. For instance, the cleric in my example has gained a +2 to her INT as part of her "ascension to celestial hood" (I checked the half-celestial ability adjustment and the player rolled randomly which ability she would gain the +2). So, half-celestial or celestial? Any pointers much appreciated. Thanks. Aamaxu
Prime32 01-14-08, 05:10 PM	Think about what each template means. Well, celestial creatures are versions of normal creatures that live on an Upper Plane, so there are celestial humans living in Celestia. Half-celestials are the result of angels, archons, etc. mating with mortals. But you can't make difficult enough encounters any more? The half-celestial template has a Level Adjustment of +4, meaning you should treat a character with the template as being four levels higher (eg. a 2nd level half-celestial fighter is a 6th-level character). I don't see how that makes things harder - just use monsters with CRs of 6 instead of 2.
pres_man 01-14-08, 05:35 PM	I don't see how that makes things harder - just use monsters with CRs of 6 instead of 2. :uh-huh: Sure if you want a TPK. A better idea would be to send more lower level CR creatures (raise the EL).
Heros_Backpack 01-14-08, 07:59 PM	Have you looked at Aasimars as well? I seem to recall that they fall between celestial and half-celestial on the power scale. Otherwise, you might like to look at converting the Dragon Disciple PRC from slow acquisition of the half-dragon template to ditto of half-celestial and using that as a scale for handing over their new powers.
Colmarr 01-15-08, 12:48 AM	I'd recommend you check out Unearthed Arcana and specifically the bloodlines it contains. The idea is that the PCs have blood connections to various monsters which show themselves in various abilities. Although it's not directly relevant to "godly" PCs, it does give you a way to mechanically reflect "powerful mortals" in a way that the celestial templates don't quite achieve. I'm specifically thinking of the giant bloodlines, which would make your PCs bigger and tougher than normal people.
Prime32 01-15-08, 07:18 AM	This (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/sp) page might help
eamon 01-15-08, 07:47 AM	Be careful with assuming that a LA+4 template means a character can handle encounters as if 4 levels higher. That's rarely the case. The LA's represent balance factors, represent the best possibility of power increase across differing PC's. In general, only PC's optimized with the template in mind will get anything like the full adjustment out of it. Spell casters almost always lose out, for instance. If you're going to consider them levels higher for encounter purposes, and they didn't choose to apply the template themselves, use the CR adjustment instead, as a starting point, and then make minor fixes as you go.