chain shirt under armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

chain shirt under armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
maddog0714
06-21-06, 11:47 AM Can a character wear a chain shirt (+2 chain shirt of fire resistance) under magical chainmail? and even if he could, would the AC bonus stack?
Also would a ring of protection +5 stack with magic armor since the ring is deflection bonus, and the armor is just armor bonus?
I would say no to the first question and yes to the second question
Please advise, Thanks
tierieanas
06-21-06, 11:51 AM you would be right.
supersod
06-21-06, 12:14 PM Q1. you could get a blacksmith to incorperate a chain shirt into your chainmail cost : 25gp
both abilities stack

Q2.sorry can't help you
Conflagration
06-21-06, 12:15 PM Your answers are correct. A character can only wear one magic item on any given body "slot". Only one ring on each hand, only one necklace, only one pair of boots ... and only one set of armor on the torso. As for the second part, as long as the bonuses granted are different they stack, so yeah it works.
tharivol266
06-21-06, 12:16 PM he can wear it but it wont do anything except add armor check penalties (armor is made to fit right up against you so if you had another layer it would make things worse) and you're right about the ring
Sulaco
06-21-06, 03:00 PM Can a character wear a chain shirt (+2 chain shirt of fire resistance) under magical chainmail?

Sure.

and even if he could, would the AC bonus stack?

No, but the armor check penalties, spell failure chance, and other negative modifers will. Said armor check penmelaties should probably apply to all physical activites, including using weapons, as the wearer is unusually encounbered and his movements abnormally restricted.

Also would a ring of protection +5 stack with magic armor since the ring is deflection bonus, and the armor is just armor bonus?

Yes.
jokem
06-21-06, 04:37 PM Sure.

No, but the armor check penalties, spell failure chance, and other negative modifers will. Said armor check penmelaties should probably apply to all physical activites, including using weapons, as the wearer is unusually encounbered and his movements abnormally restricted.

Yes.

The only advantage I can think of would be if somehow the outer armor
were destroyed the inner armor might become the new armor bonus.
revnk
06-21-06, 08:01 PM If you take a closer look at how mail is actually worn, I think a common-sense reaction would reinforce what tierieanas, Conflagration, tharivol266 and Sulaco wrote. You might want to start here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainmail) for a general overview or consider the photograph here (http://www.armor-shop.com/pwa51b8.html).

Heavier forms of armor (e.g. plate) also implicitly include a chain layer beneath (i.e. you can't stack armor bonuses by wearing a chain shirt under full plate because a chain shirt is already a component of full plate). The chain shirt itself, if I'm not much mistaken, would in turn be worn over leather or padding that is also already factored into its AC.

Hope that helps.
Myrddin Wyllt
06-21-06, 09:07 PM Ignoring any potential "in the real world this doesn't work" arguments, from a purely mechanical DM point of view I would never allow two of the same kind of bonus to a single creature, unless the rules clearly allow them to stack (like dodge bonuses, for example).

I'm in the same camp as Sulaco, with adding the armor check penalties for wearing both types, but gaining nothing in armor bonus.

The highest type-x bonus always prevails when two different sources are present. If the character persists, let him wear them both, but NEVER give in on allowing both bonuses, and check his character sheet regularly to make sure he isn't cheating and adding them both in anyways, and make sure he's applying the TOTAL of the armor check penalties, which always stack.
Burgundy Lotus
06-21-06, 09:43 PM I wouldn't let both armour bonuses stack but I would grant an additioal +1 to whichever is better, in addition to all the penalties for both, but that's just me. By the RAW you get only one armours bonus and both armours penalties.
shadowfox628
06-22-06, 12:39 AM 1. Thought the PC technically could wear both sets of armor, it would really only have an effect in real life. In D&D, to make things less complicated and easier for everyone, only one type of bonus can apply. For example, Bracers of Armor don't stack with regular armor, since both provide an Armor Bonus to your AC. Also, I may be mistaken, but isn't Chainmail essentially a Chain Shirt but with more protection?

2. The Ring of Protection would stack, since, as you said, it provides a Deflection Bonus to AC (I'm honestly going by the info you told me... I recently learned of the "Wonderous Items" section in the DMG).
FeceMan
06-22-06, 12:43 AM unless the rules clearly allow them to stack (like dodge bonuses, for example).
Overpowered.
tsuyoshikentsu
06-22-06, 01:10 AM So, FeceMan, do you, like... ever make a useful contribution to a thread?

On the topic, considering how thistledown (Races of the Wild) works, it's generally assumed in D&D that you are in fact wearing layered armor. It follows that there would be no additional penalty -- it's already incorporated into the stats. Also, since no two bonuses of one type stack (except, of course, dodge bonuses) there would be no practical upside -- unless the player does exactly what yours is doing and enhances layers underneath.

However, it seems to me overall that because penalties from all your layers are combined under one armor heading, the entire layer system counts as one armor and therefore cannot be enhanced seperately.
Morka
06-22-06, 08:59 AM 1) I think that no. I've read somewhere, can't remember where, that an heavy armor was assumed to have inner leather padding, so you wouldn't have to buy a studded leather to wear under. It should be the same for any other combinaison of armor and lighter armor.
In addition, your body have a limited amount of magic item slots available. For example, you could wear two different magical rings on the same finger, but only one of them would be effective, the second one would be purely cosmetic.

2) You can add the Deflection bonus from a Ring of Protection to your total armor class. As long as you add a bonus to your armor class from a different source, everything stack. In addition, dodge bonuses coming from different sources stack together.
So you could have a +1 armor, a +1 shield, a +1 Ring of Protection, a +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, a bonus from your dexterity, a dodge bonus from the feats Dodge and Combat Expertise, and if you find a spell or item that provide one, an Inherent bonus, a Luck bonus, a Divine bonus, etc.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
maddog0714 06-21-06, 11:47 AM	Can a character wear a chain shirt (+2 chain shirt of fire resistance) under magical chainmail? and even if he could, would the AC bonus stack? Also would a ring of protection +5 stack with magic armor since the ring is deflection bonus, and the armor is just armor bonus? I would say no to the first question and yes to the second question Please advise, Thanks
tierieanas 06-21-06, 11:51 AM	you would be right.
supersod 06-21-06, 12:14 PM	Q1. you could get a blacksmith to incorperate a chain shirt into your chainmail cost : 25gp both abilities stack Q2.sorry can't help you
Conflagration 06-21-06, 12:15 PM	Your answers are correct. A character can only wear one magic item on any given body "slot". Only one ring on each hand, only one necklace, only one pair of boots ... and only one set of armor on the torso. As for the second part, as long as the bonuses granted are different they stack, so yeah it works.
tharivol266 06-21-06, 12:16 PM	he can wear it but it wont do anything except add armor check penalties (armor is made to fit right up against you so if you had another layer it would make things worse) and you're right about the ring
Sulaco 06-21-06, 03:00 PM	Can a character wear a chain shirt (+2 chain shirt of fire resistance) under magical chainmail? Sure. and even if he could, would the AC bonus stack? No, but the armor check penalties, spell failure chance, and other negative modifers will. Said armor check penmelaties should probably apply to all physical activites, including using weapons, as the wearer is unusually encounbered and his movements abnormally restricted. Also would a ring of protection +5 stack with magic armor since the ring is deflection bonus, and the armor is just armor bonus? Yes.
jokem 06-21-06, 04:37 PM	Sure. No, but the armor check penalties, spell failure chance, and other negative modifers will. Said armor check penmelaties should probably apply to all physical activites, including using weapons, as the wearer is unusually encounbered and his movements abnormally restricted. Yes. The only advantage I can think of would be if somehow the outer armor were destroyed the inner armor might become the new armor bonus.
revnk 06-21-06, 08:01 PM	If you take a closer look at how mail is actually worn, I think a common-sense reaction would reinforce what tierieanas, Conflagration, tharivol266 and Sulaco wrote. You might want to start here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainmail) for a general overview or consider the photograph here (http://www.armor-shop.com/pwa51b8.html). Heavier forms of armor (e.g. plate) also implicitly include a chain layer beneath (i.e. you can't stack armor bonuses by wearing a chain shirt under full plate because a chain shirt is already a component of full plate). The chain shirt itself, if I'm not much mistaken, would in turn be worn over leather or padding that is also already factored into its AC. Hope that helps.
Myrddin Wyllt 06-21-06, 09:07 PM	Ignoring any potential "in the real world this doesn't work" arguments, from a purely mechanical DM point of view I would never allow two of the same kind of bonus to a single creature, unless the rules clearly allow them to stack (like dodge bonuses, for example). I'm in the same camp as Sulaco, with adding the armor check penalties for wearing both types, but gaining nothing in armor bonus. The highest type-x bonus always prevails when two different sources are present. If the character persists, let him wear them both, but NEVER give in on allowing both bonuses, and check his character sheet regularly to make sure he isn't cheating and adding them both in anyways, and make sure he's applying the TOTAL of the armor check penalties, which always stack.
Burgundy Lotus 06-21-06, 09:43 PM	I wouldn't let both armour bonuses stack but I would grant an additioal +1 to whichever is better, in addition to all the penalties for both, but that's just me. By the RAW you get only one armours bonus and both armours penalties.
shadowfox628 06-22-06, 12:39 AM	1. Thought the PC technically could wear both sets of armor, it would really only have an effect in real life. In D&D, to make things less complicated and easier for everyone, only one type of bonus can apply. For example, Bracers of Armor don't stack with regular armor, since both provide an Armor Bonus to your AC. Also, I may be mistaken, but isn't Chainmail essentially a Chain Shirt but with more protection? 2. The Ring of Protection would stack, since, as you said, it provides a Deflection Bonus to AC (I'm honestly going by the info you told me... I recently learned of the "Wonderous Items" section in the DMG).
FeceMan 06-22-06, 12:43 AM	unless the rules clearly allow them to stack (like dodge bonuses, for example). Overpowered.
tsuyoshikentsu 06-22-06, 01:10 AM	So, FeceMan, do you, like... ever make a useful contribution to a thread? On the topic, considering how thistledown (Races of the Wild) works, it's generally assumed in D&D that you are in fact wearing layered armor. It follows that there would be no additional penalty -- it's already incorporated into the stats. Also, since no two bonuses of one type stack (except, of course, dodge bonuses) there would be no practical upside -- unless the player does exactly what yours is doing and enhances layers underneath. However, it seems to me overall that because penalties from all your layers are combined under one armor heading, the entire layer system counts as one armor and therefore cannot be enhanced seperately.
Morka 06-22-06, 08:59 AM	1) I think that no. I've read somewhere, can't remember where, that an heavy armor was assumed to have inner leather padding, so you wouldn't have to buy a studded leather to wear under. It should be the same for any other combinaison of armor and lighter armor. In addition, your body have a limited amount of magic item slots available. For example, you could wear two different magical rings on the same finger, but only one of them would be effective, the second one would be purely cosmetic. 2) You can add the Deflection bonus from a Ring of Protection to your total armor class. As long as you add a bonus to your armor class from a different source, everything stack. In addition, dodge bonuses coming from different sources stack together. So you could have a +1 armor, a +1 shield, a +1 Ring of Protection, a +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, a bonus from your dexterity, a dodge bonus from the feats Dodge and Combat Expertise, and if you find a spell or item that provide one, an Inherent bonus, a Luck bonus, a Divine bonus, etc.