Challenging BBEG - Gestalt [Archive] - Wizards Community

Challenging BBEG - Gestalt [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Epicweaver
01-09-06, 01:36 PM I've found that I'm having problems challenging my Gestalt party effectively.

They are a party of 4 consisting of:

elf druid/ranger (Complete Warrior non-casting variant Ranger)
-Relies on fighting from a range, using archery and pet for combat.
-Most of his magic is spent on long term benefictial spells on himself.

human fighter/ranger (Complete Warrior non-casting variant Ranger)
-Melee fighter, wields a two-bladed sword.
-Generally the guy who always charges in first.
-Highest average physical damage
-Highest HP

elf sorceror/rogue
-Favored tactic involves being invisible, casting fireball within 20 ft, and uses his very high Reflex and evasion to easily avoid the blast.
-Probably the most unbalanced/overpowered of the player characters.
-His AC is almost always the highest, between good Dexterity, arcane buffs, and a few magic items.. Frequently even CR can only hit him 40% of the time.
-Planning on tossing more "Grapple" opponents at some point.
-lowest HP

half-elf bard/cleric
-Generally plays the support role.
-Doesn't fully use all her options (probably because she has too many to choose from).
-Usually sings, buffs, heals, and turns undead.

I'm tentatively creating a Gestalt reoccuring-BBEG human (lich) hexblade/warlock who uses cohorts...

What types of monster/Gestalt combinations might give the party a serious challenge?
kliate
01-09-06, 01:51 PM I think this is a job for...Goblin Ninja Team!

Use the ninja class from complete adventurer, and build the goblins with a strong focus on stealth, initiative, mobility and poison.

Things of note:
-The goblins should never be clumped together, but an attempt at chasing after one for melee should force an opponent into fighting two or three more
-Use poisoned shuriken. It doesn't have to be high DC poison - if you hit enough times, someone will fail a save.
-Use poisoned shuriken with sudden strike. Ouch.
-The ninja should probably have some manner of simple trap or established terrain advantage. When it comes to pursuits, they should aim to lead their opponents into disadvantage.
-Don't overlook the usefulness of the feat "Stealthy".

Because these goblins aren't gestalt, they call for a CR reduction (I'd be in favor of a -2, since their poison and stealth tend to suffer significantly vs gestalt). So a goblin Ninja 3 would be treated as CR 1 against the Gestalt team. Four Goblin Ninja 3's would be an EL4 encounter for the party.

I've greatly enjoyed the Bard/Fighter class when it came to gestalting. This could make for a frightening Cohort.

Also, try Wizard/Rogue sometime. Focus on ranged touch spells. Scary!
Tolby
01-09-06, 01:57 PM A good gestalt is for the BBEG is Marshall/Ranger.

Cohorts could also be numerous if your comfortable with running 8-10 baddies at once. The Gerstalts have very limited number of actions. With 8-10 actions plus the marshall abilities you should be able to challenge them effectively

USe BBEG for ranged attacks and auras.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Epicweaver 01-09-06, 01:36 PM	I've found that I'm having problems challenging my Gestalt party effectively. They are a party of 4 consisting of: elf druid/ranger (Complete Warrior non-casting variant Ranger) -Relies on fighting from a range, using archery and pet for combat. -Most of his magic is spent on long term benefictial spells on himself. human fighter/ranger (Complete Warrior non-casting variant Ranger) -Melee fighter, wields a two-bladed sword. -Generally the guy who always charges in first. -Highest average physical damage -Highest HP elf sorceror/rogue -Favored tactic involves being invisible, casting fireball within 20 ft, and uses his very high Reflex and evasion to easily avoid the blast. -Probably the most unbalanced/overpowered of the player characters. -His AC is almost always the highest, between good Dexterity, arcane buffs, and a few magic items.. Frequently even CR can only hit him 40% of the time. -Planning on tossing more "Grapple" opponents at some point. -lowest HP half-elf bard/cleric -Generally plays the support role. -Doesn't fully use all her options (probably because she has too many to choose from). -Usually sings, buffs, heals, and turns undead. I'm tentatively creating a Gestalt reoccuring-BBEG human (lich) hexblade/warlock who uses cohorts... What types of monster/Gestalt combinations might give the party a serious challenge?
kliate 01-09-06, 01:51 PM	I think this is a job for...Goblin Ninja Team! Use the ninja class from complete adventurer, and build the goblins with a strong focus on stealth, initiative, mobility and poison. Things of note: -The goblins should never be clumped together, but an attempt at chasing after one for melee should force an opponent into fighting two or three more -Use poisoned shuriken. It doesn't have to be high DC poison - if you hit enough times, someone will fail a save. -Use poisoned shuriken with sudden strike. Ouch. -The ninja should probably have some manner of simple trap or established terrain advantage. When it comes to pursuits, they should aim to lead their opponents into disadvantage. -Don't overlook the usefulness of the feat "Stealthy". Because these goblins aren't gestalt, they call for a CR reduction (I'd be in favor of a -2, since their poison and stealth tend to suffer significantly vs gestalt). So a goblin Ninja 3 would be treated as CR 1 against the Gestalt team. Four Goblin Ninja 3's would be an EL4 encounter for the party. I've greatly enjoyed the Bard/Fighter class when it came to gestalting. This could make for a frightening Cohort. Also, try Wizard/Rogue sometime. Focus on ranged touch spells. Scary!
Tolby 01-09-06, 01:57 PM	A good gestalt is for the BBEG is Marshall/Ranger. Cohorts could also be numerous if your comfortable with running 8-10 baddies at once. The Gerstalts have very limited number of actions. With 8-10 actions plus the marshall abilities you should be able to challenge them effectively USe BBEG for ranged attacks and auras.