Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Merloth 01-16-07, 05:56 PM	Hello, guys. I need help to estimate whether an Npc is too challenging for the party or not. Ok, here's the party: -a Unfettered/Fighter/Dervish Dancer-lvl.14 alltogether -a Knight 7/Kensai 7 -a Cleric (good deity) 3/Sorcerer 4/Mystic Theurge 7 -a Rogue 5/Assassin 9 -a Scout 7/Order of the Bow Initiate 7 The Dervish Dancer has good saves, wild AC and rules melee, and the Knight Kensai (The Tank)is pretty much the same (except that he has poorer reflex and fortitude saves). The Mystic Theurge is the only spellcaster (but a very good one), the assassin is like every other assassin (mainly ranged), and the scout is ranged (little melee skill). Every character is optimized, and they work well together The NPC is, as I said, a cleric, with spells and domains from the core books only. He has Strength and War as domains, and is also lvl. 14. This guy is ultimately munchkinized. The Situation: The said cleric knows that the PC's are hunting, so he scries at them. Therefore he can plan the fight thouroughly, and can cast appropriate spells beforehand. As the PC's walk into the dungeon where the evil cleric is, he casts meld into stone, and let them pass. While inside the wall he casts spell resistance (he gets 26), Bull's Strength, Silence and Antilife Shell on himself. Then he follows after the PC's into a 30ft. by 30ft. dead-end room, and stands in the doorway. He then has a surprise round against all of those who failed Spot. His plan is to cast wind wall around the Antilife shell in the surprise round, and then cast Power Word Blind on the Mystic Theurge (He has 54 hp). If this succeeds, what are the PC's to do? To top it all, he can also cast dimensional anchor on the spellcaster afterwards. So, arrows and bolts don't work, melee doesn't work, spells can't target him, and they have no means to escape. Am I right? P.S. Please read my following post before entering a reply. This one has too many flaws.
Mogofeiden 01-16-07, 06:04 PM	You can only cast a silenced wind wall. If you engage in melee the antilife shell is of no use. If you don't the strength and war domain powers are wasted (and you can't use thrown weapons because of the wind wall). From the SRD Forcing an abjuration barrier against creatures that the spell keeps at bay collapses the barrier This is your casting sequence Bull's Strength Antilife Shell spell resistance standard action to lower your spell resistence Silence windwall Your only viable tactic with this setup is to use rays, close range spells and area spells (all silenced).
trapspringer 01-16-07, 06:16 PM	What if the party has detect magic running when they pass him in the wall? After I hit of an illusionary or material wall spell to slow him down, I'd try to wait out the 14 round duration of wind wall. He can get close enough to make physical attacks (and more importantly deliver touch attacks), so his damage options are reduced. The mystic theurge would need to get his sight back, something I imagine he can pull off with his divine magic. Once that happens, he plays band-aid until the wind wall falls and the uber-archer dude and the assassin kill the cleric via some sneak attack ranged garbage (which I hope they have a way to pull off, there are a whole bunch of 'em at level fourteen). Lack of healing. They are too dependent on the MT for their magic. That's the weakness.
Merloth 01-16-07, 06:47 PM	To clear things up: The NPC will not cast Silence, thus no silenced spells neccessary. The NPc will not walk into the room, but he will stand outside with the shell so that he covers the doorway. Thus, they cannot approach him. Windwall will be the first spell he casts in the combat. This means that all of the players might get a ranged shot on him first, but this will probably not drop him. The Mystic Theurge will now be able to cast one spell, so it is a very crucial spell. Can the players hear the cleric, when he's inside the wall? Furthermore, I know my players. They almost never cast detect magic. If they do, I'll congratulate them, and they'll have a much easier fight. As for the cleric's tactics, it is to stay invulnerable, and kill a few of the PC's (or hurt them badly) with a couple of Flame Strikes and Destruction and Blasphemy, and then go all out with his Divine Power, Righteous Might, the Strength Domain ability and Enlarge person. Please come with more feedback and find more flaws. Thanks so far...
Grand Theft Otto 01-16-07, 06:54 PM	Well, he'd need to dispel his own silence to cast PW Blind (and anything else, or have them all prepared w the silent metamagic feat). The blindness would be promptly cured the next round by the mystic theurge, who would then dispel the anti life shell. Party then smears the cleric in a round. Unless your MT is just terrible at picking his spells and has no wands. Also, as has been noted, its REALLY hard to move with an anti life shell on and keep it. ANY time you force it against some creature, it collapses. Given the number of vermin in dungeons, that would be near instantly. We just made it stationary to prevent this issue.
Merloth 01-16-07, 07:26 PM	He's not gonna move with it...
Cifer 01-16-07, 07:28 PM	As for the cleric's tactics, it is to stay invulnerable, and kill a few of the PC's (or hurt them badly) with a couple of Flame Strikes and Destruction and Blasphemy, and then go all out with his Divine Power, Righteous Might, the Strength Domain ability and Enlarge person. Drop the Blasphemy. What was the old comment about the spiked chain? It was implemented into the game to see which DMs would have the nerve to ban Core material. The myffic theurge might try an area dispel on the region the cleric stands in (if neccessary, he could receive directions by the rest of the party). Or he might try to dispel his own blindness. The NPc will not walk into the room, but he will stand outside with the shell so that he covers the doorway. Thus, they cannot approach him. Depends on the room layout, but I'd try moving into the corners of the room adjacent to the door. Spellcasters incapable of seeing you can't hurt you (well, not as badly)... Then ready an action to sprint into the barrier as soon as the cleric gets the idea to move a bit forward. Basically, time favors the PCs. The longer they can hold him off, the better the chances are their Theurge can recover and the wind wall drops.
Merloth 01-16-07, 07:46 PM	Thanks, cifer. I would also take cover in those corners if I were them. But they're still vulnerable to the flame strikes though. Area dispel with the directions from the party is also good. The Mystic Theurge may dispel the blindness, but it'll be hard though, andhe still has SR to deal with. But, provided the cleric's tactics are viable, would this be a challenge for the PC's? Who is most likely to win? P.S. I'll exchange the Blasphemy with another Destruction. And... This Cleric uses a +1 Wounding, Keen, Scythe(The deity's weapon)... Not Spiked Chain.
Matthew77 01-17-07, 09:44 AM	Suggestions for party tactics: Defensive tactic - Never have the entire party enter a dead end 30' square room at the same time. Keep half the party on watch in the hallway, while the other half searches the room for another exit. That'll keep the cleric from blocking the door, or at least make him stop where he can't see the entire room. Offensive tactic if they do get stuck - Anybody got a reach weapon? If not, tie grappling hooks on the end of ropes and keep swinging them at the Cleric. Eventually you'll snag his robes or a leg and can yank him forward. If you stand right at the edge of the anti-life field, it only takes one stumble for him to press the field against you and break it. Tactic 2 - Everyone readies an action to throw a dagger or rock at the Cleric when he casts a spell. Even with the 30% miss chance, you should be able to ruin enough spells to survive until the windwall duration ends.
Grand Theft Otto 01-17-07, 10:56 AM	He's not gonna move with it... From the description of casting anti life shell, moving to the doorway, casting windwall, etc, it sounds like he is.
Grand Theft Otto 01-17-07, 10:59 AM	Thanks, cifer. I would also take cover in those corners if I were them. But they're still vulnerable to the flame strikes though. Area dispel with the directions from the party is also good. The Mystic Theurge may dispel the blindness, but it'll be hard though, andhe still has SR to deal with. The SR wont help with the dispel, and presumably he took it as a sorcerer spell so he has tons of them. DC 25, d20+10, he passes on a 14 or better. 30% chance is decent odds of something going down each round. Its a tough fight, but I dont think its TPK material, so it should be fun.
trapspringer 01-17-07, 01:18 PM	Once either wind wall or antilife shell go down, this guy is gunna' get pasted. No doubt. I agree that this is a moderate threat, but not a TPK. A good fourth encounter.
Merloth 01-17-07, 05:56 PM	thanks everyone. And yes he's gonna move the shell, but just so that he doesn't push it onto them.