challenging my players [Archive] - Wizards Community

challenging my players [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tikael
02-26-07, 02:52 PM My players have become a little disengaged with combat and I would like to bring them back in with an interesting fight. I had some ideas but i was wondering if I could get some help finding the right spells/monsters etc.

14th level party (Monk, Barbarian, Fighter [TWF], abjurant champion [CM]) all a little on the high powered side.

The party has been away from home for some time and now will be heading back, i plan for them to be attacked by undead pirates while they are at sea.

My plan is for scouts (some kind of flying undead) to start dropping alchemists fire on the ships deck, then try to knock the party and crew overboard. I still need to find a good flying udead to use.

After a few rounds undead begin to climb the side of the ship, i was thinking 10 2HD zombie (fodder) 5 10HD zombies (more fodder) and a mohrg barbarian (dont know how many levels, maybe 6 levels making it CR 14 by itself)

A few rounds later the main ship comes and more fodder zombies and skeletons attempt to board while a ghoul ranger (need to figure out class levels once again) fires poisoned arrows at the crew and party.

The captain of the undead ship is a lich (need levels for an appropriate challenge, i was thinking CR12-13) who uses his spells to support his crew rather than directly fight. I have a couple tricks for him such as:
cast baleful transposition to bring his special troops (possibly drowned ones) to the deck of the boat while sending someone else into the water.
placing illusionary planks between the two boats so if the party decides to rush across they fall into the water.

The barbarian can deal out alot of damage and has heavy DR, the fighter is a little underpowered character wise but he has two weapons that deal plenty of damage (+3d6 enchantment on each, he still has a hard time dealing much damage as he didn't design the character very well), the monk is unpredictable and uses different tactics all the time, the player playing the abjurant champion is a powergamer.

Any ideas you can give me to balance this encounter and make it more interesting would be appreciated.
DarkNick
02-26-07, 03:05 PM Are they finding fights too easy, or just getting bored with battles?

If they are just getting bored then more meaningless combat is not going to help. The best way to make combat interesting is to make it have a point. Make it relate to the story in some way so that they are something the party needs to overcome to achieve their goals. Being attacked on the way home sounds a little pointless to me.

Turn this encounter into a mini adventure. Here is one idea. Perhaps one of the crew members is on the run from the undead pirates. He steals the ships compass, or theodolite, or the ships charts, and the long boat and heads for a nearby island. Subsquently he gets taken by the pirates. Now the players have a reason to fight. If they don't get the compass back they are not going home.... But first they need to figure out where the crew member went - search the island, piece together the clues... If the lich says "hahahaaa I have your compass" the players are going to be foaming at the mouth to get at this foe...

My advise is to make every combat count towards something - make them personal. Give players a reason to fight. Avoid too many random encounters (or get rid of them altogether).

:twocents:
GoriceXII
02-26-07, 03:17 PM I very much agree with that last post; combat to make an adventure truly interesting sometimes needs that element of at the very least atmosphere.

In my war campaign the encounters I've planned are all aimed at demonstrating something: that the land is war torn, that refugees, stragglers, raiders, bandits, holy madmen and monsters no longer inhibited by regular patrols are in the countryside.
FntsyWlkr
02-27-07, 03:06 PM Couple of different ideas:

1) how about change their characters through the combat a little bit (but not removing any benefit)? One of the characters get's hit with a chaotic arrow, that then turns his arms into tentacles with a 10ft reach and the trip feat. Another arrow hits a surrounding sailor and the sailor bloats until he bursts. (chaotic arrows) Someone is granted wings. Someone else is blinded but can breathe a cone of flame. All temporary.

2) how about manipulating the battlefield? Start certain sections of the ship catch on fire, then the fire is animated. Then certain portions of the sea are animated. Not elementals, but intelligent matter.

3) how about separating battles? Without making it burdensome. Have two players fighting on one deck, and another on another deck. But small decks and small battles. That way they have to deal with levels.

4) how about some weird spell where player's souls are switched!? Now the player that was playing the monk, has to switch with the barbarian.

5) symbiots. I don't know how ... but I always love 'em!

Some ideas.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tikael 02-26-07, 02:52 PM	My players have become a little disengaged with combat and I would like to bring them back in with an interesting fight. I had some ideas but i was wondering if I could get some help finding the right spells/monsters etc. 14th level party (Monk, Barbarian, Fighter [TWF], abjurant champion [CM]) all a little on the high powered side. The party has been away from home for some time and now will be heading back, i plan for them to be attacked by undead pirates while they are at sea. My plan is for scouts (some kind of flying undead) to start dropping alchemists fire on the ships deck, then try to knock the party and crew overboard. I still need to find a good flying udead to use. After a few rounds undead begin to climb the side of the ship, i was thinking 10 2HD zombie (fodder) 5 10HD zombies (more fodder) and a mohrg barbarian (dont know how many levels, maybe 6 levels making it CR 14 by itself) A few rounds later the main ship comes and more fodder zombies and skeletons attempt to board while a ghoul ranger (need to figure out class levels once again) fires poisoned arrows at the crew and party. The captain of the undead ship is a lich (need levels for an appropriate challenge, i was thinking CR12-13) who uses his spells to support his crew rather than directly fight. I have a couple tricks for him such as: cast baleful transposition to bring his special troops (possibly drowned ones) to the deck of the boat while sending someone else into the water. placing illusionary planks between the two boats so if the party decides to rush across they fall into the water. The barbarian can deal out alot of damage and has heavy DR, the fighter is a little underpowered character wise but he has two weapons that deal plenty of damage (+3d6 enchantment on each, he still has a hard time dealing much damage as he didn't design the character very well), the monk is unpredictable and uses different tactics all the time, the player playing the abjurant champion is a powergamer. Any ideas you can give me to balance this encounter and make it more interesting would be appreciated.
DarkNick 02-26-07, 03:05 PM	Are they finding fights too easy, or just getting bored with battles? If they are just getting bored then more meaningless combat is not going to help. The best way to make combat interesting is to make it have a point. Make it relate to the story in some way so that they are something the party needs to overcome to achieve their goals. Being attacked on the way home sounds a little pointless to me. Turn this encounter into a mini adventure. Here is one idea. Perhaps one of the crew members is on the run from the undead pirates. He steals the ships compass, or theodolite, or the ships charts, and the long boat and heads for a nearby island. Subsquently he gets taken by the pirates. Now the players have a reason to fight. If they don't get the compass back they are not going home.... But first they need to figure out where the crew member went - search the island, piece together the clues... If the lich says "hahahaaa I have your compass" the players are going to be foaming at the mouth to get at this foe... My advise is to make every combat count towards something - make them personal. Give players a reason to fight. Avoid too many random encounters (or get rid of them altogether). :twocents:
GoriceXII 02-26-07, 03:17 PM	I very much agree with that last post; combat to make an adventure truly interesting sometimes needs that element of at the very least atmosphere. In my war campaign the encounters I've planned are all aimed at demonstrating something: that the land is war torn, that refugees, stragglers, raiders, bandits, holy madmen and monsters no longer inhibited by regular patrols are in the countryside.
FntsyWlkr 02-27-07, 03:06 PM	Couple of different ideas: 1) how about change their characters through the combat a little bit (but not removing any benefit)? One of the characters get's hit with a chaotic arrow, that then turns his arms into tentacles with a 10ft reach and the trip feat. Another arrow hits a surrounding sailor and the sailor bloats until he bursts. (chaotic arrows) Someone is granted wings. Someone else is blinded but can breathe a cone of flame. All temporary. 2) how about manipulating the battlefield? Start certain sections of the ship catch on fire, then the fire is animated. Then certain portions of the sea are animated. Not elementals, but intelligent matter. 3) how about separating battles? Without making it burdensome. Have two players fighting on one deck, and another on another deck. But small decks and small battles. That way they have to deal with levels. 4) how about some weird spell where player's souls are switched!? Now the player that was playing the monk, has to switch with the barbarian. 5) symbiots. I don't know how ... but I always love 'em! Some ideas.