Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alynn 07-18-05, 02:43 PM	The PC's will be infiltrating an enemy base while archers and ground troops attack it keeping the attention off the party of five sneaking in... since they will be inside where the arrows will be landing, what chance do you think will they have if they are out in the open, of taking a random arrow... 5% per round out in the open? Just wanted some thoughts from the collective Hive Mind that is the DM boards.
Sinaz 07-18-05, 03:07 PM	That seems like a fine adjucation. On a D20 roll of 1, have the players make a REF check, DC10 (or whatever you feel is fair) or take an arrow.
celtredleg 07-18-05, 03:25 PM	For dramatic effect, you might have one person take an arrow the first round, just to let the others know it can happen. just 3-4 points, it will definately heighten the tension for the rest as you roll, and describe the arrow storm landing around them.
gorion 07-18-05, 04:27 PM	How many archers there are? I'll arbitrarly say that they need to make a reflex save DC 10+1 for each 10 enemy archers firing at them.
weasel fierce 07-18-05, 08:00 PM	1 in 20 sounds like a pretty good chance, and its quick to roll
Alynn 07-18-05, 08:05 PM	There will be 150 archers, but they aren't the enemies, they are the allies.
Sinaz 07-18-05, 08:05 PM	How many archers there are? I'll arbitrarly say that they need to make a reflex save DC 10+1 for each 10 enemy archers firing at them. They aren't being fired at persay... it is just that they are treading through an area being peppered with arrows. In the scenario described, I'd say that the archers may be deliberately aiming low to keep the arrows from flying over the wall (because they know they are just a distraction for the PCs to sneak into the fortification.) So, he may not want the arrows to be a challenge, but a random 'holy crap, watch for arrows' kind of thing.
Lord Ian Stark 07-18-05, 08:38 PM	Wow, you can tell who the kids are that have not been in the military (Or adults for that matter). What your looking for here is a timed shift in archer fire for the characters to move in to a certain area. Basically at a precise time that was pre-planned the archers will slowly shift there fire just enough to let in the allies. Then they slowly sweep back firing at the whole area. Seeing how only some of the 150 archers have to make a minor shift to a flank to let in a small squad this is quite easy and will be very hard to notice by enemy fire. Be sure to give the enemies a spot check. Keep in mind the negative for having to cover due to arrow volleys. The only roll the PC's would have to make here is to determine if they can sneak into said area at the precise time the archers are shifting there fire. Get it?
weasel fierce 07-18-05, 08:43 PM	Measuring time exactly is rather tricky, unless you have magic for that kind of thing. If the party can provide a signal of when to lift the fire, they'd be better off propably. Basically, WW1 style creeping barrage :)
Lord Ian Stark 07-18-05, 08:48 PM	Measuring time exactly is rather tricky, unless you have magic for that kind of thing. Well in the D&D world this is very possible. The spell that can send one telepathic message to someone would be ideal. Whether it's cast by a party member or a minor magical item that's used. Just send that message to the person Sargeant/Officer giving the archers commands. Viola. ;)
Sinaz 07-18-05, 09:10 PM	Wow, you can tell who the kids are that have not been in the military (Or adults for that matter). What your looking for here is a timed shift in archer fire for the characters to move in to a certain area. Basically at a precise time that was pre-planned the archers will slowly shift there fire just enough to let in the allies. Then they slowly sweep back firing at the whole area. Seeing how only some of the 150 archers have to make a minor shift to a flank to let in a small squad this is quite easy and will be very hard to notice by enemy fire. Be sure to give the enemies a spot check. Keep in mind the negative for having to cover due to arrow volleys. The only roll the PC's would have to make here is to determine if they can sneak into said area at the precise time the archers are shifting there fire. Get it? (Ahem)I happen to be in the military, and I know what you're talking about... but even if the DM here accounted for that, he may still need a ruling in case a PC wanders off into an area being peppered (for instance, if he needs to recover an object that has fallen out into the open.) Unfortunately, the players in DnD don't have SINGARS to request for a cease or shift in fire.
Sinaz 07-18-05, 09:12 PM	Well in the D&D world this is very possible. The spell that can send one telepathic message to someone would be ideal. Whether it's cast by a party member or a minor magical item that's used. Just send that message to the person Sargeant/Officer giving the archers commands. Viola. ;) Clever, I was thinking this just as I hit send on my last post.
Alynn 07-18-05, 10:51 PM	Oh lord.. I AM in the military... SGT United States Army... I play with a navy retiree, and an Army Captain, another that did her time in the military, and my wife, who only knows what I've talked to her about... But that is us, they, as in the town, don't have such military luxury, let me give you a slight overview of the world... There hasn't been a war in over 185 years... There are no sergeants, there is no mighty war leader here. All we have are about 150 hunters willing to give their lives to take back what is theirs (not to mention the 150 gnolls willing to do the same, mostly to eat goblin). The town itself is low magic, they have little need for it, the higest level wiz is level 3, One level 1 sorc, and a level 3 cleric and his two disciples.... they have no minor magic items to communicate shift fire (however a flare spell by the party wiz off in the air could work to communicate thus). This isn't my issue, if the PC's think of it, and instruct the archers to do so, then that is what will happen. I'm looking at this as if that doesn't happen, and they just run in. They have (from the hole in the wall) 60 feet of open ground to cover to the main building they will have 60 feet of open ground to cover to the main building. And there are other buildings anywhere from 10 to 140 feet apart.
Lord Ian Stark 07-18-05, 11:59 PM	Now see Alynn how enough info in the original topic can help weed out posts that are unsupportive of your needs. :P So there's a 150 "hunters" firing into a walled city and the PC's are rushing from building to building. OK. Well lets see... It takes PC's less than one round to run 60 feet. So lets just use it in increments of one round, shall we? I'll assume the "hunters" don't have a BAB of 6 or have the rapid shot feat in my equation. If they have the feat or have BAB of 6 or higher please make the necessary adjustments. So in one round 150 arrows will be shot into the town. How big is the town? Divide town area by 150. Then whatever percentage the PC's are moving without cover in the city is the amount of arrows that could possibly hit them. Then divide the amount of possible arrows by 5 (amount of party members) and then do a 50/50 on whether each character gets hit or not by an arrow that could possibly hit them. Sound good?
celtredleg 07-19-05, 12:14 AM	I am not just military, But, Field artillery fire direction. As hard as indirect fire is to control with everybody having a radio, attempting to control something as erratic as indirect bowfire would be a nightmare. But, this is DND, and so it should work just fine. Those poor archers might need an ammo resupply somewhere in there as the number of round of fire might get to be longer than the players are planning on. Are the players in charge of the whole op, or just thier own little piece?? With the people you have in the game, I would definately get them if they arent watching ammo expenditure vs rounds carried.
Alynn 07-19-05, 12:19 AM	Now see Alynn how enough info in the original topic can help weed out posts that are unsupportive of your needs. :P So there's a 150 "hunters" firing into a walled city and the PC's are rushing from building to building. OK. Well lets see... It takes PC's less than one round to run 60 feet. So lets just use it in increments of one round, shall we? I'll assume the "hunters" don't have a BAB of 6 or have the rapid shot feat in my equation. If they have the feat or have BAB of 6 or higher please make the necessary adjustments. So in one round 150 arrows will be shot into the town. How big is the town? Divide town area by 150. Then whatever percentage the PC's are moving without cover in the city is the amount of arrows that could possibly hit them. Then divide the amount of possible arrows by 5 (amount of party members) and then do a 50/50 on whether each character gets hit or not by an arrow that could possibly hit them. Sound good? So yeah.... back to that 5% chance.... :P True it won't be likely, as the place is 260 from west to east and 220 from north to south (there abouts, as the mountain it is butted against isn't exactly straight). I just wanted some kinda mechanic that could easily be decided with a die roll or two... Damn Palidins alway making things more complicated than they need be.
Lord Ian Stark 07-19-05, 02:19 AM	So yeah.... back to that 5% chance.... Damn Palidins alway making things more complicated than they need be. :heehee
Alynn 07-19-05, 01:23 PM	Seriously though, the only reason this went from a night infultration dungeon, it went to a grand scale battle, because the danged palidin talked the leader of the town, and the LN gnolls who both depend on the fields for food (which the goblins have overhunted to the point that the gnolls will starve, and the human town won't have enough meat and leather to support themselves) to strike an alliance to destroy the common enemy. The gnolls have been approaching the town on their own, but because of the general gnoll populous being, unruly, were attacked on sight. The random encounter gave em a gnoll party, who were hunting, IE no attacking PC's on sight, and my danged PC's never attack unless attacked first. I guess the figured out that monster races aren't always inherently bad in my world... Damn advanced players.... So yeah the whole reason I'm in this mess with a full scale battle, is because a palidin bridged the gap between two races, and convinced them to kill goblins (by asking the gnolls if they would mind eating goblin, and they wouldn't, and convincing the town that the hunting will only get worse if they do nothing). So yeah... it's all the Palidins fault...